Picture evidence of the blown illegal forward pass

af102 · Oct 10, 2009

file:///C:/Users/Andrew/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpgfile:///C:/Users/Andrew/Pictures/lee%20pass.jpg

sorry it isnt that clear, but the ball is circled. lee is a good yard behind the line when he released it.
(it isnt a video, just a picture of the video off of secsports.com)

af102 · Oct 10, 2009

file:///C:/Users/Andrew/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpgfile:///C:/Users/Andrew/Pictures/lee%20pass.jpg

sorry it isnt that clear, but the ball is circled. lee is a good yard behind the line when he released it.
(it isnt a video, just a picture of the video off of secsports.com)

UpTheMiddlex3Punt · Oct 10, 2009

That's why the coaches get their challenges.

AzzurriDawg4 · Oct 10, 2009

backwards k · Oct 10, 2009

enterprising enough to help watch out for ******** like this and whisper in Dan's ear to definitely challenge? I just can't believe that with so many eyes on the play that our sideline still took the side judge's word on this play.

spacecataz · Oct 10, 2009

That is absolutely indisputable.

Damnit...what the hell....

Dog in the Know · Oct 10, 2009

at the top of the screen, just above the MISS, is that the yardage marker signaling the line of scrimmage in orange or is that the down marker? The TV line is not the exact line and it looks to me he is over the line where the orange marker is located. Saying that, I hope the orange marker is the down marker.

Vandelaydawg · Oct 10, 2009

No 17n message

therightway · Oct 11, 2009

I am not sure if this play could have been challenged.

BeerHound · Oct 11, 2009

Dog in the Know said:
at the top of the screen, just above the MISS, is that the yardage marker signaling the line of scrimmage in orange or is that the down marker? The TV line is not the exact line and it looks to me he is over the line where the orange marker is located. Saying that, I hope the orange marker is the down marker.

That is not the los marker. The los marker has the down on it. It isn't visible from that pic. It was a blown call.

scotchie · Oct 11, 2009

The actual rule is that if any part of the passer's body (including his heel) is behind the line of scrimmage it is a LEGAL pass. So the passer's WHOLE (TOTAL) body has to be over the line before it becomes an illegal forward pass. This was clearly not the case. Our coaches in the box blew it big time. I'm just saying.
SECTION 3. Forward Pass Legal Forward Pass ARTICLE 1. Team A may make one forward pass during each scrimmage down before team possession changes, provided the pass is thrown from a point in or behind the neutral zone. Illegal Forward Pass ARTICLE 2. A forward pass is illegal: a. If thrown by a Team A player whose entire body is beyond the neutral zone when he releases the ball [S35 and S9]. b. If thrown by a Team B player or if thrown by a Team A player after team possession has changed during the down [S35]. c. If it is the second forward pass by Team A during the same down [S35 and S9]. d. If, to conserve time, the pass is not thrown immediately after the ball is first controlled after the snap or is thrown after the ball has touched the ground. If, to conserve time, the pass is thrown where no eligible Team A player has a reasonable opportunity to catch it (A.R. 7-3-2-II-VIII) [S35 and S9]. e. If thrown from in or behind the neutral zone after a runner in possession

of the ball has gone beyond the neutral zone [S35 and S9].

Earl of Barke · Oct 11, 2009

ARTICLE 2. Reviewable plays involving passes include:

a. Pass ruled complete, incomplete or intercepted anywhere in the field of play or an end zone.

b. Forward pass touched by a player or an official.

c. Forward pass or forward handing when a ball carrier is or has been beyond the neutral zone.

The upstairs official must have been napping. But also Mullen and his staff blew it by not making a challenge. That is a grievous error on our part.

rhs43 · Oct 11, 2009

Orange marker is the original LOS

thunderclap · Oct 11, 2009

just another sprinkle on top of all the dumb *** plays that have gone against us the last three weeks.

Earl of Barke · Oct 11, 2009

The official holding the dial a down which marks the current LOS is about 3 or 4 feet to the left. Lee is clearly behind the LOS from where it was snapped. Blown call.

dawgstudent · Oct 11, 2009

http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com?topic=31181

Columbus Dawg · Oct 11, 2009

The only explanation is that the side judge thought the orange marker was the line of scrimmage even though it was only representing the original line of scrimmage. That had to be the case because as the rule reads, it wasn't even close to being an illegal forward pass. I know that sounds dumb, but this is the same crew that forgot what down it was.

lawdawg02 · Oct 11, 2009

i remember an NFL replay from a year or two ago where the QB's body was past the line, but his back foot was still on the line, so the pass was legal. how our coaches and the replay ref did not think to review the play is absolutely beyond me.

someone needs to ask mullen about this.

backwards k · Oct 11, 2009

lawdawg02 said:
i remember an NFL replay from a year or two ago where the QB's body was past the line, but his back foot was still on the line, so the pass was legal. how our coaches and the replay ref did not think to review the play is absolutely beyond me.

and I believe it was Eli Manning on Sunday Night Football circa 2 years ago. I only remember because the rule somewhat surprised me. The quarterback can essentially be 1-2 yards passed the LOS, but if he has a toenail still behind it then it's still a legal pass.

I mean, as a coach, and on fourth down, you've got to know that Lee was close, no matter what the side judge says. The staff blew it bigtime. Mullen's quote in the postgame about reffing "not being his job" kind of pissed me off for this reason.

lawdawg02 · Oct 11, 2009

but i couldn't remember how long ago it was. i thought it used to be where the ball actually left his hand, but it's not - it's whether his entire body is past the line.

i didn't hear mullen's quote. but it is a stupid quote - his job is to do whatever it takes to put our team in position to win. making sure the officials call a fair game is part of that, both by being in their ear and challenging them on a BLATANT mistake. it does still suck that the damn replay official (who is supposed to review "all close plays") didn't see a reason to review this call. MORAN.

saddawg · Oct 11, 2009

He said in the tele con. today that he screwed up. Should have challenged.

DawgBot · Oct 11, 2009

I don't know if I can support a coach that throws himself under the bus.

HamilReb · Oct 11, 2009

bluelightstar · Oct 11, 2009

The real question is why that wasn't replayed on the video screen. Most of the student section had no idea if he had passed the LOS so we had to let it go. Seems like if you're going to have that huge screen, use it.

o_HubDawg · Oct 11, 2009

bluelightstar said:
The real question is why that wasn't replayed on the video screen. Most of the student section had no idea if he had passed the LOS so we had to let it go. Seems like if you're going to have that huge screen, use it.

Yeah, because we all know that had the sparse student section simply YELLED AND SCREAMED that the coaching staff would have changed their mind. Great call Nostradamus.

bluelightstar · Oct 11, 2009

Are you suggesting that the crowd has no influence on things like that? Crowds have the potential to sway close calls.

Porkchop.sixpack · Oct 11, 2009

******** holding call on Stallworth. I told everyone that I was going to have to see that one again because I didn't see a hold. Apparently, hearing my request, they replayed it. No hold. Everyone booed. And then we fumbled.

Todd4State · Oct 11, 2009

in a press conference, the school/coach can be fined. No matter how bad the officiating was, you just can't do it. I think the only thing the school can do is file a complaint with the SEC, but even that's not going to do anything. And yes, I could see Mullen being fined or at least warned for compaining about the LOS call, even though it's legit.

I would have to say, that this one is on the coaches up in the press box. I honestly had no idea whether Lee went across the LOS or not until now from my vantage point. But the coaches have TV's and things like that where they can review that sort of thing and tell Dan to challenge it.

And as far as replaying things, if a call is under review, it can not be played on the scoreboard until after the call is reviewed and made.

dawgstudent · Oct 11, 2009

[No message]

AssEndDawg · Oct 11, 2009

Dog in the Know said:
at the top of the screen, just above the MISS, is that the yardage marker signaling the line of scrimmage in orange or is that the down marker? The TV line is not the exact line and it looks to me he is over the line where the orange marker is located. Saying that, I hope the orange marker is the down marker.

The orange marker you see at the 30 is the chain. So, that is the start of the 10 yard mark. You can see it is 4th and 9 which is why the line of scrimmage is roughly one yard in front of the orange marker on the sideline. Considering that the entire body must be over for it to be an illegal forward pass there is absolutely no doubt that it is not only a blown call, but one of the worst blown calls I've ever seen in my life. The ref that calls this is supposed to be standing at the line of scrimmage and he knows the entire body must be over. Not only is no part of his body over there is no part that is even within a foot of the line.

I'm not usually down for the refs cheating screams but in this case I fully believe the CUSA refs were pulling for a CUSA win. There is absolutely no defense of that BS call.

Jack At Shelter · Oct 11, 2009

It seems that if you wanted to a challenge a play, you obviously had a problem with the call made by the officials. I think it's rather silly to fine a coach for complaining after a game while the ability to challenge a play during the game is accepted.

slickdawg · Oct 11, 2009

it didn't cost us the game.

four 17ing turnovers cost us the game.

Porkchop.sixpack · Oct 11, 2009

Sure, if we had never turned over the ball, we would have won.

However, two calls cost us that game. Two horrible ******** calls:
* The bad pass call
* The hold on Stallworth

One of those called back a touchdown. The other would have put us 1st and goal on the 3, and we would have either fumbled or scored a touchdown. If the refs would not have blown those two calls, we could have fumbled and still won the game.

Uncle Leo · Oct 11, 2009

Todd4State said:
I would have to say, that this one is on the coaches up in the press box. I honestly had no idea whether Lee went across the LOS or not until now from my vantage point. But the coaches have TV's and things like that where they can review that sort of thing and tell Dan to challenge it.

That sort of thing isn't allowed.

Check page FR-39 in the rule book:

Television replay or monitor equipment is prohibited at the sidelines, press box or other locations within the playing enclosure for coaching purposes during the game.

dawgstudent · Oct 11, 2009

we are ahead by 2 scores. It changes the whole complexity of the game.

Porkchop.sixpack · Oct 11, 2009

But, what about the bastard official, when Dan asked if they looked at it, and the ref says "Coach, it wasn't even close."

As it turns out, that bastard was correct. It wasn't even close.

Porkchop.sixpack · Oct 11, 2009

that complex to start with.

Uncle Leo · Oct 11, 2009

Mullen said he asked the official on our sideline and was told they'd take a look at it upstairs, but in his eyes it wasn't even close. I'm not sure what Mullen's supposed to do there. He said he didn't have a good angle to see where Lee was. We can say now after seeing frame-by-frame images and slow motion that he should have challenged it. But the fact of the matter is that there is an official whose freaking JOB is to look at that, and he had more than enough time (remember, there was a change of possession here) to see that it was close enough to take a second look, and he failed.

In the post game conference, Mullen said he trusted the replay official, whose job it is to look at these things. I guess the lesson to be learned here is that you can't trust incompetence.

He's a rookie head coach. He's going to make mistakes. Unlike the last coach, I'm confident in his ability to learn from and correct them.

Todd4State · Oct 11, 2009

Don't they have monitors in the NFL so they can decide this sort of thing?

So, a coach has to rely on an official who <17> it up to start with on whether or not to challenge a call? Ridiculous. What's the official going to say? "Hey, uh..Dan...you mught want to challenge this. I didn't get a real good look at that."

Heaven forbid that there should be quality officiating in the NCAA.

Porkchop.sixpack · Oct 11, 2009

And, apparently, that's pretty much what happened. The dubmass ref says it wasn't even close. Dan figures they are reviewing it, and takes the guy at his word.

Maybe that rule is something they compromised on in order to permit challenges. But, that is a horrible rule.

Picture evidence of the blown illegal forward pass

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