Pope bashers

[Lameguy]

I could see him potentially squeezing out another Elite 8 if he strikes it right, 50/50.

This current HS recruiting class is worth watching. They haven't landed anyone. 7 top kids left, 5 of which they're involved with and there is an NIL war going on for them.

Black - bro of Anthony Black, UNC, Texas and USC making strong plays
Daughtry - Ark on late, rumored to stay instate with Miami or Florida
Rosser - NC kid long rumored to UNC. Have to think Malone is saving the chest for him as can't lose.
Henry - recruitment has been all over the place, Ville also in play and throwing money at him
Diggs - long rumored to AZ and would fill the Holt spot seamlessly. AZ hasn't signed one kid yet, so likely has NIL for him.

We all know Jordan Smith is going draft, and plenty of mocks have at least 3 other Hogs going with him (Toure, Richmond, Mikka, the other frosh)

If Cal wiffs here, he's really losing his fastball. As is, he may be forced to try to retain (against his nature), or go portal/euro (also against his nature).

You'd have to think he lands 1 of the lead guards. As is, apparently Henry doesn't like Black and doesn't want to play with him.

Cal could either surprise us and land 3, flexing his muscle over all these other programs or he could end up shooting blanks with 0-1 and be left having to get creative.

Cal greatly benefited by playing weaker schedules, his last 6 years here, he played 32 ranked opponents, for comparison sakes Pope’s first 2 years here he’s played 30. With that said those 6 years weren’t his best years here either.

 

[FitchandMurray29]

I'm not planning to move on from Pope, nor am I definitive that it won't work here like others. I think there are serious issues but I still could see him turning it around at UK, even though that window is closing very quickly.

That said, the answer to your question is Nate Oats. I think he's a perfect on-court fit, despite the off-court reservations many have. He also already has a relationship with the AD.

Am I misremembering things or was there talk of some custody situation at the time of our last search that precluded him from leaving? Not that Mitch would’ve hired him anyways.

Would be an expensive get and show our commitment to footing massive bills in an effort to be elite. Would have another 25M in buyouts between his and Pope’s with a 3.5M+ probably salary increase from the mid 5M that Pope is at.

What’s weird with Oats for such a big swing perception hire, it’s not like he’d be bringing the Monstars with him. Assuming Allen goes pro this year, he could bring over his drug dealing PG and some solid wings(high 4 star freshman if I recall right). Chase Lumpkin is a nice 2027 guy that could be an equal trade for Hampton essentially.

He’d have to hit the portal very aggressively. Maybe he retains Wilkins.

Would be interesting to watch unfold. Will they want to add another 30M on the books? Probably comes down to just how bad Pope is this year. 6 seed or worse with no sweet 16 and I think it’s a realistic conversation.

 

[Catastic5]

My question for folks who want to start planning to move on from Pope, who’s next?

Who is on the short list of guys that come in and immediately get to consecutive E8s at least? Then keep that pace or better!

Secondly, who are you so confident actually wants to come here and deal with you all?

All the top tier coaches said no thanks! Scott Drew couldn’t get out of Lexington fast enough after his interview! He’d rather go .500 in the B12 than have his job questioned after a S16 run!

UNC was pretty confident running HD out! They had to go to the booth to find a guy.

We got Pope because he played here and loves the place! If he wasn’t an alumn god only knows who’d be here!

There’s two coaches who can do the job in the time frame the fanatics want it done. They’ve both already done it here. One of them is 70 the other is 80 years old. Neither one of them coached in an SEC like this.

There are a lot of decent candidates but none of them are coming in and winning recruiting season, combine/draft season, and most importantly the actual season to the degree and at the speed that the extremists want.

Name the coaches who said no. I’m waiting. Go ahead. List them.

 

[Catastic5]

Stoops was here 13 years, got a few seasons grace to start, and about 4-5 years of sliding towards the end.

UK football is actually an attractive gig, especially in the new era.

Whoever the Will Stein of basketball is, he isn’t going to UK or UNC. Most likely would take a Michigan, Florida, Bama before a blue blood.

The reasons why Stein is succeeding as well as other new coaches and other non traditional FB is exactly why Pope UK, KU, UNC are struggling in basketball.

Talent dispersed, conference level of difficulty changed accordingly.

Talent left SEC in football spread out to whoever was offering money and playing time. Talent flooded SEC basketball for money and playing time.

This crap is what abusive hubbies do to their loved ones. Jesus Christ. “You’ll never do better than me.” And so many of you Pope cult members throw that BS. Always bringing down the program all for the sake of the mighty Mark Pope. Man has done nothing to deserve your unbreaking love but here we are. You people have issues. Does he remind you of your fathers? An uncle? Are you are Mormons?

 

[Catastic5]

Mostly a reaction to the “Pope bashing” thread. What’s up with all the Pope fans constantly ridiculing the Kentucky basketball program? Telling us we cannot do better than Pope. That the NIL has “leveled the playing field”, despite ignoring that it’s the same teams who are successful year in and year out.

We can’t even get an up-in-comer coach in these people’s eyes. We have to accept Pope because we’re such awful fans, only Mr. Mark Pope was gracious enough to take the job.

Why are you even a Kentucky basketball fan? You sound more like a Pope fan. Please leave with him when he’s fired. Kentucky is bigger than any coach. Mark Pope isn’t the program.

 

[Cats_2010]

In a perfect world, Mark Pope would be highly successful coaching here and have a long career managing 2-3 titles along the way. But the reality tells a far different story, he simply cannot recruit well enough in today’s landscape (or any for that matter) to be able to achieve that. We are now to the SEC what our football team has consistently been the past 20 years or so. A team that is competitive but no threat at all to the really good teams and no shot at all at winning a title.

 

[Resignmarkpope]

Mostly a reaction to the “Pope bashing” thread. What’s up with all the Pope fans constantly ridiculing the Kentucky basketball program? Telling us we cannot do better than Pope. That the NIL has “leveled the playing field”, despite ignoring that it’s the same teams who are successful year in and year out.

We can’t even get an up-in-comer coach in these people’s eyes. We have to accept Pope because we’re such awful fans, only Mr. Mark Pope was gracious enough to take the job.

Why are you even a Kentucky basketball fan? You sound more like a Pope fan. Please leave with him when he’s fired. Kentucky is bigger than any coach. Mark Pope isn’t the program.

Kentucky Hoosiers

 

[BookofMormon]

Everything fell his way last year. Third easiest schedule in the sec, arguably the 3rd best player he has ever coached,some talented veterans returning. He was still nowhere close .
His coaching staff is putrid and he hasn’t put a decent defensive team on the floor in almost a decade.

I just ain’t buying it, no matter how good he recruits.

I'd lean your way. He was within an *** hair of an E8 the previous year, ironically because he had older players.

Couldn't agree with you more on last years team, was soft. I'm expecting his team this year to be similar. His frontcourt is going to get abused.

 

[UKortho]

Dude you gotta have me mixed up with someone else. I’m not even close . I consider myself pro-pope , neutral at worst .You can access my posting history.

Come on over to the dark side my friend! Hope you are doing well.

 

[yoshukai]

Come on over to the dark side my friend! Hope you are doing well.

Thanks , I am doing well brother. I’m just in the “show me” mode . I thought his first year was encouraging. I thought last year was bad . Injuries aside ,it was a poorly constructed roster.

 

[UKortho]

Many of them bought into the quirky/weird personality. They are a coach first fan, rather than program first. They are looking into the mirror and ignoring a lifetime of poor performance.

 

[yoshukai]

Am I misremembering things or was there talk of some custody situation at the time of our last search that precluded him from leaving? Not that Mitch would’ve hired him anyways.

Would be an expensive get and show our commitment to footing massive bills in an effort to be elite. Would have another 25M in buyouts between his and Pope’s with a 3.5M+ probably salary increase from the mid 5M that Pope is at.

What’s weird with Oats for such a big swing perception hire, it’s not like he’d be bringing the Monstars with him. Assuming Allen goes pro this year, he could bring over his drug dealing PG and some solid wings(high 4 star freshman if I recall right). Chase Lumpkin is a nice 2027 guy that could be an equal trade for Hampton essentially.

He’d have to hit the portal very aggressively. Maybe he retains Wilkins.

Would be interesting to watch unfold. Will they want to add another 30M on the books? Probably comes down to just how bad Pope is this year. 6 seed or worse with no sweet 16 and I think it’s a realistic conversation.

That ”custody “ thing was proven to be a hoax . Probably put out by Mitch’s PR firm ,lol . Just joking (I think).

 

[chroix]

This definitely warranted a new thread.

 

[yoshukai]

Name the coaches who said no. I’m waiting. Go ahead. List them.

Scott Drew for sure .(dodged a bullet).

I guess you could say Hurley but I dont think Mitch seriously pursued him.

Thats it.


However North Carolina was rejected by several and I believe that job is in the neighborhood of the Kentucky job .

 

[Pygmy Sasquatch]

I believe in peace and bashing two bricks together

 

[BookofMormon]

Scott Drew for sure .(dodged a bullet).

I guess you could say Hurley but I dont think Mitch seriously pursued him.

Thats it.


However North Carolina was rejected by several and I believe that job is in the neighborhood of the Kentucky job .

Hurley was probably a hear out conversation at most. Not sure you can technically call it a no. He was in the middle of being pursued by the Lakers.

Drew was a major bullet. I'm not even sure what that guy is doing these days.

I don't think UNC or UK is any more attractive. UK has the SEC on it's side. My fear is that UNC is a prelude to the challenges.

 

[Cats4321]

I've never understood why some people love a coach more than the program (some did this with Cal too). The thing that annoys me right now is how some of our fans seem almost pissed off when someone even mentions that we have a huge NIL budget compared to 95% of basketball programs. Everyone in the media says it, but some fans want to believe we are some poor team who can't get top tier talent. I remember Cal even saying,back when teams started using NIL to recruit players, that if they want to recruit that way then Kentucky can definitely play that game (can't remember the exact quote). I think he was basically saying we could do it better than most other programs. A few of our fans want to use a lack of NIL to make excuses for our recent recruiting trouble. Having a big NIL budget is a good thing if you are actually a UK basketball fan.

 

[peterpiper09]

Mark Pope has had some unusually bad luck with respect to injuries and bad gambles (JQ) his first couple seasons. While we are a little dinged up at the moment, for whatever reason, I believe the odds are that we stay somewhat healthy this season as a core.

CMP has quietly, under the radar, put together a pretty good staff. I think Fox is the weakest link obviously, hopefully to sure up that position soon. Aboya is a dynamite addition to add to Williams. He’s putting good people around him to help with guard play, big man play, toughness, and people who have had success, and people who relate to these young guys in many ways. Also, when it comes to recruiting, he now has help both in our area and across the waters. I think at first he tried to do too much on his own, but I think that is changing to where everyone on deck has a hand in building what we all want in this weird time.

Lastly, I think our bunch is being vastly overlooked, underrated, and forgotten about. All the doom and gloomers on this board can now stick their little jabs in at me, the other optimistic fans, Pope, or whoever, it doesn’t bother me in the least, but I think UK will be back on the map in a couple months leading into the meat of the season.

 

[Catastic5]

This definitely warranted a new thread.

Maybe people should stop bashing the program they claim to love? Especially for one coach. Kentucky is bigger than one man. I see it far too much from a group of losers who seem to think Mark Pope is bigger than the program.

 

[theBlues]

OP, there is something you don't seem to get: a lot of the folks you think love Pope more than the program don't even like Pope; they just don't want to bash the program.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

Am I misremembering things or was there talk of some custody situation at the time of our last search that precluded him from leaving? Not that Mitch would’ve hired him anyways.

Would be an expensive get and show our commitment to footing massive bills in an effort to be elite. Would have another 25M in buyouts between his and Pope’s with a 3.5M+ probably salary increase from the mid 5M that Pope is at.

What’s weird with Oats for such a big swing perception hire, it’s not like he’d be bringing the Monstars with him. Assuming Allen goes pro this year, he could bring over his drug dealing PG and some solid wings(high 4 star freshman if I recall right). Chase Lumpkin is a nice 2027 guy that could be an equal trade for Hampton essentially.

He’d have to hit the portal very aggressively. Maybe he retains Wilkins.

Would be interesting to watch unfold. Will they want to add another 30M on the books? Probably comes down to just how bad Pope is this year. 6 seed or worse with no sweet 16 and I think it’s a realistic conversation.

Players still like playing for Oats. The perception stuff really doesn't matter as much as fans often say. We thought Cal was worse than Mussolini until he signed here.

 

[Catastic5]

OP, there is something you don't seem to get: a lot of the folks you think love Pope more than the program don't even like Pope; they just don't want to bash the program.

Considering some of the people claim we cannot get any other coach besides Pope. That no one would coach for us because our fanbase is “terrible.” What exactly am I supposed to think? People were outright bashing the program in the “Pope bashers” thread.

 

[Lameguy]

OP, there is something you don't seem to get: a lot of the folks you think love Pope more than the program don't even like Pope; they just don't want to bash the program.

Exactly, there’s no Pope love. It’s just being realistic, anybody with half a brain knew that he wasn’t going anywhere after year 2. We all know the program isn’t where we want it. Many of us were tired of Calipari and ready to move on.
And the fact is there’s been injuries that derailed the last two years combined with an increasingly better SEC. If this year is another 22-14 year then I think most of us will be fine with moving on.

 

[UKGrad24]

Fair question. But you won't recognize that the teams that have won the SEC during this period, have not had the injuries that UK has had. Take out those and the whole scenario changes. Maybe not outright winning conference, but very possible.

You take the injuries that UK had Pope's first year and place them on Florida. I guarantee they aren't winning conference or NCAA.... but Pope sucks... I know the rhetoric.

it doesn’t matter. Pope has not looked good at all and the injury talk, won’t say excuse, is wildly overplayed. What some fail to realize is…….other teams have injuries too. That’s right, other teams also share in the unique aspect of competitive sport known as injury. Teams have made final fours with their best players out, but, who’s trying to bring that up when we’re putting on record reasons for suck to a coach who’s barely played in a tournament and never won a conference championship in like 12 years. Lest I remind you 2 of which at a program that puts more recourses into basketball than much of the conference combined. I won’t mention also a bottom barrel recruiter at said school, who’s known as the program that, when it walks in a gym, coaches walk out.

Not gonna get too much into it, but some of the injury talk was comical. Data didn’t back it up at all but people just see boo boo and think injury be injury. Not the case. When your team improved based on injuries you can’t complain.

Florida probably wouldn’t have won the title with injuries but hell we sure as hell weren’t winning one even without them. Works both ways.

 

[UKGrad24]

I'm not planning to move on from Pope, nor am I definitive that it won't work here like others. I think there are serious issues but I still could see him turning it around at UK, even though that window is closing very quickly.

That said, the answer to your question is Nate Oats. I think he's a perfect on-court fit, despite the off-court reservations many have. He also already has a relationship with the AD.

I mean it’s pretty simple. Recruit. Win the league. Final Four.

I’d say less than 7% chance on that.

Oats has to be the call, and it’s our typical type move. Hire the nice dude that can’t do the job, sell soul and get back. We’ve been doing it for a while.

 

[UKGrad24]

I'm really hoping Pope turns it around this season. I have reservations about Oats. But I had reservations about calipari, too. And after two years of Otis the Drunk, I lost my reservations and concerns about calipari. I'm approaching the same mindset with Oats.

Pygmy all these years, I didn’t take you as female in your marriage.

Wake your *** up ain’t no time for this. Oats is psychotic and a complete POS. But he’ll do a charity or two here and we’ll be back to Calipari.

You usually don’t disappoint me.

 

[UKGrad24]

Dude you gotta have me mixed up with someone else. I’m not even close . I consider myself pro-pope , neutral at worst .You can access my posting history.

Suprising to say the least. We gettin soft after these years dang.

 

[UKGrad24]

Everything fell his way last year. Third easiest schedule in the sec, arguably the 3rd best player he has ever coached,some talented veterans returning. He was still nowhere close .
His coaching staff is putrid and he hasn’t put a decent defensive team on the floor in almost a decade.

I just ain’t buying it, no matter how good he recruits.

Man Calipari has had extreme luck, roads in the tourney like he hasn’t had in years. Sweet 16. If he couldn’t do it then he ain’t now


Calipari is washed the guy now is synonymous with Jim Boeheim. Calipari is an absolute moron.

also find it hilarious that Calipari and the big war chest of Walmart ain’t working out so hot

still can’t believe people thought Arkansas was going to be some juggernaut in NIL. They are terrible in everything, mid funded. Said it and said it. Jerry jones lol. Guy never did **** there but build an out house. He doesn’t give a f about Arkansas.

 

[Catastic5]

I mean it’s pretty simple. Recruit. Win the league. Final Four.

I’d say less than 7% chance on that.

Oats has to be the call, and it’s our typical type move. Hire the nice dude that can’t do the job, sell soul and get back. We’ve been doing it for a while.

If Oats wants the job, I doubt boosters would say no to paying the Alabama buyout.

I do wonder if he’s satisfied with where he’s been going recently. Feels like Golden has stolen his thunder at Florida and Alabama isn’t really interested in throwing the big bucks his way when the football team demands more.

I know some people aren’t too happy with the recruits he goes after, but I remember Cal at Memphis recruiting “morally questionable” players too. The kind of guys he got at Kentucky were not the same as what he got at Memphis and I think that’d be true for Oats as well.

I’m still not convinced Oats is interested in leaving Alabama. I guess we’ll see if Pope does poorly this season and ends up being let go.

 

[Lameguy]

This definitely warranted a new thread.

LMAO, what happened to that new thread? Wasn’t new and original I see.

 

[true-blue1]

Can we get them to all come to this thread, round them all up here and we can see all the negative people at once. I lose track of who is who in the other threads.

I can't imagine anyone bashing Pope. He's absolutely killed it here in his first 2 seasons. He just lost 26 games in those two seasons.

 

[BigBluefoot]

If a pope basher is someone who thinks pope has not done a good job and thinks he should be done here if there are no improvements this year, then I’m counting me as one

Ditto.
Seems like we have a few generations that have been taught that criticism is "hate" or "bashing."
That soft nonsense will handicap you for life.

 

[FitchandMurray29]

That ”custody “ thing was proven to be a hoax . Probably put out by Mitch’s PR firm ,lol . Just joking (I think).

Always seemed odd that no one else ever had that situation. But then he remarries a staffer over 20 years younger than him and I questioned it less than I should have lol

 

[chroix]

LMAO, what happened to that new thread? Wasn’t new and original I see.

Definitely a win for the mods

 

[Lameguy]

Ditto.
Seems like we have a few generations that have been taught that criticism is "hate" or "bashing."
That soft nonsense will handicap you for life.

It’s not so much criticism that’s the problem, it’s the lashing out like a child that wants their way as soon as possible. If you want instant gratification and winning a championship every year then buy a video game, put it on dynasty mode or whatever it’s called now and win one every season. Believe it or not there’s always going to be rough spots and years. Ky went from 1958 to 1978 without an NCAA championship then from 1978 to 1996. Nobody likes it but it happens, crying about it doesn’t change it.

 

[Feral Manatee]

My question for folks who want to start planning to move on from Pope, who’s next?

Who is on the short list of guys that come in and immediately get to consecutive E8s at least? Then keep that pace or better!

Secondly, who are you so confident actually wants to come here and deal with you all?

All the top tier coaches said no thanks! Scott Drew couldn’t get out of Lexington fast enough after his interview! He’d rather go .500 in the B12 than have his job questioned after a S16 run!

UNC was pretty confident running HD out! They had to go to the booth to find a guy.

We got Pope because he played here and loves the place! If he wasn’t an alumn god only knows who’d be here!

There’s two coaches who can do the job in the time frame the fanatics want it done. They’ve both already done it here. One of them is 70 the other is 80 years old. Neither one of them coached in an SEC like this.

There are a lot of decent candidates but none of them are coming in and winning recruiting season, combine/draft season, and most importantly the actual season to the degree and at the speed that the extremists want.

So there is no one out there, not a single up and coming coach, that would be interested in an opportunity to coach a program with a top 2 or 3 NIL budget every year, a huge salary increase, incredible infrastructure, most national tv/media exposure in the country. Nobody. I am aware the grass isn't always greener on the other side, but Pope is one of the worst fits I can imagine for what UK basketball is. Matt Jones was talking on KSR today about how several of the players that were here last year but now with other teams at SEC media days had made comments alluding (politely) to the fact that they couldn't turn down the money, and giving the impression that playing for Pope was not a reason for coming here. They also made clear that UK was being used only as a leverage tool in negotiations in many recruitments. He just cannot relate to top high school or young basketball talent. If Pope had finished his Neurosurgery residency then I would 100% want the guy operating on me if I needed say a laminectomy and fusion. But the only place he fits as a basketball coach is at a mid major or BYU. Players are only coming here because we can throw giant bags at them. NO ONE IS COMING BECAUSE THEY'RE EXCITED ABOUT PLAYING FOR MARK POPE, which is sad.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

It’s not so much criticism that’s the problem, it’s the lashing out like a child that wants their way as soon as possible. If you want instant gratification and winning a championship every year then buy a video game, put it on dynasty mode or whatever it’s called now and win one every season. Believe it or not there’s always going to be rough spots and years. Ky went from 1958 to 1978 without an NCAA championship then from 1978 to 1996. Nobody likes it but it happens, crying about it doesn’t change it.

Dry periods of winning a natty, for sure. But they also had two FFs during each of those dry spells. They also had 15 regular season conference titles in those time periods. That means they were extremely competitive and close. NCAATs can create some special one offs. The metric should be conference standings year after year. And as long as there’s not a disturbing pattern in the conference or NCAA tournament, you have to be happy with the results. Problem with Pope so far, he’s finished dead middle of the pack in the SEC. He hasn’t done anything of note in the conference or NCAA tournament. He also has no equity built up as a winner like Tubby or Cal did. Most or all evidence that exists on his coaching career is essentially what we’ve gotten so far. If he can’t graduate beyond that this season, that’s plenty of data. Eventually, you are who the records and numbers say you are.

 

[JustBlue]

He was within an *** hair of an E8 the previous year, ironically because he had older players.

That was a 15 point loss where they were down by 20. That hair is like a rope.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

That was a 15 point loss where they were down by 20. That hair is like a rope.

Yeah, I’m not exactly sure how one views an E8 as being close if they watched that game. Sure, they were one win away. But that game was over by the second TV timeout.

 

[BookofMormon]

That was a 15 point loss where they were down by 20. That hair is like a rope.

Texas Tech - Cal blew a giant lead and lost in OT on the Derrion Williams 3.