Right to work.....finally

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

Again depending on what you are calling a carpenter most framers and trim guys make that easy.

Let's say you have a 2000 sq ft house and the framers charge $4.50-6 a foot. They are getting 9000-12,000 for the job and typically knock that size project out in 5 days if the supplier is on point. That's a 4-6 man crew working and banking that in a week. Granted each guy may not make the same but if you average hours per guy I think you'll easily get over $50 an hour.

Plumbers and electricians get $85 an hour

In the same way framers avg more trim guys do the same as well.

Businesses don't function to pay the employees as much as the owners. If you think a framing sub is paying people $50 an hour because $12k into 240 man hours is $50 an hour, then I don't know what to tell you... It's likely 4 of them are getting paid $18 and the owner is taking the rest in overhead and profit.

I've seen quite a few certified payroll reports to substantiate this position.

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

If you think carpenters make $12-$15 hour then you are totally out of touch.

If you think they are making much more than $20, you're completely out of touch. People generally pay the least amount that they can get away with. This is typically right at the mandated wage on prevailing or DB scale jobs. If you think people are magically paying a lot more than that when there are no mandated thresholds, that's a whole different level of delusion.

Labor statistics websites report that the average carpenter nationwide makes between $19-$20 an hour. I know those aren't always accurate, but based on that and what I've seen first hand, I'd say it's not far off.

 

[krazykats]

I am glad Bevin is doing this for workers and not big business. I am sure the jobs will come rolling in asap.

Actually in a lot of areas they are. A lot of people do not realize it but the BG area as well as Paducah, Louisville and Lexington have a ton of potential currently and the there has been a lot of things getting done in our state that is bringing more people in.

With the right to work being passed it creates more jobs overall allowing these people some work.

 

[slick rick.ksr]

Overwhelming number of Mexicans have fake ID and fake Social Security numbers

 

[BlueVelvetFog]

Odd how that map is eerily similar to this one...

...and this one

 

[krazykats]

Crazyqx you are correct in that it doesn't just end up being that way. Also things that happen is the balance of jobs so the main guy has 3 jobs at the same time but has 3 on one, 4 on one, and 6 on another.........I was giving an example.

Could it be he pays $20 and hour and keeps the profit? Sure until his crew works in the same neighborhood as another who pays $25 and is too busy right now to keep up.......so guess what happens then?

My point is it doesn't take a union to resolve that.

Unions were but in place by the damn mob who learned protection pays. Labor forces were too weak back in the day to stand up and demand more/better. But we aren't back in the day anymore and people shouldn't need a damn union for protection.

Companies shouldn't be strangled by the unions either.

You see it different and that's fine, as an employee I would get it. I just have an incentive based job where I produce and get paid, or I produce a lot and get paid a lot. No need for a union for those hungry enough to go get it.

 

[ktbug]

Better than bringing our destruction which is where we are heading with the left.

Low unemployment, record stock market, relative peace, and a 2/3rd reduction in the budget deficit has been terrible. I am sure Trump will accomplish all these.

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

Unions are effing worthless. All they do is try to make the union stronger to where it cares about the union not the organization/company. They are also good at blowing money.

Unions: where you don't have to work hard just show up and take money from the people who actually produce who could be paid more.

 

[BlueVelvetFog]

Are unions still tied to a mob/mafia/syndicate?

 

[krazykats]

Welp here comes the politics.

Stop touting BS spewed by your BS party. Low unemployment my ***!

You do know that since Trump was elected the stock market has spiked? I mean Obama did good to get it back up for sure.......10T added to the national debt certainly helped right?

As far as 2/3 defecit resuction, again 10T added to our national debt. Even if you blame 40% on bush......6T would have been a F ton to add! Also if you blame bush for that then you must realize the 2/3 number you give credit for is inflated due to where we were in 08......right?

Or do you only need to be held accountable for the "good" stats.

 

[Dr. H Lecter]

Low unemployment, record stock market, relative peace, and a 2/3rd reduction in the budget deficit has been terrible. I am sure Trump will accomplish all these.

Touting the record stock market. You do understand that this is simply where the 1% gain their record wealth disparity. You guys argue that this is a horrible thing...and then take credit for it happening. Hypocrites.

Record numbers have left the work force and are no longer looking for jobs. That is why the unemployment rate is artificially low. Relative peace...as Obama sends troops to the Russian border to saber rattle. Doubled the size of the numbers of Amercan boots on the ground in Iraq quietly. Peace? Ask all of the dead in Chicago what they think about peace.

 

[oldsports_]

Unions are effing worthless. All they do is try to make the union stronger to where it cares about the union not the organization/company. They are also good at blowing money.

So, you are a union member, and this is your experience?
Learn how to look up info yourself, and not have Bevin to tell you what is best for Ky workers. Google "States ranking per capita income", tell me what you see. I see a high percentage of RTW states who boast about job creation, at or near the bottom. Why, because these states are creating jobs that can not support the income needed to support a 4-5 person family. Yes, RTW will create jobs, 9-11 dollars/hr, all in the while they will make you pay 300 per month for your healthcare. Such a great deal for the Ky workers, but I guess when they make you work 60 hours a week, no family time, you can pay for your own benefits. Be proud Ky!

 

[CrittendenWildcat]

Prevailing wage is a gift to employees who are non-union, given by the government to prop up unions on the taxpayer's dime. Where a contractor might pay non-union employees $15 per hour for labor, PW rates may require $40 per hour (wage+benefits). If the open market for labor, based on supply and demand, arrives at $15 an hour for the work being done, how mind-blowingly illogical is it that our government requires contractors pay their workers 2X-3X times that, which in turn increases the cost of the project for absolutely no good reason?

"Prevailing Wage" is an egregious misnomer, as the wage it dictates is extremely inflated when compared to the wage for labor that actually prevails in the locality.

 

[UKRob 73]

So, you are a union member, and this is your experience?
Learn how to look up info yourself, and not have Bevin to tell you what is best for Ky workers. Google "States ranking per capita income", tell me what you see. I see a high percentage of RTW states who boast about job creation, at or near the bottom. Why, because these states are creating jobs that can not support the income needed to support a 4-5 person family. Yes, RTW will create jobs, 9-11 dollars/hr, all in the while they will make you pay 300 per month for your healthcare. Such a great deal for the Ky workers, but I guess when they make you work 60 hours a week, no family time, you can pay for your own benefits. Be proud Ky!

You serious Clark? Of course RTW States have lower per capita income. Most RTW states are in the south, which has always had lower per capita income. The real test is how states compare AFTER RTW. And as the link above showed, the states with the highest income growth are RTW states.
The foreign automotive manufacturers are all over the south, none are union and they all pay a good wage, good benefits etc.
It's just like when Toyota came to ky, you union fools screamed that if they didn't unionize they wouldn't pay well, no benefits, unsafe working conditions blah blah blah.
Here we are 30 years later, Toyota has never unionized and they pay comparable to what Ford down the road pays. They also offer more job security than UAW plants like Ford.
It just simply isn't true, it's been proven over and over.

 

[Bill Derington]

Why does Toyota in Georgetown pay so well? Think it's because Camry sells, or because Ford is next door?

 

[YourPublicEnemy]

Low unemployment, record stock market, relative peace, and a 2/3rd reduction in the budget deficit has been terrible. I am sure Trump will accomplish all these.

Haha.

 

[louisvillesux]

Why does Toyota in Georgetown pay so well? Think it's because Camry sells, or because Ford is next door?

exactly. when employees can collectively bargain they can obtain greater wages and benefits. those wage gains carry over to non union jobs as well. i have no problems with bevin, hes inherited a mess. but this will only serve to hurt workers in the state.

 

[warrior-cat]

Low unemployment, record stock market, relative peace, and a 2/3rd reduction in the budget deficit has been terrible. I am sure Trump will accomplish all these.

[laughing] Most people on welfare ever, lower paying jobs, more part time jobs, lower wages, world in chaos with terror, doubled the debt in 8 years, racism running wild in U.S., loss of many political seats for democrats, healthcare cost more than doubling yeah, Obama has taken care of the Koolaide drinkers like yourself. Record stock market is reaction to Trump being elected and companies staying in country a reaction to Trump's request, even before getting in office Trump is making a positive impact before actually taking over.

 

[80 Proof]

Prevailing wage is a gift to employees who are non-union, given by the government to prop up unions on the taxpayer's dime. Where a contractor might pay non-union employees $15 per hour for labor, PW rates may require $40 per hour (wage+benefits). If the open market for labor, based on supply and demand, arrives at $15 an hour for the work being done, how mind-blowingly illogical is it that our government requires contractors pay their workers 2X-3X times that, which in turn increases the cost of the project for absolutely no good reason?

"Prevailing Wage" is an egregious misnomer, as the wage it dictates is extremely inflated when compared to the wage for labor that actually prevails in the locality.

Not to mention, most contractors won't bid PW jobs because of the massive amount of paperwork required. Last one I did was a very low margin job because of all the time spend filling out hundreds of pages of questionaires.

 

[BernieSadori]

"Forced-Unionism" is a hilarious propaganda term.

Don't want to work somewhere with a union? Then don't apply to work somewhere with a union. Really ****ing difficult concept to grasp, I know...

It's been a long time since I've worked in a union shop (thank, God) so I may be off base with my question.
What are your feelings about a company that started non-union, then has an employee vote to become union? 50%, right? At that point, the owner has no choice but to negotiate in good faith and his/her hands are basically tied.

In this example, someone took a job that wasn't union, then was FORCED to join. Is that fair?

 

[3rex]

Low unemployment, record stock market, relative peace, and a 2/3rd reduction in the budget deficit has been terrible. I am sure Trump will accomplish all these.

This is an interesting thread. There is a political thread. Go there.

 

[BernieSadori]

Why does Toyota in Georgetown pay so well? Think it's because Camry sells, or because Ford is next door?

What is near Spartansburg, SC that makes BMW pay well and offer great benefits?

 

[BernieSadori]

Low unemployment, record stock market, relative peace, and a 2/3rd reduction in the budget deficit has been terrible. I am sure Trump will accomplish all these.

Ha. Crock...of....****.
Can you even explain why the stock market is at an all time high? It was at a record number during Bush too...but it was a bad thing that only helped the rich then. BTW, I love where it is now.

Low unemployment: See under-employment and get back to us.

Relative peace: Look at the ****-storm Obama hasn't dealt with and will pass off to the next President. Peace....ha.

Poop....thought this was the political thread. Respond there after you do some research.

 

[Dr. H Lecter]

Ha. Crock...of....****.
Can you even explain why the stock market is at an all time high? It was at a record number during Bush too...but it was a bad thing that only helped the rich then. BTW, I love where it is now.

Low unemployment: See under-employment and get back to us.

Relative peace: Look at the ****-storm Obama hasn't dealt with and will pass off to the next President. Peace....ha.

Poop....thought this was the political thread. Respond there after you do some research.

The left talks out of both sides of its mouth in order to demonize. It talks about wealth disparity of the 1%. How the richest 1% have widened the gap on the rest. Then they brag about the stock market being at a record. They hold that up as an accomplishment that they are very proud of.

Okay..... The 1% have their wealth....in the market. The rest have their wealth...tied up in their houses. The Fed kept interest rates low so the big money folks went to the market to get a return. The 99 percent are now watching their home prices (their wealth) grow slowly...though in the right direction.

So the shallow thinkers like him who now love Obama's stock market really need to figure out which group they want to demonize for votes. They cant have it both ways.

 

[CrittendenWildcat]

Not to mention, most contractors won't bid PW jobs because of the massive amount of paperwork required. Last one I did was a very low margin job because of all the time spend filling out hundreds of pages of questionaires.

Just the PW Reports/Notifications themselves are a PITA, but one we've grown to live with and accept as a necessary cost (added in to the bid, of course) of doing commercial work. But then, you have the PW coordinator who wants everything exactly so....and THEN, you have LCPTracker, which is on another plane of time-wasting activities, you can waste an afternoon entering unnecessary and arcane information about a few days of work for a couple of workers.

 

[Bill Derington]

What is near Spartansburg, SC that makes BMW pay well and offer great benefits?

Toyota in Georgetown pays more, they have to pay similar to Ford that's next door. Because if they don't guess what the workers will start to think?

I'm also not saying the nonunion plants don't pay decent, Im sure they do.

 

[ktbug]

Welp here comes the politics.

Stop touting BS spewed by your BS party. Low unemployment my ***!

You do know that since Trump was elected the stock market has spiked? I mean Obama did good to get it back up for sure.......10T added to the national debt certainly helped right?

As far as 2/3 defecit resuction, again 10T added to our national debt. Even if you blame 40% on bush......6T would have been a F ton to add! Also if you blame bush for that then you must realize the 2/3 number you give credit for is inflated due to where we were in 08......right?

Or do you only need to be held accountable for the "good" stats.

You can't pay down the debt until; there is a surplus. Without any help from the other side he has taken 1.7 trillion down to 400 billion. Blaming Bush for 40% of the problem is laughable. Bush took a 200 billion surplus and turned it into a 1.7 trillion deficit.

Yes, unemployment under 5%, people begging for skilled workers. Compare that to 2009, yeah he really crapped the bed.

 

[ktbug]

Ha. Crock...of....****.
Can you even explain why the stock market is at an all time high? It was at a record number during Bush too...but it was a bad thing that only helped the rich then. BTW, I love where it is now.
How did that record high end????


Low unemployment: See under-employment and get back to us.
Ahh yes, the mystery number. When is 5% unemployment not 5%, when you have to credit a Dem Admin.

Relative peace: Look at the ****-storm Obama hasn't dealt with and will pass off to the next President. Peace....ha.

Poop....thought this was the political thread. Respond there after you do some research.

**** storm like Iraq and Afghanistan? Overthrowing Saddam for what some Saudi's did is the genesis for much of the current unrest. Not knowing a Sunni form a Shite and the problems medding in the region would cause under W's watch has us where we are. Obama could have handled it better, but he could have done much worse.

 

[ktbug]

[laughing] Most people on welfare ever, lower paying jobs, more part time jobs, lower wages, world in chaos with terror, doubled the debt in 8 years, racism running wild in U.S., loss of many political seats for democrats, healthcare cost more than doubling yeah, Obama has taken care of the Koolaide drinkers like yourself. Record stock market is reaction to Trump being elected and companies staying in country a reaction to Trump's request, even before getting in office Trump is making a positive impact before actually taking over.

Yes a 250% increase in the market the last years is because of Trump. Trump paid Carrier 6 million to stsy for 750 jobs. Yeah, that is the reason for it all.

I betcha think he's gonna build that wall right?

 

[ktbug]

You serious Clark? Of course RTW States have lower per capita income. Most RTW states are in the south, which has always had lower per capita income. The real test is how states compare AFTER RTW. And as the link above showed, the states with the highest income growth are RTW states.
The foreign automotive manufacturers are all over the south, none are union and they all pay a good wage, good benefits etc.
It's just like when Toyota came to ky, you union fools screamed that if they didn't unionize they wouldn't pay well, no benefits, unsafe working conditions blah blah blah.
Here we are 30 years later, Toyota has never unionized and they pay comparable to what Ford down the road pays. They also offer more job security than UAW plants like Ford.
It just simply isn't true, it's been proven over and over.

Toyota pays a great wage because they don't want a union, not because they are great guys. Keep you employees happy and you they don't need one. The workers in Georgetown have benefited greatly for fear of the UAW without having to pay into it.

 

[crazyqx83_rivals88013]

It's been a long time since I've worked in a union shop (thank, God) so I may be off base with my question.
What are your feelings about a company that started non-union, then has an employee vote to become union? 50%, right? At that point, the owner has no choice but to negotiate in good faith and his/her hands are basically tied.

In this example, someone took a job that wasn't union, then was FORCED to join. Is that fair?

Find another job, then. There are hundreds of thousands of examples where changes are made at a company that are completely out of the control of employees. When it's management sticking it to the workers, we just accept it. When it's workers sticking it to the management, it's the end of the world. Totally bizarro concept.

You don't have a right to work. There is no inalieanable right to be employed by someone else. It's a pure propaganda phrase used by large corporate interests to make the lowly laborer think that somehow getting bent over and reemed is equivalent to them gaining some huge victory of basic human rights. And like always, the brainwashed lemmings that champion everything the GOP does (98% of catpaw) lap it up like the useless sheep they are.

 

[krazykats]

So you agree a union isn't necessary then! Makes sense.

You know what else has happened? Toyota makes a better damn truck now too. Go figure

 

[Dore95]

Union dues are the lifeblood of unions. Without dues paying members (or non-members who have to pay their share) unions have a hard time operating. RTW laws prohibit unions from requiring anyone to pay union dues, and thus have a direct effect on the unions' bottom line. Without money, unions can't afford usual organizing activity including corporate campaigns.

Anyone who considers themselves pro-business, i.e. anyone in management or who hopes to be in management, should be pro RTW.

 

[3rex]

**** storm like Iraq and Afghanistan? Overthrowing Saddam for what some Saudi's did is the genesis for much of the current unrest. Not knowing a Sunni form a Shite and the problems medding in the region would cause under W's watch has us where we are. Obama could have handled it better, but he could have done much worse.

This thread is about RTW. Try to keep up. It's message board 101.

 

[80 Proof]

What is near Spartansburg, SC that makes BMW pay well and offer great benefits?

Toyota in Georgetown pays more, they have to pay similar to Ford that's next door. Because if they don't guess what the workers will start to think?

I'm also not saying the nonunion plants don't pay decent, Im sure they do.

Not true, Ford plant is in Jefferson County over an hour away from Toyota. Not a feasible drive for someone working at Toyota.

 

[80 Proof]

[laughing] Most people on welfare ever, lower paying jobs, more part time jobs, lower wages, world in chaos with terror, doubled the debt in 8 years, racism running wild in U.S., loss of many political seats for democrats, healthcare cost more than doubling yeah, Obama has taken care of the Koolaide drinkers like yourself. Record stock market is reaction to Trump being elected and companies staying in country a reaction to Trump's request, even before getting in office Trump is making a positive impact before actually taking over.

Yes a 250% increase in the market the last years is because of Trump. Trump paid Carrier 6 million to stsy for 750 jobs. Yeah, that is the reason for it all.

I betcha think he's gonna build that wall right?

$6 million over a decade to keep a half billion dollars worth of payroll in the US sounds pretty good to me. That's over $20 million in payroll taxes alone, not to mention the Americans that get to stay employed.

 

[qwesley]

You can't pay down the debt until; there is a surplus. Without any help from the other side he has taken 1.7 trillion down to 400 billion. Blaming Bush for 40% of the problem is laughable. Bush took a 200 billion surplus and turned it into a 1.7 trillion deficit.

Yes, unemployment under 5%, people begging for skilled workers. Compare that to 2009, yeah he really crapped the bed.

myopic
cherrypicked
dishonest
whorish

 

[qwesley]

Union perception is not helped by the history of links to mob activity in every major city in America. Plus we have have at least one relative that is a union guy that is lazy as **** and brags about it.

 

[ganner918_rivals60369]

Okay..... The 1% have their wealth....in the market. The rest have their wealth...tied up in their houses. The Fed kept interest rates low so the big money folks went to the market to get a return. The 99 percent are now watching their home prices (their wealth) grow slowly...though in the right direction.

Low interest rates drive home prices UP because they reduce the cost of buying a home.

 

[ktbug]

Yes a 250% increase in the market the last years is because of Trump. Trump paid Carrier 6 million to stsy for 750 jobs. Yeah, that is the reason for it all.

myopic
cherrypicked
dishonest
whorish

Cherrypicking actual numbers? When you can't defend, name call.