OT: Why did Mets trade Nolan Ryan ?
- Thread starter RU-Choppin-Ohio
- Start date
Here's my take.
Ryan was coming off a season where he was 10-14 with an ERA of close to 4 as their fourth starter with the others being Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman. Gary Gentry and a young Jon Matlack on the horizon. I'm guessing that they felt that they had enough pitching.
People laugh at Jim Fregosi but the guy was a high qulaity player. At the time he was a 6 time AS and was only 30 years old. Obviously that didn't work out. @zappaa would probably be better able to explain but I just gave you a fan's version.
My question is:Why this post on the eve of a bowl game???
Ryan was coming off a season where he was 10-14 with an ERA of close to 4 as their fourth starter with the others being Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman. Gary Gentry and a young Jon Matlack on the horizon. I'm guessing that they felt that they had enough pitching.
People laugh at Jim Fregosi but the guy was a high qulaity player. At the time he was a 6 time AS and was only 30 years old. Obviously that didn't work out. @zappaa would probably be better able to explain but I just gave you a fan's version.
My question is:Why this post on the eve of a bowl game???
I don't normally post on this board. .But, scan down and see the number of OT threads on this "Football Board". You are mistaken if you this is a football discussion board.Here's my take.
Ryan was coming off a season where he was 10-14 with an ERA of close to 4 as their fourth starter with the others being Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman. Gary Gentry and a young Jon Matlack on the horizon. I'm guessing that they felt that they had enough pitching.
People laugh at Jim Fregosi but the guy was a high qulaity player. At the time he was a 6 time AS and was only 30 years old. Obviously that didn't work out. @zappaa would probably be better able to explain but I just gave you a fan's version.
My question is:Why this post on the eve of a bowl game???
No criticism. I post a lot of O.T. stuff.
p.s. I saw Ryan pitch in person several times and he was incredible.
I remember running across a video someplace that prior to an Astros playoff game he threw a first pitch that was clocked at 86 miles per hour........at age 63!!
I highly recommend the documentary “Facing Nolan” just a great story on the man and his life Seems like a great guy and still married to his wife he started dating when they were like 16 years old
I still have my Ryan/Koosman Topps rookie card. I should get it graded someday- lol
I do know that early in his career Ryan had a big problem with control. It was not unusual for him to strike out a high number and also walk a high number of batters in the same game. That may have been a big factor in why the Mets traded him.
Nolan and Seaver were two of my favorites as a kid. I was taught to how to pitch using my legs the same way those guys did.
I played a round of golf with a former MLB player, 9 year career, and talked a little about his playing days and I asked him if he ever faced those two. Never faced Seaver, but faced Nolan several times. He surprised me when he said that Nolan was a notorious "scuffer". Said it was weird too since the guy had no reason to do it, he was scary enough to face.
And "Facing Nolan" was tremendous. Well worth the watch. Even my wife enjoyed it.
I played a round of golf with a former MLB player, 9 year career, and talked a little about his playing days and I asked him if he ever faced those two. Never faced Seaver, but faced Nolan several times. He surprised me when he said that Nolan was a notorious "scuffer". Said it was weird too since the guy had no reason to do it, he was scary enough to face.
And "Facing Nolan" was tremendous. Well worth the watch. Even my wife enjoyed it.
In the same off-season the Cardinals traded Steve Carlton to the Phillies for Rick Wise. That was worse.
Funny that you mention Wise. One of the times I saw Ryan pitch was in 1980 against the Padres. The Padres starter that night was Rick Wise.
1986 NLCS says hello. Mets knew Scott and Ryan were scuffing balls.
This was my take, he was wild high a lot
My theory was that the American League had a slightly higher strike zone and some of his pitches there would be strikes and not in the national
Here's my take.
Ryan was coming off a season where he was 10-14 with an ERA of close to 4 as their fourth starter with the others being Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman. Gary Gentry and a young Jon Matlack on the horizon. I'm guessing that they felt that they had enough pitching.
People laugh at Jim Fregosi but the guy was a high qulaity player. At the time he was a 6 time AS and was only 30 years old. Obviously that didn't work out. @zappaa would probably be better able to explain but I just gave you a fan's version.
My question is:Why this post on the eve of a bowl game???
A lot of the questioning boils down to Ryan far exceeded the expectations for him and Fregosi underperformed. Funny how both Ryan and Sandy Koufax underperformed early in their careers and turned into all time greats because their control improved.
Mike Scott got way the heck better after leaving
He mastered a coup!e of new pitches and be and almost unhittable, at least against the Mets
Many people attributed that to the AL using the big balloon outer chest protector at the time so they couldn't get as low as the NL umpires.
Nolan was given notice in spring training you’re in the rotation.
The reward comes with, I don’t care if you lose 10 straight… you’re out there!
Gil and Rube gave Nolan the ball and watched him walk the ball park and battle blisters (Nolan spent his non pitching days with his fingers soaking in pickle juice)
Matlack, McAndrew and Buzz Capra were highly thought of.
Mike Scott taught Ryan how to scuff the ball without getting caught, how to hold it and control it….the pitch was absolutely unhittable.
The reward comes with, I don’t care if you lose 10 straight… you’re out there!
Gil and Rube gave Nolan the ball and watched him walk the ball park and battle blisters (Nolan spent his non pitching days with his fingers soaking in pickle juice)
Matlack, McAndrew and Buzz Capra were highly thought of.
Mike Scott taught Ryan how to scuff the ball without getting caught, how to hold it and control it….the pitch was absolutely unhittable.
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I am sure that as great as that CB was- the fact that he was also so wild- made it almost impossible to stay in the box if you were a righthand hitter.
Interesting to see that you actually batted .294 against him- only K'd you 3 times in 17 ABs...
lol, grew up with Nolan in the Met clubhouse, he took it easy on me.
He’d get behind in the count on me with his curve ball and I could hit a fastball.
He almost killed me once, don’t know how I got out of the way of a 101 mph fastball directly at my neck, he ended up walking me, on my way to first he walked toward me and said… thank god that missed you Dale, I thought that was going to drill you.
Nolan was comfortably wild and straight over the top, he didn’t hit many hitters up and in.
Exactly like Doc…
Nolan was mean though, Don’t ever bunt on him if you were 3 or 4 runs up, he’d straight up tell you were getting one in the ribs next AB, be ready.
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Watched the whole thing - some of those pitches were downright filthy. I used to be a big Astros fan when they were in the NL - cheered for Nolan back then. The Astros could put together one helluva pitching staff, but they just couldn't score runs.
Always love to hear these things from you. And funny you mention Doc- as I am watching those CB's by Nolan in the video- the pitcher who came to mind that had both an unhittable high fastball and a nasty as F curve- was Doc...only deference- Doc had more control- so it most likely made Nolan's even harder to hit. You were with the Yankees when Doc first came up but came back to the NL for a bit in 87- did you get a chance to bat against Doc?
Faced Doc a full year in 1984… including spring training games.
This is reminding me of another pitcher, definitely not HOF material, who was tough to stay in the box for. Circa 1960 the Yanks had Ryne Duran, with a FB at 100 and mediocre control. He also had terrible vision and wore essentially coke bottle glasses. I used to chuckle as a kid watching him squint at the plate getting ready to release the heat. No digging against this guy. Later, as an adult, I found out he also had a drinking problem, which would have given the hitter another reason to be concerned. IIRC, he went to the Angels in the expansion draft.
And with a young Doc- who would you compare him too? And did he maybe have the most talent ever to go to waste? Even at 19- the kid just seemed he could have actually been in the convo for top 5 ever
Can’t remember facing anyone with such an effortless delivery where the ball exploded in the strike zone in the fashion it did, coupled with a paralyzing curve ball.
So the answer is he wasn’t like anyone I’d ever faced.
I have a pile of Mets cards from 1968-1975 including 1968 Ryan but not in great condition
This. Control issues early in his career. He was no where’s near as polished with the Mets as he would later become. Also Nancy didn’t like attention/admiration being siphoned from Tom.