Right to work.....finally

[UKRob 73]

For all the union sheep that bought the lie about "having to represent non union members" read this article. It even mentions the recent court case in Indiana where union idiots tried to use this argument. They were laughed out of the courtroom, the judge stated they "certainly do NOT have to represent non-union members if they didn't want to". It was ABSOLUTELY their choice whether they did or didn't.
Sorry 55wildcat, you were lied to, and you bought it.



http://www.courier-journal.com/stor...work-movement-changing-battlefields/20132113/

 

[chitown87]

That's not the unions fault..Nobody wants to work anymore. It's way way to easy to get the freebies that taxpayers fund..That's what people should be bitching about..JMO

Yes, it is. The entire national campaign for the $15 minimum wage is being paid for and advocated by unions. A higher minimum wage gives unions grounds to demand even higher wages from employers.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/major-labor-union-behind-push-for-15-minimum/article/2599172

 

[80 Proof]

Right to work allows a choice, and that scares unions to death. Liberals love taking choices away from people.

Dear Lord why is this difficult... Don't want to work for a union? DON'T APPLY AT A ******* UNION SHOP.

How do you feel about the government forcing corporations into a decision to offer their employee's health insurance? I'm sure your magic wandering logic mysteriously has an issue with that instance of the government forcing businesses into contractual decisions.

I've quit a job before because it went union, not everyone is as easily mobile or employable as myself though. Unions should take the stance that if a shop isn't union they should leave it alone. If a company doesn't want a union, the labor bosses can go where one already exists! Right?

Government forcing companies to have insurance is exactly like them forcing people to participate in unions. Right to work doesn't stop unions, it stops forced involvement.

Only a slug would claim that restricting freedom of choice is a good thing.

 

[Double Tay]

Dear Lord why is this difficult... Don't want to work for a union? DON'T APPLY AT A ****ING UNION SHOP.

How do you feel about the government forcing corporations into a decision to offer their employee's health insurance? I'm sure your magic wandering logic mysteriously has an issue with that instance of the government forcing businesses into contractual decisions.

Absolute looney tunes. Jesus.

 

[UKRob 73]

Do you even know how unions work? If the idiot "business owner" enters into a contract that hurts his business and that contract is anything other than a cba, do we pity him? Why don't we just pass laws that say businesses can't enter into bad contracts. Voila. What an outstanding ****ing law we passed.

A cba is a contract. If you're too stupid to figure out how to structure one where it doesn't destroy your business then your *** is too stupid to be in business to begin with.

RTW does nothing but prevent private entities from entering into a mutually agreed to contract. That is literally the definition of a RTW law. Sorry that you're too dense to comprehend that.

I promised I wouldn't respond to you because you are completely ignorant on this subject, but I couldn't resist.
There has never been a business that wanted to sign a deal with union's, that's not how it works. This is how it works, employees get a vote, vote passes, then BY LAW that business has to negotiate with said union. Businesses become handcuffed due to the fact that union's threaten strikes. Very few businesses can afford a strike, so they are handcuffed. The deal they strike with union's is very rarely any of their choosing.

 

[TransyCat09]

FIFY..That's management and scabs..reaping the rewards from union worker sweat..

[laughing]

Rent seekers and kulaks, man. Union workers have a much higher percentage of workers who do absolutely jack ish. I know this from having quite a few friends in various trades. Some are union and some aren't. They all say the exact same thing about the expectation of their output as it relates to keeping their job.

 

[Dr. H Lecter]

That's the way it was when I worked. I retired at 50..been retired now for ten years living the good life because of what MY UNION negotiated on my behalf..Matched funds dollar for dollar, pension (AND you got a pension even if you was not in the match dollar fund) which my wife will still get after I'm gone. Yep I know all these companies will easily give employees that as long as they do not unionize..Not going keep beating a dead horse..work all your life if you want your choice.

Google...International Harvester. Hopefully your EMPLOYER who funded your retirement not the union...hopefully your union doesnt kill the cash cow like Harvesters did.

 

[80 Proof]

It also allows you to coat tail without paying dues BUT still reap the benefits on what unions have/ will fight for like better wages, working conditions, INSURANCE, seniority, overtime pay after certain hours, pension and so on... It's called being a scab...yeah I'm union..32+ plus years and proud of it.

This actually isn't true. It's ilk the union's have spread for decades, and their gullible sheep have bought it.

A company I used to work for went union, and everyone's hourly rate went up. Too bad their net went down after union dues. So here we have a company paying more, employees taking home less, and a drop in productivity due to beueracracy. The unions got more money to give democrats though.

 

[UKRob 73]

That's the way it was when I worked. I retired at 50..been retired now for ten years living the good life because of what MY UNION negotiated on my behalf..Matched funds dollar for dollar, pension (AND you got a pension even if you was not in the match dollar fund) which my wife will still get after I'm gone. Yep I know all these companies will easily give employees that as long as they do not unionize..Not going keep beating a dead horse..work all your life if you want your choice.

It's been that way since the harley-taft act in 1947. It's federal law, look it up. Like I said, the union's duped you and the rest of the workers for years on this.
And RTW doesn't get rid of union's, it just gives YOU, the employee the right to belong or not. You are a union fan, great, you still get to choose to join the union. Why take that choice away from the guy on the line next to you?

 

[Bill Derington]

I'm in the IBEW, I think it behooves every person not in management in a manufacturing job to be in the union.
However, I also support RTW, simply because if their are no jobs there will be no unions. I worked in TN, even though people had the choice to opt out almost no one did, because they saw the benefit of being in the union. I also think people should have a choice.

As for the minimum wage, those saying the unions are to blame for it aren't seeing the big picture. People are now trying to support families on what has been previously first jobs for kids, and that's because of all the plants that have left.

 

[chitown87]

As for the minimum wage, those saying the unions are to blame for it aren't seeing the big picture. People are now trying to support families on what has been previously first jobs for kids, and that's because of all the plants that have left.

It's a lot simpler than that. Unions want higher minimum wages so that they can demand higher wages from employers for their own members.

 

[Double Tay]

I'm in the IBEW, I think it behooves every person not in management in a manufacturing job to be in the union.
However, I also support RTW, simply because if their are no jobs there will be no unions. I worked in TN, even though people had the choice to opt out almost no one did, because they saw the benefit of being in the union. I also think people should have a choice.

As for the minimum wage, those saying the unions are to blame for it aren't seeing the big picture. People are now trying to support families on what has been previously first jobs for kids, and that's because of all the plants that have left.

Why did the plants all leave?

 

[Bill Derington]

It's a lot simpler than that. Unions want higher minimum wages so that they can demand higher wages from employers for their own members.

I disagree, I worked in fast food 20 years ago, it was all kids except for the managers. Now it's adults trying to raise a family, sure the union got involved, that's how it's always worked when workers are frustrated.

People that used to be able to find a decent job to provide for the family simply can't do it any longer.

Are the unions going to try and use it in negotiations..absolutely. However that's not what's driving the root problem.

 

[Bill Derington]

Why did the plants all leave?

They left because they were able to without any ramifications.

 

[chitown87]

I disagree, I worked in fast food 20 years ago, it was all kids except for the managers. Now it's adults trying to raise a family, sure the union got involved, that's how it's always worked when workers are frustrated.

People that used to be able to find a decent job to provide for the family simply can't do it any longer.

Are the unions going to try and use it in negotiations..absolutely. However that's not what's driving the root problem.

First, that's an over-generalization(is that a word?). Tons of kids still working in fast food.

Second, unions look out for unions, and to a lesser extent, union members. That's it. They aren't spending tens of millions of dollars to campaign for a higher minimum wage out of altruism.

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

I've quit a job before because it went union, not everyone is as easily mobile or employable as myself though. Unions should take the stance that if a shop isn't union they should leave it alone. If a company doesn't want a union, the labor bosses can go where one already exists! Right?

Government forcing companies to have insurance is exactly like them forcing people to participate in unions. Right to work doesn't stop unions, it stops forced involvement.

Only a slug would claim that restricting freedom of choice is a good thing.

But RTW restricts freedom of choice. It's the only scenario in this ENTIRE discussion that restricts freedom of choice. It's clear that this fact isn't going to get thru your thick skull.

The government has never forced someone in a private company to participate in a union. That is some of the most inane line of thought I have ever read.

As to your first point, Unions almost exclusively arise because workers are being exploited. You think people just fork their money over in dues because they want to be able to say they are part of a club? More ridiculous arguments from the ignorants ITT.

 

[chitown87]

But RTW restricts freedom of choice. It's the only scenario in this ENTIRE discussion that restricts freedom of choice. It's clear that this fact isn't going to get thru your thick skull.

I mean...are you trolling?

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

I promised I wouldn't respond to you because you are completely ignorant on this subject, but I couldn't resist.
There has never been a business that wanted to sign a deal with union's, that's not how it works. This is how it works, employees get a vote, vote passes, then BY LAW that business has to negotiate with said union. Businesses become handcuffed due to the fact that union's threaten strikes. Very few businesses can afford a strike, so they are handcuffed. The deal they strike with union's is very rarely any of their choosing.

Too bad, so sad.

You're conveniently ignoring the fact that accepting a cba vs. a strike is still a choice. Sorry you're so ignorant you don't understand the definition of the word choice. Y'know... Sometimes (most ******* times) a dilemma has negative connotations on both sides. Did you really not realize this?

 

[Bill Derington]

First, that's an over-generalization(is that a word?). Tons of kids still working in fast food.

Second, unions look out for unions, and to a lesser extent, union members. That's it. They aren't spending tens of millions of dollars to campaign for a higher minimum wage out of altruism.

It's not an over generalization, it's reality.

I didn't say they were doing it out of the goodness of their heart. However, it's a pact that benefits both parties. The worker and the union, and they each rely on the other.

 

[Bill Derington]

I mean...are you trolling?

It is cheaper to operate in third world countries, do you disagree?

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

I mean...are you trolling?

Here are the scenarios under non RTW laws:

Employees have choice to work for union shop or not work for union shop.
Employers have choice to enter into a fully binding CBA or not to.

Here are the scenarios under RTW laws:

Employees have choice to work for union shop or not work for union shop.
Employers (and unions) DO NOT have choice to enter into a fully binding CBA. This has been eliminated by outside interests (legislators).

This shouldn't be difficult for someone to understand that is capable of accessing the internet and yet there is somehow a universal permeating idiocy on this board.

 

[TransyCat09]

The "industrial workers now flip burgers" argument is ridiculous. 60% of fast food workers are under 24. Factor in the large percentage of women (almost 60%) and immigrants (16%) and the demographic makeup of the fast food industry doesn't support that claim. Of course this can be applied to lots of other areas, not just fast food.

I disagree, I worked in fast food 20 years ago, it was all kids except for the managers. Now it's adults trying to raise a family, sure the union got involved, that's how it's always worked when workers are frustrated.

People that used to be able to find a decent job to provide for the family simply can't do it any longer.

 

[cardkilla_rivals379685]

It is really no surprise that the decrease in wages coincided with the destruction of unions. Real wages haven't increased much since the late 70's. Used to be workers shared in productivity gains but no longer.

People are simply just too dumb to understand how the wealthy manipulate them into voting against their own interests. Low wages are good for everybody!!

Kentucky is not competitive because the workforce here is low skilled labor that is not as necessary in the modern economy. The South is poorer than the rest of the country due to this and god awful education systems run by people who believe the world is 6,000 years old.

 

[80 Proof]

It's been that way since the harley-taft act in 1947. It's federal law, look it up. Like I said, the union's duped you and the rest of the workers for years on this.
And RTW doesn't get rid of union's, it just gives YOU, the employee the right to belong or not. You are a union fan, great, you still get to choose to join the union. Why take that choice away from the guy on the line next to you?

simple question..do you think you should get the same pay/benefits a union paying member gets? and if so what is right about that. Union goes on strike because of IE horrid working conditions,should a non due paying employee get the same improvements or should he still work in those same horrid conditions..What about a strike stipend? Would a non member cry because he does not receive stipend from union or would he cross a picket line..

I can take care of myself, I don't need to be a part of a herd to succeed. I can negotiate my own salary and benefits, and if the job is bad I'll go find another one. I also don't want to be told I can't work because others want to strike. I don't have to worry and out crossing a picket line because I'm not a union groupie. Though I am an independent contractor now, and if I could make money doing a job someone else was refusing to do I would have no problem doing it.

 

[Mattox]

Certainly a huge benefit of making KY a RTW state would come by the elimination of the Prevailing Wage. Every single construction project...for example at UK...has carried this outrageous provision that has driven up the cost of every project that we as tax payers have had to pay for.

Repealing prevailing wage passed committee today too. It just got overshadowed by the RTW and abortion bills.

 

[Bill Derington]

The "industrial workers now flip burgers" argument is ridiculous. 60% of fast food workers are under 24. Factor in the large percentage of women (almost 60%) and immigrants (16%) and the demographic makeup of the fast food industry doesn't support that claim. Of course this can be applied to lots of other areas, not just fast food.

Of course it does, what is the other 40%?
Look, I worked in the fast food industry pre NAFTA, it was 90% high school and college kids, it simply isn't that way any longer.

I think it's silly for fast food workers to try and organize, but I also understand why they try.

 

[80 Proof]

I've quit a job before because it went union, not everyone is as easily mobile or employable as myself though. Unions should take the stance that if a shop isn't union they should leave it alone. If a company doesn't want a union, the labor bosses can go where one already exists! Right?

Government forcing companies to have insurance is exactly like them forcing people to participate in unions. Right to work doesn't stop unions, it stops forced involvement.

Only a slug would claim that restricting freedom of choice is a good thing.

But RTW restricts freedom of choice. It's the only scenario in this ENTIRE discussion that restricts freedom of choice. It's clear that this fact isn't going to get thru your thick skull.

The government has never forced someone in a private company to participate in a union. That is some of the most inane line of thought I have ever read.

You're like a living oxymoron. How does allowing someone to choose to be in a union restrict choice?

And if the government isn't forcing people to be in unions then why is right to work now being legislated?

 

[Bill Derington]

You're like a living oxymoron. How does allowing someone to choose to be in a union restrict choice?

And if the government isn't forcing people to be in unions then why is right to work now being legislated?

If you're talking to me I posted I'm in favor of RTW, and while they're at it repeal the state income tax.

 

[80 Proof]

You're like a living oxymoron. How does allowing someone to choose to be in a union restrict choice?

And if the government isn't forcing people to be in unions then why is right to work now being legislated?

If you're talking to me I posted I'm in favor of RTW, and while they're at it repeal the state income tax.

Not referring to you Bill, I've debated you on this subject for a decade now and respect your stance (even though I mostly disagree with it).

I was referring to the poster I quoted, who can't make an objective post without name calling, cursing, and flamboyant rhetoric.

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

You're like a living oxymoron. How does allowing someone to choose to be in a union restrict choice?

And if the government isn't forcing people to be in unions then why is right to work now being legislated?

1. Because it takes away a primary choice of one party for the secondary choice of a 3rd party. Try to comprehend this.

2. Because businesses are too dumb/weak to avoid signing CBAs. And if you think RTW has any interest at all in protecting the choices of workers then that just might be the dumbest position in a thread full of epic dumbness.

 

[80 Proof]

You're like a living oxymoron. How does allowing someone to choose to be in a union restrict choice?

And if the government isn't forcing people to be in unions then why is right to work now being legislated?

1. Because it takes away a primary choice of one party for the secondary choice of a 3rd party. Try to comprehend this.

2. Because businesses are too dumb/weak to avoid signing CBAs. And if you think RTW has any interest at all in protecting the choices of workers then that just might be the dumbest position in a thread full of epic dumbness.

false

 

[krazykats]

I think the problem is crazyqx is so in the forest he can't see past the trees.

He is solely concerned about the unions ability(or lack of) to negotiate once enough employees refuse the union protection. He also may be one that doesn't abuse the union which is a reason a lot of people are against them.

My cousin busted his *** at UPS and eventually got on full time and hit $21 an hour with out going to college. And he for years laughed at me in non union positions as I grew up the ladder and leveled out our pay. But about 5 years ago I began making more than he was and about that time he tweaked his back somehow and the union protected him and he now pushes a broom at UPS for $21 an hour........and I'll be damned if he doesn't still act like I'm the idiot for working too hard for more money.

Maybe the pro union guys in this thread do not run across these users and abusers or maybe they do and don't care. But I for one think about my lazy cousin getting overpaid every time I use UPS and wonder if my cost would go down if they didn't protect him and others like him!

I do realize unions have their place, but we do not operate in sweat shops anymore. There is a lot more competition in America than in the 20's and 30's when unions were necessary. Of course union people can not comprehend why they are a big reason as to why manufacturing left America, but as RTW overcomes these unions they will realize soon why manufacturing comes back and it may break a lot of unions up too!

 

[rmattox]

Here are the scenarios under non RTW laws:

Employees have choice to work for union shop or not work for union shop.
Employers have choice to enter into a fully binding CBA or not to.

Here are the scenarios under RTW laws:

Employees have choice to work for union shop or not work for union shop.
Employers (and unions) DO NOT have choice to enter into a fully binding CBA. This has been eliminated by outside interests (legislators).

This shouldn't be difficult for someone to understand that is capable of accessing the internet and yet there is somehow a universal permeating idiocy on this board.

I see what you are saying. I would question the part about employers (voluntarily) entering a fully binding CBA. I've never known an employer agreeing to a CBA unless it feared the ramifications of not doing so. Maybe I'm still missing the point.

Good unions are good. A good union protects not only the employee but recognizes the absolute necessity of being fair to the employer. I've seen instances of unions supporting employers on employee dismissal issues particularly when the employee in question was essentially a lazy, good for nothing. Unfortunately, I've seen unions support similar employees at the expense of the welfare of the employer. It has to benefit BOTH parties.

 

[cardkilla_rivals379685]

I think the problem is crazyqx is so in the forest he can't see past the trees.

He is solely concerned about the unions ability(or lack of) to negotiate once enough employees refuse the union protection. He also may be one that doesn't abuse the union which is a reason a lot of people are against them.

My cousin busted his *** at UPS and eventually got on full time and hit $21 an hour with out going to college. And he for years laughed at me in non union positions as I grew up the ladder and leveled out our pay. But about 5 years ago I began making more than he was and about that time he tweaked his back somehow and the union protected him and he now pushes a broom at UPS for $21 an hour........and I'll be damned if he doesn't still act like I'm the idiot for working too hard for more money.

Maybe the pro union guys in this thread do not run across these users and abusers or maybe they do and don't care. But I for one think about my lazy cousin getting overpaid every time I use UPS and wonder if my cost would go down if they didn't protect him and others like him!

I do realize unions have their place, but we do not operate in sweat shops anymore. There is a lot more competition in America than in the 20's and 30's when unions were necessary. Of course union people can not comprehend why they are a big reason as to why manufacturing left America, but as RTW overcomes these unions they will realize soon why manufacturing comes back and it may break a lot of unions up too!

People are against unions because they are petty and jealous. I would guess the percentage of union workers slacking off is no worse than the non-union workers slacking off. Most office workers spend tons of time on Amazon or social media instead of working. Many on here while 'working' at their non-union jobs.

It seems to me that people are willing to give up every single right they have to businesses. Without even fighting, they take less pay, less vacation days, and bend over and take it. Great example here: took you what 10 years or so to make more than he did? What an accomplishment! Please master, give me more crumbs. You either work for yourself or you take the crumbs they give you and say Thanks!

 

[krazykats]

Well considering I didn't take work/career seriously until I was 26 and skipped college from 22-25 and half assed my time at UK from 19-22 that wasn't anyone's fault but my own. He went to UPS straight out of HS and made $21 from the time he was like 22/23.

I still do not think he made more, I just had to work two jobs bartending on weekends while only making 28K starting out in accounting. As I made more which only really took 4 years for me to go from 28K to 51K but I had to move companies twice to do it.

It's funny though that you focus on my part or role in that post instead of seeing the fact that a union protects a lazy employee because of a back problem(medically) but every time I see him in the summer at family functions he is wrestling with the kids, playing basketball, and generally showing his medical diagnosis was BS. Maybe you are right and there are as many non union lazy employee's.........but they aren't protected in non-union positions.

But good for him, right? I bet the person who pays his checks should be happy to have a broom pusher for $21 and hour 40 hours a week.

Guaranteed!

 

[TransyCat09]

I would guess the percentage of union workers slacking off is no worse than the non-union workers slacking off.

Your guess would be wrong. Status quo, it seems

 

[Dr. H Lecter]

Repealing prevailing wage passed committee today too. It just got overshadowed by the RTW and abortion bills.

Very good news. The PW is not something people outside the construction industry understand. They have no idea that with wages and benefits a non union firm must pay 50 or 60 dollars per hour to their carpenters or electricians. Same goes for Davis Bacon act wages.

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

I think the problem is crazyqx is so in the forest he can't see past the trees.

He is solely concerned about the unions ability(or lack of) to negotiate once enough employees refuse the union protection. He also may be one that doesn't abuse the union which is a reason a lot of people are against them.

My cousin busted his *** at UPS and eventually got on full time and hit $21 an hour with out going to college. And he for years laughed at me in non union positions as I grew up the ladder and leveled out our pay. But about 5 years ago I began making more than he was and about that time he tweaked his back somehow and the union protected him and he now pushes a broom at UPS for $21 an hour........and I'll be damned if he doesn't still act like I'm the idiot for working too hard for more money.

Maybe the pro union guys in this thread do not run across these users and abusers or maybe they do and don't care. But I for one think about my lazy cousin getting overpaid every time I use UPS and wonder if my cost would go down if they didn't protect him and others like him!

I do realize unions have their place, but we do not operate in sweat shops anymore. There is a lot more competition in America than in the 20's and 30's when unions were necessary. Of course union people can not comprehend why they are a big reason as to why manufacturing left America, but as RTW overcomes these unions they will realize soon why manufacturing comes back and it may break a lot of unions up too!

1. I am not part of a union.

2. People strangely have this choice to not work for union companies or purchase things from union companies. But they are crybaby bitches so they force the government to undermine unions thru legislation, instead.

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

Very good news. The PW is not something people outside the construction industry understand. They have no idea that with wages and benefits a non union firm must pay 50 or 60 dollars per hour to their carpenters or electricians. Same goes for Davis Bacon act wages.

DB wages for most determinations don't even approach those rates in non-urban areas. But It is ridiculous how widely those rates range from county to county.

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

3 pages in 2.5 hrs. This one is going yard.