Should we really be that upset? We have never in our history been a perrenial bowl team and Mullen has us set to go to bowl games in his second and third season. We have to accept that a true changing of the guard at MSU is going to take a while. Right now we are still in the process of solidifying a spot as a 3rd tier team in the West. Alabama, LSU, Auburn---Arkansas---MSU----Kentucky, Ole Miss, and Vandy are the tiers I see right now. Arkansas is our next step. We need to consistently get to bowl games and win 8+ games a year. That cannot happen without time. Our best bet to win the West is to become consistently good and catch a great player that can push us over the top. A la Cam Newton.I got caught up in all the wool myself and the Auburn game crushed me but when I sat back and looked at the bigger picture Icame to peace with this season. We need to get 6-7 wins(beat Ole Miss)and win our bowl game and develop these younger guys. The recruiting tide will change in the state if we continue to win that game. Mullen hasn't done great this year but I see path he is following and I see light at the end of the tunnel.</p>
Rational fans only
- Thread starter trumaroon
- Start date
Should we really be that upset? We have never in our history been a perrenial bowl team and Mullen has us set to go to bowl games in his second and third season. We have to accept that a true changing of the guard at MSU is going to take a while. Right now we are still in the process of solidifying a spot as a 3rd tier team in the West. Alabama, LSU, Auburn---Arkansas---MSU----Kentucky, Ole Miss, and Vandy are the tiers I see right now. Arkansas is our next step. We need to consistently get to bowl games and win 8+ games a year. That cannot happen without time. Our best bet to win the West is to become consistently good and catch a great player that can push us over the top. A la Cam Newton.I got caught up in all the wool myself and the Auburn game crushed me but when I sat back and looked at the bigger picture Icame to peace with this season. We need to get 6-7 wins(beat Ole Miss)and win our bowl game and develop these younger guys. The recruiting tide will change in the state if we continue to win that game. Mullen hasn't done great this year but I see path he is following and I see light at the end of the tunnel.</p>
to a certain point but Mullen has pushed the expectation bar up higher than it ever has been by himself. He is encouraging these expectations by all his mighty talk and billboards and such and by expecting to be paid top dollar AND getting it! The days of us being overly patient for a slow increase in success are gone. He isn't getting paid top 20 money for 6 win seasons. 8 win seasons are now par for the course based on Mullens hype. He made the bed and now he has to sleep in it. We are 2-3 about to be 3-3 that means if Mullen can go 6-2 from here out he'll make it to 8-5 and everyone will be very pleased. He's gotta pull upsets vs USC or Arkansas I think to get there but 7-6 is a step back.
We shouldn't be upset because I think we should be pleased to be back in any bowl, and assuming Mullen can do it again next year, we should be thrilled. I have never been to a bowl game where I didn't have a good time and, as a fan, isnt that what it is all about? Every rational fan should have been able to at least see this scenario as a possibility this year. We are reviving a program that was on life support and doing so during an unparalleled era of dominance in the SEC West. Bama, LSU, Arkansas and Auburn have never been this strong at the same time...at least in my lifetime. String 3 bowls in a row together and you might see things start to change. <div>
</div><div>The yes part is because we have done some things to shoot ourselves in the foot. We should have beaten Auburn. We should have made better use of JUCO recruiting in the last class, particularly at DE and OL. There are others that I dont feel like going over. In my mind mistakes have been made but it is all relative. Mullen era mistakes are at least built on a solid foundation of smart coaching and a good scheme. I dont think we should ever stop questioning our coaches or administration when mistakes are made or be content with mediocrity. That said, I don't think what we are doing now (assuming we go 6-6 this year) should be considered mediocrity - not in this league, not in this division. Right now, getting bowl eligible in the SEC West is probably akin to finishing 4th in the Pac 12 or Big 10 or ACC. </div>
</div><div>The yes part is because we have done some things to shoot ourselves in the foot. We should have beaten Auburn. We should have made better use of JUCO recruiting in the last class, particularly at DE and OL. There are others that I dont feel like going over. In my mind mistakes have been made but it is all relative. Mullen era mistakes are at least built on a solid foundation of smart coaching and a good scheme. I dont think we should ever stop questioning our coaches or administration when mistakes are made or be content with mediocrity. That said, I don't think what we are doing now (assuming we go 6-6 this year) should be considered mediocrity - not in this league, not in this division. Right now, getting bowl eligible in the SEC West is probably akin to finishing 4th in the Pac 12 or Big 10 or ACC. </div>
the way he's pushing expectations up on everything else. You can only go so far on hard work, heart and desire. To get where he wants to go you've got to have some real difference makers on the field and to get those you usually have to win a few recruiting battles along the way.
of superior size, speed, etc. But we are beating ourselves. Kickoffs, punt malfunctions, dropped passes, false starts, dropped passes, etc. How many 17n' times is a pass going to bounce off of our recievers, straight into the air, resulting in an interception? If the 17n ball bounces off of you, above yourwaist,and into the air, you probably should have caught it. 17! Am I right? Maybe we should get the "Physics of Football"professor to do a segment next home game on the jumbotron, ya know, show the trajectory of a ball that bounces off a human being straight up. Then to drive the point home, the professor gets after Chris Smith with a bunsen burner and a thistle tube, or something.
Overall, I am satisfied with the results Coach Mullen has produced. But, there are certain things that I am totally unhappy with. Like spotting teams 14 points in both of our SEC road games. Like total incompetence on kickoffs. Things like that displease me. But on the whole, I love Dan Mullen's leadership and vision for our program.
it cannot be stressed enough how much more important it is just to make ANY bowl game and do the same next year. Sure your higher level bowls will probably speed up the process of building a programover going to Liberty's, Music City's...etc.. but there is absolutely no way to build a program at MSU just going to a bowl game every 4 or 5 years. While a 6-6 season with a lower level bowl would be seen as a bust when compared to preseason expectations, it would still be a solid piece of the puzzle and something else to build on.
As far as your question: "Should we be upset?"
1. Memphis: We did what we were supposed to do against them and what we were expected to do.
2. Auburn: Aside from the brainfart at the start of the game, we played pretty damn solid and if 9yds and 35" wasn't a first down on the plains, we still would have won despite that start.
3. LSU: Was pleased with the D except for the DB's being 12 yards off the ball (and still got beat deep for a TD?) and minimal pressure on the QB. I expected a little more out of the O but it was LSU's defense afterall so I didn't expect much.
4. LaTech: Again, DB's 12yds off the ball and minimal QB pressure made the midget look like Aaron Rodgers. By this time, our O-line was depleted yet we kept running up the middle straight behind our depleted O-line time after time instead of burning them on the edges with speed. (See UAB game last year where we absolutely refused to burn them with speed on the outside)
5. We FINALLY turned the D loose and brought the house in the 2nd half. Too bad the game was already over. On O, UGA made us throw the ball and we're good for about 2 passes in a row until we take a sack, miss an open receiver or throw an int.
With all of that said, I'm upset that our passing game is nowhere near where I thought it would be. Presently, we are not a threat to anyone with our passing game and that's what every team from here on out is going to force us to do. Defensively, I was pleased to see some QB pressure while also shutting down the run in the 2nd half vs. UGA. We're going to have to do that every game. The bend-but-don't-break may keep teams from hitting big plays but it damn sure allows them to flip the field since we rarely get 3 and outs playing soft corners and our O cannot drive the length of the field they way they are playing now.
As far as your question: "Should we be upset?"
1. Memphis: We did what we were supposed to do against them and what we were expected to do.
2. Auburn: Aside from the brainfart at the start of the game, we played pretty damn solid and if 9yds and 35" wasn't a first down on the plains, we still would have won despite that start.
3. LSU: Was pleased with the D except for the DB's being 12 yards off the ball (and still got beat deep for a TD?) and minimal pressure on the QB. I expected a little more out of the O but it was LSU's defense afterall so I didn't expect much.
4. LaTech: Again, DB's 12yds off the ball and minimal QB pressure made the midget look like Aaron Rodgers. By this time, our O-line was depleted yet we kept running up the middle straight behind our depleted O-line time after time instead of burning them on the edges with speed. (See UAB game last year where we absolutely refused to burn them with speed on the outside)
5. We FINALLY turned the D loose and brought the house in the 2nd half. Too bad the game was already over. On O, UGA made us throw the ball and we're good for about 2 passes in a row until we take a sack, miss an open receiver or throw an int.
With all of that said, I'm upset that our passing game is nowhere near where I thought it would be. Presently, we are not a threat to anyone with our passing game and that's what every team from here on out is going to force us to do. Defensively, I was pleased to see some QB pressure while also shutting down the run in the 2nd half vs. UGA. We're going to have to do that every game. The bend-but-don't-break may keep teams from hitting big plays but it damn sure allows them to flip the field since we rarely get 3 and outs playing soft corners and our O cannot drive the length of the field they way they are playing now.
I won't complain if two out of Mullen's first three seasons as a head coach lead to post season play. That, in itself, is progress. I hoped for more wins but will be happy if we can go 6-6.
biguglykidjoe said:
but you have to start looking at MSU as a top 20 program. All that we know before Mullen is no longer relative to current MSU. Here is why.
http://www.coacheshotseat.com/SalariesContracts.htm
I will take it step by step though. I don't expect us to go from crawling to running in three seasons, but i do have expectations of running.
Last year......."We're building something special here."
"Dan's the Man!"
"We have that swagger back!"
"Dan's the Man!"
"We have that swagger back!"
We've never been a perrin...pereni.....bowl team alot....and I'll be damed if i'd know what to do if we were.
****, we have to do something about how long it takes to change guards. 17ing tackles too.
But one thing we can all agree on. it is so nice to be out of that 17ing 4th tier. Jesus those guys never bathed or anything.
But I have to dissagree. We could certainly overcome Arkansas without time. Going to take alot of hits from a bong...
Who the 17 came up with this consistantly good ****? dayum. We arent 17ing southern miss here.
****************
seriously, you came to piece with this season....17....not me.
I'm pissed. Can we salvage? sure....but to keep mullen, we dont have a year to 17 off. We need to win something big soon and then keep him because he believes he can win it all. One more year of expectations down the drain and he'll be on double dates with Nutt.
****, we have to do something about how long it takes to change guards. 17ing tackles too.
But one thing we can all agree on. it is so nice to be out of that 17ing 4th tier. Jesus those guys never bathed or anything.
But I have to dissagree. We could certainly overcome Arkansas without time. Going to take alot of hits from a bong...
Who the 17 came up with this consistantly good ****? dayum. We arent 17ing southern miss here.
****************
seriously, you came to piece with this season....17....not me.
I'm pissed. Can we salvage? sure....but to keep mullen, we dont have a year to 17 off. We need to win something big soon and then keep him because he believes he can win it all. One more year of expectations down the drain and he'll be on double dates with Nutt.
I was upset at Croom. I was upset at Larry Templeton.<div>
</div><div>This year has been a string of bad luck with 3 OL guys going down in a year when we had no OL depth to start with. This season would be a LOT different with a healthy OL.</div><div>
</div><div>A Mississippi State just doesn't have much depth. It took Sherrill years to have quality depth. Mullen will get there.</div><div>
</div><div>I'm not upset, just crushed. Actually I've gotten over it. I was really crushed after the Auburn loss.</div><div>
</div>
</div><div>This year has been a string of bad luck with 3 OL guys going down in a year when we had no OL depth to start with. This season would be a LOT different with a healthy OL.</div><div>
</div><div>A Mississippi State just doesn't have much depth. It took Sherrill years to have quality depth. Mullen will get there.</div><div>
</div><div>I'm not upset, just crushed. Actually I've gotten over it. I was really crushed after the Auburn loss.</div><div>
</div>
The real step back was the 2000 to the 2001 season. Since then we have been to two bowl games. Going 7-6 and getting to a second consecutive bowl games is not a set back. Hell the man is only in his third year and if he can get to a bowl game two of those three years after taken over a team that only had one lucky winning season in ten year. He is a freaking genius.
You wrote:
["He made the bed and now he has to sleep in it. We are 2-3 about to be 3-3 that means if Mullen can go 6-2 from here out he'll make it to 8-5 and everyone will be very pleased. He's gotta pull upsets vs USC or Arkansas I think to get there but 7-6 is a <nobr><font color="#f35b00">step</font></nobr> back."]
You are freaking crazy to even think about posting that ****. Go back to playing your NCAA 2012. Seems to me that's where you get all you college football knowledge. Busting on Stansbury is one thing. He's been there a long time and is deserving of the criticisms he gets but Mullen? Hell no, that guy has brought something to Miss State that we haven't seen in a long time. Damn just sit back and enjoy. Just a few years ago if we were sitting at 2-3 with UAB, Tenn Martin, KY and a ****** ole Miss team at home left to play. We would all be on here growing wool. Everyone needs to settle down.
You wrote:
["He made the bed and now he has to sleep in it. We are 2-3 about to be 3-3 that means if Mullen can go 6-2 from here out he'll make it to 8-5 and everyone will be very pleased. He's gotta pull upsets vs USC or Arkansas I think to get there but 7-6 is a <nobr><font color="#f35b00">step</font></nobr> back."]
You are freaking crazy to even think about posting that ****. Go back to playing your NCAA 2012. Seems to me that's where you get all you college football knowledge. Busting on Stansbury is one thing. He's been there a long time and is deserving of the criticisms he gets but Mullen? Hell no, that guy has brought something to Miss State that we haven't seen in a long time. Damn just sit back and enjoy. Just a few years ago if we were sitting at 2-3 with UAB, Tenn Martin, KY and a ****** ole Miss team at home left to play. We would all be on here growing wool. Everyone needs to settle down.
start somewhere and build going forward. FSU for example was pretty much a bottom feeder then boom, the right coach came in and they took off really never looking back. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither can a successful program. That said, if we always look back at records or how many back to back this or that happened, we're gonna be comparing ourselves to ourselves and really that gets us nowhere. Hell, if State fans always did that, we'd settle for an 8 win year twice a decade and be fine with it. Mullen's the right coach to get us there I still believe also.He's got all of 3 years of head coaching experience. I think sometimes we forget that. Some of thescratch your head moments(fake punts fromnot so adventageousfield position) willprobably start to fade and I trust that Mullen's the type that will make proper adjustments.As for being upset, there has to be some warrant justified with a 16th ranked preseason team returning several starters. Not fully justified but certainly understandable. But it's not like we lost to the nobody's of the world. We just happened to lose 3 league games to teams that going in, we knew were toss ups to begin with. That's the toughest thing about the SEC. Auburn, LSU, and Georgia will be toss up games 90% of the time whether we were 9-4 last year or 0-12 or 13-0. That said, it's always going to be that way so I like your take on it going foward. Consistently go to bowls, make sure you hang into that 7 win a year areaand hopefully the higher profile recruits filter in that will get you to into the next level.
You have to realize that Mullen is the lowest paid coach in the West and we play 7 teams this year that pay theircoaches more. I am very happy with Mullen and the with the shape of our program only 3 years removed from the Croom days. We should have beaten Auburn, the refs and a bad start killed us in that game, injuries, a subpar qb, and a tough schedule is the reason for the 2-3 start. That being said, I will be more than happy with a 7-6 season that includes a bowl victory and a win over Ole Miss. If you would have told me that Mullen would start off his career at MSU with a three year record of 21-17, 3 in a row over Ole Miss and two bowl victories, I would have been ecstatic especiallyafter dealing with the Croom era. Throw in the fact that the SEC West is more powerful than ever, Relfhas beenour startingqb, and that we earned this success without buying players, I probablywould have never believed you. Eleven straight sellouts, only losing one game during his tenure to a team that we were favored to beat who happens to be the defending national champs, I am pleased(slightly disappointed after the goals we had set following last year) with Mullen and the with the direction that our program is headed.
Big D said:
fan since 1996. I didn't set the expectations. Dan and the University did. I just understand them. Do you? Study this list and think about it in a business outlook not as a fan. Dan expected and required a salary in the top 20 of all head coaches. State gave it to him. Now guess what? Mississippi State has expectations of Dan Mullen to meet his salary that was given to him. It's business man. Am I ecstatic that Mississippi State has the ability to pay a salary like that? Damn right I am. Now I want the University to back their pay and EXPECT Dan to deliver on his promises.
http://www.coacheshotseat.com/SalariesContracts.htm
If things go as I expect them to go for the remainder of the season, we'll end up 6-6. The two major differences between this year and last will be losing at Georgia and falling to SC as opposed to the win in the Swamp last year. In other words, we traded victories over the worst teams that two schools have had in a decade for two losses to pretty good teams. No reason to go jumping off a cliff due to that.
There are two things that I am disappointed about, however,
1. At one time, I thought that Mullen's top trait was being able to find talented coaches to surround himself with. This year, I'm a little skeptical of that for obvious reasons. Playcalling and in game decisions have been questionable to say the least. If this continues, I'll be very interested to see how Mullen handles it in the offseason.
2. It's no secret that Mullen didn't inherit a team full of world beaters when he took over. I was fully prepared to give him 3 years before seeing significant improvement on the field and in recruiting. Well, in spite of some of the losses, the improvement on the field is there but recruiting just isn't happening. It's killing us right now with our inability to cover for any injuries and the worst part is that I'm seeing zero positive trend for the future. That's bringing me to the harsh realization that a 6-6 record is about all we're going to be seeing for the foreseeable future, and yes, that's a little disappointing. Should we all be happy with 6-6 and going to a bowl game? Probably so if you're looking at history, but last year's performance really had me hoping that we were on our way to something special.
There are two things that I am disappointed about, however,
1. At one time, I thought that Mullen's top trait was being able to find talented coaches to surround himself with. This year, I'm a little skeptical of that for obvious reasons. Playcalling and in game decisions have been questionable to say the least. If this continues, I'll be very interested to see how Mullen handles it in the offseason.
2. It's no secret that Mullen didn't inherit a team full of world beaters when he took over. I was fully prepared to give him 3 years before seeing significant improvement on the field and in recruiting. Well, in spite of some of the losses, the improvement on the field is there but recruiting just isn't happening. It's killing us right now with our inability to cover for any injuries and the worst part is that I'm seeing zero positive trend for the future. That's bringing me to the harsh realization that a 6-6 record is about all we're going to be seeing for the foreseeable future, and yes, that's a little disappointing. Should we all be happy with 6-6 and going to a bowl game? Probably so if you're looking at history, but last year's performance really had me hoping that we were on our way to something special.
I thought we should have beaten Auburn, and had a decent shot at Georgia before our o-line injuires.
Now, I take to heart the immortal words of Walter from The Big Lebowski:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puIstclBcO0<span> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/puIstclBcO0?version=3&f=videos&app=youtube_gdata" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425" allowScriptAccess="never" ></embed> </span>
Now, I take to heart the immortal words of Walter from The Big Lebowski:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puIstclBcO0<span> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/puIstclBcO0?version=3&f=videos&app=youtube_gdata" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425" allowScriptAccess="never" ></embed> </span>
Miss State all time football record is below 500. Miss State has been playing footall since 1895 and have only been to 15 bowl games. We have never had a AD department like we got now. They understood the mind set of miss State fans. They had to change the attitude. They had to make us feel like winner even if we only won 5 games Mullen's first year. We are sitting at 2-3 with a good chance of going 7-5. You coming on here and busting on Mullen for trying to make the fan base feel good about them selves. What do you want him to do? Go out and say we might be lucky to get to a bowl game. Come on get real, he is only in his third season. We are a bottom feeder in the SEC and you can't not change that with three recruiting classes and only two of them his. Wait a few more years before coming on here with an defeated attitude. Things will turn out good but damn busting on a coach who has only been here two full seasons, taking over a really bad football team. That is just asinine. In two years if we are only winning 5 games then yes, run his butt off. All I can say to youis just damn.
...and we're on pace for 6-6 witha decent shot at making 7-5 (I picked us to lose to South Carolina and we have agood chanceat winning that game), so no I'm not too terribly upset. I did have visions of 4-8 briefly when multiple OL were injured against Auburn.</p>
is that if we win that one, there's a pretty decent chance that we'll be 4-0 in our next four games. If that happens, things will quickly go from doom and gloom to excitement again. Of course, the flip side to that is that if we lose against SC and blow the Kentucky game, things are going to get pretty ugly I'm afraid.
I think Mullen getting some criticism on the recruiting front is justified. Even with all the stuff you list I bet over the past 20 years under Sherrill and Croom our recruiting classes were, on average, every bit as highly ranked or moreso than what Mullen and staff are currently getting and that is extremely disappointing. I say that because up until now the 2 previous coaches haven't had the continued sellouts in a 56K stadium, the increased donations to build new football only facilities, an upgraded overall Starkville community for students and an all out backing from athletic and school administration. Yet, with all that, our recruiting level basically remains the same if not slightly lower than what we've had in the past. The only Top 30 class Mullen has had was largely put together by Croom. Like another poster said its hard to know that we can ever do much better than the 6 to 7 win level in the murderous SEC given when we are getting so few top ranked players signing with us. I know some of it is "playing the game" which Mullen isn't going to do but whatever is going on we have got to raise our level of recruiting to compete the way we all want to. We may be a "developmental program" but as you watch the scene across college football it becomes obvious that its very difficult to wait on a guy to be "developed" to where he is finally ready for the SEC in his JR year. We need a few more guys that can come in and be ready to play at a high level in the SEC as a SO or even a RFR. Just too many injuries and attrition to not have to depend on younger guys to be ready.
Big D said:
I'm just stating that with his new contract your expectations of MSU need to be looked at in a higher manner. We are forever going to have to pay top dollar for a coach because if you do it once you have to do it again. MSU is paying $2.5 million to be a bottom feeder and be happy with 6 wins? I don't think so.
I didn't make any type of W-L prediction, but I was optimistic coming into the season. I figured the defense would drop off, losing all the linebackers. Expected the offense to be a little better than last year, just based on the end of season success. I actually consider this year's schedule to be just a little bit easier than last year's....We have LSU, Bama, and USC at home, I thought UGA and Auburn would be having down years, and our non-conference opponents are even worse than last season. So, I was optimistic that we might - MIGHT - equal last year's 9 wins and maybe even pull off 10.
Now, I don't really follow recruiting, and I'm not even that familiar with State's depth chart. I had no idea the offensive line would drop off that much. Maybe I should have seen that coming, but, I honestly didn't think the line was terrific last season, so I expected it this year's to be pretty close in ability. I should have been concerned reading about the competition for the LT spot, but I blew it off.
And the bottom line is, I blame the coaches for putting us in this position. We can blame Croom's recruiting, sure, but its not as if this obvious weak spot was a surprise to the coaching staff. If you're not going to sign some JUCOs to shore things up, then design some offensive schemes that have a chance of succeeding with inferior linemen. You cannot just line up against SEC competition and run plays that have little chance of success.
Now, I don't really follow recruiting, and I'm not even that familiar with State's depth chart. I had no idea the offensive line would drop off that much. Maybe I should have seen that coming, but, I honestly didn't think the line was terrific last season, so I expected it this year's to be pretty close in ability. I should have been concerned reading about the competition for the LT spot, but I blew it off.
And the bottom line is, I blame the coaches for putting us in this position. We can blame Croom's recruiting, sure, but its not as if this obvious weak spot was a surprise to the coaching staff. If you're not going to sign some JUCOs to shore things up, then design some offensive schemes that have a chance of succeeding with inferior linemen. You cannot just line up against SEC competition and run plays that have little chance of success.
Even Vandy was offering the OC at Auburn 3 million. That's what was reported. The only thing I have been disappointed in Mullen is in recruiting. But I think that will change just by going to bowl games and him learning to be a closer. As a assistant you are not the closer for a top recruit. The head coach is and he will get better. I have been following MSU since 1977 when I went to my first football game in Jackson as a little boy. Trust me win six to eight games a year and occasionally win 9 or 10 you will have a street named after you in starkville. Just get to a bowl game every year and recruiting will get better and the team will get better. This is his third year at Miss State and his third year as a Head Coach. There is a learning curve for any new job.
Dan is just going to have to learn and improve on the recruiting front especially closing from the HC position. Not every assistant has a big learning curve on the recruiting front when moving into a HC position but that is primarily those who were ace recruiters as assistants and Dan is not one of those. Dan is much more into running a program and the X and Os of football than recruiting, its not something he really enjoys that much and it does not come naturally to him to schmooz and be a salesman but he will have to learn that unless he gets a HC job at a place that basically recruits itself.