Anyone know how many teams each region will allow in the playoffs for the new cycle? Specifically, Class 4 Region D. I've searched high and low on VHSL website but to no avail.
Playoff format 2017-2019
- Thread starter VolNation85_rivals
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It's up to each region, not a VHSL edict.
Almost has to be a maximum of 8 teams. There are only three weeks allotted to produce a regional champion. If there is a formula that incorporates more than eight teams, it must be some of that new math people talk about.
That was my take as well but since I haven't heard or been able to find any info, I wasn't sure. Just for pure conversation, would you prefer 8 teams with no first round by for top two or 8 teams with top two seed receiving first round by?
That's an easy question for me personally, I HATE BYE WEEKS. Especially in the playoffs.
I think the rhythm of the weekly routine is critical.
I fail to see any value to the bye week during the regular season. If a game has to be postponed and can't be played before the next scheduled game, the chances of A). the bye week has not already pasted or, B). both teams have the same bye week are astronomical. For those that say it gives a team a chance to heal. Huh? What about the schools that don't start playing until the second available Friday. What are they healing from? Practice?
I see absolutely no purpose for a regular season bye week. Why not add another round of playoffs and make the date worthwhile. Or just eliminate the open week.
Here is a question for you. There are a couple of Regions that don't have 8 schools that have a football program, or a football program eligible for the playoffs. How many teams make the playoffs, and how do you play down to a Regional Champion? Four play to two, two play to one, and either have the open week after the regular season, or the week before the State Semi-finals?
I could be off base on this, but I've been following playoffs in many sports for many, many years (as most of us have), and I don't think there is any eight-team single elimination format that allows for two teams getting byes. It wouldn't work out mathematically. Two teams sit out, so the other six play among themselves.That would yield three winners. Add the two bye teams, and you still have five teams left. Odd numbers do not compute.
If you had six teams, two would get first-round byes. That used to be the case in several regions, such as old Region IV, Division 4. In a seven-team bracket, only the top seed would get a bye. In a bracket with five teams, the fourth and fifth seeds would face each other in the first round, while the top three seeds would be off. Those five- and seven-team brackets usually only happen in basketball. I'm not sure I ever remember that occurring in the VHSL football playoffs - in the old regions, it was always four, then expanded to either six or eight.
For my part, I think six is the perfect number of playoff teams in a twelve-school region, such as 4D. Four is a bit too exclusive, while letting in two-thirds of the schools seems like too many. However, with six you have byes, which do have some cons attached. So, I'm good with saying eight teams in football for all regions, across the board.
DP - again, I could very well be mistaken, but I've always thought the primary reason for the open week's existence is to make the scheduling work out. That is, I think that the schedule-makers need that extra week to get everything to work out to fit in ten (or twelve, or sixteen) games for all teams. If I'm operating under a misconception there, someone please let me know. Also, for those regions that don't have eight football-playing schools, I would guess they'll just use a single-elimination format for the appropriate number of teams. In which case, byes will have to happen, if seven, six, or five teams are involved.
I think the value of the open week - by my understanding, it's only a "bye" if it's during the playoffs - usually depends upon when it falls, and how banged up a team is at the time. As you say, having an open week in week one of the season is nigh on to useless. However, if a team is anxiously awaiting the return of two or three much-needed starters for the playoffs, a nice week off in week eight or nine can be a boon.
For many years, Salem's open week fell right in the middle of the season, following five non-district games, and preceding the five district contests. That seemed rather logical, at least, but of course, it couldn't work out that way for every team. Then two years ago, the open week was moved to week two. We waited all off-season for football to return, so we had one game and then - BAM! Wait two more weeks. It was torture. Last year, however, having that week off right after the Amherst County debacle was a blessing, IMO. Sorely-needed time to regroup and refocus. For the team, not so much for us slobs up in the stands.
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It is up to each region on how they want their playoff structure but I was told about a month ago by a friend within the VHSL that when the VHSL handbook for the coming year was released, it would have the playoff structure in there for each. I believe it's supposed to be this month but I'm honestly not sure.
Call me crazy, but I preferred the previous system with 16 in each side of state. I loved playing new teams, in the old Region format, for example, in Region B of 2A you had juggernauts each year. I hate the idea of the top 2-3 teams in the state being from same geographic area and then not advancing far. For example, in most recent system in 2011, you had a district (James River District) that produced Goochland (state finalist) Amelia (state final four) Buckingham (top offense in 2A all time for many years according to VHSL reference) and Central Lunenburg (state final four) imagine a region where a bunch of juggernauts fight to final four berth and the region right next door (A-B or C-D) has a softer route. For 4A your Region D is loaded while others have easier road
I'm on the same page DP. I hate the playoff bye week as well. The only reason I even see any purpose for it is to serve as a sort of reward for being the best team during the regular season. I know the ultimate goal is to win a state championship but, the regular season is important too, especially when it comes to seeding for playoffs. Even with that being said, I'd rather not have the bye week, makes for more drama.
As far as your question, I don't know the best answer but I would say allow as many teams that are eligible. If six teams are eligible give the top two a bye then, four play to two, two play to one.
Thanks for correcting me, I realized it after I posted it. Math isn't my strong suit, I'm more of a history guy.
I know it will never happen for whatever crazy reason the VHSL comes up with but, I would love to see VHSL have football playoffs similar to Georgia. They have regions but there only for seeding purposes. They have 8 regions so they only take the top 4 from each region. They then cross bracket from the beginning of the playoffs based on seeding. For example, the #1 seed in region 1 plays #4 seed in region 3 and vice versa. The match-ups for the rest of the rounds are determined by process of elimination via the bracket style tournament. The same could be done in Virginia just with 4 regions instead of 8. Region A #1 seed would play region B #8 seed in the first round and vice versa. The same for regions C & D. Still 32 teams across the state, still 5 rounds but, it solves the problem of one region having the better teams and eliminating each other early. And this format determines a true state champion. Even if the two best teams in the state are in the same region, they wouldn't meet until the state semifinals or championship because of cross bracketing from the beginning
Just my two cents.
Just my two cents.
Yeah, I liked that too. And I guess in essesence, that is what we will have with the new format. The top 8 in each of four Regions. Meaning 16 on each side of the state.
The problem as you know Vol, was the attendance, (translated, means revenue), at many of the games. Back when #16 traveled to # 1, and so forth, the attendance was horrible at many, if not most, of the early games. And let's face it, even in high school ball, money is a huge factor.
I think, if they will just leave this new format alone for a few years, you will see attendance numbers climb each season in the playoffs. Let's face it, many of the same schools will be in the regional playoffs year after year. And after you play a team a couple of times, somebody is looking for revenge. If Dinwiddie makes the playoffs, don't you just know that Lafayette, Courtland, Monacan, Lake Taylor, etc. want another crack at the Generals?
This type of thing will build some interest over time, and result in more fans making the trip. I really think it would be counter-productive to the attendance if they chose to start rotating regional pairings. Same is true about any kind of cross bracketing. (Personally, I love traveling, and new matchups. But I appreciate that economics just has to be considered.)
Glad you brought up your math skills, you were $20 short on that money you owed me!!!Thanks for correcting me, I realized it after I posted it. Math isn't my strong suit, I'm more of a history guy.
Thanks for correcting me, I realized it after I posted it. Math isn't my strong suit, I'm more of a history guy.
Same here. Just by plugging away at it, I almost made a final "A" in college calculus, which would have been one of the great academic upsets of all time.