Philips transfers

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

As I head to the LA - Philps game, with the LA suspensions, an honest question I have is what the balance looks like between LA suspensions and Philips transfers this season.

I know philips got the two MC D1 players, a DLS D1 player, and I believe they have at least four other transfers - which is seven. I've actually heard the number ten, but while i find seven preposterous - ten has to be out right...right?

I'm all for letting kids play and go to school where they want, but when this is going on we need to stop the charades regarding advantages.

So, anyone with the numbers?

 

[JFelice]

Phillips got a d1 transfer from De La Salle?

 

[McCaravan]

Billingsley got kicked out of MC, he didn't transfer, so he was a free agent. MC has had issues with players transferring for decades, years ago they were leaving and going to Hubbard...then Morgan Park....now Philiips....nothing you can do. They'll claim financial hardships and the IHSA will comply.

 

[stella16]

This year De La Salle lost no one to Phillips, that was two years ago LOL

Phillips is loaded and will give Loyola everything they can handle. Much better than they were a year ago.

 

[NNFAN]

When a large number of kids jump to a particular school solely for football reasons (year after year), I really have a problem with it. I'm all in if a student is seeking the best education (or a specialized subject like the IMSA), but this situation with Phillips is getting ridiculous. It is time for schools like Phillips to be multiplied. They are gaining a competitive advantage... benefiting from the open boundary option of a private and the no tuition of a public. I am glad that they petitioned to move up in class this year but they are still three classes from the top. What are the current IHSA success factor rules for open boundary public schools?

 

[BBCHS77]

When a large number of kids jump to a particular school solely for football reasons (year after year), I really have a problem with it. I'm all in if a student is seeking the best education (or a specialized subject like the IMSA), but this situation with Phillips is getting ridiculous. It is time for schools like Phillips to be multiplied. They are gaining a competitive advantage... benefiting from the open boundary option of a private and the no tuition of a public. I am glad that they petitioned to move up in class this year but they are still three classes from the top. What are the current IHSA success factor rules for open boundary public schools?

Young, Normal UHigh etc are treated the same as the private schools..

 

[Cross Bones]

Transfers don't bother me at all whether public or private. People have a right to go to the school they choose as long as it's within the rules. The talent accumulation at Phillips would probably be possible with normal boundaries due to population density and building up instead of out anyways.

Phillips did the right thing, IMO, by requesting up to a class where they more resemble the class even if they fell short by a few classes. I always look at the non-conference games to see where a school thinks they are as there's generally 3 types of scheduling: competitive games, guaranteed wins, whatever is available. Phillips looks like they scheduled for competitive games with Simeon, Loyola, and Richards. Looks like they think they're 8A level, but between 6A-8A for sure.

 

[pjjp]

Phillips did the right thing, IMO, by requesting up to a class where they more resemble the class even if they fell short by a few classes. I always look at the non-conference games to see where a school thinks they are as there's generally 3 types of scheduling: competitive games, guaranteed wins, whatever is available. Phillips looks like they scheduled for competitive games with Simeon, Loyola, and Richards. Looks like they think they're 8A level, but between 6A-8A for sure.

What do you think of Rochester? Should they petition up? 6 titles in 7 years. That's Driscoll level of sustained success.

 

[Cross Bones]

What do you think of Rochester? Should they petition up? 6 titles in 7 years. That's Driscoll level of sustained success.

Why is Rochester winning this way? Are they doing anything the rest of the class is incapable of doing? If so can it be shown?

 

[USD24]

Why is Rochester winning this way? Are they doing anything the rest of the class is incapable of doing? If so can it be shown?

If that is the case, why should private schools be moved up? They are following the rules that are set by the IHSA. Wasn't the multiplier set up to level the playing field? If that is the case, all other rules should be administered uniformly to all the schools in the association. Using your logic, what is Naz and SHG doing any different than the rest of the open enrollment schools? They all have the ability to do whatever Naz, SHG and Montini are doing, so why are those successful schools penalized.

 

[pjjp]

Why is Rochester winning this way? Are they doing anything the rest of the class is incapable of doing? If so can it be shown?

Just to add on to what USD posted, I'm looking at it from the success factor intent. If a school has an extraordinary amount of success in a particular class, should they be moved up? Some say no, since they are not open enrollment. Some say the success factor should be applied to all schools.

 

[Cross Bones]

If that is the case, why should private schools be moved up? They are following the rules that are set by the IHSA. Wasn't the multiplier set up to level the playing field? If that is the case, all other rules should be administered uniformly to all the schools in the association. Using your logic, what is Naz and SHG doing any different than the rest of the open enrollment schools? They all have the ability to do whatever Naz, SHG and Montini are doing, so why are those successful schools penalized.

I agree. I am actually in favor of a split and then nothing to level the playing field--as long as the schools are playing by the same rules in the post season. Granted, I would be upset if I was the Catholic League being enticed over to the IHSA, but who could have guessed after 40 years what type of information we would have and how the situation would evolve.

However, if things stay the same one side will always say the 30 miles are the reason and if everyone gets pushed up then the other side will say "well duh you have 3500 kids". There's no way to fix that objectively.

 

[Cross Bones]

Just to add on to what USD posted, I'm looking at it from the success factor intent. If a school has an extraordinary amount of success in a particular class, should they be moved up? Some say no, since they are not open enrollment. Some say the success factor should be applied to all schools.

I'm against the success factor and request up provisions from an application standpoint. We're just moving one school that doesn't belong in a class up and pushing another that doesn't belong down.

 

[Anonymous_Coward]

If that is the case, why should private schools be moved up? They are following the rules that are set by the IHSA. Wasn't the multiplier set up to level the playing field? If that is the case, all other rules should be administered uniformly to all the schools in the association. Using your logic, what is Naz and SHG doing any different than the rest of the open enrollment schools? They all have the ability to do whatever Naz, SHG and Montini are doing, so why are those successful schools penalized.

So we don't have to listen to HHS/BBCHS moan about boundaries any longer.

 

[CPSFan]

So one kid was kicked out of MC and one transferred. It turns out there were none from DLS. Does anyone know of any other Phillips transfers or who exactly is the source for this information because the numbers right now aren't adding up. 1 transfer is not quite the same as 10 even with my CPS education.

 

[mc140]

So one kid was kicked out of MC and one transferred. It turns out there were none from DLS. Does anyone know of any other Phillips transfers or who exactly is the source for this information because the numbers right now aren't adding up. 1 transfer is not quite the same as 10 even with my CPS education.

Been told they got a decent amount of kids from mid level CPS teams like King and Al Raby. Not D1 kids but good high school players. I guess when we see the roster we can all google and find out.

 

[dcaudle68]

http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/phillips-wildcats-(chicago,il)/football/roster.htm

Lot of guys without uniform number including the 2 MC players.

 

[BBCHS77]

Them having 63 kids on their roster and only about 250 boys in the school.. ton of transfers... hmmmm, probably not the math department thats bringing in the students..

 

[godfthr53]

Just to add on to what USD posted, I'm looking at it from the success factor intent. If a school has an extraordinary amount of success in a particular class, should they be moved up? Some say no, since they are not open enrollment. Some say the success factor should be applied to all schools.

Do you feel like 2 titles in a row is sustained success enough to be moved up or could it have just been an amazing class.

 

[Anonymous_Coward]

Them having 63 kids on their roster and only about 250 boys in the school.. ton of transfers... hmmmm, probably not the math department thats bringing in the students..

Some things never change with you, eh Jon? Except the username.

 

[pjjp]

Do you feel like 2 titles in a row is sustained success enough to be moved up or could it have just been an amazing class.

It's a tough call. Last year's Naz team is a good example. As I understand it, you guys had some key injuries (QB position) which hindered the offense. But, injuries aside, Naz was very young. Should last year's team be "successed up" because the previous two teams were great teams? One can make the argument that the current class should not be "classified" by the results of the prior two.

However, when you are talking about results like Rochester (6 titles in 7 years), it seems the "success factor" should be applied. Is it reasonable to project Rochester as the favorites in 4A this year? Is it reasonable to suggest that they (Rochester) and the rest of 4A would benefit from tougher competition in a higher class? I'd say 7 years is pretty good sample size.

 

[mc140]

Rochester talent level is far above what 4a school should be. When it is sustained like they have they should be up a couple classes.

 

[Doctor_D]

I don't like the S Factor in general, but if there is to be one, I agree with posters that the last decades worth of results say Rochester should be S Factored up.

I'm glad that Phillips petitioned up, seems like the "right" thing to do. But yeah, it's a much broader and more lingering issue than one team for a couple seasons. I'm inclined to think that playoff separation is the way to go. Too many variables for any one size fits all approach.

 

[illini14]

Rochester talent level is far above what 4a school should be. When it is sustained like they have they should be up a couple classes.

Rochester minus Derek Leonard is a perennial 6-7-8 win team. Guy should be coaching college ball somewhere.

 

[BBCHS77]

Exactly, don't penalize a program because they found a great coach..

 

[Doctor_D]

Exactly, don't penalize a program because they found a great coach..

Work harder, get better coaching. Got it. I guess if DL went to coach Dwight High School they'd have a few 3A titles in the next 5 years?

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

I'm not concerned about the transfers etc, I'm just interested in how many new players are on the roster this season that have come to the school in anyway other than through the system.

They are not a typical 3A roster, so my interest lie in ranking them with the bigger schools for the DSR. If I realize that got 7,8,9...new kids and half of them start, that is a major difference.

Take your average 7-2, add a D1 player...that is a major difference - ask moris with Dergo...now add 2 or 3 D1 players...whole nother ball game.

This year De La Salle lost no one to Phillips, that was two years ago LOL

Phillips is loaded and will give Loyola everything they can handle. Much better than they were a year ago.

i hope you caught the irony and are laughing with me.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

The CPS craves something positive. For years CVS and Lane turned out teams that could compete with the Catholics. But with gang problems and decreasing enrollments they fell by the way side. But then Hubbard, Morgan Park and Simeon all became the favored son for a period. The CPS and the IHSA both turned a blind eye to transfers and full contact practices out of the prescribed days. Remember D. Rose's grade being changed and Currie's basketball team playing 15 out 17 players scholastically ineligible? Phillips is just the favor of the month in the CPS now.

 

[mc140]

Exactly, don't penalize a program because they found a great coach..

So now you are for Phillips?

 

[USD24]

Exactly, don't penalize a program because they found a great coach..

Don't u mean "don't penalize a public program because they found a great coach"? You seem fine penalizing private schools for the exact same thing

 

[BBCHS77]

Work harder, get better coaching. Got it. I guess if DL went to coach Dwight High School they'd have a few 3A titles in the next 5 years?

How did he do at Prairie Central? Oh yeah, he won and they havent done crap since he left.

 

[BBCHS77]

Don't u mean "don't penalize a public program because they found a great coach"? You seem fine penalizing private schools for the exact same thing

Not the same exact thing, not even close.. now if private schools want to stick to defined boundaries, then lets talk..

 

[Doctor_D]

How did he do at Prairie Central? Oh yeah, he won and they havent done crap since he left.

So if it's all about the guy with the clipboard, then maybe all the Catholic guys were right all along....

 

[mc140]

How did he do at Prairie Central? Oh yeah, he won and they havent done crap since he left.

They went to the Semis two years after he left.

 

[BBCHS77]

So if it's all about the guy with the clipboard, then maybe all the Catholic guys were right all along....

Never said it was all coaching, Rochester has other things in their favor as well, their location next to the crappy Springfield schools and demographics also help, but DL is what separates them from the rest of 4A..

Success factor was the answer to everyone complaining that all private schools should be treated equally, that a school like St Francis should be treated the same as Montini.. I don't like it either, get rid of the multiplier and the success factor, and put the open enrollment schools in their own classes..

As far as public schools having a success factor.. your school is hardly a great baseball program, 10 years ago they had a great 3 year run because a group of one kids.. how on earth would it have been fair to the kids that followed them to play 3A baseball? Rochester plays by the same rules as most of 4A, with what the bus drops off, why penalize them for success?

And to mc140, good call on the PC team that made it to the quarters, i forgot they had a great group a few years later..

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

Not the same exact thing, not even close.. now if private schools want to stick to defined boundaries, then lets talk..

You do realize Phillips is non-boundry and more like a private than a public, plus has no tuition, so, it is very close...

 

[BBCHS77]

You do realize Phillips is non-boundry and more like a private than a public, plus has no tuition, so, it is very close...

According to the IHSA, they have a boundary... which i completely don't understand..

 

[jwarigaku]

HHS,

The privates have a boundary as well which is the 30 mile radius. Every school is bounded in some way, hell there are public schools that exist that have more than a 30 mile radius. I have been on both sides of the public/private debate and it's just silly. Move on already!

According to the IHSA, they have a boundary... which i completely don't understand..

 

[UlbKA91]

According to the IHSA, they have a boundary... which i completely don't understand..

Maybe AUSL, their charter/turnaround operator, divided the city into larger-than-neighborhood size zones between their respective schools. Solorio is likely the West half of the South side, not sure where AUSL have other campuses. They best get on a solution because I think the Phillips operational model (a football academy) will be the rule for a much smaller # (maybe 24) of CPS school that will actually offer football. If you go with total HS enrollment in catchment area, then that puts all CPS in 8A/7A, which may push most privates into no higher than 7A with or without multiplier. Than the next bleat will be a very bifurcated all public 8A with a wide gulf between LWE, Steve, Maine South and CPS /WSG/U8 type schools.

I will agree with Cross Bones in the sense that Phillips is getting kids closer to campus rather than farther, it has probably just cannabilized the once great Dunbar program. (1 mile north) and kept some from choosing selective King College Prep (1.5 miles SE), KCP dropped to the Chicago and Dunbar may drop out of the Red Bird.

 

[BBCHS77]

HHS,

The privates have a boundary as well which is the 30 mile radius. Every school is bounded in some way, hell there are public schools that exist that have more than a 30 mile radius. I have been on both sides of the public/private debate and it's just silly. Move on already!

Your entire post is simply laughable that you equate the 30 mile radius that Montini uses to an actual boundary that a normal 5A school uses..

And which publics have a 30 mile radius?