If you bring in someone schooled in modern training and coaching like Askren or Nolf or Rutherford, there will be plenty of buzz and no one will leave.
Our program
- Thread starter WEH8ST8HAWK
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You guys sure are something else. They win running away wrestling multiple backups and you would think the sky is falling. The ONLY concern I have coming away from that dual is Ayala. Even then, his track record in March is too damn good to give up on him now.
it’s amazing how everyone forgets that Iowa actually wrestled very well in March last year. Injuries are the only thing that set them back. Teemer was a massive downer and Parco was in a GREAT spot til his knee popped.
Hopefully the “training cycle” that keep getting mentioned is truly an adaptation meant to get them to March. If they wrestle their best there, I could give 2 sh*ts what fans were complaining about in a 23-12 WIN over Wisconsin….
Now, if many guys still look gassed in March and truly underperform , you will find me being much more acquiescent with you guys moving forward. Til then, you guys are spinning your wheels…
it’s amazing how everyone forgets that Iowa actually wrestled very well in March last year. Injuries are the only thing that set them back. Teemer was a massive downer and Parco was in a GREAT spot til his knee popped.
Hopefully the “training cycle” that keep getting mentioned is truly an adaptation meant to get them to March. If they wrestle their best there, I could give 2 sh*ts what fans were complaining about in a 23-12 WIN over Wisconsin….
Now, if many guys still look gassed in March and truly underperform , you will find me being much more acquiescent with you guys moving forward. Til then, you guys are spinning your wheels…
I believe he has his phd in phych, was a hell of a wrestler and obviously is the one developing snd recruiting. My son was recruited by him back in 14/15. Loved his persona. Class sct. Obviously loyal to a fault.
That blowing out is coming Friday.
Ah Tarp, it makes me SO sad that you are SO right. I spent years giving these guys a break, and now we're rewarded with performances like these?
However, let's give the guys who donate serious money to the program a little break. They wouldn't do this if they didn't care. There's lots of worse ways these days to throw money around. We just need leadership that knows how to get better results from it.
We all knew this.
I hope that you are right, but I feel strongly that you are not. I was TnT loyal for years, but I think that you're being way too patient with them at this point.
It’s just funny to me that everyone glosses over how good they have been in duals and only use March against them. Now, they seem to have gone away from focusing on duals and many are now using that against them.
Let’s just be consistent. March is all that matters. If they fall flat there, you guys can have your blood bath and I won’t argue against it…
Agree on all the points about the amazing tailwinds this program has.
-Largest long term fan base.
-Celebrity status of wrestlers.
-Wrestletown USA Culture
-Best Women’s program
-UFC partnership
-Maybe not the richest donor, but better than most and very willing.
-I have to think in Tom’s tenure the largest donor pool by count - if not it should be.
-ease of mass social media following for athletes.
-$xx million spent on what was intended to be the best wrestling facility in the world (not just mats, but results to come in S&C, rehab, alternative medicine benefits, nutrition)
If I were part of the program these would be on a board with a question about how have we leveraged these in every way possible and if we have why not, and how does that change now.
The amazing advantages we have over everyone else during Tom’s tenure were not exploited & utilized, either at all or to their fullest potential, and you can see them all fading away. Think of the 15 year period and where the other programs were during that period and the reality today. No one had/has what Iowa did but they do now. Ironically, for many reasons, the playing field has been leveled regarding many of the advantages OUR program had, not the other way around.
OSU has the $ guy but ALSO he is humble and innovative. He came to TNT to get consulting on the National Duals. We wouldn’t do that - we probably spent more time, resources, energy, and obsession on the Soldier Salute to date and we came up with a Holiday tournament meat grinder (what amazing forward thinking!).
Honestly, a strong business acumen person could look at the resources, tail winds, and supplemental support this program has and create
some planning to take advantage of it all.
not only are TnT not forward thinking they now seem to be taking the fan base for granted, angry at the chatter and ‘haters’ so much he says crap like “frankly, none of your business “ to reporters and short notice shafting a home tourney he should acknowledge and know the loyal fans make decisions to go to months prior. The reporters are an extension of the fans, his intention in saying that wasn’t malicious clearly, but it is a symptom of a leader in a crucial position not understanding messaging, strategic positioning when given a forum to speak , and tact.
the saddest part may be. The high school class wrapping up now or in true frosh (Bassett, Jax, Duke, MMiller, Blaze, James, etc.) was unprecedented and we got none of it. The 27-28 classes look promising for us but they aren’t tech pinning competition like it was drilling like these guys did.
-Largest long term fan base.
-Celebrity status of wrestlers.
-Wrestletown USA Culture
-Best Women’s program
-UFC partnership
-Maybe not the richest donor, but better than most and very willing.
-I have to think in Tom’s tenure the largest donor pool by count - if not it should be.
-ease of mass social media following for athletes.
-$xx million spent on what was intended to be the best wrestling facility in the world (not just mats, but results to come in S&C, rehab, alternative medicine benefits, nutrition)
If I were part of the program these would be on a board with a question about how have we leveraged these in every way possible and if we have why not, and how does that change now.
The amazing advantages we have over everyone else during Tom’s tenure were not exploited & utilized, either at all or to their fullest potential, and you can see them all fading away. Think of the 15 year period and where the other programs were during that period and the reality today. No one had/has what Iowa did but they do now. Ironically, for many reasons, the playing field has been leveled regarding many of the advantages OUR program had, not the other way around.
OSU has the $ guy but ALSO he is humble and innovative. He came to TNT to get consulting on the National Duals. We wouldn’t do that - we probably spent more time, resources, energy, and obsession on the Soldier Salute to date and we came up with a Holiday tournament meat grinder (what amazing forward thinking!).
Honestly, a strong business acumen person could look at the resources, tail winds, and supplemental support this program has and create
some planning to take advantage of it all.
not only are TnT not forward thinking they now seem to be taking the fan base for granted, angry at the chatter and ‘haters’ so much he says crap like “frankly, none of your business “ to reporters and short notice shafting a home tourney he should acknowledge and know the loyal fans make decisions to go to months prior. The reporters are an extension of the fans, his intention in saying that wasn’t malicious clearly, but it is a symptom of a leader in a crucial position not understanding messaging, strategic positioning when given a forum to speak , and tact.
the saddest part may be. The high school class wrapping up now or in true frosh (Bassett, Jax, Duke, MMiller, Blaze, James, etc.) was unprecedented and we got none of it. The 27-28 classes look promising for us but they aren’t tech pinning competition like it was drilling like these guys did.
I'm guessing you're right. I know of two legendary wrestler coaches that I've seen in my lifetime. That is Dan Gable and Cale Sanderson. You don't re-create them too often and both in their own way have changed the game.
Dan was that legend when we still had the Cold War thing going on in Sanderson has a more I'll say modern approach. Things have changed from Dan's days 54 years ago when he won the gold.
I can't think of a current wrestler or coach who is the next Gable or Sanderson but there might be some division two or division the legend that could flat out coach. And of course need backing of resources and the money to run a program successfully but it's not a bad idea.
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Just the data. Brands vs. Zalesky:
Avg NCAA points:
TB = 90.0
JZ = 91.3
Avg NCAA placement:
TB = 3.2
JZ = 3.3
Avg NCAA champs per season:
TB = 0.8
JZ = 1.1
NCAA Points & placement last 3 seasons (i.e., JZ was fired for this performance):
TB = 82.5-67-81 (2nd, 5th, 4th)
JZ = 82-66-70 (2nd, 7th, 4th)
Total NCAA titles:
TB = 4 in 18 seasons
JZ = 3 in 9 seasons
# of seasons with 100+ points:
TB = 4 in 18 seasons
JZ = 4 in 9 seasons
Avg NCAA points:
TB = 90.0
JZ = 91.3
Avg NCAA placement:
TB = 3.2
JZ = 3.3
Avg NCAA champs per season:
TB = 0.8
JZ = 1.1
NCAA Points & placement last 3 seasons (i.e., JZ was fired for this performance):
TB = 82.5-67-81 (2nd, 5th, 4th)
JZ = 82-66-70 (2nd, 7th, 4th)
Total NCAA titles:
TB = 4 in 18 seasons
JZ = 3 in 9 seasons
# of seasons with 100+ points:
TB = 4 in 18 seasons
JZ = 4 in 9 seasons
Whether or not anyone realizes it or doesn't want to admit it not, everyone wants a Dan Gable type back and that kind of performance from a coach.
And no matter what changes are made that might never happen again. Dan Gable's coattails lasted for another half a generation, approximately 12 years until another coach rose to performance .
That's 37 years and it's a long time and people are used to that.
It feels like we watched a different dual. We won 6 matches to 4 against a TERRIBLE program. It was a sliver from being 4 matches to 6. I have been very patient over the years but last night sent me.
What if. What if. What if March is not going to be a peak, what if Brands are grinding on the guys now for peaking (that seems reasonable right, likely is probably a better word).
That means we all are getting a head start on you MSU. Just stop criticizing us for it, you will be here with us in 3 short months. You are using stats and plausible deniability like something must be proven in court to deny what your eyes and heart see. Starters look rough, back ups no good, no one improving, not much depth, not much in the recruiting hoppers for a long time and outside of one guy the likeliest of AAs (not champs mind you) are graduating this year.
Holy **** thats certainly eye opening and disputes some of the fanatical TB *** lickers!
Drake’s performance concerns me. Does anyone have a list of good Iowa wrestlers that sh.. the bed their senior years? I’m afraid the list is long.
Ludington was a disappointment, Keuter’s activity was atrocious, why no Peterson against Rivera?, Ayala loss was brutal, Block was disappointing, having to rely on Petersen at 141 is sad, Jordan Williams was uninspiring and even PK riding out the third instead of going for the tech is dumbfounding.
in the interest of being consistent, how far of a fall will be considered "falling flat"?
Never met Snyder but Mac Crossen and his family love him. And they are good people so whatever that's worth. I'd interview him and hear his ideas.
Well, this is the most toxic this board has been on the new site. Shows how little people in the wrestling scene respect Bono and Wisconsin.
I’m with TnT until something changes with the recruiting classes. You look down the line and you can put a whole lineup together with all top 10 p4p recruits. If people leave then yeah, it’s time for them to go.
I’m with TnT until something changes with the recruiting classes. You look down the line and you can put a whole lineup together with all top 10 p4p recruits. If people leave then yeah, it’s time for them to go.
Fair comments shared by many in recent years and growing. I don’t think it’s as bad as some are portraying but the standard is what it is. Gable set it. TNT lived it and are legends. However the sport has evolved and their coaching methods are not as effective anymore. Not sure they’re capable of making the changes needed that undoubtedly includes bringing in younger assistants with a fresh perspective. And if they are, seems doubtful the interest would be reciprocated assisting under Brands. Nolf is the perfect example. Super creative, fun style with a similar aggressiveness to Brands but different philosophy. He almost came to Iowa as a competitor but Sandersons ways resonated more. Nolf makes the most sense to bring here but seems doubtful he would. Hard to imagine his ways will coexist with Brands.
Hawks have some huge duals coming up and the next several weeks might put an end to Brands at the helm. I’m rooting like hell for them but we can’t let the program drift like osu did under Smith.
This is eye opening
I don’t believe you! You will always argue just for the sake of arguing!!
All I know is thank God we didn't wrestle our starters at soldier salute... imagine how flat we'd have been if we had (insert eye roll here)...
To those worried about losing recruits in the 27/28 classes, that's going to happen regardless if things don't change.
To those worried about losing recruits in the 27/28 classes, that's going to happen regardless if things don't change.
Brands can't DEVELOP them is what people are saying. I'm psu fan and i feel bad for iowa fans right now that was crap last night no matter who you root for. I've watched Iowa for years now there has been so much incredible talent and one guy gets multiple individual championships. Brands is afraid to lose as are his wrestlers and it shows. You need a change for sure. There is nothing Branda has shown that it will get better. New recruits will being the same results they aren't allowed to wrestle their style it has to be a iowa brands style which gets you the same old ******** just saying
I believe you're right. It's not like there hasn't been a certain amount of data to draw a conclusion.
Blood bath is one term to use. I would use the term progressive, exciting, positive, future looking.
I think the most frustrating part of all is how matches look. The amount of 1-1 scores going into the 3rd period over the past 3-4 years is terrible.
my assumption is there’s a general lack of confidence from our wrestlers in finishing shots quickly, and when they don’t, results in getting into scrambles. so they try and wait for the perfect opportunity, or hope the opposition takes a bad shot to capitalize on.
It’s a tough way to try and win matches against game opponents
my assumption is there’s a general lack of confidence from our wrestlers in finishing shots quickly, and when they don’t, results in getting into scrambles. so they try and wait for the perfect opportunity, or hope the opposition takes a bad shot to capitalize on.
It’s a tough way to try and win matches against game opponents
The greatest Hawkeye wrestling coach was a Cyclone.
“Horrible,” might be a little over the top.
A bigger problem for Ayala is that there is a flood of world class talent coming into the weight this year (or coming back in if/when Crookham comes back). Byrd is still there plus Blaze, Davino, Crookham, Larkin, and now possibly Jax. Plus guys like Frost & Fugitt who have wins over Ayala this year. It’s a brutal weight class, and probably the one I’m looking most forward to this season.
We don't have a choice. The current staff does not offer an options.
The only ex-Hawks that are coaching would be Metcalf, Kem or a guy with club experience (McD or Marinelli). Do any of them move the needle? Unless Lee wants to coach we don't have much in the ex-Hawk coaching pool.
So we have to go outside the program and find a charismatic coach with a modern training program.
Unfortunately Iowa wrestling is reaching the level of total rebuild or irrelevance.
Man…. Everyone needs to chill out. Wait till March to have these conversations.
I get the frustration but wait to grab the pitchforks after the performance in March. Hoping we can bounce back, specifically Drake and Ryder. We are barely in the middle of the season, just wait.
I get the frustration but wait to grab the pitchforks after the performance in March. Hoping we can bounce back, specifically Drake and Ryder. We are barely in the middle of the season, just wait.
This. Looking back the 125 & 133 class he made the finals was not very strong weight classes. Imo I dont see Drake getting past the qrtrs this season given how he will likely be seeded. I'd also bet Bird wont be in the finals
Actually, the lack of a reasonable succession plan is my biggest beef with the current coaching staff. Other than Terry, there is not one that could step in now as head coach or I think ultimately has the potential to be a head coach down the road. That is on Tom. Maybe the next guy is Spencer, but I have never heard it articulated by Tom or Spencer that he wants to coach the Hawkeyes one day. It is almost like Tom has chased off every reasonable young candidate for the job.
Bring Taylor and Chad richardson. Doesn't matter who the next coach is if he doesn't have 100 million with him to burn.
That BS to an extent. Tell that to Indiana football right now that has the tenth of the money Alabama or Michigan does. . Get the right coach and the kids and donors will flock to a true blueblood. Iowa wresting is not a tough rebuild. Find the wrestling Curt Cignati that isn't the sexy name but knows how to coach. The product will take care of the machine then
Im ready for tom to be done. I’m just saying that doesn’t fix anything
. We need another money guy also. Not sure how that came across as apologizing for Tim.No to Lee, Metcalf, Schwab, or really anyone that was coached by brands. We desperately need someone that was not influenced by 30 year old training, recovery and nutrition techniques and is open to new ideas and is creative and adaptable in every facet of the game. Bonus points if they can foster relationships with wealthy donors.
When the opening does eventually happen, a lot of influential and quality names will be interested. Despite what the gatekeepers will lie about, Taylor would have accepted head coach at Iowa prior to the billionaire getting on board.