PSU - Iowa Dual Thread
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
Warner was damn near pinned on that Dixie and the ref was preoccupied.
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Ironic that this subject comes up as I’m reviewing the comments from last night. One minute ago my wife who teaches human anatomy out of the blue just explained to me about heredity with the genetic variation based on ‘a number of genetic separate’ - blah blah…during reproduction. Amazing these guys ended up as college wrestling coaches at the same school. And yet, there’s a special on them coming up right after the meet. You can’t make this up.
Agreed. Bull's wife, who I think works for the program in some way, has the 1000 yard stare. Sheesh.
Iowa will never beat us in a tournament setting this year. They had their shot in their own backyard. Cael and staff will make the necessary adjustments for the big ten tournament. We’re simply better. Hopefully our guys widen the gap. That should be the key moving forward.
Yep. What I don't get is I think the ref even counted for back points near the end of the period, but somehow not even a reversal was given. There was some frustrating officiating last night. Like taking a really long time to award our wrestlers points when they had control and stall calls on our guy after he had just taken a shot, for example. I do give them credit for realizing that Kemerer's "takedown" came after the whistle.
We got home late last night so I watched this on replay. In the family room we have seven comfortable seats and seven bar chairs to sit on but I found it more comfortable to stand and sway and bend and shout. I actually dropped the f bomb after the Bartlett vs Murin match. My wife was still up working on a puzzle. She gave me the look. A number of my comments (to no one in particular) were directed at Rivera. I used to think that he was a good ref, but over the past few years it seems like he’s ‘lost’ sometimes, he isn’t consistent. I think that’s why I don’t want him reffing a match my guy is wrestling in. He’s so inconsistent. Come on man
Iowa usually peaks at the Big Ten Tournament, don't you know?
I forget to DVR the match, so I'm going from memory. I recall thinking at the time that the ref was counting out for stalling, as Warner was locked below the waist but still being treated as in control. I'm not sure if that's what was happening -- just what I recall thinking Rivera was doing.
My interpretation was that he was counting out for stalling. If he was counting back points, he would have awarded the reversal first.
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I think you're right, but it should have been a reversal with a near-fall count IMO. Gibbons said he thought on review it might be called a reversal, but the refs let it stand.
I rewatched it. My memory failed me a bit - this was all at the end of the first period. Warner was in control, but prone and hanging onto Dean's leg with Dean on top of him when the ref started counting for stalling, then Dean did the Winn Dixie and had Warner's back exposed, but no count for that. It was all one flurry - should have been a reversal and near-fall.
Beacuse he is!!! How fair is it that all those guys get more than 4 bites at the apple in NCAA's? It's completely ridiculous!!!!!
The refs are afraid of the Brand brothers and a lot of bad things happen in Iowa. To beat Iowa in Iowa takes a coach like Cael that the Brands can only dream about being. They are both thugs and should be treated as such by the Refs and penalty points should be assessed, that would end the Bull s! My dad was a ref and dealt with HS coaches and crowds that were out of control, he took no crap and never had a problem, was requested for a lot of big time rivalary matches because of his reputation. The Brands should be banned for their match behaviour. Iowa fans and wrestlers take their cue from their thug coaches and it's not good for wrestling!!
I don't mind them shouting at their kids but I vehemently dislike them rooting against the opponent. Might be OK at times when it is egregious but in amature athletics to constantly scream at the ref about the opponent is in my mind classless. I don't like the running to the scorers table and onto the mat. Might be able to look away at times but it seems they do it every match.
Agree. I’ll add that they frequently point at the opposing coaches and bench yelling and taunting them. At what point does the B1G (or at least the refs for Iowa matches) get tired of this clown show and discipline them for it? Terry picked up a shoe and was waving it at the PSU bench and twisting it while insinuating that RBY was doing something dirty during the ADS match. The irony is that ADS has the dirty reputation and actually stood up and made contact with the ref last night while arguing and got away with it. Do they not have any connection with reality?
To add to my previous post, shouldn’t DeSanto have been DQ’d for making contact with the ref while arguing? I don’t think I have ever seen that? Maybe Tom or anyone else who coaches or refs can help me out here?
Also, the clock operator gave Iowa some major home cooking last night. Any time there was a chance the Iowa guy could get some points at the end of a period, the clock mysteriously froze or reset for an exorbitant amount of time. That person should not be allowed to run the clock on a college wrestling event again.
Also, the clock operator gave Iowa some major home cooking last night. Any time there was a chance the Iowa guy could get some points at the end of a period, the clock mysteriously froze or reset for an exorbitant amount of time. That person should not be allowed to run the clock on a college wrestling event again.
Now I'm confused. Wasn't it a 'danger' count? I'm sure I'll have to look up the rule, but if the danger count reaches 3(?), the takedown (or reversal in this case) would have been awarded. But time ran out.
I thought it was a good match, but Dean was really savvy, definitely more experienced.
I might be confused, too - but I think the danger count is supposed to be from neutral (unless they've tweaked the "Heil" rule) and Dean was wrestling from the down position when all this happened.
you're correct.
Rule 4 (Scoring Meets and Matches), Section 2 (Takedown), Art. 3 (Neutral Danger Zone Takedown)
When in the neutral position, the referee shall announce a neutral danger signal (NDS) anytime a wrestler exposes their shoulders to the mat at any angle less than 90 degrees (neutral danger zone). The danger zone utilizes near fall criteria outlined in Rule 4.5.1, but replaces 45 degrees with any angle less than 90 degrees. The NDS announcement shall occur anytime a wrestler is voluntarily or involuntarily in the neutral danger zone, beyond reaction time, and will continue until the wrestler is out of the danger zone or a takedown is awarded.
Well, then now I’m really confused. I need to watch it again. I have no idea what was being counted.
Sorry if I haven’t followed along enough to know exactly what you are talking about, but I believe he was counting Warner holding onto the leg from the top position. Unfortunately, while doing that, he completely missed that control was lost by Warner and gained by Dean and Dean had Warner’s shoulders to the mat and was controlling him as time expired.
Thanks. In retrospect, it hit me that that's the only logical call. I do need to watch it again. I recall that it seemed like he started counting when Warner got in "danger" but it must have been the same time that he got below the waist. I agree with you and Gibbons that Warner was no longer in control. Cael had a funny look/smile as he was walking away - like, you blew it, but oh well.
‘Logical call’ is not a phrase I would use with an Angel Rivera match.
Re the clock operator: at best they were incompetent, if not cheating. They almost cost Starocci the match. Were there any other instances than 174 where something weird happened with the clock?
He should have definitely been DQ. If a PSU would ever do anything like that Cael would take care of things. Brands ENCOURAGES such behavior. No way in heck would my son ever wrestle for him. Just ask Thomas Gilman and many others who have wrestled for him about his Coaching and the kind of crap he tells guys. Refs leave him act like a child which is terrible for the sport.
The Brands Brothers must have really done him dirty. Would Snyder do the same thing if tOSU was #2?
I definitely prefer Cael's style over the Brands Brothers. I'd say Jim Zalesky (a 3-time champ and 4-time AA himself) was probably more like Cael than he is like the Brands Brothers. More laid back and cerebral. But, while he had some success as a coach, Hawk fans wanted the Brands Brothers and that's what they got. For the fan base, at least, the Brands Brothers are a reflection rather than a tone-setter.
I highly doubt it. I think Tony Ramos is another ex-Hawkeye who may not be enamored with the Brands post-graduation.
I give Angel credit for one thing. Eirmann needed a lunger and pulled off some tape on his fingers and was headed to his corner and Angel told him, stay here. Angel kept Eirmann from getting that lunger. Honestly I think Angel made some iffy calls for both sides. C* not getting taken down could have gone either way. He could have hit RBY for stalling and sent it to OT. Angel didn't really determine the final outcome and that's all that matters. Now, some of his calls at Rec Hall are another matter.We got home late last night so I watched this on replay. In the family room we have seven comfortable seats and seven bar chairs to sit on but I found it more comfortable to stand and sway and bend and shout. I actually dropped the f bomb after the Bartlett vs Murin match. My wife was still up working on a puzzle. She gave me the look. A number of my comments (to no one in particular) were directed at Rivera. I used to think that he was a good ref, but over the past few years it seems like he’s ‘lost’ sometimes, he isn’t consistent. I think that’s why I don’t want him reffing a match my guy is wrestling in. He’s so inconsistent. Come on man
Sad but true. Took a quick peek at the HR board and they're just as peeved as we are.
