Possible controversial tweak

[BigKari]

Poss controversial because of play style, but Toppin needs to be starting and playing 30mpg. This means benching Wheeler and making TyTy the primary ball handler. Wheeler would basically exchange minutes with Toppin and play 16mpg (or less) instead of the 30 he’s at now. We pretty much all, myself included wanted a 3 guard offense, and it’s been good obviously but I think going forward Toppin starting and playing minutes gives us the best chance in March. He is so versatile defending and his offense is not only picking up, he’s becoming one of the most efficient and productive offensive players on the team.

This basically comes down to Toppin > Wheeler which isn’t too controversial by itself. The argument against playing 3 bigs is obviously spacing. Toppin can put the ball on the floor though and both he and Keion are very good mid range shooters. And obviously the offensive production was still great with both in yesterday. TyTy and Grady are our best shooters and you’d still have Mintz with 20mpg+ off the bench who has been shooting great. Actually has 2nd best 3pt shooting percentage on the team now.

Yesterday was a great argument for a tight rotation and I think that’s the other obvious tweak. Play our 6 best as many minutes as they can handle. I think those 6 are established. It’s what we did in 2012 too. You have Ware or Collins to back up Oscar for 6-8 minutes, either or just depending on the matchup. I really like Hopkins going forward but it’s clear at this point he’s a spot minutes player on this team. He possibly gets 3mpg in some games if we have a lead and want to steal some quick rest for Toppin or Brooks. Allen should only play if there’s heavy foul trouble.

Tshiebwe- 34mpg
Brooks - 24mpg
Toppin- 30mpg
Grady - 36 mpg
Washington- 35 mpg

Mintz - 23mpg
Wheeler- 12mpg
Ware/Collins - 6mpg

I’m not trying to **** on Wheeler, but I want number 9. I’m convinced this rotation would give us the best chance.

 

[Aike]

I prefer Wheeler starting to set the tempo, but it’s nice to know the Toppin/Brooks lineup can work. Wouldn’t want to be married to it, mostly because it would be an ugly rock fight on a cold shooting night.

 

[BlueArrow87]

Different match ups sometimes different line ups would be better. Sometimes though it's bad to mess with the line ups this late in the year.

 

[BigKari]

I prefer Wheeler starting to set the tempo, but it’s nice to know the Toppin/Brooks lineup can work. Wouldn’t want to be married to it, mostly because it would be an ugly rock fight on a cold shooting night.

If it’s a cold shooting night, it’s going to be a rock fight with or without Wheeler on the floor. I’d rather have Toppin’s defense in a rock fight.

 

[Aike]

I’ll add that I don’t think we need to be married to Wheeler to the point of going down with the ship. Keep the rotation tight and do whatever works.

 

[BigKari]

Different match ups sometimes different line ups would be better. Sometimes though it's bad to mess with the line ups this late in the year.

Agreed, but with Wheeler being out, it’s a chance for a bit of a reset.

 

[Aike]

If it’s a cold shooting night, it’s going to be a rock fight with or without Wheeler on the floor. I’d rather have Toppin’s defense in a rock fight.

I slightly disagree. We have a better chance of creating turnovers and transition offense with Wheeler on the floor. Pushing the action prevents rock fights.

 

[KA4Prez_rivals78700]

Wheeler can play 30 minutes BUT he needs to play off the ball. He is great at catching the ball in the weave and creating. It's unconventional and teams really have a tough time staying with him when he's moving without the ball.

THIS is where the tweak would work.

Otherwise, this won't happen. Wheeler is playing 25+ minutes per game, if anything, for his defense.

 

[Cleisthenes]

We have quality depth. I really like the way the guys off the bench looked.

 

[BigKari]

Wheeler can play 30 minutes BUT he needs to play off the ball. He is great at catching the ball in the weave and creating. It's unconventional and teams really have a tough time staying with him when he's moving without the ball.

THIS is where the tweak would work.

Otherwise, this won't happen. Wheeler is playing 25+ minutes per game, if anything, for his defense.

Yeah I mean we’re a borderline one seed with Wheeler as starting PG. So I know Cal isn’t going to blow it up at this point, but we need Toppin being more than Keion’s backup. Bottom line, we need Toppin on the floor in March. However that ends up looking, it just has to get done.

 

[Aike]

Yeah I mean we’re a borderline one seed with Wheeler as starting PG. So I know Cal isn’t going to blow it up at this point, but we need Toppin being more than Keion’s backup. Bottom line, we need Toppin on the floor in March. However that ends up looking, it just has to get done.

I don’t think it would be the end of the world to see 3 guards with Toppin/Brooks for stretches, especially against teams that are going small.

 

[University-6]

No way you bench the guy getting the third most assists in the nation. I know Wheeler is a bad shooter, but he produces way more than he costs. His assist to turnover ratio 2.37/1. That's all you can ever ask of a guy. He is the reason for a huge chunk of our fast break points. Also a lockdown defender on the opposing team's best ballhandler. I love Toppin to death, but no way in hell I can get behind benching Wheeler.

 

[BigKari]

I don’t think it would be the end of the world to see 3 guards with Toppin/Brooks for stretches, especially against teams that are going small.

Exactly. Toppin has the versatility to play the 3, 4, or 5. Just keep him on the floor.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Poss controversial because of play style, but Toppin needs to be starting and playing 30mpg. This means benching Wheeler and making TyTy the primary ball handler. Wheeler would basically exchange minutes with Toppin and play 16mpg (or less) instead of the 30 he’s at now. We pretty much all, myself included wanted a 3 guard offense, and it’s been good obviously but I think going forward Toppin starting and playing minutes gives us the best chance in March. He is so versatile defending and his offense is not only picking up, he’s becoming one of the most efficient and productive offensive players on the team.

This basically comes down to Toppin > Wheeler which isn’t too controversial by itself. The argument against playing 3 bigs is obviously spacing. Toppin can put the ball on the floor though and both he and Keion are very good mid range shooters. And obviously the offensive production was still great with both in yesterday. TyTy and Grady are our best shooters and you’d still have Mintz with 20mpg+ off the bench who has been shooting great. Actually has 2nd best 3pt shooting percentage on the team now.

Yesterday was a great argument for a tight rotation and I think that’s the other obvious tweak. Play our 6 best as many minutes as they can handle. I think those 6 are established. It’s what we did in 2012 too. You have Ware or Collins to back up Oscar for 6-8 minutes, either or just depending on the matchup. I really like Hopkins going forward but it’s clear at this point he’s a spot minutes player on this team. He possibly gets 3mpg in some games if we have a lead and want to steal some quick rest for Toppin or Brooks. Allen should only play if there’s heavy foul trouble.

Tshiebwe- 34mpg
Brooks - 24mpg
Toppin- 30mpg
Grady - 36 mpg
Washington- 35 mpg

Mintz - 23mpg
Wheeler- 12mpg
Ware/Collins - 6mpg

I’m not trying to **** on Wheeler, but I want number 9. I’m convinced this rotation would give us the best chance.

I think you are downplaying how important Wheeler is to setting the tempo.

Almost any team in the country is going to end up running vs Alabama. Their offensive pace setting is the equivalent to Virginia's defensive pace setting.

Wheeler is the straw that stirs the drink. I agree Toppin needs to play more, but it should come at the expense of Brooks minutes or even Oscar when he gets a breather. Now, if Wheeler is particularly bad, I 100% think you turn game over to TyTy.

IMO in post season (current avg in parenthesis)
Wheeler- 30 (30.5)
TyTy- 35 (28.8)
Grady- 35 (33)
Brooks- 25 (24.9)
Oscar- 30 (30.8)

Bench
Toppin- 20-25 (16.7)
Mintz- 20 (24.5)
Ware- 0-5 (6.8)

 

[BigKari]

No way you bench the guy getting the third most assists in the nation. I know Wheeler is a bad shooter, but he produces ways more than he costs. His assist to turnover ratio 2.37/1. That's all you can ever ask of a guy. He is the reason for a huge chunk of our fast break points. Also a lockdown defender on the opposing team's best ballhandler. I love Toppin to death, but no way in hell I can get behind benching Wheeler.

Those assists don’t just go away with him on the bench. In this situation you have TyTy at the point, which I prefer. TyTy averages 4apg playing primarily off ball, that number goes up if he’s at point.

 

[Runt#1969]

No way you bench the guy getting the third most assists in the nation. I know Wheeler is a bad shooter, but he produces way more than he costs. His assist to turnover ratio 2.37/1. That's all you can ever ask of a guy. He is the reason for a huge chunk of our fast break points. Also a lockdown defender on the opposing team's best ballhandler. I love Toppin to death, but no way in hell I can get behind benching Wheeler.

^^THIS^^

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Those assists don’t just go away with him on the bench. In this situation you have TyTy at the point, which I prefer. TyTy averages 4apg playing primarily off ball, that number goes up if he’s at point.

But you can kind of say that about ANY player you remove: someone is going to take their spot and fill in at least some of their production.

What I'm hoping to see from Wheeler is just being a bit more in control.. hes had some iffy games of late. Better shot selection. Sometimes he drives into no-mans-land. Maybe a few rest games will get him back into form. But Guards matter in March. Need him out there, especially his defense.

 

[MudererofCrows]

We’re better defensively with Wheeler.

We’re better in the half court offensively with TyTy/Mintz.

I love Wheeler and what he brings but point guards who can’t shoot have been a big contributor to March failures lately. And I will always take a PG that can shoot. Every day of the week and twice on Sunday’s.

 

[G-Bloo]

Different match ups sometimes different line ups would be better. Sometimes though it's bad to mess with the line ups this late in the year.

This Also, there teams that cannot run with us..

 

[ManOfManyNames]

Those assists don’t just go away with him on the bench. In this situation you have TyTy at the point, which I prefer. TyTy averages 4apg playing primarily off ball, that number goes up if he’s at point.

Tyty can't consistently beat his man off the dribble or get the ball up the court as fast as Wheeler can. We've had one of the best backcourts in the country all year long with both of them playing. Toppin and Brooks have been hot for a game or 2 and then cold again for a game or 2 all season. There is no consistency with either of them. You don’t change what's worked all season because of 1 good game that we were getting beat my 13 for part of.

 

[Runt#1969]

I'm simply taking the following into account here on out :

1) Get back to100% health and a FULL ROSTER - and then STAY HEALTHY
2) Simply stay within ourselves and exceed the other teams' maximum effort and intensity level for the duration of the game.
3) Take each team as it comes at us with matchups. We have a versatile, tight knit, unselfish and experienced group that has the chance to have yet another guy - or two - to step up and make this team even that much better. I'm still thinking Ware, Hopkins, Collins - the opportunity is there. And to have Mintz AND Toppin coming off the bench is a luxury of awesome proportions.....

I've had this sneaky suspicion, as crazy good as they have been this year, that it's going to be one of the "other" guys that is going to get you in a huge way, and put this Kentucky team over the top.

And we really do need every guy to play at his best. Let's face it, when Wheeler is on and having a good game, we are REALLY good. Let's stay positive and know that his shots will eventually fall, and he's good at the line when we need him in crunch, and that's enough. I love him defensively even more than the assists. It's at least always an adventure ! lol

 

[LmdCat]

Poss controversial because of play style, but Toppin needs to be starting and playing 30mpg. This means benching Wheeler and making TyTy the primary ball handler. Wheeler would basically exchange minutes with Toppin and play 16mpg (or less) instead of the 30 he’s at now. We pretty much all, myself included wanted a 3 guard offense, and it’s been good obviously but I think going forward Toppin starting and playing minutes gives us the best chance in March. He is so versatile defending and his offense is not only picking up, he’s becoming one of the most efficient and productive offensive players on the team.

This basically comes down to Toppin > Wheeler which isn’t too controversial by itself. The argument against playing 3 bigs is obviously spacing. Toppin can put the ball on the floor though and both he and Keion are very good mid range shooters. And obviously the offensive production was still great with both in yesterday. TyTy and Grady are our best shooters and you’d still have Mintz with 20mpg+ off the bench who has been shooting great. Actually has 2nd best 3pt shooting percentage on the team now.

Yesterday was a great argument for a tight rotation and I think that’s the other obvious tweak. Play our 6 best as many minutes as they can handle. I think those 6 are established. It’s what we did in 2012 too. You have Ware or Collins to back up Oscar for 6-8 minutes, either or just depending on the matchup. I really like Hopkins going forward but it’s clear at this point he’s a spot minutes player on this team. He possibly gets 3mpg in some games if we have a lead and want to steal some quick rest for Toppin or Brooks. Allen should only play if there’s heavy foul trouble.

Tshiebwe- 34mpg
Brooks - 24mpg
Toppin- 30mpg
Grady - 36 mpg
Washington- 35 mpg

Mintz - 23mpg
Wheeler- 12mpg
Ware/Collins - 6mpg

I’m not trying to **** on Wheeler, but I want number 9. I’m convinced this rotation would give us the best chance.

Thank God that you are not the coach. Considering you as coach is one way Cal can truly keep his job for life. Your idea is about as senseless as Huggins' belief that Oscar wasn't worth keeping. Wheeler causes more fear defensively to opponents than any other player on the team. Wheeler makes scoring easier for everyone on the team. Teams are willing to give up on offensive rebounds to stop Wheeler's one-man fast break show.

 

[cats#1again]

You take wheeler off the floor and we have one guy that can create a shot. That's awful

 

[LmdCat]

I think you are downplaying how important Wheeler is to setting the tempo.

Almost any team in the country is going to end up running vs Alabama. Their offensive pace setting is the equivalent to Virginia's defensive pace setting.

Wheeler is the straw that stirs the drink. I agree Toppin needs to play more, but it should come at the expense of Brooks minutes or even Oscar when he gets a breather. Now, if Wheeler is particularly bad, I 100% think you turn game over to TyTy.

IMO in post season (current avg in parenthesis)
Wheeler- 30 (30.5)
TyTy- 35 (28.8)
Grady- 35 (33)
Brooks- 25 (24.9)
Oscar- 30 (30.8)

Bench
Toppin- 20-25 (16.7)
Mintz- 20 (24.5)
Ware- 0-5 (6.8)

You talk about turning the offense over to Washington as if Mintz takes a back seat to him. If Wheeler isn't running the show, I am more than happy with Mintz's performance. You can count on Mintz playing; that can't be said for Wheeler or Washington.

 

[JC CATS]

Poss controversial because of play style, but Toppin needs to be starting and playing 30mpg. This means benching Wheeler and making TyTy the primary ball handler. Wheeler would basically exchange minutes with Toppin and play 16mpg (or less) instead of the 30 he’s at now. We pretty much all, myself included wanted a 3 guard offense, and it’s been good obviously but I think going forward Toppin starting and playing minutes gives us the best chance in March. He is so versatile defending and his offense is not only picking up, he’s becoming one of the most efficient and productive offensive players on the team.

This basically comes down to Toppin > Wheeler which isn’t too controversial by itself. The argument against playing 3 bigs is obviously spacing. Toppin can put the ball on the floor though and both he and Keion are very good mid range shooters. And obviously the offensive production was still great with both in yesterday. TyTy and Grady are our best shooters and you’d still have Mintz with 20mpg+ off the bench who has been shooting great. Actually has 2nd best 3pt shooting percentage on the team now.

Yesterday was a great argument for a tight rotation and I think that’s the other obvious tweak. Play our 6 best as many minutes as they can handle. I think those 6 are established. It’s what we did in 2012 too. You have Ware or Collins to back up Oscar for 6-8 minutes, either or just depending on the matchup. I really like Hopkins going forward but it’s clear at this point he’s a spot minutes player on this team. He possibly gets 3mpg in some games if we have a lead and want to steal some quick rest for Toppin or Brooks. Allen should only play if there’s heavy foul trouble.

Tshiebwe- 34mpg
Brooks - 24mpg
Toppin- 30mpg
Grady - 36 mpg
Washington- 35 mpg

Mintz - 23mpg
Wheeler- 12mpg
Ware/Collins - 6mpg

I’m not trying to **** on Wheeler, but I want number 9. I’m convinced this rotation would give us the best chance.

If only he could get an assist now and again

 

[HagginHall1999]

You talk about turning the offense over to Washington as if Mintz takes a back seat to him. If Wheeler isn't running the show, I am more than happy with Mintz's performance. You can count on Mintz playing; that can't be said for Wheeler or Washington.

I'm assuming Wheeler and Washington come back from injury. If they don't, yeah it is Mintz. If they do, Mintz isn't playing PG.

 

[UK-Chulo]

Thank God that you are not the coach. Considering you as coach is one way Cal can truly keep his job for life. Your idea is about as senseless as Huggins' belief that Oscar wasn't worth keeping. Wheeler causes more fear defensively to opponents than any other player on the team. Wheeler makes scoring easier for everyone on the team. Teams are willing to give up on offensive rebounds to stop Wheeler's one-man fast break show.

Could you not counter him without personal insults?

 

[jrpross_rivals]

I can get behind more minutes for Toppin but at the expense of giving the country’s 3rd leading assist man 12 minutes a game? Yikes. No thanks.

 

[wildcat7337]

Poss controversial because of play style, but Toppin needs to be starting and playing 30mpg. This means benching Wheeler and making TyTy the primary ball handler. Wheeler would basically exchange minutes with Toppin and play 16mpg (or less) instead of the 30 he’s at now. We pretty much all, myself included wanted a 3 guard offense, and it’s been good obviously but I think going forward Toppin starting and playing minutes gives us the best chance in March. He is so versatile defending and his offense is not only picking up, he’s becoming one of the most efficient and productive offensive players on the team.

This basically comes down to Toppin > Wheeler which isn’t too controversial by itself. The argument against playing 3 bigs is obviously spacing. Toppin can put the ball on the floor though and both he and Keion are very good mid range shooters. And obviously the offensive production was still great with both in yesterday. TyTy and Grady are our best shooters and you’d still have Mintz with 20mpg+ off the bench who has been shooting great. Actually has 2nd best 3pt shooting percentage on the team now.

Yesterday was a great argument for a tight rotation and I think that’s the other obvious tweak. Play our 6 best as many minutes as they can handle. I think those 6 are established. It’s what we did in 2012 too. You have Ware or Collins to back up Oscar for 6-8 minutes, either or just depending on the matchup. I really like Hopkins going forward but it’s clear at this point he’s a spot minutes player on this team. He possibly gets 3mpg in some games if we have a lead and want to steal some quick rest for Toppin or Brooks. Allen should only play if there’s heavy foul trouble.

Tshiebwe- 34mpg
Brooks - 24mpg
Toppin- 30mpg
Grady - 36 mpg
Washington- 35 mpg

Mintz - 23mpg
Wheeler- 12mpg
Ware/Collins - 6mpg

I’m not trying to **** on Wheeler, but I want number 9. I’m convinced this rotation would give us the best chance.

You

 

[LmdCat]

I'm assuming Wheeler and Washington come back from injury. If they don't, yeah it is Mintz. If they do, Mintz isn't playing PG.

You are relying on a lot of ifs. Without a lot of bubble wrap, the ifs are not in your favor.

 

[LmdCat]

Could you not counter him without personal insults?

I believe you wanted to ask me if I could counter him without insults. Yes, I can, and I will. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[HagginHall1999]

You are relying on a lot of ifs. Without a lot of bubble wrap, the ifs are not in your favor.

I have no idea what you are talking about LMD.

Our starting back court is Wheeler and TyTy when healthy. I am pretty sure both are returning. Neither TyTy or Wheeler have been announced as out for the year.

When they are healthy they are PG-1 and PG-2. Mintz played PG yesterday put of necessity.

Is this clear enough for you? Good lord...

 

[HagginHall1999]

Could you not counter him without personal insults?

Pretty sure he/she woke up on wrong side of the bed today....

 

[LmdCat]

Pretty sure he/she woke up on wrong side of the bed today....

We have had one situation and you didn't like it. I made a commitment to play nice with you, but if you keep looking for a fight, I will oblige.

 

[HagginHall1999]

We have had one situation and you didn't like it. I made a commitment to play nice with you, but if you keep looking for a fight, I will oblige.

Well you've already picked at least two in this thread so have at it champ.

 

[UK-Chulo]

I believe you wanted to ask me if I could counter him without insults. Yes, I can, and I will. Thanks for the suggestion.

Not even sure what I typed there. I need a nap.

 

[LmdCat]

Well you've already picked at least two in this thread so have at it champ.

You are like shooting fish in a barrel. As I recall the last time you cried like a baby. How about setting in a corner somewhere and playing with yourself. I hear that is your favorite thing to do when you are not getting into someone else's business. I have already corrected things that you are acting like the cape crusader in

I have no idea what you are talking about LMD.

Our starting back court is Wheeler and TyTy when healthy. I am pretty sure both are returning. Neither TyTy or Wheeler have been announced as out for the year.

When they are healthy they are PG-1 and PG-2. Mintz played PG yesterday put of necessity.

Is this clear enough for you? Good lord...

There you go again with another qualifier, when they are healthy. Well, they weren't healthy, and we won without them. Their health has become something that the team can't count on so thank God for Mintz who you can count on.

 

[HagginHall1999]

You are like shooting fish in a barrel. As I recall the last time you cried like a baby. How about setting in a corner somewhere and playing with yourself. I hear that is your favorite thing to do when you are not getting into someone else's business. I have already corrected things that you are acting like the cape crusader in

There you go again with another qualifier, when they are healthy. Well, they weren't healthy, and we won without them. Their health has become something that the team can't count on so thank God for Mintz who you can count on.

Ok, nm, I'm not going to debate with a 12 year old.

You just like to stir up crap LMD. It is easy to see.

Have a blessed day. Cheers.

 

[HerrosHeroes]

Different match ups sometimes different line ups would be better. Sometimes though it's bad to mess with the line ups this late in the year.

This- I just hope Cal isn't too stubborn to recognize said matchups. That being said Cal historically has loved playing 3 bigs.
Man this team is versatile as hell.

 

[bucsrule8872]

I just want to be healthy. When healthy I take our top 7 over pretty much everyone else’s.