Ray = Croom.

[AlanDawg]

It's more evident now than ever that Coach Ray is to the basketball program as was Croom to the football program.

If we go ahead and count this year as not making it to a post-season tourney in basketball(we will NOT win SECT) then that is two horrendous seasons in Ray's first year as coach.

So next year State should make the NIT and if we do I am all for giving Ray SEC Coach of the year, which would make sense considering how absolutely terrible his first two seasons have been.

They also stand similar as to cleaning up the program. We all know the players Ray has kicked off/let go(Lewis, Steele etc.) Croom did the same thing in his tenure and payed the consequences in being "asked to resign."

So as the final part of the correlations, Ray will be gone after 2 more years as it seems most of the people on this board would like.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

We all know the players Ray has kicked off/let go(Lewis, Steele etc.)

I don't get the criticisms for Ray over these two players. It seems to be widely agreed upon that Wendell Lewis smoked his way off the team. If that is true, I don't know how you blame that on the coach. I doubt he was the supplier, the dealer, or the guy texting Wendell every day at 4:20. When you fail three drug tests as Wendell is rumored to have done, you are gone. Not kicked off by Rick Ray - gone per policy of the Athletic Department. Then there's Jalen. He was medically cleared to play basketball THIS SEASON but he wanted to redshirt and come back next year. Maybe he thought he wasn't healthy enough. Maybe he thought the team would be better next year and he wanted to be a part of a winner. Maybe he just loves being a college basketball player and wanted to extend that experience by another year. Regardless of his reason, at the time the request was made there wasn't a scholarship available for next year so the request was denied. He was told that he could play this season since he was cleared to do so, but he didn't want to do that, so he spun that into somehow getting kicked off the team or whatever.

Rick Ray may end up being a terrible hire who we unceremoniously kick to the curb in March 2015 or 2016. I honestly hope that is not the case, but if it is, I hope there are better reasons for firing him than Wendell and Jalen.

 

[Seinfeld]

I am not at all happy with the current situation, but even I cannot get on board with that

The worst things that I can say about Ray right now are that he's shown an inability to effectively recruit and that he has a lot to learn about head coaching. It is clearly not due to a lack of effort, however, and I still hope that he somehow succeeds with all of my heart.

Croom, on the other hand, was a lazy fat 17 that never accepted an ounce of blame for a single failure associated with the football program, he had more stubborn pride than anyone I have ever encountered in my life, and to this day... that 17er still feels that he was wronged by Byrne and the MSU administration for not giving him a decade to actually accomplish something. He epitomizes the "it's always someone else's fault" persona which clearly makes my blood boil, and I'm as serious as a heart attack when I say that he doesn't deserve to ever step foot back on our campus.

Make no mistake, Ray has not done well in his first 2 years here, but he does not deserve that. I don't know of anyone that deserves that comparison

 

[DawgatAuburn]

^^^^^100000000% agree with every word of this.

 

[AlanDawg]

Let's also not forget the mysterious transferring of Dre Applewhite, I still haven't heard the skinny about it. He was getting plenty of playing time and would be a significant role for us right now. Also Ray kicked off Kristers Zeidakes who never even saw the basketball court for MSU

 

[Sutterkane]

That's an insult to Croom. Croom recruited multiple pro players. He also had at least one good year. I don't see anything pointing to us having a great year in year 4 with Ray.

Croom's problem is he couldn't coach Xs and Os for ****, and had an OC that was a good ol boy hire that he refused to get rid of.

 

[121Josey]

Ray > Croom

I fixed it for you.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

Ray=Typical College Basketball Coaching Hire

Unless you are one of the elite, hiring a new coach is always going to be a crap shoot.

And even the elite swing and miss from time to time.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

Yes, he did boot Zeidakes who transferred to Grand Valley State and guess what happened to him there. That's right - kicked off the team.

Applewhite - who knows. Other than a body, he wasn't a huge loss. We'll see how he does at Akron or whatever it was.

 

[121Josey]

That's an insult to Croom. Croom recruited multiple pro players. He also had at least one good year. I don't see anything pointing to us having a great year in year 4 with Ray.

"At least one good year". But you can't see us having a "great year in year 4 with Ray?" The key to a happy life is a short memory.**

Mississippi State Bulldogs (Southeastern Conference) <small>(2004–2008)</small>
2004	Mississippi State	3–8	2–6	6th <small>(West)</small>
2005	Mississippi State	3–8	1–7	T–5th <small>(West)</small>
2006	Mississippi State	3–9	1–7	6th <small>(West)</small>
2007	Mississippi State	8–5	4–4	T–3rd <small>(West)</small>	W Liberty
2008	Mississippi State	4–8	2–6	T–4th <small>(West)</small>
Mississippi State:	21–38	10–30
Total:	21–38

<tbody>
</tbody>

 

[Sutterkane]

Croom sucked every year but 07(and even then he still sucked) but at least we beat bama 2 of those years and Florida in 04. Who the hell has Ray beaten that gives any hope of doing anything positive?

 

[ronpolk]

Make no mistake, I'm not impressed with Ray thus far. However, he and croom's situation are not at all similar. Croom came into a full roster and some talent. Ray didn't have this luxury.

 

[AlanDawg]

So RonPolk are you suggesting that since Ray came into a incomplete roster we give him more than 4 years? It has been proven constantly in basketball that you can dramatically change a program in a year or two and with only one or two key players

 

[Seinfeld]

As the saying goes, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then and given enough time, Ray eventually will too. The difference, however, is that Ray is not a POS

 

[Son_of_34]

...True Story

Let's also not forget the mysterious transferring of Dre Applewhite, I still haven't heard the skinny about it. He was getting plenty of playing time and would be a significant role for us right now. Also Ray kicked off Kristers Zeidakes who never even saw the basketball court for MSU

Before graduating in December I stayed in Lakeside apartments with random roommates to avoid having to worry about subleasing my apartment in the spring. One night after hanging with friends I returned to my residence and could smell the reek of the sticky icky 10 feet from my door. I don't smoke but my roommates did so I was nothing new to me. Open the door and in the clouds of weed, I manage to make out a few familiar faces. There on the couch was Dre Applewhite and 2 other basketball players that are still on the team. Maybe his transferring had something to do with a recreational habit maybe not, but this was after the FGCU game and I think he transferred a week or two after.

 

[kired]

I won't even take the time to respond with a legitimate comparison - this is absurd.

Rays biggest fault to this point is lack of quality recruiting. I said it when he was hired - his #1 recruiting job should have been keeping Hood. If he convinces RH to stay, we're a completely different team.

We're playing guys that wouldn't 10 mpg for most SEC teams. Ware, Sword, and Ready are the only guys who would get over 20 mpg for a decent team. The rest would be role players. The fact that Cunningham and T. Moore play legit minutes is ridiculous. But sadly there is no amount of coaching that will change this. Ray has to get better players. Another season like this and I totally agree he needs to be gone. But it's all because of his inability to assemble enough quality players to compete - not because of his x's & o's

 

[was21]

agree with all. Also might add that Croom showed absolutely no respect for the fanbase nor the university as a whole. He practically flaunted his attitude about that. I never understood why many thought he was such "a wonderful man".

 

[Digging dog]

A pick 6 for 100 yards against a bad Heath Schula led Alabama team was the only thing that kept Croom from being completely "bowl-less".

 

[ronpolk]

So RonPolk are you suggesting that since Ray came into a incomplete roster we give him more than 4 years? It has been proven constantly in basketball that you can dramatically change a program in a year or two and with only one or two key players

I don't see how you could infer I would suggest keeping him 4 years by my comment. I'm simply pointing out that croom was God awful.

Back to Ray, no he should not stay 4 years. In fact, If I were the AD, I'd fire him after this year. For me, the only reason to keep him is if Malik Newman is in the bag and I don't believe that to be the case. His recruiting is awful and I'm not impressed with his coaching.

 

[rabiddawg]

Any success Crxxms had can be attributed to Ellis Johnson.

 

[pmack65]

I've read where Stansbury's recruits are Ware, Thomas, Sword and Johnson who just happen to be 4 starters for the most part. So that leaves Brochert , Bloodman, Davis, Ready and Applewhite as players recruited and signed by Ray who are playing presently, of course Applewhite transferred to that basketball hot bed Toledo. If that's incorrect please correct my error. Except for Ready those others were signed very late after recruiting was pretty much over and more so out of necessity to fill a roster plus 2 of them were lost to knee injuries. IMO Ware is a role player unless he toughens up and somehow gets some ups because he cannot leap. Thomas has potential but to inconsistent, Sword is a player and will get better and Johnson a role player at best. Now for Ray's recruits, Brochert he's gone and wasn't very good, Bloodman has improved but should only be a backup, Davis coming off a bad knee gets a pass, Ready can be a player with better supporting cast. The redshirts and new recruits who knows, point is there isn't much to work with the roster he has but IMO I think he can coach but can he recruit. Both go hand and hand if one is missing then he won't be successful. He will get one more year, possibly two depending on his 3rd year. Hard to compare him and Croom except Croom was stubborn and really wasn't qualified to lead a program. Time will tell.

 

[121Josey]

A pick 6 for 100 yards against a bad Heath Schula led Alabama team was the only thing that kept Croom from being completely "bowl-less".

Well, just for clarification, in 2007 Croom won 7 regular season games and the win against Bama in question came against Saban.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

So RonPolk are you suggesting that since Ray came into a incomplete roster we give him more than 4 years? It has been proven constantly in basketball that you can dramatically change a program in a year or two and with only one or two key players

What are your examples?

 

[Digging dog]

Well, just for clarification, in 2007 Croom won 7 regular season games and the win against Bama in question came against Saban.

He still was terrible aside from my skewed facts.

 

[FirstPoetsThenSunDoggy]

Any success Crxxms had can be attributed to Ellis Johnson.

That's not based on anything. Mumble mumble.

 

[FirstPoetsThenSunDoggy]

A pick 6 for 100 yards against a bad Heath Schula led Alabama team was the only thing that kept Croom from being completely "bowl-less".

That's pretty stupid. You must wish we had lost that game, since you seem to be saying that we didn't deserve the W. I'm personally proud of that win.

 

[Big Sheep81]

"First we have to wreck the program to see how bad the program is"**

nm

 

[AlanDawg]

So lets hear the other 2 basketball players that are on the team now.

Spill the beans

 

[AlanDawg]

Back to Ray, no he should not stay 4 years. In fact, If I were the AD, I'd fire him after this year. For me, the only reason to keep him is if Malik Newman is in the bag and I don't believe that to be the case. His recruiting is awful and I'm not impressed with his coaching.

I agree that Malik Newman is not in the bag. One his visit to campus he didnt even come to the game that weekend. Apparently he had something better to do. While we can argue that it is probably better for our recruiting purposes that he didn't attend the game due to poor performance and lackluster fan support and attendance.

Plus at least twice this year I have seen them show Malik's father on the jumbotron and Malik has never been there with him.

 

[HD6]

Mike Shula was the coach at Alabama. Heath Shuler was the quarterback at Tennessee. Nick Saban was the coach at Alabama in 2007. What didn't you 17 up in that reply?

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

How did it take 8 hours for someone to say something?

 

[esplanade91]

I agree that Malik Newman is not in the bag. One his visit to campus he didnt even come to the game that weekend. Apparently he had something better to do. While we can argue that it is probably better for our recruiting purposes that he didn't attend the game due to poor performance and lackluster fan support and attendance.

Plus at least twice this year I have seen them show Malik's father on the jumbotron and Malik has never been there with him.

I feel for Ray, but I would fire him after this season. In the most polite way possible.

I don't think Ray is a game changer, and I don't think he has what it takes to get MSU to where it needs to be. I DO think he was a good person to bring in for the purposes of fixing everything wrong off the court, and I think he was a PERFECT bridge between the much loved/hated Stans and whoever is next. And in that way then yes, I think he's our basketball program's Croom. JWS left his job much like Stans did with just about equal accomplishments and a guy who lost a lot of games, whether that be recruiting, being a lazy turd, or whatever (it's irrelevant), took his job. The guy who follows an MSU Hall of Famer is always going to be unfairly scrutinized. When we finally fired Croom for losing a **** ton of games we hired the OTHER coordinator (the one who didn't say no) from a successful program and he rode in on a magic carpet and suddenly no one remembered the Croom error or Jackie's last couple of years... suddenly it was "1941! 1998! Wooooo! JWS is a saint! Sell out Davis Wade!"

Ray was hired for the purposes of cleaning our program. You can argue Croom was, but LT legitimately thought he was the next Jimmy Johnson, so it's not a fair comparison. Ultimately I think Ray will do the same thing Croom did, and that is help us put a legend in the rear-view AND light a fire under our fans' asses.

I hope I'm wrong, by the way. I hope Ray gets Malik and we get back to going to the tourny every so often. I just don't see how someone overcomes this and the stigma it will leave for this regime. Would be so much easier to get recruits if we were able to (unfairly) pin these 2 years on the 'other' guy. Clean break.

 

[HD6]

Well I was doing stuff, I don't know about the rest of you people.

 

[Jammes]

Greeting all, my name is Jammes .

 

[mcdawg22]

You want to know the difference, here you go. If Ray is fired at the end of this year, I guarandamntee you he will not be on some 30 for 30 special four years down the road blaming the administration for his shortcomings. That's the difference, Ray is accountable, Croom was not. 17 your comparison with a golf cart.

 

[willi13]

What do you mean "you people"?

 

[Digging dog]

That's pretty stupid. You must wish we had lost that game, since you seem to be saying that we didn't deserve the W. I'm personally proud of that win.

I was pissed!!! That win gave him a raise an an extension (neither if which he deserved). And I'm almost convinced if LT was still at the helm fans (like yourself ) would still be happy with the ball bouncing our way and finding ourselves in a lower tier bowl every 3 or so years.
Btw I was supportive and went to the LB. The game sucked but I had a blast. A. Dixon just finally out-pounded their defense.

 

[thunderclap]

That's racist.