Wheeler -14
Collins -13 in 18 minutes
Frederick -13
Ware -12 in 13 minutes
Collins -13 in 18 minutes
Frederick -13
Ware -12 in 13 minutes
Plus Minus
- Thread starter HalHR2500
- Start date
I know he gave up a putback going for a block but Ugo has to get Ware and Collins’ minutes. Our team needs guys that have something extraordinary that can change games. Fredrick was misused tonight and Wheeler…well that final 5 OT minutes is -9 for him.
The Ware and Collins numbers are extremely ridiculous
Kentucky (-9) for reference.
Dudes who played the majority of minutes will be impacted by the total.
Lineups and strangely killed us. Playing lineups (in regulation) of Oscar/Collins/Livingston and emphasizing forced drives and post killed the offense
Dudes who played the majority of minutes will be impacted by the total.
Lineups and strangely killed us. Playing lineups (in regulation) of Oscar/Collins/Livingston and emphasizing forced drives and post killed the offense
Ware and Collins should get as few minutes as possible!!
Collins floating around the perimeter is RIDICULOUS!!! Why doesn't Cal put him on the baseline???!!!!
Ware in the Post plays like he has a load of bricks tied to his back!! When your as big as he is, you MUST rebound and defend if you earn a scholarship to UK!!!
And Wheeler may have a good +/-, but he makes BONEHEADED decisions down the stretch of tight games which your PG CAN'T DO!!!
Collins floating around the perimeter is RIDICULOUS!!! Why doesn't Cal put him on the baseline???!!!!
Ware in the Post plays like he has a load of bricks tied to his back!! When your as big as he is, you MUST rebound and defend if you earn a scholarship to UK!!!
And Wheeler may have a good +/-, but he makes BONEHEADED decisions down the stretch of tight games which your PG CAN'T DO!!!
This can’t be!!! It can’t be. Are you sure? The moderator and Duquesne coach said the opposite. Who do we believe?
Wait a minute. Is Michigan St better than Duquesne or the other way around? What’s going on here?
Is Duquesne better than the SEC or the other way around?
Is Duquesne better than the team in March trying to send us home or the other way around?
Collins should never see the court again this year. Give me Thiero, but no more Collins.
He was absolutely terrified out there.
He was absolutely terrified out there.
Toppin didn't look much better, I looked at this lineup before the season started and said we finally had a lineup with no holes in it, 3 games in the 4 spot looks lie a gaping hole
Collins, Ware, Frederick and Livingston combined for 10 points and 10 fouls...
Fredrick would have had 18 points if he played for Izzo
Damn they run some good sets and inbound plays
I’m so jealous
Damn they run some good sets and inbound plays
I’m so jealous
Collins rust cost the Cats but thats on Cals insistence to play 2 bigs
Too many times Collins and Ware on court together, a disaster offensively
Too many times Collins and Ware on court together, a disaster offensively
I put has much stock in plus minus as I do in WAR for baseball. A load of horse crap(for the most part)
It didn’t lie last night
Collins, Ware, Frederick and Wheeler were bad
Oscar and Wallace were decent
All others not very good
Collins, Ware, Frederick and Wheeler were bad
Oscar and Wallace were decent
All others not very good
No, not Collins. He offers that shot blocking too, plus some offense, and he can defend quicker guys.
As for Ware, I'm not disagreeing with you on that, other than to say that MSU C may have been to physical for Ugo and in that case maybe Ware was the better option (but usually Ugo will be).
+/- does not tell the whole story, it doesn't say who was IN WITH YOU, nor who the other team had in.
A simple eyeball test should tell most that Wheeler actually played pretty solid, not great, not bad. He probably had the 3rd best game for us. In order I would go Oscar, Wallace, Wheeler. Toppin, Fredrick, and Reeves all disappointed, and had just 1 of the 3 played just an average game, we win. Ware played as well as those 3. And Collins didn't do much either, but under the circumstances maybe we all give him a pass on this 1 game.
A simple eyeball test should tell most that Wheeler actually played pretty solid, not great, not bad. He probably had the 3rd best game for us. In order I would go Oscar, Wallace, Wheeler. Toppin, Fredrick, and Reeves all disappointed, and had just 1 of the 3 played just an average game, we win. Ware played as well as those 3. And Collins didn't do much either, but under the circumstances maybe we all give him a pass on this 1 game.
Last night probably wasn't the right night to bring Collins back. I think a lot of people felt that. Going through what he went through it probably would have been best to let him come back and get his legs back Thursday night in spurts. Then he'd have been more ready on Sunday. Cal shouldn't have been getting him back in to the swing of things in a game like that.
Just can’t believe Cal played him roughly 20 minutes. All while he wasn’t bringing anything positive at all. The lineup of Wheeler, Collins and Ware should get a coach fired on the spot. Absurd.
I’ve tried to tell several guys including IL this for a while. Wheeler is all about an eye test. Throw the stats out.
He is a horrible decision maker in tight games late. Yes you play him, you play him in moments. He cannot be the guy in the tournament there’s no way he will limit mistakes and stupid plays all the way to a championship. It’s not possible.
Absolutely. Also, he loves to add another defender and go baseline, as short as he is. One of the craziest things I’ve seen.
Yeah, those out of control drives into a crowded lane drive me insane. Far too often he gets caught with nowhere to go in those situations & either throws up a bad shot or throws the ball into the 3rd row. Ppl ragging on CJ & Reeves, apparently, don’t understand that shooters are gonna struggle most nights when there is little to no floor spacing bc of terrible lineup combinations with 3-4 other guys who can’t score to save their lives.
And, we rarely run them off screens or any type of motion, or, designed plays to get them open looks. Makes us & our shooters easy af to defend. Most of their perimeter shots are contested or rushed bc we do nothing, offensively, for 20-25 seconds & they’re forced to take bad shots in a race against the shot clock.
A freaking grade school coach would understand that playing Reeves & CJ together makes them both better & optimizes our offensive potential, making us very hard to defend bc they must be respected beyond the 3pt line & defenses can’t sag off of them, or, key on either one. And, teams can’t double the post, making everything easier for our bigs & penetrating guards. Those two were on the floor together for less than 4 minutes. And, the trio of CJ, Reeves & Wallace played an entire 1:39 together, or, something like that. STUPID doesn’t begin to describe it. Any coach with an ounce of sense & creativity would’ve ran MSU off the floor with our roster.
Not that it matters, but I also think you could get by with Wheeler if Toppin or Livingston could extend the defense at the 4. He's putting Wheeler in a position to fail.
Collins didn't look ready to me and with good reason. He had trouble with screens and Hauser scored a lot of his points against him. Physicality probably bothers him given his build, maybe MSU wasn't the game for him.
In reality he had the worst +/- when you factor out the last 6 or so points at the end when we gave up. His game in crucial times where we should have stretched it out. Other than maybe weak side defense he brings very little. Play Livingston at the 4 and Thiero at the backup 3. And no more Ware, develop Ugo in those 8-10 mins.
I'm sure his father's sudden and unexpected death barely 2 weeks before the game had nothing to do with it.
Like Collins, I unexpectedly lost my father early in my sophomore year of college. We all react to these kinds of things differently, but I can tell you that for me it was devastating and affected me for the rest of the school year and beyond.
I'm not sure why, but Collins is scared out there. You could see it plain as day. He's too busy trying to deal with his nerves to concentrate on what he is out there to do.
I have no idea why Cal left him in there so long. Livingston and Thiero should have gotten those minutes. Will they make mistakes, yup, sure will, but here's the difference, Livingston and Thiero are mentally tough, they would have played through the nerves. Collins can't get over that mental hurdle and it doesn’t help that he just lost his dad, so he's dealing with that too.
Cal gets an F- for how he managed that game. His lineups were nothing short of baffling. He tightened up just like the team did. The moment was too big for all of them, which is odd, because UK fans gave them a good advantage and he has a veteran team.
I'm sure it was devastated for Damion, so why, as the coach, would you put him in that game when he missed so much practice time, was dealing with his fathers death and 3, he was terrified to be out there?
As soon as Damion got in the game, you could clearly see his knees were knocking.
But Cal kept running him out there and Hauser kept hitting wide open threes on him.
This, in bold, is what had me wanting to choke the **** out of Cal after Tuesday's game...can that stubborn dumbazz not see what is so obvious to everyone else following the program? I truly believe that if anybody else in the world not named john calipari was coaching UK it would've been a solid 10-12 point win. Anybody...
Yeah, that stat is just unbelievable. Almost gotta pinch yourself to make sure you’re not dreaming. I’m curious as to how many minutes just Fredrick and Reeves were on the floor together. I suspect not many at all.
And, hell, if he really was so hell bent on going with two bigs, the obvious answer would’ve been Oscar and Ugonna if anything. Ugonna completely changes the whole entire complexion of the game. He couldn’t have guarded any worse in space than Collins and/or Ware.
It was like 3:30. I can’t remember the exact number but it was 100% less than 4 minutes. Inexcusable & mind numbingly DUMB under any circumstance. But, with a poor shooting PG like Wheeler, it’s just unfathomable. He wouldn’t play them together, but, thought it was a good idea to throw Collins & Ware out there with captain assist. The sad part is that many of us saw it coming all summer.
You can be in the minus but you can't be double-digit minus. Can't play when you're double-digit threat to SUCK.
Essentially you play Yenso instead of Ware. Ware should only be played when a game is double digit lead for Kentucky or emergency foul trouble. Ever. Losing players sit on the damn bench. Looking at you Wheeler. .....
You let Frederick keep playing for now..... doing what he does. Better better do it better.
Wheeler comes off the bench.... All season until that plus/ minus is ....plus all the time.
Don't buy coaches giving wheeler praise, they're just wanting you to use him alot and play into their damn hands..
Wheeler is a good player if you play him... less is more. Like never play Wheeler with 5 minutes to go either half. EVER. The other 30 minutes of the game he's fine to play.
Beware cuz you will lose a half if he is in the game with 2 minutes to go either half. Liability with a capital L.
Bad luck with a capital B.
I like good luck players like Darius Miller and Tyler Ulis. good things always happened for those players. Some are good luck some guys are bad luck.
Essentially you play Yenso instead of Ware. Ware should only be played when a game is double digit lead for Kentucky or emergency foul trouble. Ever. Losing players sit on the damn bench. Looking at you Wheeler. .....
You let Frederick keep playing for now..... doing what he does. Better better do it better.
Wheeler comes off the bench.... All season until that plus/ minus is ....plus all the time.
Don't buy coaches giving wheeler praise, they're just wanting you to use him alot and play into their damn hands..
Wheeler is a good player if you play him... less is more. Like never play Wheeler with 5 minutes to go either half. EVER. The other 30 minutes of the game he's fine to play.
Beware cuz you will lose a half if he is in the game with 2 minutes to go either half. Liability with a capital L.
Bad luck with a capital B.
I like good luck players like Darius Miller and Tyler Ulis. good things always happened for those players. Some are good luck some guys are bad luck.
Last edited:
I was saying even IF he had a good +/~ he still makes dumb decisions in close games There were games last year that he would have the best +/~ and we lost because he made stupid mistakes.
I should have been more clear with that point.
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