***Political Thread*** (Massive merge)

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argubs2

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

I still believe Romney was the only one who stood a chance against Hillary in a general election.

Bush is laughable as a candidate / competitor and will obviously be helped along to the nomination by the media. Rand is going to get absolutely skulltouched by the media from the get go and I do hope his brand survives it for another go in 20' or 24'.

Really hope some better options materialize in the next year but I'm not betting on it.
 

Bill Cosby

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?


I might really just give up my citizenship if the general election is Bush vs. Clinton.
 

kghighroller

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I would bet money that Jeb won't get the nomination. It is looking more likely Clinton won't either.
 

kghighroller

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by Big_Blue79:


Originally posted by kghighroller:

Originally posted by wkycatfan:

Israel doesn't seem very much like a middle east ally under this POTUS.
More like an enemy if you think about it. This administration has a history of attacking their political enemies though so this isn't surprising. Sending his campaign managers over there to help defeat Netanyahu (sp) is a bit over the top though.



What I cannot understand is why Obama continues to work with Iran on any sort of deal on anything. Iran has made no bones about wanting to kill Jews and wipe them off the face of the earth and we have allowed them to get very close to a nuclear weapon and they already have long range missiles. It baffles me really. Today we learn that Iran is plotting to assassinate Netanyahu's (sp) kids. Seriously think about it. Our president is vowing to veto any further sanctions against a murderous regime/sponsor of terrorists that wants to assassinate another presidents children, kill American's and wipe Israel off the face of the earth. It's weird to me that this isn't a bigger deal to the American people.

This post was edited on 1/29 12:22 PM by kghighroller
I'll play devil's advocate to offer up a possible counter argument. Are sanctions really effective? How would proposed sanctions (disclaimer: haven't seen any details of anything) deter Iran from 1) supporting Hezbollah, 2) gaining a nuke, 3) further developing long range missiles, and 4) not plot other outrageous acts? Sanctions sound nice, and it's doing something rather than nothing, but I think there's a good case to be made that sanctions (past a certain point, like obviously we bar stuff that can be used to make nukes) don't really do anything. So is this an American flag lapel thing (who cares?) or a real, effective policy?
the majority of the time to a country like Iran, which is a **** hole anyway, won't work. To a developed country they would do more economic damage. Granted any new sanctions are imposed probably won't do much, maybe ban other countries from trading weapons or selling them to Iran, but why not impose them is the question. Obama has agreed to 80% of Iran's demands in the nuke negotiations knowing that what Iran has agreed to will never happen. As a sitting president that has openly said he would veto any new sanctions against a country that supports terrorists financially and that wants to kill jews, Americans and wants to nuke Israel WHY the F$*k are you negotiating with them to begin with? That to me is unfathomable. Why cave to their demands? Why not set the terms and they either live by them or not? It's like giving North Korea the permission to build a long range ballistic missile capable of hitting the west coast and saying "just be sure not to bomb us".
 

AlbanyWildCat

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?


Originally posted by P19978:
How the hell Obama got 70% of the Jewish vote is beyond me.
Cause Israeli Jews and American Jews are not the same people.
 

AlbanyWildCat

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?


Originally posted by argubs2:
I still believe Romney was the only one who stood a chance against Hillary in a general election.
ROFLOL.........
 

JonathanW_rivals

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

I don't know where to start.

First of all Jeb is no George (either one). Jeb more preferred than his father or brother.
Secondly, I really think Paul has a chance. He is the one candidate that in addition to Republican votes, could get a decent # of moderate and Libertarian votes.
Thirdly, we (non-Dems) can only hope that the Dem-party nominates Hillary. She is the one candidate who will bring anti-voters out from the woodwork to vote against her. Sure she will get all of the leftist groups votes, but any Dem candidate will get those. To win you have to get votes from the middle. Hillary won't get many of those.

As for Romney, he couldn't beat an incompetent Obama. So why would anyone want him again (unless they want a Dem win).
 

KingOfBBN

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

I was really hoping Rubio would be the man and would help offset some of the left BS. I'd prefer some sort of combo from the Scott Walker, Rubio, Cruz, and Paul crowd.

If this country wants to stand a chance of being killed off for good by avoiding another liberal loon, they have to produce someone charismatic for 2016. Rubio is charismatic. No effin Bush. The name alone will be an automatic loss,

EAD, Albany.
 

BigBlueFan1963

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by HeismanCatNole85:
I was really hoping Rubio would be the man and would help offset some of the left BS. I'd prefer some sort of combo from the Scott Walker, Rubio, Cruz, and Paul crowd.

If this country wants to stand a chance of being killed off for good by avoiding another liberal loon, they have to produce someone charismatic for 2016. Rubio is charismatic. No effin Bush. The name alone will be an automatic loss,

EAD, Albany.
Scott Walker could be the man. I hope so.
 

dezyDeco

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by HeismanCatNole85:
I was really hoping Rubio would be the man and would help offset some of the left BS. I'd prefer some sort of combo from the Scott Walker, Rubio, Cruz, and Paul crowd.

If this country wants to stand a chance of being killed off for good by avoiding another liberal loon, they have to produce someone charismatic for 2016. Rubio is charismatic. No effin Bush. The name alone will be an automatic loss,

EAD, Albany.
I'll take Walker or Rand for the Prez, and add Allen West or Trey Gowdy to the VP mix. The R's will need a fighter on the ticket. They can't wuss out like the last two times... especially if it's Hellary, and she tries to play the ****** Card.
 

KyFaninNC

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?


Originally posted by BigBlueFan1963:
Originally posted by HeismanCatNole85:
I was really hoping Rubio would be the man and would help offset some of the left BS. I'd prefer some sort of combo from the Scott Walker, Rubio, Cruz, and Paul crowd.

If this country wants to stand a chance of being killed off for good by avoiding another liberal loon, they have to produce someone charismatic for 2016. Rubio is charismatic. No effin Bush. The name alone will be an automatic loss,

EAD, Albany.
Scott Walker could be the man. I hope so.
Don't want another Senator as POTUS. That experiment failed. We need a business man or Governor, someone who knows how to manage big things. Senator might be ok for a VEEP.
 

Catfan in Tn.

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?


More exemptions on Obamacare possible as the penalties for not having health coverage are about to come due.

Link
 

ukalumni00

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

You have to think Walker has a shot. He has fought the unions and Libs in WI how many times now and won.. Gowdy is a pit bull. Would love for him to be VP. There is nothing exciting about having another Bush or Clinton in the WH. Nothing
 

warrior-cat

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?


Originally posted by AlbanyWildCat:

Originally posted by P19978:
How the hell Obama got 70% of the Jewish vote is beyond me.
Cause Israeli Jews and American Jews are not the same people.
Spot on here.
 

Deeeefense

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by KyFaninNC: Don't want another Senator as POTUS. That experiment failed. We need a business man or Governor, someone who knows how to manage big things. Senator might be ok for a VEEP.
I think you are 100% right on that. But I think Walker is damaged goods. He still has legal issues pending over an alleged illegal campaign contribution scheme, and he's about as exciting as a 3 day old thanksgiving day turkey.

Rand Paul is an interesting candidate. To some degree he has become the contrarian candidate. His positions on smaller global military presence are appealing to a wide base, as well as his smaller government policies. He has also reached out to minorities and the youth. The problem is his resume reads a lot like the current president who has taken a lot of criticism over a lack of experience. He meets neither of your criteria. Interesting guy but he hasn't run anything other than a doctor's office.

I think Jeb is the Republicans best bet. He meets both of your criteria - a popular and successful governor of a large state, (which is also maybe the most important swing state) and is an accomplished businessman as well. His education program in Florida was highly successful so he can use that to argue against the attacks he'll get form the Right on common core. One issue that will be interesting will be offshore drilling. Obama actually leans to the right on this advocating more off-shore drilling while Jeb has historically leaned left opposing more offshore drilling. He'll also have to diferentiate himself from his brother, which he might be able to do by talking a lot about his father.

The media has already anointed The Chipmunk as the candidate from the Democrat side, so there isn't much to discuss there.
 

Catfan in Tn.

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

The last two Republican Moderates running for the White House got their rear ends kicked. Let's just nominate Jeb Bush and it will then be three in a row. Republican's wouldn't turn out to vote for Romney, Why would people think that Bush will be any different?
 
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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?


Originally posted by warrior-cat:

Originally posted by AlbanyWildCat:

Originally posted by P19978:
How the hell Obama got 70% of the Jewish vote is beyond me.
Cause Israeli Jews and American Jews are not the same people.
Spot on here.
You never heard the saying "Jews earn like Episcopalians but vote like Puerto Ricans"?
 

JHB4UK

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by Deeeefense:
But I think Walker is damaged goods. He still has legal issues pending over an alleged illegal campaign contribution scheme, and he's about as exciting as a 3 day old thanksgiving day turkey.
Damaged? He has won statewide votes 3 separate times over a 4 year period in a leaning democrat state in the midwest. The legal issues have been fully exposed as nothing but a partisan witch hunt. And his speaking skills were impressive enough at GOP events last weekend.

I think he might be just about the perfect mixture of conservative enough to satisfy the base, but still seeming moderate and non-threatening to appeal to squishy smarmy moderates. He earned an unofficial seal of approval from Limbaugh last week, which was a not-so-subtle endorsement that will carry a lot of influence with money people in the next few months.

please Rand & Rubio, run & win your senate seats in '16 and leave the Pres race to a governor
 

Rex Kwon Do

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by JHB4UK:
please Rand & Rubio, run & win your senate seats in '16 and leave the Pres race to a governor
Can't say I disagree with this....like Rand but Gov >>>> Sen as far as President is concerned. Walker may very well be the answer. Damaged goods lol.....guy has withstood the gates of hell in that state.

Good try dough, Deee.
 

Deeeefense

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by Catfan in Tn.:
The last two Republican Moderates running for the White House got their rear ends kicked. Let's just nominate Jeb Bush and it will then be three in a row. Republican's wouldn't turn out to vote for Romney, Why would people think that Bush will be any different?
The moderate/independent/swing voter is the largerst voting block in the country. You have to win a majority of those voters to win an election as the swing states like Ohio and Florida are full of them. It's ridiculous to think that a candidate lost by being "too moderate" Putting a right winger out there in the General will just get you beat worse - think Barry Goldwater.
Same as the Dems they put a far lefty out there once in George McGovern and he got trounced.

The wings of the parties are only about 25%. Losing 10-15% of them who say at home is nothing compared to the moderates you will lose with a righty on the ballet.

The trick for both sides is to find a candidate that can appeal to the main stream wing and the moderates but still not alienate the right. Same is true for the Dems with the left base.




This post was edited on 2/2 11:45 AM by Deeeefense
 

Deeeefense

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by JHB4UK:
Originally posted by Deeeefense:
But I think Walker is damaged goods. He still has legal issues pending over an alleged illegal campaign contribution scheme, and he's about as exciting as a 3 day old thanksgiving day turkey.
Damaged? He has won statewide votes 3 separate times over a 4 year period in a leaning democrat state in the midwest. The legal issues have been fully exposed as nothing but a partisan witch hunt. And his speaking skills were impressive enough at GOP events last weekend.

I think he might be just about the perfect mixture of conservative enough to satisfy the base, but still seeming moderate and non-threatening to appeal to squishy smarmy moderates. He earned an unofficial seal of approval from Limbaugh last week, which was a not-so-subtle endorsement that will carry a lot of influence with money people in the next few months.

please Rand & Rubio, run & win your senate seats in '16 and leave the Pres race to a governor
I think you're right about his positioning between right and center as being close to pitch perfect, but I still think his primary opponents will dig at him over the shady fund raising issue. And it's true he won electon in a state that is usually democratic but those were bitter elections with a lot animosity.

He's doing well right now so you have to credit him for that but I still think Jeb is your best option down the road.
 
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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?


The big problem with the GOP candidates are always the primary. Any candidate that could win the general, takes serious lumps in the primary by having to say things that will hurt them in the general just to survive the primary. Those things really turn off a lot of moderate voters.

On the flip side, the Dems don't eat their own. Plus it doesn't matter what candidate is put forth, the nearly all Dems will vote party line every time.
 

qwesley

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Jesus, deeee giving coaching for Reps is rich. The fact he wants Jeb should tell us a lot.

He did the EXACT same thing in 2011-12 for Romney that he doing now for Bush.

As soon as Romney got the nomination, he literally starting making up positions that Romney was not making based on assumptions...I **** you not...that Romney's spending/tax cuts could not be paid for.

Today, Obama's budget spells out a whole new wave of spending and tax increases that are the exact opposite of the "balanced" campaign he ran in, the same campaign that deeee was all in on. If we had an archive here, there would be ~300 posts from deeee about Bowles Simpson.

In the history of all internet discourse there has never been a more disingenuous individual than deeeefense.
 

qwesley

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:

On the flip side, the Dems don't eat their own. Plus it doesn't matter what candidate is put forth, the nearly all Dems will vote party line every time.
Exactly, they stand for nothing. Zero substance, GOP hates______, and feel-good talking points. But the same party-first garbage that helps them in POTUS elections has killed them in Congressional ones. They lost sitting Senators (even in non-conservative states like CO) and Congressman at a historic pace the last two elections because the voters saw their party was/is a detached monarchy.

With so many candidates, it just makes it that much more interesting to watch each one that gets momentum get a cascade of hit-pieces in Politico, NYT, WAPO, etc. It is like pop-a-mole. It will be difficult for any Rep to run that gauntlet for a whole year. All the while, the Sec of State that led the most disjointed foreign policy in modern history while also increasing drone usage by 500% or so will get kid gloves.

This post was edited on 2/2 11:22 AM by qwesley
 

kghighroller

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Pretty sure you need to have a college degree to be POTUS. Not that it's a requirement in the constitution or anything but come on. That would eliminate Walker imo. Ruubio filed bankruptcy so that isn't helping his chances especially with a $1,234,567,890,123,243,456,090,935,858,538,40 national debt. Rand Paul has his crazy dad to deal with and his foreign policy sucks. There are 3 candidates that shouldn't get the nomination. I like Carson a lot but he is so monotone.
 

JHB4UK

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by Deeeefense:
And it's true he won electon in a state that is usually democratic but those were bitter elections with a lot animosity.
Yeah, bitter elections - and he won all of them. 3 times!

what election results out there ended with the victorious side & the losers embracing, locking arms, and singing KumBaYa?
 

Bill Cosby

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by Deeeefense:

Same as the Dems they put a far lefty out there once in George McGovern



Yes, the Ds put a far lefty out there one time. And it wasn't Obama.

Jesus christ Defense is a moron. Who knows though, maybe the US shifts way far left in Defense's prophecies so Obama looks moderate in hindsight to a self proclaimed prophet.
 

Bill Cosby

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by qwesley:
Jesus, deeee giving coaching for Reps is rich. The fact he wants Jeb should tell us a lot.

He did the EXACT same thing in 2011-12 for Romney that he doing now for Bush.

As soon as Romney got the nomination, he literally starting making up positions that Romney was not making based on assumptions...I **** you not...that Romney's spending/tax cuts could not be paid for.

Today, Obama's budget spells out a whole new wave of spending and tax increases that are the exact opposite of the "balanced" campaign he ran in, the same campaign that deeee was all in on. If we had an archive here, there would be ~300 posts from deeee about Bowles Simpson.

In the history of all internet discourse there has never been a more disingenuous individual than deeeefense.
This entire pose is absolutely 100% fact. Defense was touting Romney as the best candidate. As soon as he won the primary, he started just making **** up.


I would love to know the amount of times I said something along the lines of, "I don't even like Romney, I think he's a ****** candidate, but you're just making **** up so I feel like I have to set the record straight."
 

Rex Kwon Do

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Searchable archives should be enacted here for Deee alone. Funny, I've seen him axe for that very thing several times....easy to request with the comfort of knowing it will never happen.
 

Deeeefense

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:

The big problem with the GOP candidates are always the primary. Any candidate that could win the general, takes serious lumps in the primary by having to say things that will hurt them in the general just to survive the primary. Those things really turn off a lot of moderate voters.
Exactly. That's what happened to moderate Mitt in 2011. Going in, he had a very strong resume, reasonable positions on most of the issue and had broad appeal, but he had to kowtow to the far right to win the primary which alienated a lot of the middle/independent types, and subsequently lost enough of them to lose. It's nearly a no-win scenario. Until the Republicans divest themselves of the nut cases like Ted Cruz the problem will continue.







This post was edited on 2/2 2:37 PM by Deeeefense
 

Catfan in Tn.

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by Deeeefense:

Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:

The big problem with the GOP candidates are always the primary. Any candidate that could win the general, takes serious lumps in the primary by having to say things that will hurt them in the general just to survive the primary. Those things really turn off a lot of moderate voters.
Exactly. That's what happened to moderate Mitt in 2011. Going in, he had a very strong resume, reasonable positions on most of the issue and had broad appeal, but he had to kowtow to the far right to win the primary which alienated a lot of the middle/independent types, and subsequently lost enough of them to lose. It's nearly a no-win scenario. Until the Republicans divest themselves of the nut cases like Ted Cruz the problem will continue.








This post was edited on 2/2 2:37 PM by Deeeefense
He didn't lose the Moderates, he lost Conservatives.
 

qwesley

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by Bill Cosby:

Originally posted by Deeeefense:

Same as the Dems they put a far lefty out there once in George McGovern




Yes, the Ds put a far lefty out there one time. And it wasn't Obama.

Jesus christ Defense is a moron. Who knows though, maybe the US shifts way far left in Defense's prophecies so Obama looks moderate in hindsight to a self proclaimed prophet.
Says this on the day Obama proposes trillions in new business and personal taxes as well as billions in new giveaways.
 

Big_Blue79

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^ he got beat soundly in moderates (slight Republican or Democrat lean) despite having won in true independents. Not sure if a stronger conservative turnout would have been enough to overcome a poor showing in moderates.

http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-romney-independent-vote-polls-moderates-election-2012-11
 

Bluemantoo

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

The last time the GOP offered a truly conservative candidate for POTUS (Reagan), he won in a landslide --- TWICE!

I doubt the current demographics would result in another landslide victory for a conservative, but if a true conservative who can cogently articulate a conservative message somehow gets the GOP nomination, I can promise that the Republican voters who stayed at home for Romney in 2012 will come out in force in 2016. The nation is basically 50%-50% (as far as actual voters go), so a slight uptick in the conservative vote would win the White House.

If the GOP nominates Bush, Romney, Christy, or any other establishment-type, I WILL NOT VOTE FOR POTUS IN 2016....I'm tired of helping to give the Repubs landslide victories in the congressional races in 2010 and 2014, only to have the establishment turn right back around and give me (and other conservatives) the middle finger after they are sworn in to office.
 

Bill Cosby

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LOL.

Obama won the self proclaimed moderate vote. He won that on Catspaws too. All of our self proclaimed moderates went crazy moderate for Obama. Given their posting histories, you almost would have thought they had their heads up their asses with zero self awareness and were in fact not moderate at all. But they said they were moderates.
 

Catfan in Tn.

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Interesting that Deeefense thinks that a Conservative Republican, the first Hispanic Senator from Texas, is a nut case and that the Party needs to divest themselves from him.
 

KingOfBBN

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

What were your guys thoughts on the #LikeAGirl campaign commercials? That along with the multiple female political dramas are laying the groundwork and getting the brainwashing started early for next year.
 

Bluemantoo

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by Catfan in Tn.:
Interesting that Deeefense thinks that a Conservative Republican, the first Hispanic Senator from Texas, is a nut case and that the Party needs to divest themselves from him.


This type of 'logic' is from the same worn-out Prog playbook that tells the opposing party which type of candidate they need to nominate if they want to win, along with forwarding the notion that when the GOP loses an election cycle, they must bow to the will of the Dems, but on the other hand, if the GOP wins the election cycle, they must bow to the will of the Dems.

When was the last time the Dems/Progs/Libs ever 'worked with' or made concessions to the GOP in matters of significant policy since Obama has been in office? Don't overthink it......the answer is: NEVER!

To their credit, Leftists are persistent and do not cave on issues that are near-and-dear to their collectivist hearts. In that regard, the GOP could take some much-needed lessons on how to demonstrate a political spine -- but before you can stand for something, you've gotta' figure out what you stand for. The GOP is a rudderless entity right now :-/
 

Deeeefense

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?

Originally posted by BlueManToo:
The last time the GOP offered a truly conservative candidate for POTUS (Reagan), he won in a landslide --- TWICE!
Reagan was a fiscal conservative but he also raised taxes and gave anmesty to 3 million illegal immigrants. Things that would have him blackballed from the party by today's standards, and cause Rushbo to burst a blood vessel or two.

If today we had another candidate of his stature, with similar positions I think he or she would also win comfortably.
 

qwesley

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Re: Political Thread: Closing Guantanamo?


Originally posted by Deeeefense:
Originally posted by BlueManToo:
The last time the GOP offered a truly conservative candidate for POTUS (Reagan), he won in a landslide --- TWICE!
Reagan was a fiscal conservative but he also raised taxes and gave anmesty to 3 million illegal immigrants. Things that would have him blackballed from the party by today's standards, and cause Rushbo to burst a blood vessel or two.

If today we had another candidate of his stature, with similar positions I think he or she would also win comfortably.
Obama was against Gay Marriage just 3 years ago....

That Reagan amnesty argument is tired. Other than being thirty years ago, the number was actually around 1.7 and Dems did not hold up their end of the bargain to strengthen penalties. It also, like all amnesty action, led to a severe increase in immigrants shortly thereafter. Party simpleton.
 
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