Real QB Talk...

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Even with the terrible bowl game performance, here are Russell's season stats: 394 pass attempts, 10 interceptions, 18 sacks taken

Compare that to the previous two years with Relf:
2010: 190 pass attempts, 9 interceptions, 25 sacks
2011: 220 pass attempts, 6 interceptions, 23 sacks

Relf: an interception every 27 drop backs, and a sack every 9 drop backs
Russell: an interception every 40 drop backs, and a sack every 21 drop backs

But of course, if we change QB's, that'll fix everything!

This is OUR favorite myth!

 

[sorantable]

Solid thread. Russell is not a bad QB. Most of his issues seem to be mental. I remember watching this happen to Jevan Snead a few years ago. It almost looks like the exact same scenario. Talented QB starts thinking too much and loses effectiveness because of it. Maybe Mullen needs to simplify the offense in some way.

 

[Coach34]

Even with the terrible bowl game performance, here are Russell's season stats: 394 pass attempts, 10 interceptions, 18 sacks taken

Compare that to the previous two years with Relf:
2010: 190 pass attempts, 9 interceptions, 25 sacks
2011: 220 pass attempts, 6 interceptions, 23 sacks

Relf: an interception every 27 drop backs, and a sack every 9 drop backs
Russell: an interception every 40 drop backs, and a sack every 21 drop backs

But of course, if we change QB's, that'll fix everything!

This is OUR favorite myth!

wait- how many times was Russell sacked in 2010 and 2011? Those count too. LSU pounded Russell in 2010 and Russell threw 130 passes in 2011- so those numbers need to be mixed in as well to be more accurate

 

[GoToHellOleMiss.sixpack]

Are those "pure" sack numbers? In other words are they exclusive of tackles for loss on designed runs?

Relf ran the ball a ton versus Tyler rarely running the ball. Not sure you've got apples and apples.

Nobody is arguing that Tyler isn't a better QB than Relf. The argument has more to do with the style of offense. Dan's style is better suited to a running QB. It's that simple. Tyler is not a runner.....Dak is.

So, either revamp the offense to suit Tyler or let's move on and play Dak.

 

[tenureplan]

Wait - Didn't Relf play some in 2009?

nm

 

[tenureplan]

Yeah, that's pure sack numbers. While Russell has some pretty bad footwork in the pocket, Relf had none. That's on the OC.

 

[Coach34]

Are those "pure" sack numbers? In other words are they exclusive of tackles for loss on designed runs?

Relf ran the ball a ton versus Tyler rarely running the ball. Not sure you've got apples and apples.

Nobody is arguing that Tyler isn't a better QB than Relf. The argument has more to do with the style of offense. Dan's style is better suited to a running QB. It's that simple. Tyler is not a runner.....Dak is.

So, either revamp the offense to suit Tyler or let's move on and play Dak.

exactly

This thread is useless

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

yeah, russell played the worst game of his season (career?) in the gator bowl. **** happens.

that said, how much separation did our WRs have against bama, lsu, a&m, and ole miss? was russell actually missing open guys running down the field? it's easy to lay blame on the QB because we, as non-experts, can easily stare at the QB and watch him make a bad pass or take a sack and yell at him to do something, but football is probably the most team oriented sport of all the team sports. i think a lot of russell's problems were WRs not getting open.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Those are pure sack numbers.

I only included numbers for each as full-time starter.

With Russell we don't turn it over nearly as much and we don't have nearly as many negative plays.

Some think Dak will be awesome. I sure hope so. But it's just as likely he's Relf 2.0. There's really no way to know.

From 2011 to 2012 the one thing that dramatically improved was QB play. Yet to hear this board, it's our QB that's holding us back.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Their completely different players. Thanks for your contribution...**

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

TRANSLATION...

exactly

This thread is useless

"I can't wack off to my own opinion in this thread, let's get back to talking about how I'm a message board hero." - Douche34

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

They're plastic sacks....

Actually, called runs are not supposed to be counted as sacks. Or is that just the NFL? I watch too much football.

 

[missouridawg]

yeah, russell played the worst game of his season (career?) in the gator bowl. **** happens.

that said, how much separation did our WRs have against bama, lsu, a&m, and ole miss? was russell actually missing open guys running down the field? it's easy to lay blame on the QB because we, as non-experts, can easily stare at the QB and watch him make a bad pass or take a sack and yell at him to do something, but football is probably the most team oriented sport of all the team sports. i think a lot of russell's problems were WRs not getting open.

No one is saying Russell isn't talented or he isn't good. Mullen is better a playcaller and we run a smoother offense with a running QB behind the center. Dak Prescott is that running QB.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Let's hope so. I would be pretty shocked if we sat Russell next year as it would absolutely kill our recruiting and team morale. But whenever he takes the reins (be it in 2013 or 2014), Prescott is going to have to be pretty damn good to be an improvement over Russell.

I'm admittedly a huge Russell fan, but the minute TR graduates I'll be just as excited to see what Prescott can do. I hope he's awesome. But anyone who tells you he will be is just guessing. We'll see...

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

They don't count as sacks. However, sack yardage lost counts against a QB's rushing total, whereas in the NFL, it does not.

 

[Coach34]

"I can't wack off to my own opinion in this thread, let's get back to talking about how I'm a message board hero." - Douche34

No, it's just a useless argument

You can beat your chest all you want about Russell- bottom line is that he couldnt lead the offense to score vs good teams- just like Relf couldn't.

Mullen is not going to change the scheme or starting QB's- he is going to piece together an offense for Russell one more season. And we will continue to languish on offense and be ****** on 3rd downs. What scares me is that Russell doesnt get as many free passes next season- the schedule will be alot tougher.

 

[CoastRat.sixpack]

"****** on 3rd downs,"??? Apparently you didn't realize we converted ONE in the Gator Bowl.***

 

[tenureplan]

A stat I found showed that for the season we averaged 1.7 yards on 3rd and 1-3 when we ran the ball. you have to think that the mean yardage for 1-3 would have to be close to the median of 2. The year prior we averaged 3.5. To me that has as much to do with Perkins/Ballard as it does with Russell/Relf.

 

[Coach34]

A stat I found showed that for the season we averaged 1.7 yards on 3rd and 1-3 when we ran the ball. you have to think that the mean yardage for 1-3 would have to be close to the median of 2. The year prior we averaged 3.5. To me that has as much to do with Perkins/Ballard as it does with Russell/Relf.

Russell's lack of mobility is to blame for that as well. If Dak was in on every 3rd and short- I can guarantee you the average would be higher because you would have to account for both players in the backfield- like they did for Relf and Ballard. With Russell, defenses ignore him in the run game.

Russell doesnt fit the scheme. We need a scheme change or we need a QB change. But we will likely get neither and just piece it together one more season.

 

[Railin Jemmye]

I agree. We are setting ourselves up, AGAIN, to send another QB off.......

with Miss. State hate in their mouth.

If Russell does ANYTHING wrong next year, I'm guessing our impatient fans will boo the **** out of him just like we did Shell, Jordan, Taite, Madkin, Fant, Conner, Henig, Lee, Relf and everyone else who started at any point. Sleepy never really got booed because he got hurt too early for the fanbase to turn on him. Wyatt is maybe the ONE QB who captured MSU fans hearts by well, first getting booed and benched, but then leading all those comebacks. And look how involved he is with the University now, he's one of our biggest promoters.

Imagine if the other guys felt the way he does.

 

[missouridawg]

Let's hope so. I would be pretty shocked if we sat Russell next year as it would absolutely kill our recruiting and team morale. But whenever he takes the reins (be it in 2013 or 2014), Prescott is going to have to be pretty damn good to be an improvement over Russell.

I'm admittedly a huge Russell fan, but the minute TR graduates I'll be just as excited to see what Prescott can do. I hope he's awesome. But anyone who tells you he will be is just guessing. We'll see...

To me, it's setting up very, very unkind for Russell. He's a good QB with potential to play in the NFL. He just doesn't fit in what Mullen does on offense.

If we had Bobby Petrino as our OC, I couldn't tell you how excited I would be about Russell... but with Mullen... I think I'd rather see an average thrower/good runner than a good thrower/bad runner (but please note, that I think Prescott is a good thrower too... I think we have a gem in him... but we'll see when he gets the reins).

 

[121Josey]

I am impress that you even know who Sleepy is (other than a dwarf). You did leave out Plump. But all is forgiven that you included Todd "I thought it was 3rd down" Jordan in your list.

And Wyatt still gets booed for his play(-by-play). I don't know how many times I can stand to hear "That's the first time all year Tyler Russell..." Not to mention that Cross takes him to school on a daily basis.

 

[FreeDawg]

Bottom Line: The offense this year performed worse than it did with Relf. That tells me 1 thing: Mullen's system works better for pedestrian running QB's than it does for above average passing ones

 

[Coach34]

Bottom Line: The offense this year performed worse than it did with Relf. That tells me 1 thing: Mullen's system works better for pedestrian running QB's than it does for above average passing ones

great way to put it Freedawg

 

[Railin Jemmye]

Sorry, I just don't see it that way. I'm sure Coach34 and/or others can spin the numbers to say whatever they want, but the offense seemed better this year than 2011. It was obviously better in 2010 because, surprise, surprise, the line was good. I recall Tyler playing fairly well that year too in limited snaps.

 

[Coach34]

Sorry, I just don't see it that way. I'm sure Coach34 and/or others can spin the numbers to say whatever they want, but the offense seemed better this year than 2011. It was obviously better in 2010 because, surprise, surprise, the line was good. I recall Tyler playing fairly well that year too in limited snaps.

The offense struggled some in 2011 because both QB's got hurt and 3 OL starters went down- causing us to start two R-Freshmen. 2010 we remained fairly injury free like we did in 2012

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

That says more about Mullen than anything else...and what it says is not a compliment.

 

[operch]

Even with the terrible bowl game performance, here are Russell's season stats: 394 pass attempts, 10 interceptions, 18 sacks taken

Compare that to the previous two years with Relf:
2010: 190 pass attempts, 9 interceptions, 25 sacks
2011: 220 pass attempts, 6 interceptions, 23 sacks

Relf: an interception every 27 drop backs, and a sack every 9 drop backs
Russell: an interception every 40 drop backs, and a sack every 21 drop backs

But of course, if we change QB's, that'll fix everything!

This is OUR favorite myth!

It just goes to prove, "WE," like all people are idiots.

 

[Railin Jemmye]

Are you really trying to say that our line this year was as good as the one in 2010? You're smoking crack. The 2013 line will be more comparable to 2010. Subsequently, that's when Tyler Russell will best be judged. Russell got knocked around this year. Not as bad as Relf did in 2011, but close. Really sucks Relf had to go out behind that line in 2011. Again, idiotic unrealistic expectations for that team.

Truth be known, Dak will have a hell of an OL to play behind in 2014 and 2015. Mullen has amassed some serious depth there.

 

[Railin Jemmye]

No, it says that our OL was not as good, but with Mullen's recruiting since 2010, that problem will be remedied for a long time.

 

[Coach34]

Are you really trying to say that our line this year was as good as the one in 2010? You're smoking crack. .

Actually yes.

The 2010 OL was built to run block- and run we did. We finished 2nd in the SEC in rushing
The 2012 OL was built to pass block- and pass we did. We finished 2nd in the SEC in fewest sacks allowed

The 2012 OL was much better at pass blocking than the 2010 OL- allowing 7 fewer sacks on 136 more pass attempts

 

[Coach34]

That says more about Mullen than anything else...and what it says is not a compliment.

I totally agree- but it doesnt mean it isnt true

 

[Coach34]

No, it says that our OL was not as good, but with Mullen's recruiting since 2010, that problem will be remedied for a long time.

********

As I showed in the other thread- 2012's OL was built to pass block. This season we allowed 7 fewer sacks than in 2010- but threw the ball 136 MORE times. That clearly shows how much better this year's OL was a pass protection.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Doesn't hurt that in 2012, when our QB's first read was covered, he didn't panic. Russell gets as much credit, if not more for not taking sacks as the O-Line. He did a great job of throwing it away (sometimes at the very last second) when no one was open (something he didn't do very well in the bowl game). There are places where you can knock his game, but he's got great pocket awareness.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

aGAIN. Russell get's most of the credit for this. Relf panicked every time his first read was covered. Russell stood in there and either threw it away or found a check down receiver. Russell's pocket presence kept him from getting sacked several times a game.

 

[Coach34]

aGAIN. Russell get's most of the credit for this. Relf panicked every time his first read was covered. Russell stood in there and either threw it away or found a check down receiver. Russell's pocket presence kept him from getting sacked several times a game.

I'm not arguing pocket presence- there's no comparision between the two. But that's not all it was. There were times that Relf was engulfed by the time he dropped on his 5th step...the OL in 2012 was much better at pass protection and blitz pick-ups. Why? Because they spent alot more time in practice working on it. It was their identity.

2010 was much better at run blocking. Why? Because they spent more time in practice working on it. It was their identity

 

[Railin Jemmye]

Just stop. The crack pipe, AND your cockamamie twisted up argument. We also had an NFL RB on the team in 2010. None of that matters. The eye test matters. My eyes and everyone else's saw Tyler Russell get knocked all over the place this year, while we saw the 2010 line dominate. Relf routinely had all day to throw.

 

[Railin Jemmye]

You give 'scheming' and Xs and Os WWWAAAYYY too much credit. No wonder you aren't in coaching anymore. The 2010 OL had more talent, depth and experience than the 2012 OL. That's what matters. And it showed. It showed in the way our offense moved, and it showed in the results of the games, it shows in HOW we played the games. Your stats are next to useless.

 

[Coach34]

You give 'scheming' and Xs and Os WWWAAAYYY too much credit. .

Anthony Dixon 2006-2008 and Anthony Dixon 2009 tells your dumbass all you need to know about how much difference a scheme makes. Just shut your dumb 17'ing *** up. Muslims in Saudi Arabia know more 17'ing football than you do

 

[JJs Frustration]

Just stop. The crack pipe, AND your cockamamie twisted up argument. We also had an NFL RB on the team in 2010. None of that matters. The eye test matters. My eyes and everyone else's saw Tyler Russell get knocked all over the place this year, caused by him standing flat footed like a statue on every drop back, while we saw the 2010 line dominate. Relf routinely had all day to throw.

Fixed it for you. He got the **** beat out of him because he has regressed and doesn't get rid of the football and doesn't slide in the pocket. It's not all his fault as I believe some of it is our inability to make plays outside, our play calling, and him not getting coached very well.