Patterson-- For some reason
- Thread starter dirtydawg40
- Start date
Our coaches have tried like crazy to get Boyd and Cox interested in Ole Miss. No luck. They aren't having it. They don't want to go to Ole Miss. Why can't Patterson just not want to go to MSU without all this negative talk about him?
at one time. Decommitted supposedly because of our bad offensive system, but now that we have a proven offensive guy on the college level coming in to correct that problem he's still dogging us. I think a lot of MSU folks thought that the new offensive scheme coming in, it would be attractive to Patterson. Without the original verbal, his non-interest would probably be more understandable. At this point, I really don't care what he does. He's a good player but Mullen WILL find good WRs that want to play in his system. I don't think there is any question about that.</p>
he's made it pretty clear he's not very interested in going to MSU right now. So simply because of that he's a bad apple that's going to be a problem with whatever team he goes to and has a bad attitude and the whole nine. Notice in your post you didn't come up with anything that gave any reason to call him any of the above.
Look what a good DLine Ole Miss had this past season. Nobody is saying oh Boyd and Cox must be bad apples and aren't team players if they don't want to go to Ole Miss.
And you're "proven" offensive guy is anything but. He's never coached a game in his life. He may turn out great (and I personally think he'll have MSU in bowls consistently starting, if not next year, the year after) but as of now he hasn't proven anything. Patterson can go catch passes from Snead for a couple of years or the savior of college footbal in Tyler Russell (also completely unproven)
All I'm saying is try giving he guy a break. Not everyone wants to be in Starkville or anywhere for that matter.
Look what a good DLine Ole Miss had this past season. Nobody is saying oh Boyd and Cox must be bad apples and aren't team players if they don't want to go to Ole Miss.
And you're "proven" offensive guy is anything but. He's never coached a game in his life. He may turn out great (and I personally think he'll have MSU in bowls consistently starting, if not next year, the year after) but as of now he hasn't proven anything. Patterson can go catch passes from Snead for a couple of years or the savior of college footbal in Tyler Russell (also completely unproven)
All I'm saying is try giving he guy a break. Not everyone wants to be in Starkville or anywhere for that matter.
He still had interest in State at one point in time, which pretty much disproves the assumption that he just doesn't want to go to State period. Why? Simply because all of the same schools that were recruiting him then are recruiting him now. So, what gives? well, I'm assuming some bad apples towards our previous coaching staff, and whatever happened with the visit with Mullen.
But that's not my beef with you. Lets see... Our coach has proved himself by coaching two of the best QBs to play the game in the last 10 years. He's also helped lead Utah (UTAH!!) to a BCS bowl win before it was cool for the mid-majors. That's not to mention that he has two national championship rings as an offensive coordinator. Nobody said he was a proven head coach, but That dang sure tells me that he is a proven offensive guy. I'm sure he can work a little magic with T Russell in the near future as well.
But that's not my beef with you. Lets see... Our coach has proved himself by coaching two of the best QBs to play the game in the last 10 years. He's also helped lead Utah (UTAH!!) to a BCS bowl win before it was cool for the mid-majors. That's not to mention that he has two national championship rings as an offensive coordinator. Nobody said he was a proven head coach, but That dang sure tells me that he is a proven offensive guy. I'm sure he can work a little magic with T Russell in the near future as well.
Not sure where all the bad apple **** is coming from. I haven't heard anything negative about Patterson except that he doesn't want to come to Msu. Alot of people are basing their opinion on the situation from "reliable sources," who think they know what's going on. They think he's telling people what they want to here, but the fact is the guy hasn't mentioned State in any interviews, since I think he decommitted. Patterson may not be the smartest guy, but I don't think he is a bad apple.
They never gave Ole Miss a chance, so why would they think they are bad apples? Now if they would have committed to Ole Miss, then decommitted, I'm sure there would be Ole Miss fans saying they are head cases or bad apples just to make them feel better about them decommitting. Not the case, so bad example. Same happened with McPhee, when he was looking at going to Uga, you had some State fans saying the same bs. The fact of the matter is Uga>Msu.
I don't understand this. What does an OC do then? No, he doesn't have head coaching experience, but the guy has COACHED a game. Hell, he coached one thursday night. He also coaches offense and had pretty good ones, so I would say he is a proven offensive guy. I guarantee that we will be significantly better on offense next year, because of Mullen.
is that he hasn't commited to OM yet. Croom obviously pissed someone off with respect to Patterson and I have given up all hope that he will come to State; however, I would wager that he really doesn't want to go to OM either. Why hasn't he commited to OM yet if that's where he wants to go? The fact that he is still taking his Bama visit and that according to Yancy (disclaimer: since this is from Yancy it is probably ********) he found out he has his ACT score - I would be worried if I were an OM fan if he makes it to T-Town.
and regretted it. He's going to take all his visits. Or at least four. I'm not even saying he's a lock for Ole Miss. But for the guy that said earlier he hadn't seen anyone calling Patterson a trouble maker or bad team guy...see the post that started this thread.
muddawgs33 said:
That is part of the weird part to me. When Mullen was announced and the news made the rounds at the MS/Bama game, he was quoted as saying he was excited about Mullen and that him, Russell, and Bumphis were all considering going to MSU together. So the interest was there as recently as a few weeks ago. When Mullen got to Mississippi, he went straight to Bumphis and Russell and told them they were top targets. Part of me wonders if Patterson got his ego hurt when Mullen waited till later to contact him. It was shortly after that in the UM Rivals interview where he says he has not heard anything from MSU, and then MSU disappears from his list. I really think he is trying to play the "look what you missed card" on Mullen now that he is a target.
Charlie Weis has "coached" Tom Brady and has three superbowl rings and all that. That didn't stop him from going 3-9 and 7-6 the last two seasons at the pinnacle of college football. 0 bowl wins in four years as a head coach.
Chizik was a coordinator at Auburn when they went 13-0 and won a national champisonship at Texas as a D coordinator. Sucked *** at Iowa State.
Mike Stoops at Oklahoma then sucked *** at Zona.
David Cutcliffe has a national championship ring I believe. "Coached" Peyton Manning.
That's the thing. Do you really think we would have never heard of Alex Smith or Tim Tebow if it weren't for Dan Mullen? Urban Meyer is clearly the link to success. Not saying Dan didn't help but Meyer could have had any number of guys in that spot and still gotten the same results most likely. And again I'm not saying Dan isn't or won't be a good head coach but right now he is unproven.
Do you really think Patterson cares what kind of coaching he gets or who his position coach is or what QBs have played under Dan Mullen in the past if he still thinks he'd have 2 or 3 losing seasons in Starkville (not saying that will happen but it sure sounds like what he thinks will happen)
Chizik was a coordinator at Auburn when they went 13-0 and won a national champisonship at Texas as a D coordinator. Sucked *** at Iowa State.
Mike Stoops at Oklahoma then sucked *** at Zona.
David Cutcliffe has a national championship ring I believe. "Coached" Peyton Manning.
That's the thing. Do you really think we would have never heard of Alex Smith or Tim Tebow if it weren't for Dan Mullen? Urban Meyer is clearly the link to success. Not saying Dan didn't help but Meyer could have had any number of guys in that spot and still gotten the same results most likely. And again I'm not saying Dan isn't or won't be a good head coach but right now he is unproven.
Do you really think Patterson cares what kind of coaching he gets or who his position coach is or what QBs have played under Dan Mullen in the past if he still thinks he'd have 2 or 3 losing seasons in Starkville (not saying that will happen but it sure sounds like what he thinks will happen)
Damn, you're making this complicated.
*Patterson commits to MSU
*Croom gets Croomed
*MSU hires what many consider one of the top OCs in the nation.
*Patterson decommits because he doesn't like MSUs offense?
Let's see...he committed when we were running the nations 100+ offense each year, but backs away after we make an apparent huge upgrade in offensive coaching, and you think he simply "doesn't want to go to MSU?" And Mullen is "anything but a proven offensive coach?" Really? Mullen isn't a proven head coach, but to say he isn't a proven offensive coach is just stupid. Doesn't always translate to success as a HC, but the boy is a proven offensive mind.
*Patterson commits to MSU
*Croom gets Croomed
*MSU hires what many consider one of the top OCs in the nation.
*Patterson decommits because he doesn't like MSUs offense?
Let's see...he committed when we were running the nations 100+ offense each year, but backs away after we make an apparent huge upgrade in offensive coaching, and you think he simply "doesn't want to go to MSU?" And Mullen is "anything but a proven offensive coach?" Really? Mullen isn't a proven head coach, but to say he isn't a proven offensive coach is just stupid. Doesn't always translate to success as a HC, but the boy is a proven offensive mind.
I think what some in this thread are missing is the fact that Patterson committed to you this summer after MSU won a bowl game and before a single game was played this season.
Maybe he bought into Croom and felt the program was on the rise. Then this season happened and he saw how inept your team was and decommitted. It looks like he isn't just focusing on offense, but on the team as a whole.
Some of the posters in this thread are making it seem like Patterson committed during the season and then decommitted. The truth is, he chose your team when it appeared they had turned the corner, then decommitted well before most of the posters on this board even knew who Dan Mullen was and where he worked.
At the moment (as it was with you last offseason), OM appears to be a proven commodity. While I understand your fans optimism for Mullen, the world outside of MSU fans (including Patterson) feel Mullen is unproven. And the truth is, he is. He may be great, he may slightly improve you, or he may stink. There is no way for anyone, including you guys, to know. If Patterson choses the more successful teams than MSU at the moment, whether that be Bama or OM, who could blame him. There is also the chance that he looks at how Omar Conner's and James Patterson's careers at MSU worked out.
DiamondReb has been unreasonable in the past, but this isn't the case here. He makes a good point with the Boyd/Cox arguement. Look at our teams success, especially on the DLine and ask yourself why Boyd/Cox won't consider us. There is nothing shady, they just don't care for our teams.
Personally, I could see Bumpis fitting in your offense better in a Harvin role, than Patterson. Florida's offense doesn't revolve around the WR's like it used to under Spurrier. It's about the small backs and QBs now.
Maybe he bought into Croom and felt the program was on the rise. Then this season happened and he saw how inept your team was and decommitted. It looks like he isn't just focusing on offense, but on the team as a whole.
Some of the posters in this thread are making it seem like Patterson committed during the season and then decommitted. The truth is, he chose your team when it appeared they had turned the corner, then decommitted well before most of the posters on this board even knew who Dan Mullen was and where he worked.
At the moment (as it was with you last offseason), OM appears to be a proven commodity. While I understand your fans optimism for Mullen, the world outside of MSU fans (including Patterson) feel Mullen is unproven. And the truth is, he is. He may be great, he may slightly improve you, or he may stink. There is no way for anyone, including you guys, to know. If Patterson choses the more successful teams than MSU at the moment, whether that be Bama or OM, who could blame him. There is also the chance that he looks at how Omar Conner's and James Patterson's careers at MSU worked out.
DiamondReb has been unreasonable in the past, but this isn't the case here. He makes a good point with the Boyd/Cox arguement. Look at our teams success, especially on the DLine and ask yourself why Boyd/Cox won't consider us. There is nothing shady, they just don't care for our teams.
Personally, I could see Bumpis fitting in your offense better in a Harvin role, than Patterson. Florida's offense doesn't revolve around the WR's like it used to under Spurrier. It's about the small backs and QBs now.
recruit Tebow? And he wasn't a lock to go to UF. Bama was after him pretty hard. So, yes, I would say that Mullen gets some of the credit for Tim Tebow. Plus, the fact that Tebow improved every year that he was a QB with Mullen as his position coach. So, yeah, I'd have to give Mullen some credit for Tebow.
As far as your second question about Patterson, I don't know if he cares who his position coach is, but he should. And if he thinks that our offense is going to be as bad as it was under Croom, well, he's a moron. Statistically speaking, when you are that low, odds are in your favor that you will improve. I also find it somewhat odd that he is the ONLY recruit out there that seems to think that we may have losing seasons two out of the next three years- of course, this is per you and not him, theoretically of course. Heck, as bad as our offense was, we were a kicker away from getting a rematch with La Tech in the Indy Bowl. I'm sure that our new coaches have falied to notice that, especaially with the Bagman, Turner, and the immortal Rockey Felker still hanging out.
If you're going to talk about "failed" coordinators- Stoops went to a bowl and beat BYU this year, Cutcliffe won you a Cotton Bowl and then goes to Duke and doubles their win total from the previous year- you need to also mention that the last guy that was Meyer's OC, Kyle Whittingham has done pretty well at Utah. And I believe that he was their OC. But I guess all of his success was because of Meyer and Alex Smith to, right?
As far as your second question about Patterson, I don't know if he cares who his position coach is, but he should. And if he thinks that our offense is going to be as bad as it was under Croom, well, he's a moron. Statistically speaking, when you are that low, odds are in your favor that you will improve. I also find it somewhat odd that he is the ONLY recruit out there that seems to think that we may have losing seasons two out of the next three years- of course, this is per you and not him, theoretically of course. Heck, as bad as our offense was, we were a kicker away from getting a rematch with La Tech in the Indy Bowl. I'm sure that our new coaches have falied to notice that, especaially with the Bagman, Turner, and the immortal Rockey Felker still hanging out.
If you're going to talk about "failed" coordinators- Stoops went to a bowl and beat BYU this year, Cutcliffe won you a Cotton Bowl and then goes to Duke and doubles their win total from the previous year- you need to also mention that the last guy that was Meyer's OC, Kyle Whittingham has done pretty well at Utah. And I believe that he was their OC. But I guess all of his success was because of Meyer and Alex Smith to, right?
I don't think Pat is coming to MSU even though I think it is interesting that both Neal and Rosebowl still think MSU will have a shot before it is over. What I can say is that it is not that Pat does not like MSU. He committed to MSU until his dad was able to show him that he did not need to be in an offense as bad as Croom's (which I fully can not blame him for). Per Pat's own words though (not Steve or Yancy) he was excited about Mullen at MSU until there was no contact from the current staff. The reason he is not listing MSU is because his feelings got hurt that he was not one of the first contacted like Mullen and Bumphis. The reason Steve and Neal feel MSU can still make a move is because Pat is not fully against MSU and if Mullen were able to make amends we would have a shot. The problem is I don't know that Mullen is good enough yet to overcome what has been done by Croom and now the current staff. If Patterson does not commit on his Bama trip, Ole Miss stands a chance. I think Bama is probably the team to beat right now.
As for the Boyd / Cox situation they never even remotely expressed any interest any MSU, but according to most Rebel fans it is because they have been raised with anti-rebel families and just can not see how Ole Miss has progressed. It has nothing to do with the fact tht the kids just like MSU.
As for the Boyd / Cox situation they never even remotely expressed any interest any MSU, but according to most Rebel fans it is because they have been raised with anti-rebel families and just can not see how Ole Miss has progressed. It has nothing to do with the fact tht the kids just like MSU.
I agree with your point of maybe Pat thought MSU had turned the corner...but that fact is, we had put a 100+ offense on the field every year Croom was there...including the bowl season. For him to say he is now concerned about MSU's offense is stupid. When he commited, it was the same crap that it was that possibly led to his decommitment...with the exception that we've seemed to upgrade by hiring Mullen.
I will agree with this, if he doesn't want to come to MSU, then so be it...
I will agree with this, if he doesn't want to come to MSU, then so be it...
some seriously shady **** is a hypocritical ******. As I have said before, I wish that we were willing to pull the same **** at every turn that mississippi does. But, we don't come close. The only name you need to know is ewop or whatever it is the vaginas call him. What makes it so damn funky is that patterson was one of the group at the MS ALA allstar game that was so excited about Mullen and his offense. Well, Patterson obviously got home and was reminded by someone that things have already been put in place and that is when he starts backtracking left and right. And doesn't he have an asst. coach that is seriously prorebel. That is probably where the dealbroker is.
the Allstar game. During conversation directly following the game Coach told him he was not impressed with his level of play.DirtyLopez said:
Disclaimer: I was not there but was told this directly by a person who was. (the person is not a coach but is a State employee)
I'm pretty sure Patterson decommitted right after the 3-2 Auburn loss, which would lead me to believe that he doesn't think the players are in place for him to have a chance to play on a good offense.
If you're a good RB or a good QB, you can have a little more freedom with where you pick, but if you're a good WR, you need to pick a school that you know will have success throwing the ball, because so much of your potential success is reliant on having at least decent QB play and decent OL play.
Point being, I think your lack of play makers this season on offense is what scared Patterson away, which is why I'm guessing the coaching change hasn't effected things. You still have the same players you had before Mullen was hired.
If you're a good RB or a good QB, you can have a little more freedom with where you pick, but if you're a good WR, you need to pick a school that you know will have success throwing the ball, because so much of your potential success is reliant on having at least decent QB play and decent OL play.
Point being, I think your lack of play makers this season on offense is what scared Patterson away, which is why I'm guessing the coaching change hasn't effected things. You still have the same players you had before Mullen was hired.
no worries about not pulling the shady **** any more.
And no, I don't blame you. I wouldn't mind having both of them myself.
And no, I don't blame you. I wouldn't mind having both of them myself.
At that time, ETOH was technically illegal in every county. Over time, a de facto system had developed in which the sheriff/tax collector in each county collected what amounted to a legal bribe from liquor store owners. In the thirties and forties, it had been a "fine" for breaking the law and overtime a custom developed by which the fine in essence became a tax... it was known as a "black market tax" when I was in high school. Store operators agree to abide by a set of rules established by the sheriff (no sales to minors, no sales after midnight, no Sunday sales, etc.) in return the sheriff simply collected the "tax" and moved on. If they violated the rules, they were sometimes shut down and sometimes they paid a "bigger tax" to stay open.
The NCAA has evolved a similar de facto set of rules. Things that are technically cheating are often overlooked for various reasons from the health of the NCAA to the the tradition of a program. (Face facts, if Ole Miss or MSU had been caught in the Alabama **** a few years ago, they would have burn the campuses to the ground and salted the ground.) Negative public attitudes about the NCAA have also ameliorated their desire to smack down programs. Likewise, when the NCAA backs off on sanctions for one team, it becomes more difficult for them to sanction another team for similar behavior.
What has developed as a result is the current environment in which "everybody cheats" and the NCAA has an expectation that it is done in a discrete manner. A friend of mine who is a long time compliance officer with the Pac10 and Big12 says that they will look the other way if you are cheating at the same level as the rest of the folks in your conference, but draw the line when you give Hummers to kid and your conference competition is only giving 4Runners. The list of so-called, self-reported minor violations has grown significantly over the years and accrue little more than an administrative slap on the wrist.
Bottom line. Hell yes we cheat. Probably about as much as you cheat in a given year. More in some and less in others. You guys, however, have been caught more. There is not a successful program on the planet that does not cheat... a lot of the unsuccessful programs cheat, too.
Get over it.
The NCAA has evolved a similar de facto set of rules. Things that are technically cheating are often overlooked for various reasons from the health of the NCAA to the the tradition of a program. (Face facts, if Ole Miss or MSU had been caught in the Alabama **** a few years ago, they would have burn the campuses to the ground and salted the ground.) Negative public attitudes about the NCAA have also ameliorated their desire to smack down programs. Likewise, when the NCAA backs off on sanctions for one team, it becomes more difficult for them to sanction another team for similar behavior.
What has developed as a result is the current environment in which "everybody cheats" and the NCAA has an expectation that it is done in a discrete manner. A friend of mine who is a long time compliance officer with the Pac10 and Big12 says that they will look the other way if you are cheating at the same level as the rest of the folks in your conference, but draw the line when you give Hummers to kid and your conference competition is only giving 4Runners. The list of so-called, self-reported minor violations has grown significantly over the years and accrue little more than an administrative slap on the wrist.
Bottom line. Hell yes we cheat. Probably about as much as you cheat in a given year. More in some and less in others. You guys, however, have been caught more. There is not a successful program on the planet that does not cheat... a lot of the unsuccessful programs cheat, too.
Get over it.
Some people are stubborn. Is it so hard to believe that he's been turned off, and no matter much it would or could be in his interest to go to State, he just won't?
I don't believe in thing nefarious is going on. Call me naive.
I don't believe in thing nefarious is going on. Call me naive.
we all know that he wants the ball to be spread around to other people. Heaven forbid he gets as many touches as possible and has to be the superstar that carries the team, thus garnering him more attention for the NFL. He wouldn't want that at all. And I'm also sure that he would probably like to be redshirted and not play right away.
Bottom line- the "there's no talent" factor is a stupid angle.
And as far as having the same players- do you really think that none of these recruits are going to play next year? And even if we did, do you not think that they will be better coached next year?
Bottom line- the "there's no talent" factor is a stupid angle.
And as far as having the same players- do you really think that none of these recruits are going to play next year? And even if we did, do you not think that they will be better coached next year?
and good point about Whittingham. Again I never said that Mullen would not succeed. He very well could and I said I expect him to succeed at least moderatly if not better. But also you see that Whittingham leaving (who waas obviously a good coach) didn't affect Meyer's team in the least. Just like Charlie Weis leaving didn't affect the Patriots in the least. </p>
Certainly you've read saddawg's blog about Florida having to OVERCOME Mullen's recruiting efforts on Tebow in order to sign him. Urban Meyer said it himself. And again do you really think that Tim Tebow would not have improved regardless of who is coach was? I mean really? </p>
See again you are missing the point. You are trying to make points to support your argument that a kid should want to play football at MSU. Maybe he just doesn't want to? Sure he did at one time but maybe he doesn't want to now. And that is no reason to talk trash about him and say he's got a big head and say he's similar to a convicted felon who's in jail for pushing cocaine. </p>
Certainly you've read saddawg's blog about Florida having to OVERCOME Mullen's recruiting efforts on Tebow in order to sign him. Urban Meyer said it himself. And again do you really think that Tim Tebow would not have improved regardless of who is coach was? I mean really? </p>
See again you are missing the point. You are trying to make points to support your argument that a kid should want to play football at MSU. Maybe he just doesn't want to? Sure he did at one time but maybe he doesn't want to now. And that is no reason to talk trash about him and say he's got a big head and say he's similar to a convicted felon who's in jail for pushing cocaine. </p>
That's obvious in that my post included three guys that were coordinators and went on to be head coaches. But you also act like Meyer is so hands off with the offense and it's all dan mullen. Have some basis in reality. He's got a good resume but he has not proven that he can do anything as far as running a program without having Urban Meyer. He just hasn't. Again and for the last time I'm not saying he can't succeed or won't succeed. Just saying he hasn't shown he can do it by himself.
is this player was a State fan growing up and wanted to play there until we lost to Auburn 3-2. Then he comes out and says that he also wants to play in the spread. State fires Croom and hires one of the best spread coaches out there, and now all of a sudden he says we don't have the players to run the spread?
Why didn't he say that from the start? And if he wanted to play in a spread offense, why did he commit to a team that ran the "WCO" from the start? It just sounds like he is making lame excuses for not wanting to come to MSU. That's why he's getting called out.
I'm not all that concerned about Mullen's recruiting. Especially since the assistants will be doing the brunt of that. Despite the fact that he may have made a bad impression on a couple of players, he has also opened the doors to some guys that we would not have gotten otherwise, and he has held this class together.
And Tebow has had a lot of work to do- and still does. And yes, I do believe that McCorvey among others could have royally <17> him up. But it's the amount of progress that Tebow has made in three years that is impressive- remember he didn't RS. Plus, besides Tebow, Mullen has a track record with Leak, Alex Smith, and the guy at Bowling Green that I can't recall, but set some passing records there- Josh Harris? Smith?
Why didn't he say that from the start? And if he wanted to play in a spread offense, why did he commit to a team that ran the "WCO" from the start? It just sounds like he is making lame excuses for not wanting to come to MSU. That's why he's getting called out.
I'm not all that concerned about Mullen's recruiting. Especially since the assistants will be doing the brunt of that. Despite the fact that he may have made a bad impression on a couple of players, he has also opened the doors to some guys that we would not have gotten otherwise, and he has held this class together.
And Tebow has had a lot of work to do- and still does. And yes, I do believe that McCorvey among others could have royally <17> him up. But it's the amount of progress that Tebow has made in three years that is impressive- remember he didn't RS. Plus, besides Tebow, Mullen has a track record with Leak, Alex Smith, and the guy at Bowling Green that I can't recall, but set some passing records there- Josh Harris? Smith?