Pike Really Has to Go...

[Scarlet Shack]

Johnny Dawkins at UCF has less money than Pike. It’s about adapting. Is more money better. Sure. But we heard how this was his lunch pail team. They’ll scrap it out in rock fights. Well their defense is beyond terrible. That’s his fortay. He says he needs a rim protector for his style but can’t afford one. So, ADAPT. Don’t be inflexible and keep using it as an excuse.

C’mon man …you smarter than that

I’m not happy about the current state of baskerball …and you know that I’ve been critical of the high school recruiting from the classes of 2021-2023 that put us in this home

to play defense….it requires athletes
and either quickness or size (or preferable both )
Maybe the guys who played our rock fights in the past were brick layers as shooters , but they were far more atheltic and had far more size than we have

athletes , even ones thsr aren’t great shooters, cost NIL

This roster is not built for defense …it was built on NIL to get the best of what we could get for what little we had .

We will have answers shortly …pike will have the chance to do something to the roster and , supposedly , more next year …..

if he gets competitive resources …then we should expect a competitive product….

Pike drives me nuts on a number of things …but let’s not dismiss that SOME of them is because we don’t have the horses ….

 

[dark_check]

C’mon man …you smarter than that

I’m not happy about the current state of baskerball …and you know that I’ve been critical of the high school recruiting from the classes of 2021-2023 that put us in this home

to play defense….it requires athletes
and either quickness or size (or preferable both )
Maybe the guys who played our rock fights in the past were brick layers as shooters , but they were far more atheltic and had far more size than we have

athletes , even ones thsr aren’t great shooters, cost NIL

This roster is not built for defense …it was built on NIL to get the best of what we could get for what little we had .

We will have answers shortly …pike will have the chance to do something to the roster and , supposedly , more next year …..

if he gets competitive resources …then we should expect a competitive product….

Pike drives me nuts on a number of things …but let’s not dismiss that SOME of them is because we don’t have the horses ….

I’m smarter than what? Observing that teams with less NiL than Pike are doing better than we are?

 

[Scarlet Shack]

You can have money to buy it. But if the coach can't identify it and can't coach up what he stumbles on and can't run any functional offense, etc etc. It's not just NI

I’m smarter than what? Observing that teams with less NiL than Pike are doing better than we are?

C’mon ….of course there are a SMALL number of teams doing better than us with less NIL.

But you know it’s a percentage game …most of the teams that win , have more spent on their roster

On an individual case basis , sure there are some teams that spend a lot that screw it up, and there are some teams that occasionally , like UCF, out scout the other teams for a roster that defies the odds

guess what that roster will cost UCF next year ???

asking any coach to constantly have to win with less resources than your competition …is just not realistic

If a coach can consistently win with less resources than its competition …they usually get a big job with the resources …..

look …I hear what your saying , and pike has a lot to reprove as a coach , but to expect us to regularly win without the resources that our competition , isn’t realistic for pike or any coach …..

 

[dark_check]

C’mon ….of course there are a SMALL number of teams doing better than us with less NIL.

But you know it’s a percentage game …most of the teams that win , have more spent on their roster

On an individual case basis , sure there are some teams that spend a lot that screw it up, and there are some teams that occasionally , like UCF, out scout the other teams for a roster that defies the odds

guess what that roster will cost UCF next year ???

asking any coach to constantly have to win with less resources than your competition …is just not realistic

If a coach can consistently win with less resources than its competition …they usually get a big job with the resources …..

look …I hear what your saying , and pike has a lot to reprove as a coach , but to expect us to regularly win without the resources that our competition , isn’t realistic for pike or any coach …..

My third and fourth sentences were literally “is more money better. Sure”. I hear you. My only point is there are some doing more with less but Pike failed with the last few recruiting classes before Covid and then did less with less multiple years during NIL

 

[bac2therac]

My third and fourth sentences were literally “is more money better. Sure”. I hear you. My only point is there are some doing more with less but Pike failed with the last few recruiting classes before Covid and then did less with less multiple years during NIL

this...alot of people are actually moving timeline way forward when it wasnt an issue..namely the mag injury year and the following year it just started out players were not making that much and they were only bolting if they were 5th year players.

 

[bac2therac]

A better example (probably the only one truly worth grasping on for hope) is our ranking / record / metrics after the Michigan State game the following year. That team, before it lost Mag for the season, is the best spun vision of what a Pike coached team’s maximum potential could be.

I’m not saying he’ll succeed, but that’s the vision and goal. We don’t have a Cam Spencer but then, that team didn’t have anyone who could score the snot out of the ball like Tariq Francis. What that team had was defense. Can we go into the portal and fix the D?

good luck getting players to committ to defense in the nil world..they just wont. Pike couldnt force 2 nba players to do it, they simply werent going to do it as they cashed the check. The game has changed rapidly. There are very little defensive minded coaches left that are having success.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

C’mon ….of course there are a SMALL number of teams doing better than us with less NIL.

But you know it’s a percentage game …most of the teams that win , have more spent on their roster

On an individual case basis , sure there are some teams that spend a lot that screw it up, and there are some teams that occasionally , like UCF, out scout the other teams for a roster that defies the odds

guess what that roster will cost UCF next year ???

asking any coach to constantly have to win with less resources than your competition …is just not realistic

If a coach can consistently win with less resources than its competition …they usually get a big job with the resources …..

look …I hear what your saying , and pike has a lot to reprove as a coach , but to expect us to regularly win without the resources that our competition , isn’t realistic for pike or any coach …..

You know this crowd always goes straight to the outlier because it's the lazy way to say see look at them why aren't we like them...lol.

 

[Mholinko]

My third and fourth sentences were literally “is more money better. Sure”. I hear you. My only point is there are some doing more with less but Pike failed with the last few recruiting classes before Covid and then did less with less multiple years during NIL

Agree with you on this…. Within the confines of our own league the schools with a funding issue are the ones we are sitting with though

nobody is doing more with less in the land of the giants of college athletics

the top of the standings is rich with resources and the middle is as well … though to varying degrees the middle is probably unhappy with results based on that

I don’t think there are many if any examples other than Dawkins of schools succeeding with beer budgets

that being said I don’t want to solve the problem by giving pike a wad of cash to blow

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

good luck getting players to committ to defense in the nil world..they just wont. Pike couldnt force 2 nba players to do it, they simply werent going to do it as they cashed the check. The game has changed rapidly. There are very little defensive minded coaches left that are having success.

It had nothing to do with the money. He wasn’t going to get NBA star one mad dones to focus on D. He needed to recruit complements who would play D around them and went after completely the wrong types of kids. The NCAA is filled with kids who are good defenders but not that efficient at scoring. That’s what we need to look at. The guards we have are willing defenders and have gotten better. They aren’t the reason the D stinks. I can’t put my finger on what Grant’s issue is. He’s one of the worst defensive forwards I remember playing for Pike at Rutgers.

 

[Bob Chaewsky_rivals]

Rutgers is what the second least desirable spot in the big ten per coaches surveys? Some may dismiss that but that’s the perception. Add to that firing the coach that brought Rutgers the best 3 to 4 year span in their woeful history after he couldn’t succeed with no money is not the way to attract an up and comer. People have options. Giving him a year with mid tier nil is will be viewed as reasonable by prospective coaches. That’s important if when Rutgers moves on.

You should try learning something about Rutgers basketball history before you speak - "the best 3 to 4 year span in their woeful history"? From 1973 to 1977 Tom Young was 89-27 with two NIT appearances and two NCAA tournament appearances, one of them a final four appearance with 31-2 record. Pikiel couldn't shine Young's shoes.

 

[Bob Chaewsky_rivals]

Maryland coach said this about Coach Pikiell after yesterday's game: "From a tactical standpoint, I am not the coach that he is. I have great respect for who he is, personally and professionally."

He's not helping your cause (in this thread), ha ha...

One sh&tty coach praising another sh&tty coach.

 

[Mholinko]

One sh&tty coach praising another sh&tty coach.

Lots of strange hate for buzz Williams

He’s done a lot more than most coaches in the league

2 of his stops were football schools

Rutgers fans would kill for the stretch he has had the last 15 years

 

[bethlehemfan]

You should try learning something about Rutgers basketball history before you speak - "the best 3 to 4 year span in their woeful history"? From 1973 to 1977 Tom Young was 89-27 with two NIT appearances and two NCAA tournament appearances, one of them a final four appearance with 31-2 record. Pikiel couldn't shine Young's shoes.

I probably should have prefaced by saying in the modern era ie post big east as I wouldn’t want to denigrate those teams. Tom Young was a good coach 50 years ago but that was a different time against different competition and ultimately he left because he knew he couldn’t succeed at rutgers any more. Eastern basketball had not really arrived yet during that run. We didn’t play anyone back in those days other than an occasional decent Syracuse or St. John’s and a rare game against a traditional power which we normally lost. (Cinininnati in msg I believe was an exception. I enjoyed that game). We beat one ranked team in the final four run (familiar st John’s) and when we played against someone with a pulse we got crushed. We lost in the first round of both nit appearances and the 1975 first round game against Louisville which I listened to on the radio. I was at the st bonny game in Jadwin. Young inherited Dabney and Sellers btw. Once the big east came about the dye was cast. Young inherited a good situation against weak competition. Pike inherited a all time mess against elite competition.

 

[Ridge 22]

It had nothing to do with the money. He wasn’t going to get NBA star one mad dones to focus on D.

What exactly did he get them to focus on then? It sure as hell wasn't offense either. Ace's offense consisted of contested off-balance low % mid-range jumpers while the rest of the team stood around

 

[Bob Chaewsky_rivals]

I probably should have prefaced by saying in the modern era ie post big east as I wouldn’t want to denigrate those teams. Tom Young was a good coach 50 years ago but that was a different time against different competition and ultimately he left because he knew he couldn’t succeed at rutgers any more. Eastern basketball had not really arrived yet during that run. We didn’t play anyone back in those days other than an occasional decent Syracuse or St. John’s and a rare game against a traditional power which we normally lost. (Cinininnati in msg I believe was an exception. I enjoyed that game). We beat one ranked team in the final four run (familiar st John’s) and when we played against someone with a pulse we got crushed. We lost in the first round of both nit appearances and the 1975 first round game against Louisville which I listened to on the radio. I was at the st bonny game in Jadwin. Young inherited Dabney and Sellers btw. Once the big east came about the dye was cast. Young inherited a good situation against weak competition. Pike inherited a all time mess against elite competition.

Relatively speaking the schedule in 1976 was pretty good. Many of the eastern teams were better then than they are now - St. Bonaventure, Princeton, Penn, LIU, Manhattan, Temple and Boston College - Princeton and St. Bonaventure way better. OVERALL and relative to today, northeastern basketball was better back then than it is today compared to the rest of the country. St John's and SHU were good back then. We also beat UCONN, Syracuse, West Virginia, Georgia Tech., Pitt and Purdue. Regardless, there is no comparison between Young and Pike. Also, Pike's inherited first class which everyone likes to talk about as being so bad had as much talent as most of Pikiel's teams and might have destroyed this year's RU team - Corey Sanders, DeShawn Freeman, Mike Williams, CJ Gettys, Isa Thiam and Eugene Omoruyi. It's very possible that none of this year's players would have even started on that team and that team was 3-14 in the conference - so was the next year's team. What a great recruiter? Looking back, our results back then might have had as much to do with coaching as they do today. We were just so used to being bad back then. Pike's a slouch who was successful with a small group of players over 10 years.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Relatively speaking the schedule in 1976 was pretty good. Many of the eastern teams were better then than they are now - St. Bonaventure, Princeton, Penn, LIU, Manhattan, Temple and Boston College - Princeton and St. Bonaventure way better. OVERALL and relative to today, northeastern basketball was better back then than it is today compared to the rest of the country. St John's and SHU were good back then. We also beat UCONN, Syracuse, West Virginia, Georgia Tech., Pitt and Purdue. Regardless, there is no comparison between Young and Pike. Also, Pike's inherited first class which everyone likes to talk about as being so bad had as much talent as most of Pikiel's teams and might have destroyed this year's RU team - Corey Sanders, DeShawn Freeman, Mike Williams, CJ Gettys, Isa Thiam and Eugene Omoruyi. It's very possible that none of this year's players would have even started on that team and that team was 3-14 in the conference - so was the next year's team. What a great recruiter? Looking back, our results back then might have had as much to do with coaching as they do today. We were just so used to being bad back then. Pike's a slouch who was successful with a small group of players over 10 years.

You know an interesting thing about that 75/76 team Bob that I am sure you recall and to Tim young and bill foster and I suppose dick vitales credit is the starting five I believe all had at least a cup of coffee in the nba. I don’t recall Dabney actually playing too much and sellers was a tweener although a great college player, but Copeland Bailey and Jordan all had nice nba careers. Maybe if that team played a tougher schedule they would have done better in that final four.

 

[Bob Chaewsky_rivals]

You know an interesting thing about that 75/76 team Bob that I am sure you recall and to Tim young and bill foster and I suppose dick vitales credit is the starting five I believe all had at least a cup of coffee in the nba. I don’t recall Dabney actually playing too much and sellers was a tweener although a great college player, but Copeland Bailey and Jordan all had nice nba careers. Maybe if that team played a tougher schedule they would have done better in that final four.

I think Dabney might have had a cup of coffee with the Celtics.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

What exactly did he get them to focus on then? It sure as hell wasn't offense either. Ace's offense consisted of contested off-balance low % mid-range jumpers while the rest of the team stood around

He was out of his league with those 2 for sure. Let them do what they wanted. He recruited other guys who were a threat to score so that the 2 of them would be sure to “get theirs” and not get doubled constantly. But the offense wasn’t good enough to overcome how bad the D was. It was a disaster.

 

[Ridge 22]

He was out of his league with those 2 for sure. Let them do what they wanted. He recruited other guys who were a threat to score so that the 2 of them would be sure to “get theirs” and not get doubled constantly. But the offense wasn’t good enough to overcome how bad the D was. It was a disaster.

You lost me at 'he recruited other guys who were a threat to score'......

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

You lost me at 'he recruited other guys who were a threat to score'......

That was what he thought he was doing - wasn’t it? Acuff 21 ppg, Jordan 17 ppg, PJ double digits and efficient from 3, Martini efficient from 3. These weren’t guys you could leave unguarded which is why Dylan and Ace succeeded in “getting theirs” in a big way. But everything else about our game sucked. Not one kid played D.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

You lost me at 'he recruited other guys who were a threat to score'......

In my opinion, our backcourt D isnt great but it’s better this year than it was last year. The frontcourt is historically bad at everything which is a big reason why we stink.

If Ace Bailey stuck around for another year, this team would be MUCH better on both ends and Ace was no great shakes on D either but he would’ve been a huge upgrade over everyone we currently have. Think of what was brought in to replace him and even Martini on frontcourt D. I’d argue Buchanan was more of replacement for J Will on the defensive end (jack of all trades type). We didn’t replace Ace and Martini. That’s the problem. We added zeros - Fall, Ware, Denis and don’t get much from Nwuli.

 

[Ridge 22]

That was what he thought he was doing - wasn’t it? Acuff 21 ppg, Jordan 17 ppg, PJ double digits and efficient from 3, Martini efficient from 3. These weren’t guys you could leave unguarded which is why Dylan and Ace succeeded in “getting theirs” in a big way. But everything else about our game sucked. Not one kid played D.

End of the day, he brought these kids in. The fact that none of them could actually play at this level just shows how bad he is at talent evaluation. That is my concern with giving him more NIL and thinking that will turn things around. He still can't evaluate talent, he still wont run an offense, etc etc.

 

[Ridge 22]

In my opinion, our backcourt D isnt great but it’s better this year than it was last year. The frontcourt is historically bad at everything which is a big reason why we stink.

If Ace Bailey stuck around for another year, this team would be MUCH better on both ends and Ace was no great shakes on D either but he would’ve been a huge upgrade over everyone we currently have. Think of what was brought in to replace him and even Martini on frontcourt D. I’d argue Buchanan was more of replacement for J Will on the defensive end (jack of all trades type). We didn’t replace Ace and Martini. That’s the problem. We added zeros - Fall, Ware, Denis and don’t get much from Nwuli.

Lets stick with real life. Ace was never coming back. You can't build imaginary teams and say they would have been great and expect to be taken seriously. And everything else you said is on Pike too.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

 

[MADHAT1]

one HC a year plan
Pay off one, start planing next buyout if Pike's team doesn't make the Tourney .

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Lets stick with real life. Ace was never coming back. You can't build imaginary teams and say they would have been great and expect to be taken seriously. And everything else you said is on Pike too.

My point was only that the front court is the big problem right now and it’s therefore hard to accurately assess the potential of the guards. It’s much easier to defend backcourt players when there is zero threat of a frontcourt hurting you.