Roxana Proposal

[RB_RocketFan]

Now that all of the details and mock-ups are out for the Roxana proposal, I’m interested to see everyone’s opinion of it.

Are you in favor of the Roxana proposal?

Do you think the proposal will be adopted by the member schools?

Personally I am not in favor of the proposal as I don’t think the playoffs should be expanded and I don’t like the idea of districts and disbanding conferences.

I think the proposal has a good chance of being adopted by the member schools due to a strong desire to remedy drive for 5 and easing scheduling challenges.

Interested to hear people’s thoughts on this.

RBRocketFan

 

[Anon1754502667]

I think it is going to pass, however, I think there may be some pressure to adjust some of the 7A/8A brackets.

 

[4Afan]

I think it is going to pass, however, I think there may be some pressure to adjust some of the 7A/8A brackets.

I think it's 50/50 and I'm hoping it doesn't pass.

Keep in mind the proposed regions were done by those that made the proposal, not the IHSA, so they're not official.

 

[RB_RocketFan]

I

Keep in mind the proposed regions were done by those that made the proposal, not the IHSA, so they're not official.

That’s a good point.

 

[CSLfan]

Can you post a way to find the proposed regions? I know they've been released but I haven't had to time to look up what they are.

 

[Snetsrak61]

Can you post a way to find the proposed regions? I know they've been released but I haven't had to time to look up what they are.

Roxana High School - Shells Official Athletic Website

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Full site with info

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[Snetsrak61]

Looking at this website with details, they honestly they did a lot of smart things compared to the old district proposals, that were pretty sloppy and hasty. This has a real chance to pass I think.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Looking at this website with details, they honestly they did a lot of smart things compared to the old district proposals, that were pretty sloppy and hasty. This has a real chance to pass I think.

I respect the work put in and it certainly is better presented than the old district proposals. I think it certainly could pass, I would rather not see it but I don't have a vote.

 

[Snetsrak61]

I do understand the legitimate desire to do something about conference shuffling. I think theres a few lessons from the CCL schools, who know a thing or two about the conference shuffling issue as well. Yet only one private school (Walter Christian) is a co-sponsor.

In exchange for adding the CCL member schools to the regional exempt list (alongside Prep Bowl counterpart CPL) I'd be willing to give the Roxana proposal committee some additional tweaks.

 

[Snetsrak61]

I respect the work put in and it certainly is better presented than the old district proposals. I think it certainly could pass, I would rather not see it but I don't have a vote.

Yep, not my preferred outcome, but it's a metric ton better than districts was (not that it was a high bar to be better).


Schools opposed to this should be seriously thinking about what the football landscape looks like. With 4 self-scheduled games I think the current CCL is actually well positioned to pivot while staying a unified confederation (even today that's more what it is than a conference). Other conferences may want to look that way because I think they may be reality.

 

[OnVikings!]

Yep, not my preferred outcome, but it's a metric ton better than districts was (not that it was a high bar to be better).


Schools opposed to this should be seriously thinking about what the football landscape looks like. With 4 self-scheduled games I think the current CCL is actually well positioned to pivot while staying a unified confederation (even today that's more what it is than a conference). Other conferences may want to look that way because I think they may be reality.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say, CCL members only have two "self scheduled games" each year (weeks 1 & 2). Weeks 3-9 are all division games and crossovers.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Yep, not my preferred outcome, but it's a metric ton better than districts was (not that it was a high bar to be better).


Schools opposed to this should be seriously thinking about what the football landscape looks like. With 4 self-scheduled games I think the current CCL is actually well positioned to pivot while staying a unified confederation (even today that's more what it is than a conference). Other conferences may want to look that way because I think they may be reality.

I expect the CCL with want to stay unified even if that passes. If they are unified and some other type of IHSA proposals come down the road that might lead to a separation it would be easier IMO. Not trying to spin this conversation to separation but something I think could be in the back of CCL minds.

 

[jha618]

Looking at this website with details, they honestly they did a lot of smart things compared to the old district proposals, that were pretty sloppy and hasty. This has a real chance to pass I think.

To me this looks like a solution was created and then they went and looked for a problem. More time should be spent on fixing the current playoff system.

 

[Snetsrak61]

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say, CCL members only have two "self scheduled games" each year (weeks 1 & 2). Weeks 3-9 are all division games and crossovers.

It's 5 regional games and 4 self-scheduled.

So CCL teams could keep the 4 team pods. Then each team would have 1 OOC, 3 CCL, 5 Regional. No crossovers but you'd have the 1 OOC.

 

[johnndoe]

Could it pass now, before un-passing later, this time also?

 

[Edgytim]

It's much better looking compared to the last go around.....but again I don't think this passes

 

[Alexander33]

I don't know if it will pass but the proposal does seem to have one significant weakness. It only addresses two of the three significant factors that influence conference membership. The three factors are: 1) proximity, 2) size, and 3) competitiveness. There is a reason the Central Suburban North Conference exists. There is a reason the West Suburban Gold Conference exists. The same thing is true for the Southwest Prairie East Conference and the entire Upstate Eight Conference. The high schools in these conferences are generally not competitive with similarly sized schools in other conferences. Over time, they have grouped together so their student athletes can have a fulfilling experience competing against athletes from schools that are similarly situated in terms of competitiveness. If these schools are thrust into regions based solely on location and the size of the school, they may lose enough players over the course of time such that the entire football program gets dropped at some point.

I suppose if the schools find themselves in a six-team region, they will at least have four non-regional games that they can schedule themselves. That potentially gives them four games in which they could compete. If they are thrust into an eight-team region, good luck!!!

 

[Edgytim]

I don't know if it will pass but the proposal does seem to have one significant weakness. It only addresses two of the three significant factors that influence conference membership. The three factors are: 1) proximity, 2) size, and 3) competitiveness. There is a reason the Central Suburban North Conference exists. There is a reason the West Suburban Gold Conference exists. The same thing is true for the Southwest Prairie East Conference and the entire Upstate Eight Conference. The high schools in these conferences are generally not competitive with similarly sized schools in other conferences. Over time, they have grouped together so their student athletes can have a fulfilling experience competing against athletes from schools that are similarly situated in terms of competitiveness. If these schools are thrust into regions based solely on location and the size of the school, they may lose enough players over the course of time such that the entire football program gets dropped at some point.

I suppose if the schools find themselves in a six-team region, they will at least have four non-regional games that they can schedule themselves. That potentially gives them four games in which they could compete. If they are thrust into an eight-team region, good luck!!!

How does this ease scheduling? So scheduling 4 non con games in the state as opposed to say 1-2 is easier?

 

[Comet4Life]

How does this ease scheduling? So scheduling 4 non con games in the state as opposed to say 1-2 is easier?

Its easier when the rest of the teams in the state are also looking for the exact same weeks. The pool of potential opponents will be much larger than what it is now.

 

[jha618]

I don't know if it will pass but the proposal does seem to have one significant weakness. It only addresses two of the three significant factors that influence conference membership. The three factors are: 1) proximity, 2) size, and 3) competitiveness. There is a reason the Central Suburban North Conference exists. There is a reason the West Suburban Gold Conference exists. The same thing is true for the Southwest Prairie East Conference and the entire Upstate Eight Conference. The high schools in these conferences are generally not competitive with similarly sized schools in other conferences. Over time, they have grouped together so their student athletes can have a fulfilling experience competing against athletes from schools that are similarly situated in terms of competitiveness. If these schools are thrust into regions based solely on location and the size of the school, they may lose enough players over the course of time such that the entire football program gets dropped at some point.

I suppose if the schools find themselves in a six-team region, they will at least have four non-regional games that they can schedule themselves. That potentially gives them four games in which they could compete. If they are thrust into an eight-team region, good luck!!!

I dont know if I have seen anyone be able to articulate an example of schools or conferences that are at an extreme disadvantage currently that will see a significant benefit from the new proposal.

 

[RickBooth]

How does this ease scheduling? So scheduling 4 non con games in the state as opposed to say 1-2 is easier?

It's easier because all schools will share open weeks together. It's so hard for schools to find non-con games in weeks 3-9 currently.

 

[jha618]

Its easier when the rest of the teams in the state are also looking for the exact same weeks. The pool of potential opponents will be much larger than what it is now.

 

[RickBooth]

I dont know if I have seen anyone be able to articulate an example of schools or conferences that are at an extreme disadvantage currently that will see a significant benefit from the new proposal.

The SWSC and DVC has some good examples.

 

[jha618]

The SWSC and DVC has some good examples.

Which would be what?

 

[RickBooth]

The SWSC is a great example of how the current structure has hurt conferences. Joliet Central, Joliet West, Thornwood, Thornridge, and Bolingbrook all leaving. I think Stagg would be happy to have more autonomy over scheduling fairer opponents. Or the 7A/6A Red schools not having to play schools with enrollments of 3,637 + 2,773 + 2,676 + 2,657. I have less knowledge of the DVC history, but I know they have struggled mightly to find mid/late season non-con games or find other teams to join the conference. I'm sure DeKalb would welcome this proposal with open arms. Same with Metea.

 

[4Afan]

How does this ease scheduling? So scheduling 4 non con games in the state as opposed to say 1-2 is easier?

Those making the proposal also claim teams will be more willing to schedule tougher games without fear of losing since they'll only need 3 wins instead of 5 to make the playoffs.

I don't buy that though. Teams will schedule rivals from old conferences for 2-3 games and still go looking for winnable games.

 

[jha618]

The SWSC is a great example of how the current structure has hurt conferences. Joliet Central, Joliet West, Thornwood, Thornridge, and Bolingbrook all leaving. I think Stagg would be happy to have more autonomy over scheduling fairer opponents. Or the 7A/6A Red schools not having to play schools with enrollments of 3,637 + 2,773 + 2,676 + 2,657. I have less knowledge of the DVC history, but I know they have struggled mightly to find mid/late season non-con games or find other teams to join the conference. I'm sure DeKalb would welcome this proposal with open arms. Same with Metea.

There is only one SWSC Red 6a school which is Bradley-Bourbonnais and they do just fine. The bigger schools in that conf usually finish at the bottom. I also dont think there is anything wrong with a 7a school playing an 8a school in conf. Even with the new proposal you will have school with previous 8a and 7a classification playing each other.

Stagg has twice as many kids as Oak Forest and lost 42-0. Unfortunately I dont think you are going to find any proposal or accomodations that will make Stagg competitive. They have the ability to schedule multiple open weeks now and they have generally been uncompetitive in those games.

 

[Cross Bones]

There is only one SWSC Red 6a school which is Bradley-Bourbonnais and they do just fine. The bigger schools in that conf usually finish at the bottom. I also dont think there is anything wrong with a 7a school playing an 8a school in conf. Even with the new proposal you will have school with previous 8a and 7a classification playing each other.

Stagg has twice as many kids as Oak Forest and lost 42-0. Unfortunately I dont think you are going to find any proposal or accomodations that will make Stagg competitive. They have the ability to schedule multiple open weeks now and they have generally been uncompetitive in those games.

Unless Joe Ganz is walking through that door its gonna be tough sledding for Stagg

 

[RickBooth]

There is only one SWSC Red 6a school which is Bradley-Bourbonnais and they do just fine. The bigger schools in that conf usually finish at the bottom. I also dont think there is anything wrong with a 7a school playing an 8a school in conf. Even with the new proposal you will have school with previous 8a and 7a classification playing each other.

Stagg has twice as many kids as Oak Forest and lost 42-0. Unfortunately I dont think you are going to find any proposal or accomodations that will make Stagg competitive. They have the ability to schedule multiple open weeks now and they have generally been uncompetitive in those games.

LWE, HF, Lockport, and Sandburg are all 8A playoff teams this season, with two of them still alive in the quarterfinals.

No comment on how the conference has lost five teams in the past 10 years? The fact that DeKalb and Waubonsie Valley traveled to Bradley Bourbonnais this season for a CONFERENCE GAME tells you all you need to know about how the current system is impacting conferences.

 

[johnndoe]

The mock-up 7A regional with Oak Lawn, Richards, Reavis & Shepard along with Rice, Marist, St. L. & Rita looks "interesting." That one really popped. How about some others noticed by posters?

 

[jha618]

LWE, HF, Lockport, and Sandburg are all 8A playoff teams this season, with two of them still alive in the quarterfinals.

No comment on how the conference has lost five teams in the past 10 years? The fact that DeKalb and Waubonsie Valley traveled to Bradley Bourbonnais this season for a CONFERENCE GAME tells you all you need to know about how the current system is impacting conferences.

With the current proposal 4 SWC schools in region 7 will have to travel 2.5hrs to Normal and Quincy which is atleast an hour further than Dekalb to BB (1.5hr). 4 SWC schools in region 6 will have a similar 2.5hr trip to Pekin. They will all have another 1.5hr trip to Chatham Glenwood. So what has been gained?

Conferences lose teams all the time and the proposal isn't about protecting conferences. Have any of those teams failed to play a full 9 game season in the previous 10 years?

I was referring to the SWSC-Red when mentioning the larger schools being at the bottom of that conference.

 

[FootballDad1979]

They put a lot of time and effort into it and I applaud them for that.

1. Not everyone should make the playoffs. Or even teams with a record as poor as 3-6.
2. Some regionals make sense and some do not. Check out Maine Souths regional in 7A.
3. This will not pass. I have not spoken with an AD or coach in the North Suburbs that wants this.
4. Everyone in the state should in a conference. If a school cannot find a conference then the IHSA Board of Directors should step up and place them in a conference.
5. I have heard where schools are voted out of conferences? That should not be allowed without IHSA Board of Directors approval.
6. If a school cannot find a game they should not have to forfeit, as long as they show that they communicated with schools and were denied a game.
7. In the Regionals, CPS is there own entitiy? How is that fair? Is that what they want?

In summary I would like to put more of this on the IHSA (which I know people will laugh at).

 

[SiuCubFan8]

In summary I would like to put more of this on the IHSA (which I know people will laugh at).

I'll take out my thoughts on IHSA BUT they don't want more of it put on them though.

 

[4Afan]

They put a lot of time and effort into it and I applaud them for that.

1. Not everyone should make the playoffs. Or even teams with a record as poor as 3-6.
2. Some regionals make sense and some do not. Check out Maine Souths regional in 7A.
3. This will not pass. I have not spoken with an AD or coach in the North Suburbs that wants this.
4. Everyone in the state should in a conference. If a school cannot find a conference then the IHSA Board of Directors should step up and place them in a conference.
5. I have heard where schools are voted out of conferences? That should not be allowed without IHSA Board of Directors approval.
6. If a school cannot find a game they should not have to forfeit, as long as they show that they communicated with schools and were denied a game.
7. In the Regionals, CPS is there own entitiy? How is that fair? Is that what they want?

In summary I would like to put more of this on the IHSA (which I know people will laugh at).

3. How many have you talked to and are they the ones casting the vote for their school? Wouldn't be the first time a coach and AD had opposing views. Also, with the CPS schools accounting for 80 votes, if they all vote for this it will go a long way in it passing.

4. What if a school is independent voluntarily? People don't want the IHSA determining districts, why would they be good at placing teams in a conference.

5. Why not? If a school cannot compete or chooses not to follow conference bi laws why shouldn't the conference be allowed to take action?

6. This isn't a thing. If a school can't find a game they are not forced to forfeit. Look at Loyola this year, they didn't have a week 2 game, but didn't have to forfeit.

7. Yes, that's what they want.

 

[Snetsrak61]

How does this ease scheduling? So scheduling 4 non con games in the state as opposed to say 1-2 is easier?

I think that's a fair question and on the whole scheduling will be tougher due to the sheer volume of weeks 1-4 that need to be scheduled by ADs whereas today most schedule only 2 or 3.

I think it minimizes the really bad scheduling downsides like when a team loses a conference and has to schedule a 9 game slate. Or a conference that has to go odd number and one school each week is in a scramble (although I don't know if ti's proposal specifies how to handle it if the number of teams is odd). But certainly from a cumulative and kind of utilitarian approach, I do think it is a net "harder scheduling" outcome.

I think the IHSA ultimately needs a true multi division model though and not just multiple class. Create a district class, and an open class, and a public only class and let schools opt into the format that fits them best (with re-enrollment reset very 4ish years). Each class can still be divided into S/M/L enrollments from there. There seems to be enough desire for change but also nothing near a majority over what change should be to get everyone on board.

 

[Edgytim]

Unless Joe Ganz is walking through that door its gonna be tough sledding for Stagg

Thats my guy!!!!!

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[SouthofI80Fan]

Those making the proposal also claim teams will be more willing to schedule tougher games without fear of losing since they'll only need 3 wins instead of 5 to make the playoffs.

I don't buy that though. Teams will schedule rivals from old conferences for 2-3 games and still go looking for winnable games.

Exactly.

What will happen is the lower and mid-tier teams will schedule each other and the top-tier teams will play each other. When the playoffs start the low and mid-tier team will be running clocked by a team with more losses and they will wonder why they still can't beat them.

I think this will cause the divide between good and bad even further than it is right now.

If you want more teams to get it just expand the damn thing and make it through "Drive for 4" rather than the "Drive for 5."

No need to blow the whole thing up because a few schools have issues scheduling so that every school can have issues scheduling.

 

[akz68]

There is only one SWSC Red 6a school which is Bradley-Bourbonnais and they do just fine. The bigger schools in that conf usually finish at the bottom. I also dont think there is anything wrong with a 7a school playing an 8a school in conf. Even with the new proposal you will have school with previous 8a and 7a classification playing each other.

Stagg has twice as many kids as Oak Forest and lost 42-0. Unfortunately I dont think you are going to find any proposal or accomodations that will make Stagg competitive. They have the ability to schedule multiple open weeks now and they have generally been uncompetitive in those games.

Prior to this season Stagg was 8-0 in open games and 0-19 in SWSC-Southwest Valley games the previous 3 seasons. The open games aren’t the problem. Put Stagg in the SSC or the Southland and they’d compete for a playoff birth many years.

This proposal is interesting in that it has the flex bands which could have been more properly utilized to group teams in a way that kept conferences more together and kept better competitive balance.

Also no idea since the CPL was excluded why the CCL-ESCC wouldn’t be as well since they will want no part of this. Could have avoided 24 additional no votes by doing that.

Better attempt than other models, but still has some major flaws.

 

[4Afan]

Also no idea since the CPL was excluded why the CCL-ESCC wouldn’t be as well since they will want no part of this. Could have avoided 24 additional no votes by doing that.

Right, because the competitiveness of the CPL is right on par with the CCL.

 

[mc140]

Why are people so sure this even makes the ballot?