re: the Ray vs. Stans argument - an airing of grievances

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

re: the Ray vs. Stans argument - an airing of grievances

First, Rick Ray had nothing to do with any of this. He is our coach now and he deserves the support of our fan base whether you agreed with the Stansbury firing or not. Regardless of how things went down, the kids playing basketball in maroon, and white and their coaches, still represent Mississippi State University. That is something we should take pride in and they deserve all the support we as fans can give them.

With that in mind, the staunch supporters who refuse to support Coach Ray and who look for every opportunity to bad mouth our program and our new coach just prove a couple of things:

1. These "people" (a small minority imo) are loyal to Rick Stansbury (or to themselves) and not to Mississippi State University. If they were loyal to MSU, they would simply state that they disagree with the firing of Stansbury and then continue to support their school. No fan of MSU should ever actively desire for an MSU team/coach to fail.

2. Stansbury obviously has asked, and perhaps still asks, his closest supporters and boosters to not support the new coach and/or the program in an effort to get the "last word" and be able to say "I told you so". The "rumors" have been swirling since he was fired that he has done what he can to "sabotage" the program, and hell, all you need is to be lucky enough to follow any of his old boosters or their family/friends/etc.. on twitter to see that it's pretty obvious. Add to that the continued message board posts you see from guys like 99pj (or whatever his handle is) and it really does nothing to detract from this.

Whether you like the way things went down, supported Coach Stansbury, or simply think the AD bungled the coaching search, Coach Ray will be our coach for the next few years at least. I for one hope that he is wildly successful, because as an MSU fan I want all of our coaches to be successful. No coach, player or booster is bigger than the University. It appears some people need to remember that.

I hate to continue to rehash these issues, but it infuriates me to continue to watch people deliberately put a former coach ahead of the University that we all love.

 

[Coach34]

I expected all this- anybody would when you see how they have defended everything Stansbury the last 8 years on here.

However, the only thing that bothers me is them not ackowledging the 2 blown out ACL's and the broken wrist from guys that would be major contributors this season. Acting like we are this bad because of Ray is assinine

 

[engie]

Excellent post... agreed with all that.

 

[GloryDawg]

My questions is this.........

How many posters here are hoping that coach Ray fails just so that they can tell Coach 34 "I told you so"? I would like to see a poll on that.

 

[DAWG61]

I've moved on from Stansbury. The issue I have with Ray is that after 8 months on the job he's added zero walk-ons. He's signed and recruited guys from about 10 different states yet he's failed to recruit his own school in a time he desperately needs to. It was beyond embarrassing to hear the announcers talk about our bench today and flash Baxter Price on the screen. To fly to Maui and play 3 games in 3 days with 2n1/2 guys on the bench is just negligent coaching and management of a team. He felt the need to kick off 2 players and suspend a 3rd and he also chose to save a spot for next years class. That's all fine and good if he had a backup plan but he didn't. Instead he forced 6 players to all play 35+ minutes 3 days in a row. I wonder if those 6 guys would have wanted the 4 players Ray chose to not have with them? Did he really have to kickoff the Euro and Shaun Smith? Really? What did they do that was so bad that they couldn't of just been disciplined in some other way? All Ray did was 17 himself and his team or what's left of one. It looked like Ray wanted to quit today.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Because when he took over we didn't just have 8 total players

He didn't know he was going to have 2 season ending injuries, a broken wrist and a discipline issue. Add those 4 to what we took with us and you have 10 scholarship players and 2 walkons. Sure, he could have grabbed a couple more walkons from the Sanderson, and if I remember correctly they actually had try-outs. But being a Sanderson Center all-star does not mean that you could contribute, even in practice, to an SEC level basketball team in college. 12 players is plenty to practice.

Most people balling out in the Sanderson are not in any way, shape or form in good enough condition to play college ball, regardless of their skill set. You'd be hard pressed to find guys who could contribute that are not busy playing football, are already on the team, or who have no eligibility left (lots of former football and other sports stars play in there, or at least they did when I was there).

Just my thoughts anyway.

 

[HailState39110]

excellent post

I've moved on from Stansbury. The issue I have with Ray is that after 8 months on the job he's added zero walk-ons. He's signed and recruited guys from about 10 different states yet he's failed to recruit his own school in a time he desperately needs to. It was beyond embarrassing to hear the announcers talk about our bench today and flash Baxter Price on the screen. To fly to Maui and play 3 games in 3 days with 2n1/2 guys on the bench is just negligent coaching and management of a team. He felt the need to kick off 2 players and suspend a 3rd and he also chose to save a spot for next years class. That's all fine and good if he had a backup plan but he didn't. Instead he forced 6 players to all play 35+ minutes 3 days in a row. I wonder if those 6 guys would have wanted the 4 players Ray chose to not have with them? Did he really have to kickoff the Euro and Shaun Smith? Really? What did they do that was so bad that they couldn't of just been disciplined in some other way? All Ray did was 17 himself and his team or what's left of one. It looked like Ray wanted to quit today.

I couldnt agree more. Ray went Croom and kicked off everybody off the team. Why didnt Ray suspend Shaun Smith and Zedakis(?) for 5 games ? Mullen didnt do this when he came in . In fact, he even brought Arecto Clark back to the team after being let go. It makes no sense at all . Just think if Ray could have kept Rodney Hood from tranferring . We would have a pretty good nucleus to at least make the NIT: Hood, Steele, Lewis, Shaun Smith, Zedakis, Ware, Thomas,Sword, Ro Johnson, etc. INstead we are playing Baxter Price and Cunningham because we cant even fill a roster. I will say this: Rick Ray has a pass this season and I have already thrown it out the window, but basketball is the easiest sport to compete in and you dont need a 5 year rebuilding project to be successful . I fully expect him to make the NCAAs by year 4 and the NIT by at least season 2 or 3 . In fact, there is no 17in way Ray makes the NIT next year by the hole he has dug himself in . It will be at least year 3 before we are at least respectable, and I dont know if Ray can get out of this mess he originally created (ala Croom)

 

[thf24]

EXACTLY. I already posted this a few days ago, but guess who the first Sanderson player anyone would have identified as a possible contributor had a time of desperate need existed two years ago: Tyson Cunningham. It's obvious how badly you want more bodies on the bench, 61, but it's 99% certain that's all anyone you went to the Sanderson and added today would be: bodies. There's just too much of a talent gap, both physically and mentally, between D-1 caliber players and the best rec ballers. And the discussion of football players lending a hand is moot too. Even if Dan was willing to loan a few, you'd only be able to realistically fill the guard positions, and even then it's highly unlikely that even the high school basketball players would be able to contribute any time soon, even if they had no rust in terms of the basics, due to having zero instruction in college-level technique and zero knowledge of the system.

 

[kired]

Most guys don't want to walk on anywhere. Put in a buttload of work just to ride the bench for 39 minutes of most games.

And have you ever seen what a guy like Riley Benock could do in the Sanderson center? You'd swear he was a white Michael Jordan after watching him play in that setting. Point being, even our crappy walkons are better than just about anybody you'll find on campus.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Why keep players on the team if they refuse to buy in?

I'm not saying this is what happened, because I don't know. But I highly doubt he just willy-nilly decided to kick players off the team for no good reason. And are you seriously suggesting that he shouldn't suspend players for breaking the team rules? If he suspended a player and then backed off of it just because we are thin, THEN we'd know we have a problem.

ETA: how do you just gloss over the fact that we have injuries? You don't plan on injuries, they just happen. But you don't make decisions such as suspensions or team dismissals thinking about injuries...

 

[esplanade91]

When Ray came in and spouted discipline I was all "hell yeah!" because we have had THE WORST product from the lack of it on and off the court for the last 5 years, but then like 3 weeks ago he kicked off what were projected to be 2 of our best players and didn't explain it to anyone. One guy was European and thug as hell, so I assume it was weed, and since Smith got kicked off with him I assume the same.

That's cool. STRONGLY dislike weed. Hold it up there with heroin. Don't sacrifice your beliefs and morals, and make them pay for breaking the law and your rules against weed... But what good are you doing these kids and yourself by kicking them off? "Work your *** off knowing you won't play a minute of basketball for the first 10.. 15... Whatever games..." is a better lesson than "leave and never come back"... Especially when you don't even publicize it so everyone including recruits know you're serious about your drug policy. That could be about anything, it doesn't have to be about weed. Practice, studying, grades, 17'n parking tickets.

Then you suspend Brochert? But kick off the other two? I HATE comparing these two, but it is Croom justice. Inconsistent and shotty at best, and I don't get the impression that he's trying to better these kids more than I get the impression that he's trying to come off as a hard *** looking for some sympathy from fans because "I don't have players and I demand discipline".

What recruit wants to read on Ray's twitter that he's making them go to study hall in Hawaii because they lost so bad? What good does that even do when they're technically already on Thanksgiving break?

I couldn't stand Stansbury as a coach, and he pulled out in front of me on campus one time and he gave me the worst stink eye ive ever witnessed so we have beef on the streets too, so I was pumped when MSU gave him the finger... I would have taken Big Bird as coach. So I'm not angry at Ray yet. I'll go to games this year because I like MSU and they're fun regardless, but I'm not sold on the way he runs a program yet.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

How do you know Borchert had the same crime as Smith/Zedaiks? Or the same number of offenses? Surely those two must have had several positive tests in order to be kicked off entirely...

Unless you know the exact details, you can't call it inconsistent or "Croom Justice"...

 

[LiterallyPolice]

You lost me when you said weed was like heroin....

... But then you TOTALLY redeemed yourself when you said you and Stansbury have beef on the streets. I lolled.

 

[DAWG61]

I'll concede that the campus doesn't have a couple players on it right now but Ray had from April till August to convince a couple guys to walk-on. A couple of players who are now currently on division3 rosters that would have chosen to walk-on State and try to earn a scholarship. He didn't go this route.

I'm hoping Ray now knows the importance of 1. not kicking players off before the season starts when you don't have their replacements already lined up, either suspend them or discipline them in other ways but kicking scholarship players off the team right before or during the season should only happen if absolutely necessary and I'll bet the 2 that got kicked off didn't committ felonies. When you kick them off and nobody knows why you did it it screams of an ego/power struggle and when you have no depth you should check your ego till after the season and then you kick them off. They are 18-22 years old. If you can't suppress their lack of respect for you you might wanna try some new tactics before you shoot yourself and the team in the foot. 2. recruit a couple of div3 type players to walk on the team every year.

It's always better to have more than you need than to need more than you have.

 

[futaba.79]

and I thought we were friends..............

"damn." Rick "forgot" me in the "sabotage" plan. 17. I'm 17ing "devastated."

"Some" of "you" have "lost" your damn "minds."

 

[Shmuley]

Just so we're clear, is it ok if I am (1) in favor of **** canning the *** clapper; (2) believing the AD totally **** the bed on the hire; and (3) fully supporting what may be one of the shittiest basketball teams since Dr Naismith first nailed up a tire rim? Would that be ok?

 

[Incognegro]

You just wrote a book on nothing but assumptions... We don't know anything about the infractions which makes it hard for us to determine if it was consistent or not. Besides, there are plenty of coaches that don't talk about what rules their players have broken. That's nothing new. Why is it an issue now?

Lastly... weed on the same level as heroin...? Uh... aight man...

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Disagreeing with the hiring or firing is one thing

It's more the folks blatantly rooting for their own team to fail that gets me.

 

[Dawg1976]

I expected all this- anybody would when you see how they have defended everything Stansbury the last 8 years on here.

However, the only thing that bothers me is them not ackowledging the 2 blown out ACL's and the broken wrist from guys that would be major contributors this season. Acting like we are this bad because of Ray is assinine

Agree 100%. No way he can be fully evaluated at this point. Get these players back along with next years class and then let's see what he can do.

 

[BiscuitEater]

Ahha ...

Stansbury obviously has asked, and perhaps still asks, his closest supporters and boosters to not support the new coach and/or the program in an effort to get the "last word" and be able to say "I told you so". The "rumors" have been swirling since he was fired that he has done what he can to "sabotage" the program, and hell, all you need is to be lucky enough to follow any of his old boosters or their family/friends/etc.. on twitter to see that it's pretty obvious. Add to that the continued message board posts you see from guys like 99pj (or whatever his handle is) and it really does nothing to detract from this.

While I love a good conspiracy theory, I really can't see a former coach spending time 'sabotagging' his former school, especially one where he spent 22 years coaching.

Again, there are BB posts on a lot of our boards and posts that 'defend' Stans hare few and far between. DON'T confuse posts that point out issues with the Ray and the team as pro-Stans supporters. 99% of bulldog fans are more interested in winning games instead of 'who' coaches the team.

One could write a book about the posts here slamming Stans 'while' he was the MSU head BB coach; some have short memories.

 

[BiscuitEater]

Speeding again ...

I expected all this- anybody would when you see how they have defended everything Stansbury the last 8 years on here.

However, the only thing that bothers me is them not ackowledging the 2 blown out ACL's and the broken wrist from guys that would be major contributors this season. Acting like we are this bad because of Ray is assinine

Coach. Injuries are not on Ray; Kicking off two and supending one is on Ray.

Again, I don't see a whole lot of defending Stans but rather pointing out some 'issues' with Ray and his team EXACTLY like you have done with Stans and his teams for the past eight years. Don't be bitching at folks for doing what you perfected.

 

[Dawgbreeze]

Excellent post. To my knowledge I have never heard Rick Stansbury say one bad thing about Rick Ray. Also, had this team been a Rick Stansbury coached team Coach34 and his enterouge would have been screaming about the lack of discipline on offense and the fact we looked like a street game in our two games in Maui. No question this team is limited in what it can do, but we turn the ball over as bad as we ever have in the past and jack up shots from all over the floor without any motion offense. I think most MSU fans simply want to win but we also have fans who think not winning the NCAA is failure and right now even the most optimistic fans are hard pressed to see how Stricklin improved this program. Two years from now if we compete for the league championship and make the dance, then Stricklin will look like he made a good choice but right now it is hard to watch what we have on the floor. The MSU fan base will be patient but I doubt seriously anybody will be patient for four plus years to only get back to the NIT when that was never good enough with our former coach.

While I love a good conspiracy theory, I really can't see a former coach spending time 'sabotagging' his former school, especially one where he spent 22 years coaching.

Again, there are BB posts on a lot of our boards and posts that 'defend' Stans hare few and far between. DON'T confuse posts that point out issues with the Ray and the team as pro-Stans supporters. 99% of bulldog fans are more interested in winning games instead of 'who' coaches the team.

One could write a book about the posts here slamming Stans 'while' he was the MSU head BB coach; some have short memories.

 

[Coach34]

Coach. Injuries are not on Ray; Kicking off two and supending one is on Ray.

Again, I don't see a whole lot of defending Stans but rather pointing out some 'issues' with Ray and his team EXACTLY like you have done with Stans and his teams for the past eight years. Don't be bitching at folks for doing what you perfected.

Coaches suspend players- even the great Rick Stansbury...and we are not where we are because of Ray...as I said, the problems I called out Stansbury on for years were legitimate and ultimately his downfall. Nobody can judge Ray whatsoever at this point. As Engie said- anybody judging right now is either ignorant or agenda-driven

 

[lasher8]

yep...there is more than one poster in this thread making assumptions.

Also, too...weed = heroin???

 

[esplanade91]

yep...there is more than one poster in this thread making assumptions.

Also, too...weed = heroin???

I was saying that Ray can think weed is the worst thing in the world, rank it up there with terrorism, the cancellation of Arrested Development, or heroin (the drug with the worst punishment), and still be let these guys stay on the team.

Brochert might have been a first time offender and they might be completely different violations, but I don't think the 3 strikes you're out rule applies here as the two were holdovers... Someone mentioned Arceto Clark getting a redo with Mullen, and that's exactly what I'm saying with Smith and Zedjyknous.

Can't preach discipline and kick a guy off without giving the screwball a grace period, that might just be my opinion. That's what I meant by Croom justice.

And again, part of me thinks he's just doing it to look like a hard *** for the Stans faithful.

 

[patdog]

No doubt. There is a contingent out there that is loyal to Stansbury and doesn't give a **** about MSU. That's just sad and disappointing. And I'm extremely disappointed with the way Stansbury has encouraged this. I liked him and supported him right up to almost the end, even though I knew a couple of years before that he probably wasn't going to ever be able to get control of this team back. I hope Rick Ray will succeed at MSU and I really hope he will be given the chance to. But I'm really doubting he will. Mike Kzychechvski (I know I spelled it wrong) wouldn't be able to win 15 games with this team. The simple fact is, Rick Ray had to play Tyson Cunningham for 30 minutes today. And got 0 points for it. And that's all on Stansbury. No coach in this world could beat a good team if he had to play Cunningham for 30 minutes. And I don't mean that as a slam on Cunningham. He's doing all he can to contribute.

 

[patdog]

As Engie said- anybody judging right now is either ignorant or agenda-driven

You and Engie are being way too kind. Nobody's that ignorant. They have an agenda. And we'd all be better off if they just quit trying to pretend to support MSU.

 

[patdog]

STRONGLY dislike weed. Hold it up there with heroin.

WTF? Weed = heroin? Seriously, what is wrong with you?

 

[patdog]

I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt on this board. Whether they agree with me or disagree, everyone has a right to their opinion. But you are just an idiot. You don't have a 17ing clue what any of those 3 players did to get kicked off the team or suspended for.

 

[patdog]

He could add 30 walkons and the fact would still be that he really has only 1 bench player for this trip.

 

[jmac.sixpack]

No matter what side you fall on in this argument, we have a mess on our hands. I understand the frustration of fans towards Stansbury, but I could at least watch the games last year (Even with Sid walking down the court, you could watch two 1st team All-SEC players). I tried to watch the North Carolina game, and I just couldn't - we are awful. Only my opinion - if Stansbury was still the coach, we would still be frustrated with the same stuff. But, we would be watching Hood, Pollard, Josh Gray (a point guard would be nice), along with the players we have now. I am a State fan - give my fair share to the Bulldog Club, buy season tickets to most sports, paid for one kid at State with another one coming, and attend games as I have even bought a condo in Starkville - but this is a train wreck. (We can all debate who is at fault - Stans, AD for not having a coach in waiting, or R Ray for some of the things in his control that has happened.) All I know is that I have given my season tickets to my in-laws as I just cannot watch the product on the court and have other things to do with my time.

 

[War Machine Dawg]

Our fans need to get something else straight, too. Hood was NEVER coming back to State. We could've given Stans a lifetime contract and Hood would've still been gone. The decision had been made months before the season ended. I wish he'd given Ray a fair shake, but it didn't happen. Hood's departure is entirely on two people: Stansbury and Hood himself. Not Ray. So 17 Hood. For all his talk about how he loves State and always dreamed of playing for State, it turns out Hood's nothing more than another spoiled *** ballah only out for himself.

 

[engie]

But, we would be watching Hood, Pollard, Josh Gray (a point guard would be nice), along with the players we have now.

I enjoyed your post and mostly agree with you...

But, this is the kind of stuff we're talking about. Whoever you get your basketball info from is revising the past in order to make the future look bleaker. That is a Stansbury-driven agenda trying to make Ray seem incompetent. Passing it on as fact does your university a disservice.

Of the three players you listed, only one would(almost surely) be playing at MSU right now, and that is Josh Gray. Hood was gone no matter what. That was decided well before the end of last season, and he even said as much in interviews. Devonta Pollard never committed to MSU. Alabama was a real player all along that always had a good chance of landing him throughout the process. To assume that Pollard would have ended up @ State is a decent leap IMO. That's not much different from saying Isaiah Canaan would be running the point @ MSU with O'Bryant at center had we gotten rid of Stansbury sooner...

 

[patdog]

if Stansbury was still the coach, we would still be frustrated with the same stuff. But, we would be watching Hood, Pollard, Josh Gray (a point guard would be nice), along with the players we have now

This is just ********. Hood tried to leave at least twice that I know of for a fact before Stans "retired." Once before he even enrolled at MSU. And anyone who thinks Pollard was ever coming to MSU is delusional. His dad supposedly told him on his deathbed that he wanted him to go to MSU and yet he didn't sign with us in the early signing period and NEVER ONCE indicated that we were even the leader for his signature. That should tell you something. Either the dad story is ******** or he just didn't care what his dad wanted. But he sure never gave any indication that he wanted to come to MSU.

 

[goodknight]

Discipline!

I think that is what Ray has instilled so far to this team which it sorely lacked the last 2-3 years, discipline! Nobody knows what Smith and Z did to get kicked off the team and if it was the 1st, 2nd or 3rd strike. I'm sure he laid the rules down and what would and would not be tolerated so each young man evidently decided their own future and ours to some extent. Nobody could have known that we would have 2 ACL's and a broken wrist at this point in the season. Stand left the program in shambles from a bench standpoint whatever you want to say. Hood almost left at X-Mas last year and that's from one of the assistants and had made his mind up to transfer with or without Stans at the helm. The roster was decimated and it's not Ray's fault. Ask yourself who is left from last years signing class. Shawn Long didn't make it through the 1st semester, Gardner kicked off before the season, Smith had issues, and Hood decided before Stans left to transfer. R. Johnson is left and he appears to be playing better with Ray than with Stans. Please don't think Hood was going to stay if Stans stayed. He had to be tlaked into staying at the break last year and the staff knew he was leaving at the end of the year.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

You should've used more tongue and fondled the balls.

That and used air quotes in his presence more often. Yes I get that you are making fun of the fact that I used quotations in a post.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I like how you left yourself an out with this quote

Excellent post. To my knowledge I have never heard Rick Stansbury say one bad thing about Rick Ray.

I believe you. But not saying bad things about Rick Ray does not mean he didn't tell potentially interested coaches not to take the job or ask his booster friends not to support the program. Maybe he didn't do that either, but that's the word on the street.

 

[StillTbonewannabe]

We don't know what they were kicked off the team for. What if they already failed several drug tests since Ray was here. Some rules are automatic, coaches don't have any say in discipline.

 

[Seinfeld]

2. Stansbury obviously has asked, and perhaps still asks, his closest supporters and boosters to not support the new coach and/or the program in an effort to get the "last word" and be able to say "I told you so". The "rumors" have been swirling since he was fired that he has done what he can to "sabotage" the program, and hell, all you need is to be lucky enough to follow any of his old boosters or their family/friends/etc.. on twitter to see that it's pretty obvious. Add to that the continued message board posts you see from guys like 99pj (or whatever his handle is) and it really does nothing to detract from this.

Has there been one shred of actual proof that this taking place? It's just a little hard for me to believe that the university is actively employing someone who is so blatantly making concerted effort to undermine the basketball program.

Also, let's be clear. Any "agenda" that you're seeing from Stansbury supporters is for the most part not directed at MSU, the basketball team, or Ray. It's directed at all the brilliant prophesiers on this board that have preached for the last 8 years about how much better things would be once Stansbury was gone. You guys are welcome to use any excuse that you want to use but it's not better, it's not going to be better next year, and there's not much reason to believe that it's going to get better any time soon.

It was time for a change, I bought my season tickets this year, and I'm trying to stay optimistic... but be careful what you wish for is about all I can say

 

[cheewgumm]

AGREE on all counts. Bravo.

done and done

Just so we're clear, is it ok if I am (1) in favor of **** canning the *** clapper; (2) believing the AD totally **** the bed on the hire; and (3) fully supporting what may be one of the shittiest basketball teams since Dr Naismith first nailed up a tire rim? Would that be ok?