Recrootin post. Anybody notice how we get TWO highly rated players......

[Goat Grindin]

and suddenly our recruiting is light years better than it has been the last 3 years? Mullen's best class ever?

I guess Ifind that a little bit ignorant. I'm glad we got the 5* guys, we surely need them. But top to bottom, is our class any better than it ever has been? Last year, Ole Miss' class was ranked like 27, nothing really special. But because they got like 4 good players, people think they've got a national title sewed up.

I guess I look back and see the depth we've amassed, and some of the budding playmakers from the 2010 and 2011 classes (that sucked so horribly according to our fans) and realize that 3 or 4 players don't make the whole class. I said it last year and I'll say it again, I wouldn't trade classes with Ole Miss last year. I would trade with a lot of people for our 2002 and 2003 classes however, that had a lot of starzz but not a whole lot of substance. To me, our class this year doesn't look too incredibly different than the last couple, top to bottom.A little bigger on numbers I suppose. I mean, did we not signa fewhighly rated guys each year? Robinson, Wells, Eulls in 2010; Arrington, Jones, Morrow in 2011. Obviously different services rank different players differently. This year it's Redmond, Evans and James. And alot more of those guys are really showing glimpses, like Johnson and Prescott.

I will say that I like the high level JUCO guys, but it does seem like we get a few of them every year too. Carmon, Ballard, Slay to name a few. Just my opinion. Feel free to flame away.

 

[Goat Grindin]

and suddenly our recruiting is light years better than it has been the last 3 years? Mullen's best class ever?

I guess Ifind that a little bit ignorant. I'm glad we got the 5* guys, we surely need them. But top to bottom, is our class any better than it ever has been? Last year, Ole Miss' class was ranked like 27, nothing really special. But because they got like 4 good players, people think they've got a national title sewed up.

I guess I look back and see the depth we've amassed, and some of the budding playmakers from the 2010 and 2011 classes (that sucked so horribly according to our fans) and realize that 3 or 4 players don't make the whole class. I said it last year and I'll say it again, I wouldn't trade classes with Ole Miss last year. I would trade with a lot of people for our 2002 and 2003 classes however, that had a lot of starzz but not a whole lot of substance. To me, our class this year doesn't look too incredibly different than the last couple, top to bottom.A little bigger on numbers I suppose. I mean, did we not signa fewhighly rated guys each year? Robinson, Wells, Eulls in 2010; Arrington, Jones, Morrow in 2011. Obviously different services rank different players differently. This year it's Redmond, Evans and James. And alot more of those guys are really showing glimpses, like Johnson and Prescott.

I will say that I like the high level JUCO guys, but it does seem like we get a few of them every year too. Carmon, Ballard, Slay to name a few. Just my opinion. Feel free to flame away.

 

[Goat Grindin]

and suddenly our recruiting is light years better than it has been the last 3 years? Mullen's best class ever?

I guess Ifind that a little bit ignorant. I'm glad we got the 5* guys, we surely need them. But top to bottom, is our class any better than it ever has been? Last year, Ole Miss' class was ranked like 27, nothing really special. But because they got like 4 good players, people think they've got a national title sewed up.

I guess I look back and see the depth we've amassed, and some of the budding playmakers from the 2010 and 2011 classes (that sucked so horribly according to our fans) and realize that 3 or 4 players don't make the whole class. I said it last year and I'll say it again, I wouldn't trade classes with Ole Miss last year. I would trade with a lot of people for our 2002 and 2003 classes however, that had a lot of starzz but not a whole lot of substance. To me, our class this year doesn't look too incredibly different than the last couple, top to bottom.A little bigger on numbers I suppose. I mean, did we not signa fewhighly rated guys each year? Robinson, Wells, Eulls in 2010; Arrington, Jones, Morrow in 2011. Obviously different services rank different players differently. This year it's Redmond, Evans and James. And alot more of those guys are really showing glimpses, like Johnson and Prescott.

I will say that I like the high level JUCO guys, but it does seem like we get a few of them every year too. Carmon, Ballard, Slay to name a few. Just my opinion. Feel free to flame away.

 

[BehrDawg]

This will by far be the best recruiting class since Jackie's stellar classes.

 

[Griffdawg]

Give me a massive 5 star DT or pass rushing DE any day over a 5 star 5'10" 180 lb. slot receiver/kick returner. I know this is broken record time but SEC games are won and lost by the big uglies on both sides of the line. It's no coincidence that during our best (most recent) stretch of winning in the late 90's, we werebasically 2 deep along the d-line with little drop off in talent.

 

[Goat Grindin]

nm

 

[Goat Grindin]

and that's one thing Mullen has surely done, that's recruit the hell out of some OL and DL. We're going to be nice and deep there after this class.

But, but, but, I thought the rebels said we were going to drop off after Croom's recruits were gone??? (I seriously can't believe those *%*$@## idiots posted that numerous times). What's more likely to happen is a stretch of seasons that rivals King Jackie's success, as you mentioned.

 

[BehrDawg]

not even the bears. Don't be fooled so easily, much has changed since last year.

 

[TBone.sixpack]

It's not new thing. Mullen adjusts quickly. That is what I like about him. He knows that to run his offense he needs the big uglies. And boy could it be fun if he gets them.

 

[Griffdawg]

I'd hate to see him waste his college years on a team destined for the cellar of the SEC West for the foreseeable future.

 

[umrebel2009]

But, but, but, I thought the rebels said we were going to drop off after Croom's recruits were gone???

You lost some key players and there was a drop off. I'm not sure how you're denying that but ok.

 

[Coach34]

But, but, but, I thought the rebels said we were going to drop off after Croom's recruits were gone???

You lost some key players and there was a drop off. I'm not sure how you're denying that but ok.

making it a difference of 2 games- and those 2 extra losses had more to do with offensive lineman getting hurt vs Auburn and LSU to start the season more than anybody we lost last season.

 

[Coach34]

after 3 years- you have 6 more top level SEC players on your 2 deep than you had previously<div>
</div><div>Imagine how much better our season would have been with 6 more top level SEC players added to what we already had?</div>

 

[umrebel2009]

and in year 3 Mullen had no OL depth to fill in so a DT had to be converted to OL, him and another OL were injured causing freshmen to play... and none of this shows a drop off from Crooms players leaving and Mullen's recruiting?

 

[MSUArrowCS]

Then I saw this:<div class="ugdv_contextMenu" id="ugdv_myMenu" style="display: none; "><ul id="ugdv_contextMenu">[*]Open in Google Docs Viewer[*]Open link in new tab[*]Open link in new window[*]Open link in new incognito window[*][*]Download file[*]Copy link address[*]Edit PDF File on PDFescape.com[/list]</div><div id="ugdv_jqContextMenu"></div><div></div><div>http://mississippistate.scout.com/a.z?s=136&p=9&c=16&yr=2011
</div><div>
</div><div>And I decided to shut the hell up about Mullen and OL recruiting. They're doing exactly what they want to do. Maybe missing a player here or there, but depth-wise, we're right on schedule.What's it to you, exactly?</div>

 

[umrebel2009]

He said OM fans were "%!%#!!% idiots" for saying there would be a drop of after Croom players left. So I simply pointed out there was a drop off, not only in the wins but in the depth / talent in some areas like the OL.

It's nothing to me personally, just pointing out that its not really "%!%#!!% idiotic" to claim there was a drop off.

Something about converting a DT to LT and him and a freshmen battling for playing time does not come off as "right on schedule"

 

[Coach34]

we are better at QB and WR than we were under Crooms. We have more depth at RB. We're better at Safety. We are developing depth on the DL...after next season we will no longer have gaping holes in our OL classes as we did under Crooms.<div>
</div><div>Recruiting is improving and becoming more stable under Mullen for sure</div>

 

[umrebel2009]

Like you said, RB, QB etc have some improvement. I will admit Mullen has brought in some good players, and players we would definitely have liked to have signed.

Last year there were only probably a few Croom players left that were actually playing a big role in the team. I know a lot of OM fans said once these players graduated, there would be a drop off like we had when Oher graduated, and I think that did happen. There wasn't a drop off in the talent of the team as a whole, but there was a drop off in the offense as those Croom OL graduated and some Mullen OL were plugged in. I believe that was the biggest problem with State this year was offensive production. The defense did pretty good but with the lack of depth and injuries on the OL hurt yall.

That's what I meant by drop off. In other positions though the talent level has definitely improved though

 

[MSUArrowCS]

Otherwise you're just verifying the whole "idiot" thing. Outside of the injured Carmon and Smith we have 3 OL older than sophomores. We have nothing BUT redshirt freshmen and converted players to step in largely because of Croom's recruiting. Could you be any more ignorant about this?

 

[maroonmania]

or lack thereof at least when it comes to OL. We had a 2 year window when Croom only brought in about 4 OL total and only 2 of those have contributed (G. Jackson and T. Smith) and 1 of those 2, Tobias Smith, can't stay off the DL. Heck we only had 2 contributing SR OL this year as well with Lawrence and Saulsberry that were Croom recruits, the other we converted from a JUCO DT. Croom messed us over royally with OL recruiting, the only thing I will give our current staff some blame on is not doing more JUCO OL recruiting earlier as a quick fix. We paid for that this year but down the line even the move to stick with stockpiling young guys instead should pay off. Obviously though the staff feels they may not be totally ready therefore the need to still bring in a couple of more JUCOs and balance out the classes a little more this year.

 

[engie]

on the OL...I blame that 50/50 on Mullen and Croom and here is why...

The drop off was due to the fact that Croom didn't recruit NEARLY enough O-Linemen to sustain us his last few years, and that is what killed us this year. A bad o-line shuts down any offense. We experienced quite an offensive numbers drop this year without losing ANY skill players. What else do we attribute it to? Line play is the only answer.

That said, I'm not giving Mullen/Hevesy a pass on this either, because they should have recognized this gap last year and brought in the JUCO guys to fill it. They are guilty in that. We were ONE deep on the o-line this year, with a patchwork LT. When Smith went down and Carmon got banged up, we were done there, plain and simple. It was the difference between our 6 win season and at least an 8 win year. No excuses. That said, Mullen has seemed to learn from his mistakes, and I have yet to see him make the same one twice.

Mullen has recruited decently on the O-Line. We are building alot of depth as the chart above shows. His guys are just still really young and underdeveloped, so whether it is quality depth is yet to be seen. It's also still too early to call many of them busts, as I really thought Sherrod was a bust after his soph Egg Bowl 45-0 beat down. That's when I began to understand almost all stud o-linemen take 3+years to develop. The only one we have that is REALLY ahead of this schedule and showing promise is from Soph Gabe Jackson. Jury still out on the rest. For that reason, we are bringing in the #9 JUCO OT(#65 overall juco prospect, former #1 overall hs prospect in the state of Oregon) as an EE after whiffing on #7 and #8(38 and 52 overall juco), as well as a juco C(#1 C Juco, #68 overall juco), also an EE. Ideally, they can plug the holes until our 16 other current redshirt freshmen, redshirts, and signees can become at least servicable.

The O-Line is now the ONLY difference between us being a 6 win team and a 9 win team...we have the talent stockpiled everywhere else.

 

[MSU124]

Mullen should have brought in some JUCO OL to help balance everything but oh well.

Mullen's first class:
Clausell
Robinson
Lawson
Muniz

Mullen second class:
Knox
Malone
Redmond

This class:
Senior
Carter
Desper

He will bring in at least three OL every year

 

[CadaverDawg]

[No message]

 

[umrebel2009]

as in no upperclassmen in positions due to a lack of recruiting at that position in certain years, you bring in JUCOs.

That gap in recruiting may have been left by Croom, but Mullen had a copy of the depth chart for 2 years. I assure you he realized that he had nothing but a converted DT and a freshmen OL to plug in at LT. When you're replacing a NFL level LT with a freshmen, you are not "right on schedule". In a position like that you bring in a JUCO, especially at LT. That's a tough position in general, much less for a freshmen.

There is no page anywhere on the internet of a depth chart, or schedule of graduation dates that will convince me that a freshmen replacing an NFL level senior LT is right on schedule with Mullen's plans.

 

[umrebel2009]

If he had brought in some JUCOs to bridge the gap it wouldn't have been bad. Some freshmen got thrown in the fire this year, they gained some experience and should be better next year. He has been recruiting OL pretty consistently, just didn't have anyone to make the transition easier

 

[engie]

This was Mullen's mistake. One, thankfully, he isn't making twice...

 

[digdawg]

1. These dl studs make a huge difference in the class, just like cox and boyd do currently on the team. Have two stud dl, even if just one pans out, is huge.

2. These new 4 and 5 star players are crucial, because croom's players are leaving, and mullen has completely relied upon them. If mullen's recruits were better, they should have been starting, but they haven't. That is why guys like thee dl's are so important. So far,mullen has recruited a bunch of guys that aren't very good. Hopefully that will change this year, and things are looking up.

3. Blaming the ol on croom is ridiculous. In year 3, mullen was still starting 4 ol that were recruited by croom. Every sec team has multiple young players on the line. Problem is that mullen's young guys were not good this year. Tenn and auburn's ol was way younger than ours. We had as much experience or more than bama on the ol.

4. Watched the replay of the 2004 msu/florida game in croom's first year. Our lb corp included two true freshman and a sophomore. nd a sophomore. Mullen started ten true

 

[Dawgfann1977]

If he had brought in some JUCOs to bridge the gap it wouldn't have been bad. Some freshmen got thrown in the fire this year, they gained some experience and should be better next year. He has been recruiting OL pretty consistently, just didn't have anyone to make the transition easier

What you and even some of our fans fail to remember is that last year we tried to bring in two JUCO LT prospectsPeacock and Chambers.We lost out to Ark on Peacock and Chambers elected to not take another math class to get out in Dec and ended up at one of the New Mexico shcools. By the time Feb rolled around Carmonhad really done well in bowl practices and the thought was that he would have the spring and summer to work on getting better so no other JUCO was brought in.
You arecorrect we had a small drop off this year, but nothinglike the free fall your Bears have taken since Oregeron's recruits left, and I hear that the fall may be even worse in the up coming years.Someone has to pay for all the defections, and not meeting the academics standards put forth by the NCAA.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

with damn near anyone, much less a JUCO OL. No one is denying that we shouldn't have filled that gap with JUCOs, but now that's basically your entire argument about this supposed drop in talent on the entire team. After missing on a couple of JUCO targets (particularly last year) and having a guy like Trapp from JUCO who hasn't contributed at all, there was a drop off on the OL. But to say that it has anything to do with "Croom's players leaving" in general and not just Sherrod and Brignone running out of eligibility is idiotic. The drop offs at Linebacker and DE are largely due to JUCOs that Mullen closed out (McPhee and White).

 

[thatsbaseball]

every bit as much as talent. The truth is Mullen is going to have to outcoach some people to win in the SEC at State. He didn`t do that this season.

 

[Joe Schmedlap]

every bit as much as talent. The truth is Mullen is going to have to outcoach some people to win in the SEC at State. He didn`t do that this season.

While I am glad to have Dan Mullen as our coach, he didn't exactly wow us with coaching brilliance this year. He is still learning, but I think he is smart enough to learn and to improve. The future remains bright. Thanks, Ninja.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

but not necessarily the conclusion. We only really had an opportunity to win 8 games this year, and were pretty clearly outmanned in the other 4. With some adjustments and successes in recruiting like we're seeing, we should have the opportunity to be in more games and win more games consistently.<div class="ugdv_contextMenu" id="ugdv_myMenu" style="display: none; "><ul id="ugdv_contextMenu">[*]Open in Google Docs Viewer[*]Open link in new tab[*]Open link in new window[*]Open link in new incognito window[*][*]Download file[*]Copy link address[*]Edit PDF File on PDFescape.com[/list]</div><div id="ugdv_jqContextMenu"></div><div></div>

 

[engie]

he's going to make mistakes. He's beginning his 4th season EVER as a head coach at any level. As long as he isn't repeating the same mistakes, we can't much complain about this. We knew when we gave him his first gig that we could expect some growing pains. Listening to him on the Nashville radio station yesterday, I thought he answered the questions about the 6-6 "failure" well. We lost 3 senior linebackers(2 to nfl), a senior d-end to nfl, and 2 senior linemen(1 first rounder to NFL). We did not have the talented senior class this year to replace them with as leaders, and that our true juniors weren't quite ready for this role yet. Our cupboard is simply not full enough to just reload yet, but it is getting closer. We need quality depth on the O-Line....

For the most part, he's done as well as we could expect...and if this year is any indication, his recruiting is really improving, and our overall prognosis is still trending upward.

Edit to add: JWS first 3 years: 7-5, 7-5, 4-5-2. 18-15 overall.
Dan Mullen first 3 years: 5-7, 9-4, 6-6(bowl upcoming). 20-17 overall.
Basically identical. Sherrill went 8-3(5-3) in his 4th year before the Peach bowl loss to NC State.

 

[mstatefan88]

With as close as we have been in some of these games, having just 1 or 2 more topSEC caliber players would make a world of difference, but 6? I can't imagine how good we would be. If we had a top caliberDE, LT, WR, C, MLB, and SSinstead of what we had at those positions this year, we would have won 9 games.

Stars don't mean everything, but they do mean something. Consistently getting some of these 4 and 5 stars to come to MSU, especially from in state, could really elevate this program to a new level. We are getting the quality depth. Now if we can start to supplement that with some top level talent like Ward, Evans, and a few others, we can take the next step as a program.

 

[maroonmania]

you list and particularly where you see Holley listed as the #1 JUCO Center. I've been looking around on Scout and Rivals and they both seem to barely know who he is and he's rated on both as a 2 star.

 

[engie]

They recently did a list of the top 118 overall JUCO prospects...
http://247sports.com/Recr.../Football/Junior-College

 

[EAVdog]

In 2010 the run that Vick Ballard made near the end of the Auburn game would have been a touchdown. But the rule was changed to eliminate the continual goal line, therefor the ball would have had to be within the pylon.

Although it is inexplicable to lose a game in which the Offense put up 531 yards of offense.

 

[maroonmania]

with the same rating. Surprised Beard is that high. Anyone hearing anymore on Damien Jacobs? Early signing begins tomorrow.

 

[engie]

with the same rating. Surprised Beard is that high. Anyone hearing anymore on Damien Jacobs? Early signing begins tomorrow.

None of the TN insiders know what to expect out of Jacobs, meaning none of their coaches know either. If they don't know, IMO we don't know... This is surprising to me after the arrogance and "access" they had about landing Autry. I'd say it's 60/40 he signs with us tomorrow. Whether he does or not, I feel really good about the DT position going forward. We should have LSU depth and talent at that position. It'll also be a relief when we get Autry's fax. Some TN fans still holding out hope of getting him....

 

[tenureplan]

The ball bounced our way a few times last year and this year it didn't. Talent wise, we are on par with last year.

Now going from back-to-back cotton bowls (tm) to 4-8 to 2-10 is an obvious sign of a drop-off.