$23 million in deferrals with this contract after a signing a 1-year deal for 2024 with deferred money.
Reds
- Thread starter Mr Schwump
- Start date
If I was Francona I would tell the Reds forget it I'm resigning right now. They flat out lied to him. They said they would upgrade the offense and haven't done ****. If the ownership cannot afford to put the pieces in place to at least compete they should sell the damn team. Because it's obvious the Reds owner is in over his head.
My thoughts exactly. Why come back for this headache of a franchise in addition to the **** the Dodgers are doing with these super teams without any restrictions. Reds have enough talent in the farm system to pull off nearly any trade for players they can't afford on the free agent market. Yet still won't come off any of those prospects to help this team in the outfield or on offense after moving India, the team leader in OBP. Top pitching prospects like Lowder, Burns, Petty and multiple infielders with Tyson Lewis, Stewart, Collier, Arroyo, Marte & Stafura among many more in the next tier that could be packaged. Many who claim Lowder, Burns, Collier and Stewart are the 'untouchables' severely limit any players Cincinnati can acquire in a trade. One or two of these players would be a hell of a bargaining chip in a potential trade. Even if they rather stay cheap with the years of team control on Lowder and Burns in the future, trade Lodolo before the window shuts on him.
This organization would rather crowd the rotation with someone like Brady Singer who is not an ace, a solid 4th-5th rotation piece in a good rotation, pursue a joke like Nick Pivetta and call it an offseason. No prospect is a guarantee to be a successful Major League start so trading a few of them before getting exposed at the MLB level like Barrero, Senzel and Marte would make sense. Instead the Reds hoard them like they are all first ballot HOFers and haven't learned a damn thing from past mistakes.
I know it isn't realistic with this franchise, but any FO with a gumption and wants to win now should have sent India to Seattle and unloaded the farm system for Julio Rodriguez and Luis Castillo. Actual difference makers!! To hell with the contracts, teams don't unload top prospects and assume entire contract so that is why the Reds would send a massive haul in prospects for the return with Seattle still eating a large portion of their deals. Rodriguez would mash in Great American Ballpark and boost the outfield. Castillo is proven in GABP with some postseason experience. Reds could easily trade them off and replenish the farm system in the next inevitable fire sale so zero excuses for the laziness, cheap skates and incompetence from the Reds FO.
Dodgers and Mets have changed the game with this horse **** deferred contract approach building super teams. The cheap skate approach by the Castellini's will have them building up half a decade making a run for the NL Wild Card spot with a narrow window to contend in before tearing it all down again. I get other teams including the Reds have had deferred contracts before but this Soto **** and what the Dodgers are doing is ridiculous as hell.
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They are expecting Francona to pull his same magic that he did for years in Cleveland with a team that spent less than Cincinnati while he was there. The Reds don't have a Jose Ramirez and they are sadly mistaken if they think a manager alone is going to fix the Reds without going out to make some additions to the outfield. Even Kansas City spent money last offseason and it paid off getting them to the ALDS. Signed Seth Lugo and Michael Wacha giving their organization two veteran starting pitchers. India this offseason. The small market excuse only goes so far when other teams like the Royals are spending wisely building around a young team with the right veterans.
Highly doubtful. If it was, then they wouldn't have kept running out the clowns they did in Fraley, Benson, Fairchild, for ex.
The Reds certainly have enough infielders and pitchers to make a deal that improves this team. It's the front office neglecting to do anything that improves the lineup offensively now and piss away another year with this current bunch. Krall talks a big game in the winter meetings about adding hitting in the outfield and doesn't do anything.
Where exactly do the Reds plan on playing all of these infield prospects? Trade some of them for quality outfielders. They are loaded with infielders who are the on the verge of the big leagues within 1-2 years like Stewart, Arroyo, Collier, Cabrera and down the road on Stafura, Lewis and Balcazar. There are even more that I did not even list because it is ridiculous how lopsided they are compared to the few legit OF prospects. Currently, they are going to be blocked by the likes of McLain, CES, Steer, Marte, Candelario and EDLC. Granted, the Reds are going to trade some of these guys in the future, they will get a return back that will further create a logjam with the incoming prospects from a new organization on top of all of the one previously mentioned.
Also, Cincinnati has taken multiple starting pitchers in recent drafts who they should consider moving some before it is too late like it became for Christian Roa and Bryce Hubbart with Roa pitching his way out of the organization because he got exposed for a joke. Hubbart gives up way too many walks still over the course of 3 years in the Reds system. Neither one has improved and steadily gotten worse each season in the minors. For the newcomers, sell high on their potential of a few before anyone can claim they are a bust and get complacent being stuck in the minors forever.
In a rotation with Greene, Lodolo, Abbott, Singer, Lowder & Martinez. Even when Martinez being older is out of the picture and another pitcher, possibly Singer who can leave after 2026. Chase Petty and Chase Burns are not far off. Some of those recently drafted pitchers from college with Ty Floyd, Hunter Hollan, Luke Holman, Luke Hayden and Tristan Smith who aren't far from MLB would be solid trade chips to use for a team looking to rebuild faster that needs pitching and the Reds should include a couple in potential trades. There are only 5 rotation spots to go around. Not enough room for all of these infielders and every single pitcher to keep being hoarded as this franchise does. Cincinnati needs to identify the ones that can help the Reds in the future or can be packaged in a trade. Would the Reds have been better off trading Phillips prior to 2024 before being sent back down to Rookie Ball this season after his first half struggles? He was better in the 2nd half in Louisville, but still unproven in MLB and there is no rotation spot for him. Any team is going to be concerned by his history with the 2024 1st half. Gave up 8 runs in one start in the AZFL. Like I said, you can wait too long on some of these prospects before their trade value plummets.
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Man, that confused me when I first saw it today. This player is not Ha-Seong Kim of the Padres. This Hyeseong Kim is coming straight over from Korea. Nevertheless, he's still a nice signing for the Dodgers.
Ha-Seong Kim (of the Padres) is still a free agent.
I wasn't confused. I read the article I posted that stated this is the import from Korea and been following his free agency. I am also aware that Ha-Seong Kim is still a FA.
Yeah, I didn't know if you were confused or not, but I sure was when my wife told me Ha-Seong Kim signed with the Dodgers lol. Then, I looked at the details and saw the amount and knew something was up. I didn't mean to imply you were confused, just that I was and posting for any others that might get confused too. I'm sure other Kim will just sign with the Yankees or something.
Like you, I wish the Reds would have make a run at a couple bats (especially in the OF). The rotation is pretty slick. But it's s really clear that ownership isn't interested though. With the expanded playoffs, there's no reason they shouldn't be trying to compete for a playoff berth. It's hard to believe it's been 30 years since they won a playoff series. That's sad.
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I really didn't intend for that post off like an ******* and apologize as bad as it read stating my understanding of Ha-Seong & Hyeseong. It is just frustrating to see the Dodgers continuing to spend money upgrading their team with the next tier of FA's too while Hernandez, Ohtani & Snell are all deferred. A contract that could be worth up to $22 million in the end on top of the posting fee to get him. Absolutely hate it and unfortunately don't see it ending as this is what the players bargained for in the last CBA.
Even more frustrating when Cincinnati hasn't done one thing to improve the offense. If I had a dollar every time the Reds showed interest in a player, could buy the Reds outright. I agree with you that this rotation is a strength and will only be better if Burns can rise through the ranks like Lowder did in one year. Infield just needs to get healthy and will be fine. I know I've belabored the point forever here, but trade some of the infielders where the pipeline is deeper in, teams always can use pitchers and package them in a trade for some outfielders. Been trying to get quality outfielders since Winker & Castellanos left. Ridiculous.
The Yankees is who I have seen the Padres infielder Kim linked too also. One of their insiders says New York most definitely is not finished upgrading their infield. They did not even offer Gleyber Torres a contract, so they clearly are going another direction. Would love to send some of the Reds infield prospects for their big time OF prospect Jasson Dominguez though it appears they finally have room for him to start now with Soto gone. Spencer Jones & Everson Pereira would be intriguing. A week ago, it appeared Kim was in the mix for Detroit before signing Torres.
No sweat at all. I didn't want you to think I was being a jerk haha
You're right though. The middle infield is locked down with Elly and McClain. Flip some of those infielders or infield prospects (Marte, Arroyo, Stewart, etc.) for someone who can help. Or shoot, just spend $60-$80M and lock down a quality veteran bat. I wouldn't even be mad if they overpaid a little to sign old man JD Martinez to hit and be a clubhouse influence.
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The Reds definitely need to spend more to have any chance at being a regular contender. Martinez is a good one that I wanted here for the last couple of years. A year removed from hitting 33 HRs, 103 RBIs. His veteran presence, play some RF/DH and have a bounce back season would be so much better than running out Fairchild and Benson regularly. A team like Colorado would really benefit from Cincinnati in a trade from the Reds infield prospects. I would be comfortable moving those you mentioned with Marte, Arroyo and Stewart in potential trades. Rockies infield needs an overhaul. Tovar is a great young SS, Farmer is old and the rest with Toglia and McMahon are 20+ HR hitters who are benefiting from the altitude at Coor's Field. Send the Reds Brenton Doyle with his speed and power. Lane Thomas was rumored to be a Reds trade target and could offer similar production to Doyle.
I think they need to hold into Arroyo because I can’t see them signing EDLC to anything long term. In a couple more years he’s going to be unaffordable for them and wind up on a big market club.
That isn't reason enough to hold onto Edwin Arroyo with all of the other legitimate options the Reds have stockpiled at SS. He will be blocked. EDLC isn't going anywhere with team control through 2029, and Arroyo could easily be ready for a callup at some point this year. Where are they going to play him? Trade him for a position of need in the outfield that better helps this team in a narrow window to contend in.
By the time EDLC is gone and Arroyo takes over, he would only be wasted then as this team takes another half decade to build back up for a run at a Wild Card spot. It isn't like they can't part with him with Tyson Lewis, Sammy Stafura, Balcazar, Mariano, Sheng-En Lin among other options this team has. Hell, McLain by then could slide over to SS if the Reds kept Stewart at 2B and Collier at 3B. The Reds need to start building for today and in the moment, instead of always thinking about tomorrow. Arroyo is this team's best trade chip in a position with depth that won't kill this franchise to part with.
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Nor should they. He should have been on the market immediately after his over hyped season, and the suckers would have been plentiful. A long term OF and SP would have been an easy get.
Marginal outfield experience at the big league level. I guess they can say he has "postseason experience", but that is all. So far has not lived up to the first round billing and further crowds the infield. Dodgers fans gave him the name Gavin Sux for a reason. Reds making a move for the hell of doing so rather than getting a legit outfielder. Dipshit Bowden already having to correct his report about the Reds shipping him to the Yankees.
The trade is fine, didn't give up a lot. Though it's not the big bat this team needs in the OF. Even Krall said as much they were looking for a bat and would like to do it in the outfield. Of course that hasn't happened. Lux has another year of arbitration next season so he will be back. That means CES, EDLC, Steer, Candelario, McLain, Marte & Lux will all be on the roster for 2026. Time to make that trade around Edwin Arroyo, a pitching prospect and get the outfielder this team is lacking. The best option at this point is through a trade. Reds played McLain some in CF in the AZFL. Lux has 6 starts in CF. Cincinnati needs to get a quality RF. I can live with Friedl, Fraley, Steer in LF, CF with Friedl, Lux & McLain depending on how the lineup will be. Any lineup that gives Benson & Fairchild routine playing time, especially in RF will be a disaster. Ruling out Santander for obvious reasons. RF with Fraley and bringing in Grichuk, Martinez, Verdugo, Laureano. Pretty much just scraps left, nothing exciting. Profar sounds like he is headed back to SD and is primarily a LF. Small market Royals out there still adding the right veterans around their team with Michael Lorenzen.
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'Fine' won't win you a World Series with the glaring weaknesses still on this team. Lux became expendable and the Dodgers easily gave him away replacing Lux with the Korean newcomer Hyeseong Kim. If Lux was on the verge of breaking out, why replace him with an unproven player if he was getting the job done? Gavin broke into the big leagues the same year as Senzel who had hot hitting months. The time is now to start proving yourself as a big league star which he was projected to be. Reminds me a lot of that former White Sox player/UGA Bulldog a buddy of mine went to HS with, Gordon Beckham. Same HS as Will Benson.
LA knew what they were doing selling high on his hot 2nd half hitting .301 with a .899 OPS. People are trying to sell Lux on he just needed to get healthy after 2023 are missing the fact his numbers for 2024 are on par with his career slashes. Don't buy the WAR garbage, India was a more productive player in one of the shittiest lineups in baseball and managed to stay on the field over 150 games twice in his career which Lux has yet to do. I hope the trade works out for the Reds, but Krall & FO don't get a pass to call it an offseason now.
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Have no idea what the Reds are doing, the last thing they needed was a career .250 hitting infielder. If the starting pitching holds up, maybe this team will make a run at the playoffs, but ONLY if the starting pitching holds up, no reason to think the offense, or relief pitching will be any better than what it has been of last few years.
McLain has no business in the OF. None. He is their best defensive infielder, and SS if you want to be specific. The infield should be CES/Lux/McLain/ and Elly at 3B for now. He doesn't need the pressure at SS coming off a horrendous season w/ the glove and needs to focus on his bat.
I'm sure Friedl still gets the majority of starts in CF. However, the McLain outfield experiment has already begun in the Arizona Fall League. I want the best players in the lineup every day. If that means McLain or Lux in CF for some starts, over the alternatives of Fairchild & Benson. So be it. They are the only two who have no business starting in the outfield next year. Elly De La Cruz is going to continue to be the shortstop. Whether fans like it or not, Marte & Candelario are still on this team and they will be hogging starts at 3B. The addition of Lux makes it even less likely this fantasy of EDLC at 3B becomes reality and eventually Collier will be the 3B.
This interview with McLain today with WLW addresses the potential move with the addition of Lux. McLain is already preparing as if he is going to be moving around next season. His versatility is as an asset that will boost his trade value marketing him with position versatility in a future trade, while putting the best players on the field every day he is in Cincinnati with the depth of infielders over the lack of quality outfielders.
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I am not thrilled by this trade either but bitching and moaning after the fact isn't going to reverse it. Seattle was interested in him. If the Reds front office had any gumption (which they don't) I would send one of Abbott or Lodolo, Lux, Marte and Arroyo to Seattle and try to get Luis Castillo back since they are fielding offers.
We all know that Benson/Fairchild/Fraley are rec league players imitating MLB players.
McLain doesn't need his trade value rising....he needs to be the only player currently on this roster that is not ever on the block.
Be sure to tweet Sadak your input. Maybe he can pass along your unsolicited advice on how the 2-time WS Champion manager Terry Francona should utilize his lineups and play his All-Star SS going into his first season.
You need to get real. No reason to even ponder the thought of Luis Castillo coming back to the Reds in his prime years. Cincinnati does not make trades like that.
You honestly believe after all of these years of Cincinnati trading off all of their stars in fire sales except Votto that McLain is going to somehow be the exception? Clueless as usual.
Collier hasn't even broken out of A Ball yet. Reds need to be concerned about putting forth the best lineup in 2025 with the assets currently on the roster than 2-3 years down the road. Even if he rises at the rate EDLC did in the minors, that would still have him at least 1 1/2 years (2026) when he would be in line to make his MLB debut for the current 20-year old prospect.
Why even say such a stupid statement that isn't going to happen? You blithering idiot.
No, I will not stop thinking of ways that improves this roster. You are letting them off the hook way too easy for a trade that could have been made that fits into the Reds budget. It is just good baseball business looking into an ace like Castillo who is proven in GABP, has the playoff experience and bring his cost down below what they are paying Nick Martinez before offering him $21 million. Castillo making just above $24 million. Can't tell me they could not have gotten creative to find a way to shed $3 million or like I said before in other posts, negotiate for less based on the return sent back to Seattle. Rather than throw $15-20 million at Nick Pivetta to get smoked in GABP as a fly ball pitcher, this makes more sense.
Never said Collier was in the Reds 2025 plans, neither is a move to 3B for EDLC with the logjam of infielders. Particularly at that position. Good luck convincing Jeimer Candelario & Marte both to being bench warmers when they are already going to share time with Lux. Only way this would have been possible is if the Reds moved on from Candelario (no one taking his contract), demoted Marte to get more work at Louisville every day in the lineup could you even remotely think about making this move. Like I said above, the Lux trade makes it less likely now. For one position, you have all of these players with 3B experience, Marte, Candelario, Steer, CES, Lux, McLain, EDLC & Espinal. Multiple players will be playing another position if they want to see the field regularly and DH is only one spot to free up starts at the hot corner. To the Collier point though, it wouldn't be the first time players that age took off in the minors and forced their way into the lineup sooner than later. Atlanta & Washington have had their fair share of age 20-21 prospects debut at the MLB level.
Fraley should not be an everyday starter at the MLB Level, but it is a stretch to say he doesn't belong on a ML roster. If he is a reserve, 4th-5th outfielder, that is a good outfield ahead of him. I'm aware that is not currently the case for the Reds with Fraley starting. That is why I continue to criticize Krall & the FO for failing to add a veteran outfielder so that the Reds don't run out the same ones as last year and force themselves to play people out of position with a makeshift outfield due to the cheapskate approach addressing the lineup this offseason. Teams don't stash All-Star outfielders on the bench which would be a role Fraley is fit for. The Reds have failed to add any quality starting outfielders since the two All-Star Starters with Winker & Castellanos in 2021. I am not the only one who is dissatisfied by the Reds not fixing the outfield. People should read the 10-page outfield thread started 2 weeks ago on the Old Red Guard and the 62-page thread on the same topic started in November.
Estevez would be a great addition to the Reds bullpen. Especially with the volatility from Alexis Diaz. An All-Star with 57 saves in the past 2 seasons.