Play Prescot and last year's offensive scheme and we finish 9-3...

o_Sevendawg

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
24
0
0
Give Tyler all the credit in the world for a helluva start, but with our remaining opposition we can not afford another offensive show like today. We needed to answer TAM tit for tat and didn't. Our run option and short to intermediate passing game with Dak is our only option to salvage season. I have no idea what to do on D.
 

DerHntr

All-Conference
Sep 18, 2007
15,570
2,024
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So the back up QB is the answer.

/some things at MSU will always be the same
//sadly I can't disagree
 
Sep 1, 2011
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I was thinking the same thing a moment ago. Very similar to Relf vs. OM in 2009, just let him do what he can do...plus I think Dak passes better than Relf. At least it makes the D respect a running QB. Tyler would be great in a prostyle system with a good line. No telling what Tyler could do with Bama. Also, I do not understand all the no back sets when we don't have to.
 
Sep 1, 2011
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I don't think Prescott is the better QB necessarily, but he does make a ...

defense have to think about some things that Russell simply cannot do. I think Russell's ability is hampered by ineffective receivers and mediocre pass blocking against tough teams.
 

Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
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So the back up QB is the answer.

/some things at MSU will always be the same
//sadly I can't disagree

It's more of a philosophy thing...we would be better off running the Spread Option with Dak, Robinson, Perkins, and crew than we would with Tyler trying to throw to WR's that can't get open vs decent defenses. Especially the way we are doing things right now
 

o_Sevendawg

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
24
0
0
Not saying Dak is the better Qb...

But you can't Chang philosophy with TR. With Dak the play action and rollout will be more effective. Unless we really change our play calls on O, the struggle will continue. With a running QB the spread option is what got our program to where it is today. We have gone away from that.
 

CadaverDawg

Redshirt
Dec 5, 2011
6,409
0
0
I disagree. I like Dak, but our OL is not at good as people are acting. The threat of a pass is making them look better, but if we went to a heavy running attack, I think we would see our line get blown up pretty good. BUT, Dak is a far better passer than Relf it appears, so you guys may be right. They wouldn't be able to load up the box like teams did against Ralph.

I think I just talked myself into agreement while typing this post.
 

OleYeller

Redshirt
Aug 23, 2012
700
0
0
Bull ****. Our recievers are the worst in the conference. Can't get open. Either that or we have no one that can teach them how to get open. I suspect a little of both
 

jwbigcreek

Redshirt
Feb 26, 2008
1,080
0
36
Damn, you ain't as dumb as I thought you were (j/k). I agree wholeheartedly. Line up & run the 17n ball if our receivers can't get open (or if our OL can't protect Tyler forever). I got not problem with Tyler. But we got to change something. 13 17n points on A&M is embarrassing. Not so embarrassed they beat us, just that they beat us like a drum.
 

00Dawg

Senior
Nov 10, 2009
3,152
444
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Tyler wasn't frequently the problem today. The play-calling definitely was. I'll have to review to be sure, but I believe that every single time we went 5 wide or motioned the back out of the backfield, TAMU applied instant pressure. When we kept at least one back in, Tyler was completing passes at about a 75% clip.
We also ran on something like 8 of our first 10 second down plays. We were predictable when it mattered, and it cost us.

On D, we should've come out of the 3-4 when they went up 14-0. Josh Boyd is not a NT, and we're not a 3-4 team. A 4-2-5 would've served us better, particularly since every time Autry used an inside move, Johnny Football went right where Autry used to be. Reducing the area Denico was responsible for would've probably cut out at least 2 big runs, maybe 3.
It's time to sink or swim with our NFL CB's. Man up at least 75% of the time against LSU and make Mettenberger beat us deep.
 

DawginLA001

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
55
1
8
This wasn't on Tyler

The backup QB is always the most popular guy when things go wrong. Defense has forgotten how to tackle. We were unprepared and just going through the motions. Hell, seems the whole team has quit since they didn't beat bama!
 

NCDawg.sixpack

Redshirt
Aug 23, 2012
1,125
1
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I agree and with an ineffective running game, DL's tee off on Tyler. I don't blame Russell but with the OL we have, we need to do something different.
 

Singer

Redshirt
Nov 6, 2012
123
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Tyler is not the problem it's adjustments and blocking. He needs more time and needs to get rid of the ball a little quicker. Prescott should also be utilized a bit more to keep defenses guessing. And all us fans should have more faith and support instead of second guessing everything and everybody. Feed the heart, they are not playing with confidence, it's our responsibility to help with that
 

Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
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Tyler is not the problem it's adjustments and blocking. He needs more time and needs to get rid of the ball a little quicker. Prescott should also be utilized a bit more to keep defenses guessing. And all us fans should have more faith and support instead of second guessing everything and everybody. Feed the heart, they are not playing with confidence, it's our responsibility to help with that

Nobody is saying that Tyler is the main problem. What people are saying is that we would be better off if our offense was dependent on Dak and our RB's to carry the load instead of our WR's. We are much, much better at RB than we are at WR.
 
Aug 24, 2012
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I'm not convinced that we'll lose to OM and Ark with Tyler. We had two very bad games. Some of it was the timing of the bad plays. Some of it was scheme. Tyler did look awful against TAM. But Tyler has proven that he can lead this team and make big throws.He has even run well on occasion. The receivers have made some great plays too, especially Bumphis imo. I do think that Dak needs to be brought in more often, but the thought of just changing our whole offense and philosopy has 0-3 written on it in flashing neon. I'd also worry about Tyler transferring if we pulled a stunt like that.
 

Coach 57

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
374
0
0
Reasons why we should play Dak

1.) Dak will slow down the game (please let me elaborate). We knew going into this year that Tyler was going to be THE guy but what some people still seem to not understand is that when you go to an offense like we currently have you are more prone to 3 and outs based on a number of reasons (bad blocking, dropped balls, ints, tipped passes etc etc). Don't be fooled, alot of reasons we were (as some have said) "more competitive" Vs. LSU, Bama and others is because we grinded the game out to the last few possessions because we were more physical based on the style of offense we ran with the 1's Vs. 1's. We are not that type of team anymore. So it takes away our defenses physicallity when you do that style change. With Dak in there I honesty think Les & Dan are in more of a comfort zone calling plays th that type of personnel on the field. Also (and I don't care what he says) *** is learning on the fly with the personnel he now has field (i.e. Tyler). Less possessions might equate to closer contested games.

2.) Rhythm. I think what is wrong with our offense right now is we are a little "off" all over the place. The play calls are a little off because they're out of their comfort zone with Tyler. We are running alt of basic to intermediate routes with our WRs and honestly its gotten Perk out of his groove as well. If we are going to run basic routes w/ our WRs then we need to stretch the middle of the field w/ our TEs. We started doing this early in the yr we have gone away from it. Why? And if the answer to that question isn't something "fixable" w/ this personnel then CHANGE the personnel. This works on O or D.

3.) It's what we're "built" to do. No synopsis of this point is needed. Look at the roster and tell me different.
 

Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
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I'm not convinced that we'll lose to OM and Ark with Tyler. We had two very bad games. Some of it was the timing of the bad plays. Some of it was scheme. Tyler did look awful against TAM. But Tyler has proven that he can lead this team and make big throws.He has even run well on occasion. The receivers have made some great plays too, especially Bumphis imo. I do think that Dak needs to be brought in more often, but the thought of just changing our whole offense and philosopy has 0-3 written on it in flashing neon. I'd also worry about Tyler transferring if we pulled a stunt like that.

there is nowhere for Tyler to go except Division II...I doubt he goes to Delta State
 

bonedaddy401

Redshirt
Aug 3, 2012
4,663
22
38
And that helps our defense how? Yea lets take the guy who is about to break all of our schools passing records out and sit him his 5th year also. Back up QB and Miss State. A love affair.
 

Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
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And that helps our defense how? Yea lets take the guy who is about to break all of our schools passing records out and sit him his 5th year also. Back up QB and Miss State. A love affair.

two things:

1. Our schools passing records are not even average seasons for most schools

2. Almost all of our best seasons passing-wise were set during losing seasons. That should tell you alot.
 

Singer

Redshirt
Nov 6, 2012
123
0
0
two things:

1. Our schools passing records are not even average seasons for most schools

2. Almost all of our best seasons passing-wise were set during losing seasons. That should tell you alot.
Could it be everyone is a little right? I think so. Ordinarily 2 QB systems I'm not a fan of however Tyler and Dak support one another and work well together. Let's capitalize on the experience of Tyler and the hunger and tools Dak brings to the table.
 

Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
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Could it be everyone is a little right? I think so. Ordinarily 2 QB systems I'm not a fan of however Tyler and Dak support one another and work well together. Let's capitalize on the experience of Tyler and the hunger and tools Dak brings to the table.

I certainly think we need to play both. But if you look at offensive personnel objectively, there is no way you would come to the opinion that we need to count on our WR's more than we should Dak and the RB's. It's really not even close.
 

boatsandhoes

Sophomore
Sep 6, 2012
2,124
185
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I don't think we should give up on TR. However, I think it would be a good trick to pull against say OM when they prepare all week to defend the TR offense, and we pull a switcharoo/start Dak and grind them into salt with Perk/robinson/Dak/milton/griffin. They would likely be really unprepared for a total spread running game if we saved it for them. that said, three different running plays isn't going to work. Of course, as others have said you can throw a lot more with Dak than you ever could with Relf.
 

Coach 57

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
374
0
0
Have you ever played football? That's not a shot at you I'm just asking. Because if you faced a bruising/physical running attack in practice EVERYDAY it would galvanize you! But when you face a more finesse passing attack that runs "stretch" and counter just to keep the defense "honest". You WOULD in fact become "soft" up front. That's basic football. And understanding the basic concepts of competitive sports that you're only as good as the guy you are facing. It's been said on here that our defensive line cannot get pressure, if you believe that same statement do you not think it brings down our offensive line?
 

Singer

Redshirt
Nov 6, 2012
123
0
0
Have you ever played football? That's not a shot at you I'm just asking. Because if you faced a bruising/physical running attack in practice EVERYDAY it would galvanize you! But when you face a more finesse passing attack that runs "stretch" and counter just to keep the defense "honest". You WOULD in fact become "soft" up front. That's basic football. And understanding the basic concepts of competitive sports that you're only as good as the guy you are y. It's been said on here that our defensive line cannot get pressure, if you believe that same statement do you not think it brings down our offensive line?
Not sure if it was me you were addressing. But I agree with a lot of your philosophies. However I do think your only as good as your work ethic and heart. these things can take a mediocre player a long way. I've coached players that went on to the NFL and more talented players never finished college careers. Work ethic, faith and persistence is what elevates talent. But I do agree with your offensive philosophy.
 

tenureplan

Senior
Dec 3, 2008
8,307
922
113
Russell is not the reason we lost the last two games. We were outclassed vs Bama and outcoached vs A&M. It's not Russell's fault that we ran on every first down. When we got way behind against A&M and started throwing more, the offense started clicking.

There is no reason to think that Russell won't be successful against Arkansas' and Ole Miss' defenses. Sure Dak looked good in mop-up time versus Bama, but don't forget he was going against their 3rd stringers.
 

Singer

Redshirt
Nov 6, 2012
123
0
0
Russell is not the reason we lost the last two games. We were outclassed vs Bama and outcoached vs A&M. It's not Russell's fault that we ran on every first down. When we got way behind against A&M and started throwing more, the offense started clicking.

There is no reason to think that Russell won't be successful against Arkansas' and Ole Miss' defenses. Sure Dak looked good in mop-up time versus Bama, but don't forget he was going against their 3rd stringers.
I don't see anyone blaming Tyler everyone supports him. Read all the post. But Dak played 2nd team and 3rd team Bama with 2nd 3rd team state. And 2nd & 3rd team Bama are all 4 and 5 star prospect who would start at even most sec teams. Dak has proven himself and I think even Tyler would agree.
 

Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
0
Russell is not the reason we lost the last two games. We were outclassed vs Bama and outcoached vs A&M. It's not Russell's fault that we ran on every first down. When we got way behind against A&M and started throwing more, the offense started clicking.

There is no reason to think that Russell won't be successful against Arkansas' and Ole Miss' defenses. Sure Dak looked good in mop-up time versus Bama, but don't forget he was going against their 3rd stringers.

Dak has looked good all year long. And we were playing our 2nd offense vs Bammer

Russell vs A&M on 1st down:

1st Q- 4 1st down throws- 2/3 for a robust 9 yards and a sack...2 1st down runs- 2 carries-13 yards

2nd Q- 0 1st down passes....4 runs for 3 yards

So we had 10 1st down plays in the 1st half...6 runs for 16 yards...4 passes for 9 yards plus a 6 yard sack...passing on 1st down got us a net of 3 yards...

Clearly, running on 1st down wasnt the problem in the 1st half, especially considering we didnt run on 1st down on either of the 1st two drives that resulted in punts and a 14-0 deficit.
 

GloryDawg

Heisman
Mar 3, 2005
17,898
12,273
113
We had this same discussion last season about replacing Relf with Russell. It was a little earlier in the season but we had it. The madness never ends does it. We are 7 and 2 and we will finish 9 and 3.
 

Coach 57

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
374
0
0
I never said we lost those games because of Tyler. I think he's had a nice season but i also think with the personnel we have accrued we have the potential to be better Vs these last 2-3 opponents with having Dak in there.
 
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Sutterkane

Redshirt
Jan 23, 2007
5,100
0
0
Here's some positives and negatives about Dak.

Dak is going to be pretty damn good for us I think. With that said, he's nowhere near ready to start.

In the passing game, Dak appears to be relatively accurate for a redshirt freshman. With that said, he's really got to work on his touch. Every 17ing throw comes out like it's on a rope. That's good for throws that need that, but you have to be able to throw a softer pass for a screen or a fade route. I've also seen nothing that shows me that he actually goes through a progression. The times I've watched him throw, it went to the primary receiver every time.

In the run game, Dak certainly knows how to run, avoid big hits, and get solid yards. Also has good speed. Probably faster than Relf from what I've seen. If we're going to run the zone read though, Dak needs to actually read the DE and not keep it for himself 90% of the time. I've seen too many times where he's been in the game and we've run the read play with the DE running right at him and he still pulls it out of the back's hands and we get a 5 yard loss.

All of this shows me that Dak isn't actually making real-time decisions and decides before the snap on what he's going to do. That will get you far in high school and against subpar defenses in college, but against a solid college defense, they will be able to shut you down and force some mistakes.

Dak will be good for us one day, and the way we use him now works, but if you think we'd be 9-3 with him starting, you're suffering from the usual MSU backup QB dreams.
 

Singer

Redshirt
Nov 6, 2012
123
0
0
Here's some positives and negatives about Dak.

Dak is going to be pretty damn good for us I think. With that said, he's nowhere near ready to start.

In the passing game, Dak appears to be relatively accurate for a redshirt freshman. With that said, he's really got to work on his touch. Every 17ing throw comes out like it's on a rope. That's good for throws that need that, but you have to be able to throw a softer pass for a screen or a fade route. I've also seen nothing that shows me that he actually goes through a progression. The times I've watched him throw, it went to the primary receiver every time.

In the run game, Dak certainly knows how to run, avoid big hits, and get solid yards. Also has good speed. Probably faster than Relf from what I've seen. If we're going to run the zone read though, Dak needs to actually read the DE and not keep it for himself 90% of the time. I've seen too many times where he's been in the game and we've run the read play with the DE running right at him and he still pulls it out of the back's hands and we get a 5 yard loss.

All of this shows me that Dak isn't actually making real-time decisions and decides before the snap on what he's going to do. That will get you far in high school and against subpar defenses in college, but against a solid college defense, they will be able to shut you down and force some mistakes.

Dak will be good for us one day, and the way we use him now works, but if you think we'd be 9-3 with him starting, you're suffering from the usual MSU backup QB dreams.

I must have been watching different games but I haven't seen Dak lose 5 yards more than twice all year and granted he has roped a couple he could have finessed a lil at the beginning of the year. But his percentages are pretty high and he has thrown to secondary receivers for first downs and touch downs, a couple with nice touch. He is very capable of starting.
 

Coach 57

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
374
0
0
Well I appreciate what your saying but as i said before him being QB reshapes our entire philosophy as a TEAM. When you practice against a guy that when he's in there he makes your entire team more physical. Which i think right now we lack. Again I'm not saying Tyler isn't good or hasn't done a good job but I may not know a whole lot about alot of things but I know football. And i know that based on our staf and personnel we WOULD be 9-3.