Question for the "we're not ready for this yet" crowd

[57stratdawg]

Which aspect of the program, specifically, still needs development before you'll feel good about playing a BCS school OOC?

Talent level? I don't see a Mullen coached team at MSU being much deeper than this one. We even have serviceable depth at QB and WR.

Stadium was just expanded. Does it need more people?

Revenues? We're one of, if not the, fastest growing programs by % in the country. I think that starts leveling off in the next 3+ years.

Facilities? We just built the football only complex. Does it need to be expanded?

I don't understand what another 5-10 years of averaging 7 wins is going to give us that we don't have already. Maybe someone can clarify for me.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

With a 12 game schedule it's no harder to get 6 wins than it was

With 11 games and no tough opponent.

 

[121Josey]

Not in the crowd, but the correct answer is being able to beat 3 SEC teams. You can spend whatever you want, but all that matters is what's on the field.

We're going to have a good team next year. But then what? We're not a perennial Top 25 team in hardly any respect. So, why would I want to schedule a Top 25 team? It's not like DWS has become a feared placed to play for opponents.

 

[00Dawg]

It's not so much any BCS school as it is the big names. If the commissioner is going to get us games with Indiana, Wake Forest, and Colorado, that's great (note that these guys wouldn't play us of their own accord). If we're stuck with USC, Ohio State, and Miami, the talent level and depth still isn't there, particularly on the O-line.
We can point at our recruiting rankings and gloat compared to what it was most years under Croom, but the bottom line is that we still have to find hidden gems for about half our scholarships, because we can't land the big fish. That's a recipe for likely another loss if we're playing Top 20 OOC teams.

Right now the kids in high school can still remember when we sucked, and sucked hard. Another 5-10 bowl games, and that will no longer be true. We need to continue to upgrade our talent level, and for us that means we need to be consistent winners for a while. Don't agree? Look at our 2015 class. It's already shaping up to be Mullen's best yet because the recruits see stability and consistent winning, yet you'll need 3 years to see it's real impact, and we have to follow it up with progressively better classes to compete with 8 SEC teams plus an OOC equivalent. Note that even now we still have trouble landing the Leo Lewis's of the world. We need a few more years to see how much consistent winning can help us in recruiting.

 

[BigMotherTucker]

Im in the build it slowly camp. We are only 4 years removed from the worst decade of college football Ive ever sat through. Scheduling Ok State last year was premature and it almost cost us a bowl bid. I realize there is a faction of our fan base that could care less about the Liberty Bowls and what not but they are important to our growth. That same faction also define our team on if we beat Alabama or not. Well if it isnt abundantly clear, we arent in the same football universe as Alabama. They are pulling further and further ahead of us and scheduling a top 25 non conference schedule will not help us catch up to them. We need wins... Wins get positive exposure... Which starts turning top recruits heads our way... Which closes the gap between us and the Alabamas. Getting skull 17ed by Ok State to open a season does not help us in the least.

All that being said... We may be ready to make that step. Hell, I dont know... What the 17 do I know. When we do make the step and start with the tougher teams, I hope we're ready.

 

[57stratdawg]

I don't think the 2015 class has much to do with winning and stability. We have ins with several of the top players which is helping more than anything. That will completely flip in 2016 as OM has their claws in deep with them. That's the MS recruiting.

Mullen's first class saw OM finish in the top 10 or 15, but we took Bumphis, Cox, Boyd, Russell. A few years later we beat them in Oxford, they sign CJ Johnson, Singleton, Brassell, Moncrief. My point is, if we ranked out all of the influences of MS HS kids when decidng between instate SEC schools, I think on the field results isn't at the top of the list.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Exactly.

It appears that Mullen and company have the ball rolling the right way and getting some momentum, why mess it up in the near future by making the schedule harder than it already is. I know Strat thinks bowl games are trivial but they aren't because of extra practice for the underclassmen. It's invaluable because you basically get an extra spring practice plus it's more money for the school.

We arent Bama or LSU and never will be. I'm sorry. And it's not the poor little state attitude it's just the effing truth and reality. They have way more resources and money than we could ever have. And I share those wonderful memories BMT has of Croomball. That wasn't too long ago.

 

[kired]

I don't have a problem with it. We've been lucky under Mullen to not lose to UAB, Bowling Green, Troy, and La Tech. You want to talk about setting the program back --- lose to one of those teams.

Replace those teams with BCS schools and maybe we're a little more focused and come out better prepared. If you lose the game, at least it's not as embarrassing as a non-BCS loss.

Just be sure you're scheduling three sure enough cupcakes for the rest of the schedule.

 

[Hanmudog]

Question: Has any upstart program ever built a program by playing half their schedule against the top 25?

I have no idea but did Virginia Tech, Louisville, or any of these type programs play 6-7 top 25 teams per year to show that they were on their way to the big time? Sure they once in a blue moon might have played a tough OOC opponent but their conferences were nothing like the SEC.

This notion that playing half the schedule against top 25, and sometimes top 10 teams, is somehow not enough and that we need to add a tougher team is some of the absolute stupidest **** I have ever heard.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

Is there a single upside to another tough game?

We already play a top 10 schedule every year. As a team that regularly gets our heads kicked in 3 to 6 times a year, the last thing we need is another kick to the head. An extra tough OOC game is only meaningful for teams vying for a playoff spot. There is zero upside to this for us. Even if we win, who cares? We will still have 3 or 4 losses on our plate in good years. Beating a patsy 9 of every 10 years in infinitely better than beating a good OOC team half the time.

 

[thatsbaseball]

What does it matter what anyone thinks, we`re there now. No more negotiations, no more procrastination....ready or not we now have an 8 game SEC schedule, 1 game with a BCS opponent and our 3 SWAC/weak sisters non conference games. Mullen either gets it done or we keep searching til we find someone who can. Whining about scheduling at this point is a moot point....time to move on and find a way to win in the situation we`ve been dealt. What other choices do we have ?

 

[thatsbaseball]

Florida State....on the road most of the time.

 

[johnson86-1]

Question: Has any upstart program ever built a program by playing half their schedule against the top 25?

I have no idea but did Virginia Tech, Louisville, or any of these type programs play 6-7 top 25 teams per year to show that they were on their way to the big time? Sure they once in a blue moon might have played a tough OOC opponent but their conferences were nothing like the SEC.

This notion that playing half the schedule against top 25, and sometimes top 10 teams, is somehow not enough and that we need to add a tougher team is some of the absolute stupidest **** I have ever heard.

^^^This^^^

What's wrong with just being in the top 25 SOS every year rather than in the top 5? We shouldn't be playing schedules that are tougher than what teams like FSU play. We're going to be top 25 SOS wise. I think the current reasonable goal for our program is to consistently be a top 25 team. That seems eminently reasonable to me. I would love for somebody to explain why they think it's not.

 

[HD6]

But they weren't in a conference that always has 6-8 top 25 teams and usually 3 top 10 teams. They played in the same conference as USM and Memphis for most of their growing years. They had to play those games to get national recognition. We do not.

 

[121Josey]

Recruits today are too young to remember the Croom years. Another 5-10 bowl games? We've been to 4 straight already, banking on 5 straight. State's a 10 win-season from being set up nicely for the next 5-10 years.

 

[thatsbaseball]

They we`re an independent from 1951 to 1991. They were an established program when they joined the ACC in 92.

 

[HD6]

Right. And it was in the 80's that they evolved into a top program. So thanks for proving my point.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Bowden built the program by scheduling the toughest opponents he could find and playing them anywhere they would play him. He won many tough games in the most hostile places imaginable. I have no idea what your point is but these are the facts about Bobby Bowden and Florida State.

 

[patdog]

Bowden's program got built at least as much by the change in population demographics in Florida from 1970 -1990 as anything else. Florida's population doubled, while the rest of the USA only increased by 20%.

 

[00Dawg]

Recruits today were 13 during our last losing season. That's junior high. I can remember games I attended back to age 7.

 

[HD6]

We were talking about how it's stupid to think that we need to add another top team to our schedule when we already played on average 3 top 10 teams per year. He asked if anybody had built a program scheduling more than half their schedule against top 25 opponents. You brought up Florida State. I pointed out they weren't playing a conference schedule like we do now. So while they did play 3-4 games a year against top opponents, they played 7-8 games a year against USM, Memphis, and the other old Metro Conference schools.

 

[00Dawg]

By that logic, we can't improve our in-state recruiting results: it'll always be about who has what ties in each class. I don't buy that argument.

 

[aTotal360]

Talent level. Our offensive line is void of top tier talent. We assume Clayborn is going to be the next Gabe Jackson, but that's all assumption at the moment. It gets spun into "everyone is good enough to play multiple positions", but I read it as "no one is standing out".

 

[NCDawg.sixpack]

Talent level. Our offensive line is void of top tier talent. We assume Clayborn is going to be the next Gabe Jackson, but that's all assumption at the moment. It gets spun into "everyone is good enough to play multiple positions", but I read it as "no one is standing out".

This pretty much nails it. For whatever reason, Mullen has done a poor job recruiting top level talent for our offensive line, and that is going to prevent us from having the type of season we would like.

 

[121Josey]

FSU finished 1979 ranked #6 in the AP. Many of his opponents were from the Metro Conference that they were in in basketball. That's when they started playing around 5 Top 25 (4 reg. season) teams a year. It didn't last in the early 80s until 1987.

 

[RebelAlumnus]

There are people who don't think your program is "ready" for this? Really? You're an SEC program with a 6th year head coach, and you're not ready to play a BCS team as an OOC opponent? Anyone who really believes that should either be embarrassed of themselves or embarrassed of their program.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Thanks for the input.

 

[121Josey]

Recruits today were 13 during our last losing season. That's junior high. I can remember games I attended back to age 7.

I didn't say our last losing season. I said the Croom years. In 2009, we won 5 games and should have been bowl eligible. The 2015 recruits are 16-17. Mullen was hired 5 years ago. That puts them at 11-12 year old. At that age, they're still playing flag football.

They've known 5 years of sell-outs, 4 straight bowl games, and 4 of 5. Whatever they might claim to remember prior to age 10 is a distant memory.

In 2007 State played in the Liberty Bowl. So not all was slim and grim at the time.

How many football recruits do you think attend MSU football games at 7 years old? When I was 7, I was a State fan because of family, not the state of the athletic program. I went to my first State football game at age 12... and my family has had season tickets since forever.

 

[Hanmudog]

There are people who don't think your program is "ready" for this? Really? You're an SEC program with a 6th year head coach, and you're not ready to play a BCS team as an OOC opponent? Anyone who really believes that should either be embarrassed of themselves or embarrassed of their program.

Then you should be embarrassed by your program losing to that same program 4 of the last 5 years.

 

[RebelAlumnus]

If your current coach can't get it done by adding one marginally tougher game per year, maybe he shouldn't be the coach. This is the same approach I have with Freeze.

 

[00Dawg]

What D1 recruits turn 17 during their senior year? The 2015 guys will almost all be 18 during or immediately after the 2014 season, and some will be 19, and over here youth football starts at kindergarten, so I'm assuming it does in plenty of other places. Either way, they were still at a formative age when the Liberty Bowl interrupted a decade of suckage. We're playing with semantics to some extent, but the bottom line is that plenty of these guys weren't watching us win on TV, their childhood is not full of friends and relatives celebrating big Mississippi State seasons, and the highlight reels they saw did not feature maroon & white.
I do agree that a 10-win season will have some serious dividends, but we need to keep the winning streak going for a while yet before we start expecting to compete for SECW titles.

 

[57stratdawg]

We could have a staff full of guys like Tim Brewster. That's probably about it.

 

[121Josey]

Are you serious? Kids born during the summer months turn 17 during their senior year, unless they've been held back in school.

Say what you want, but these kids celebrate big Mississippi State seasons when they come to the MSU camps, get to know the coaches, and then follow the team through the season. The kids that State is recruiting now have had that since they were starting JR. high. Think about that!

 

[57stratdawg]

I agree. I bet 25-50% of the top players in the state in 2015 couldn't correctly answer Jerious Norwood's college and position at this point.

 

[Dawg1976]

Depth. We may be in better shape than we have been in a while, but that doesn't mean it will be easy getting to 8 wins this year. Until we get that point(8 wins or more) I guess I will be in the we're not ready crowd.

 

[00Dawg]

Yes, you will have a few students that turn 17 during the summer before their senior year (my wife was one). I'd be very curious to see how many play D1 ball, as I expect you'd see a Canadian hockey effect (read Outliers for the reference). Also bear in mind we're coming up on the class where holding back kids in or before kindergarten became fairly commonplace. 15-year old 8th-graders aren't uncommon anymore, and you can do the math from there.
It is nice to think about 4 years of success with a 5th coming up, but we still need a while to fully wipe away the effects of the Lost Decade.