Pass 1st offense?

HuskerLegion

Freshman
Jan 31, 2011
562
97
0
I just want to get some opinions on a couple of things. I haven't payed a lot of attention to teams that pass first so I really don't know what to expect when MR gets the players he is looking for. Not much for NFL either.
1. Is this really what MR is trying to do? Or is that just the assumption?
2. Can an offense still be physically dominant with more focus on the pass?
3. How does everyone expect it to play out?
 

huskerssalts

All-Conference
Oct 6, 2014
7,213
1,221
0
I never understood this, we are not a pass first offense. They want a balanced offense. Thats there goals. But if our line play is as bad as it has been and our runs are not there, im perfectly fine if they pass to move the chains. Like Shawn Callahan said on his write this morning, "whats Langs to do, just keep smashing into a brick wall all day and get no where ". We have to face it guys, we do not have a dominate oline. There will be times where we have to TRY and soften the defenses up threw the air.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GBR_Atlanta

HuskerLegion

Freshman
Jan 31, 2011
562
97
0
I would like to be great at both running and passing. I've just always been under the impression that you need to have a bread and butter you know something to hang your hat on. Seems like they need to do something with the O line before we will see much improvement regardless of what the run/pass ratio is.
 

barney44

All-American
Oct 2, 2005
185,597
5,325
0
There are offenses that favor the pass, there are offenses that favor the run, both can be balanced offenses. You don't throw it on 3rd and short over and over again if your focus is to always get a ground game going. They would abandon the run because it's not working, would they abandon the pass if it's not working? I have my doubts that they would. Sometimes yards come tough and the good thing about a strong ground game, not necessarily one that is going to produce at all times is a benefit to your chances IMO. When you're able to punish the opposing defense with a ground game then late in that game there is a good chance that things will open up for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GammaxuvirHusker

HuskerLegion

Freshman
Jan 31, 2011
562
97
0
There are offenses that favor the pass, there are offenses that favor the run, both can be balanced offenses. You don't throw it on 3rd and short over and over again if your focus is to always get a ground game going. They would abandon the run because it's not working, would they abandon the pass if it's not working? I have my doubts that they would. Sometimes yards come tough and the good thing about a strong ground game, not necessarily one that is going to produce at all times is a benefit to your chances IMO. When you're able to punish the opposing defense with a ground game then late in that game there is a good chance that things will open up for you.
I agree. I would like to see them get the ground game going so they can lean on teams in the 4th qtr. O line first though.
 

barney44

All-American
Oct 2, 2005
185,597
5,325
0
I agree. I would like to see them get the ground game going so they can lean on teams in the 4th qtr. O line first though.

The line is about as important as it gets. If we could get a potent offensive line then that lessens the need for outstanding skill players. A mediocre back can look great behind a strong offensive line. It all starts up front, on both lines and the better we are there the better we are as a whole.
 

bshirt73

Senior
Aug 31, 2014
2,853
769
0
The last thing I want for NU is a "balanced" offense. All that really means is we'll be at best marginal to average at everything.

Nope. I want an identity. And I want to run the ball. We'll never win diddly-squat with fluff-ball.
 

nebcountry

Senior
Oct 29, 2013
1,878
796
0
I just want to get some opinions on a couple of things. I haven't payed a lot of attention to teams that pass first so I really don't know what to expect when MR gets the players he is looking for. Not much for NFL either.
1. Is this really what MR is trying to do? Or is that just the assumption?
2. Can an offense still be physically dominant with more focus on the pass?
3. How does everyone expect it to play out?

Only my opinions that follow.

1. Our offense is predicated on changing things up, make a defense be ready for anything run or pass. That is our offensive identity as I see it and what our coaches have as a goal. Our passing attempts and rushing attempts for the year are super close to being even.
2. Passing game you are attempting to protect ground, rushing game you are attempting to gain ground. We can still play physically in either mode. Is up to the coaches if they want to install a working attitude or a junk-yard dog attitude. Will be interesting to see which route we take.
3. I would be surprised if we show remarkable improvement in year two. Optimistically, games have been close, if the ball bounces our way next year, we do much better record wise. Cavanaugh announced today no OLine rotation, too much of a talent drop off. Lewis, Kondolo, and Reeves will all leave after this year. We'll be cuttin' teeth again next year on the OLine with zero game experience from what looks to be at least two positions (assuming Gates, Utter, and Thurston return and start). I have nothing other than a bad feeling that non-starter OLine transfers will happen. We will either be starting a true freshman qb or a senior qb that hasn't shown that he fully grasps the new systems. Neither of those two choices invokes overwhelming optimism in me. I haven't answered your 3rd question yet. I am a fan of NU football, I have to think we will get better.
 

NikkiSixx_rivals269993

All-Conference
Sep 14, 2013
9,784
2,226
0
I do think we can show remarkable improvement in 2016, but that requires a different QB.

As much as I prefer a run first offense, the truth is, POB will be here in just over 2 months, and if he beats out TA, which he should (see the stats he is posting this year), then we do have a chance at making big improvement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GBR_Atlanta

huskerssalts

All-Conference
Oct 6, 2014
7,213
1,221
0
I don't know guys, i get what you are selling. But if i was the OC i would probably do the samething. If my run game is getting shut completely down and the pressure is on to get yardage and score every series, im probably going to pass the ball, bubble screens or something that gets me yards. Hes our OC, hes on our side and hes doing what he feels he needs to, to help win the game or put us in that position.

I feel for Riley, Langs and the Banker. There doing what they can with what they have. We have a pour oline, average at best RBs, A decent dual threat QB that struggles with short to medium passes and makes some bad decisions, on defense we have a **** ton of injuries to important starters (LB being the biggest hit and a very important role), DBs that arent fast and struggle with man coverage and theres youth on top of that outside Rose and Davie and we dont have much of a pass rush (we lost that when Randy Gregory went pro).

I really would of loved to see how Saban or Jim H at Mich would of done with this issue on our team. Maybe pulled off a win or 2 more in the close game but i think our issues aren't simple little adjustments. It maybe a year or so till we are kicking azz like wed like to be. It might be once O'Brien or possibly Gebbia are seasoned up.
 
Last edited:

huskerssalts

All-Conference
Oct 6, 2014
7,213
1,221
0
Your dead right Rover, when Tommys actually on with his threws, the WRs are open and can get us the first down, touch down or just simple yardage, they need to catch the ball. Im sorry, in my opinion, no starting WR in D1 football on any team should ever drop an wide open pass to them. Hopefully this will change with WR like Morgan, K Johnson jr and other 4 star or better wr's. Yes i believe Keshawn Johnson Jr is ours to loss and im hopeing Hightower and a few other rival top 250 wr come join the Huskers. This should help with those issues. But till then, i hate to say it, we may see a few more drops.
 

rez dog 70

Heisman
Sep 11, 2011
156,591
36,649
113
How many first downs have been dropped???
How many touchdowns have been dropped???

We have issues from playcalling to execution. But the sure catch drops in my opinion has poisoned everything else.
 

huskerssalts

All-Conference
Oct 6, 2014
7,213
1,221
0
Oh hell, theres been a lot. The right play call, the right choice by Tommy, Tommy makes a good threw and hits on the money and its dropped and kills the drive. Then we get fans calling for coaches heads. Agreed its not always the case of drops that's the issue. But for real, if our WR's catch all there passes, wouldn't that change some of our outcome to the games we played?
 

SilentCommit

Senior
Jun 19, 2013
1,145
716
0
Watch the New York Giants play on Sunday. Watch their play calling. This is a great window into what our coaches believe in philosophically. Heck, watch 90% of NFL teams, and you'll get the idea.
 
  • Like
Reactions: huskerssalts

huskerssalts

All-Conference
Oct 6, 2014
7,213
1,221
0
I got to say, if we want the elite players, running a balanced offense or an offense that matches whats ran into the NFL will help us get them.
 

TheBeav815

All-Conference
Feb 19, 2007
18,955
4,696
0
Whether they don't run because they suck at running, or they suck at running because they don't practice run enough, I don't know.

But the play selection tells the story. Whether they want to be or not, they ARE a pass-first team right now, and that's failing. They can't reliably convert when they need tough yards, and they can't punch it into the end zone.

The defense has been getting better, but the offense can't keep them off the field. All the 3-and-outs and short drives are putting them right back out there to get worn down with their lack of depth. So what happens? 4th quarter comes, they're gassed, and they start getting abused.

You'll never drag me off the belief that the best offense is to be a run-first team that has a solid play-action game out of those same run looks and formations. As the 97 team showed, you can win it all with a pretty bad passing game and a dominant run game. I have yet to see the throwing team that couldn't run win it all.
 

TheBeav815

All-Conference
Feb 19, 2007
18,955
4,696
0
And to the point of what the NFL does, that is not relevant to college. The YPC in the NFL is lower, it's unheard of for a team to post a 400 yd rushing game in the NFL. So what pro teams do should NOT dictate what college teams do.

Case in point, Chip Kelly's offense that people thought was just gonna light up the league, was good for a little bit while it was new and mysterious, but now defenses have it figured out and the Eagles are totally average.

The only question is whether the coaches understand that, or Langsdorf understands that, whether he's trying to win where he is right now, be a college coach, or build audition tape for an NFL OC job.
 

huskerssalts

All-Conference
Oct 6, 2014
7,213
1,221
0
Ok so we can shut up about us being a pass first team i actually went threw are season stats and play calls so far and heres the totals so far...

We have ran the ball 290 times and passed the ball (attempts wise) 292 times. My conclusion is, we are as dead balanced as it can almost get. I didn't try and figure the percentages out but if i had to guess, thats a 49% run to 51% pass ratio or something.

So again, how are we a pass first team when the play call after 8 games is only 2 more passes to runs being the difference? Some of you just don't like some of the calls, and would rather run it more but it doesn't make us run first or pass first over a few questionable calls throughout a game.
 
Last edited:

huskerssalts

All-Conference
Oct 6, 2014
7,213
1,221
0
Now could we run it and favor the running game a bit more, oh im sure we could but if the runs are not there and we are struggling to get 2.2 yards per carry, wouldn't you think anyone with a brain would try and pass it if the run just isn't there, i know i would. Its simple, our offensive line sucks, sorry they just do. This year, 50/50 mix is probably the norm if we want a shot to win. The rest falls on Tommy and the WRs shoulders.
 
Last edited:

GBR_Atlanta

Junior
Mar 9, 2015
1,011
304
0
I've got to believe that sooner or later the run game is going to get back on it's feet. Sooner or later we're going to find the guy, and sooner or later the O-Line is going to get things going. And when it does it's going to change everything .
 

huskerssalts

All-Conference
Oct 6, 2014
7,213
1,221
0
Keep faith brotha, thats all we can do and support our Huskers and our Husker coaches. This year the coaches or players are going no where and we have who we have. So were either Husker fans or we are not.
 

ExxHusker

Junior
Nov 21, 2001
387
229
0
Three things can happen when you pass. Two of them are bad. Dropped passes are one of the two bad things. Just saying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jeans15

Lincoln100

All-Conference
Jun 16, 2010
12,989
1,904
0
Watch the New York Giants play on Sunday. Watch their play calling. This is a great window into what our coaches believe in philosophically. Heck, watch 90% of NFL teams, and you'll get the idea.
I think this is right, which means this is a pass first offense.
Ok so we can shut up about us being a pass first team i actually went threw are season stats and play calls so far and heres the totals so far...

We have ran the ball 290 times and passed the ball (attempts wise) 292 times. My conclusion is, we are as dead balanced as it can almost get. I didn't try and figure the percentages out but if i had to guess, thats a 49% run to 51% pass ratio or something.

So again, how are we a pass first team when the play call after 8 games is only 2 more passes to runs being the difference? Some of you just don't like some of the calls, and would rather run it more but it doesn't make us run first or pass first over a few questionable calls throughout a game.

By pass first, it doesn't necessarily mean that the #'s are going to be skewed in that direction, especially under the circumstances. I don't have any doubt that the coaches want to pass it first, and have many times passed when running it made a lot of sense. It is roughly 50 / 50 right now, and I am guessing that is the way it well end up at the end of the year, but that has a great deal to do with personnel. If / when they get the guys they want, I'm guessing it will be around 65 / 35.
 

barney44

All-American
Oct 2, 2005
185,597
5,325
0
I do think we can show remarkable improvement in 2016, but that requires a different QB.

As much as I prefer a run first offense, the truth is, POB will be here in just over 2 months, and if he beats out TA, which he should (see the stats he is posting this year), then we do have a chance at making big improvement.

There is nothing saying POB will beat out Armstrong. The problem I have with that is the fact that there is always some great QB in waiting and they never appear in reality. Even with a pro style QB they still need blockers or they'll suffer the same as Armstrong in many cases.
 

barney44

All-American
Oct 2, 2005
185,597
5,325
0
Oh hell, theres been a lot. The right play call, the right choice by Tommy, Tommy makes a good threw and hits on the money and its dropped and kills the drive. Then we get fans calling for coaches heads. Agreed its not always the case of drops that's the issue. But for real, if our WR's catch all there passes, wouldn't that change some of our outcome to the games we played?

Dropped balls, over thrown balls, etc. are a part of the game and Nebraska isn't the only team to suffer from it. The problem is that we don't play well enough to make up for those sorts of problems. A team that plays well can be good enough to overcome their mistakes and Nebraska is very sloppy so we need those catches to happen more so than other teams out there.
 

barney44

All-American
Oct 2, 2005
185,597
5,325
0
I got to say, if we want the elite players, running a balanced offense or an offense that matches whats ran into the NFL will help us get them.

Alabama runs a pro style offense but they are not a pass first offense. Balanced offenses don't mean your system prefers the pass. I cant remember what game it was but Kiffin and his bubble screen magic pissed Saban off on short yardage plays and you seen Saban yelling at him telling him to "run the ******* football" and that is the definition of favoring the run even though you're not a run heavy team.
 

barney44

All-American
Oct 2, 2005
185,597
5,325
0
Ok so we can shut up about us being a pass first team i actually went threw are season stats and play calls so far and heres the totals so far...

We have ran the ball 290 times and passed the ball (attempts wise) 292 times. My conclusion is, we are as dead balanced as it can almost get. I didn't try and figure the percentages out but if i had to guess, thats a 49% run to 51% pass ratio or something.

So again, how are we a pass first team when the play call after 8 games is only 2 more passes to runs being the difference? Some of you just don't like some of the calls, and would rather run it more but it doesn't make us run first or pass first over a few questionable calls throughout a game.

So if a west coast offense has an equal number of attempts does that mean it's "balanced" and not a pass first offense? We're talking simple offensive philosophy here, not the number of snaps. A west coast offense is a pro style offense that uses the pass to set up the run rather than the old establish the run to set up the pass. It's 100% a pass first offense even though it can be balanced. This certainly isn't the NFL and the list of very successful college teams to run these types of offenses is short.
 

huskerssalts

All-Conference
Oct 6, 2014
7,213
1,221
0
Well my opinion of a pass first offense is Texas Tech, Hawaii and teams like that, teams who go 70/30 pass to run. Sorry, maybe im stupid or missing something, but when a i see a dam near 50 to 50 split, i think balance and equals no favor of run or pass. Which do you guys think Riley would say we are, pass first, run first or BALANCED?
 

huskerssalts

All-Conference
Oct 6, 2014
7,213
1,221
0
Sorry, actually no im not. You guys are putting the pass first tag on our offense because our running game sucks due to our pour oline play and Langs opts to pass on certain downs to gain oir yardage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GBR_Atlanta

dinglefritz

All-American
Jan 14, 2011
47,810
8,768
78
Three things can happen when you pass. Two of them are bad. Dropped passes are one of the two bad things. Just saying.
You obviously weren't around when Dan Alexander played. A dropped pitch can be recovered by the opponent. A dropped pass at least isn't a turnover. Osborne did Huskerdom a grave disservice when he uttered that phrase. He passed when the situation dictated it and he did it fairly frequently in some big games.
 

barney44

All-American
Oct 2, 2005
185,597
5,325
0
Well my opinion of a pass first offense is Texas Tech, Hawaii and teams like that, teams who go 70/30 pass to run. Sorry, maybe im stupid or missing something, but when a i see a dam near 50 to 50 split, i think balance and equals no favor of run or pass. Which do you guys think Riley would say we are, pass first, run first or BALANCED?

Offenses just aren't broken down in to three simple categories. Texas Tech may have been pass first but the difference is that they were pass "heavy", not balanced. Again, it's not about play selection, it's about using one to set up another.
 

barney44

All-American
Oct 2, 2005
185,597
5,325
0
You obviously weren't around when Dan Alexander played. A dropped pitch can be recovered by the opponent. A dropped pass at least isn't a turnover. Osborne did Huskerdom a grave disservice when he uttered that phrase. He passed when the situation dictated it and he did it fairly frequently in some big games.

Yeah, that quote is over used considering any way you handle the ball you risk something bad happening. I do prefer the run to keep the ball in someones hands rather than it being open for anyone in the air. BTW, that quote goes further back than Osborne too..
 

dinglefritz

All-American
Jan 14, 2011
47,810
8,768
78
Yeah, that quote is over used considering any way you handle the ball you risk something bad happening. I do prefer the run to keep the ball in someones hands rather than it being open for anyone in the air. BTW, that quote goes further back than Osborne too..
Once TO uttered the words though it became part of the Bible. I prefer a heavier run balance too BUT not being able to throw the ball just drives me nuts as much as not being able to run it.
 

TruHusker

All-Conference
Sep 21, 2001
11,952
1,910
98
The comparison between college and pro teams doesn't hold water. There is much less consistency in the college game from week to week verses the relative amount of talent on each professional team.

Over time what works for a while seems to be gone and never to return. Single wing, I , veer, wishbone, spread, west coast, read option, single back, power I, and the current read option spread sets. It would appear that given time what once was dominate isn't after a while. I would ask why some of these styles of play are not seen much on a national level. There is a reason we don't see the bone in wholesale around the country.

Since there is more inconsistency in the college game verses the pro game you are going to seem major changes in how a team plays D. If I were playing against Nebraska I would focus on stopping our running game starting with the I Back first and the QB second. You take your lumps with Jano but you don't let Armstrongs legs beat you. Then you force a slightly over 50% passer into something that is not his area of comfort. Whereas most pro teams are by design balanced and able to take advantage of what a D will give. Pro D's aren't as likely to throw the sell-out to stop the other team because even poorer teams have someone that can advantage of that.

I believe this staff would like a balanced approach. However, when you look at the team it is apparent that our strength is in the passing game when you take all of the parts into play. Could we be a dominate running team? Evidently not with this O-line. Armstrong has to do enough to keep teams off balance with his legs. Now the opposing D doesn't care and is having more and more confident in stopping our run and forcing him to throw.

So they are stuck with trying to take advantage of what the D gives. They run 9 in the box and we throw the ball as we should. They back off with deep LB drops then you go underneath. They run cover two you go to the sidelines, cover three and you find the underneath seams. The play call is simple but our execution is awful at best. Yes it is take what the D gives but you still have to execute thus the many open receivers and the dropped passes what could have turned this season around. The margin of error is slim.

I know people will disagree but the days of being one dimensional are over at least on a widespread basis. Evidence would back that up I think.

That being said there is a base you have to build on. It isn't an either or meaning run or pass. You need to be good at both - successful teams are. If you can't do it well, then you don't try anymore. It takes a while to get the talent and the technique you want developed.