Russell has thrown 4 interceptions in less than 3 Quarters...
- Thread starter Coach34
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yet you seem to think MSU should be running more and throwing less.
Yet you predicted 30 TD's from a QB who has shown he can't hit the broad side of a barn. If you really thought Relf would throw for 30 TD's, you can't be surprised at the number of pass plays.
Its pretty obvious that you under estimated the impact Dixon had on this team. As someone said the other day, he created a false sense of security for many fans in regards to the offensive line.</p>
Yet you predicted 30 TD's from a QB who has shown he can't hit the broad side of a barn. If you really thought Relf would throw for 30 TD's, you can't be surprised at the number of pass plays.
Its pretty obvious that you under estimated the impact Dixon had on this team. As someone said the other day, he created a false sense of security for many fans in regards to the offensive line.</p>
against Memphis. Has any team in history had success playing 2 QB's like this?
I think Mullen needs to go with Relf the whole way and the gameplan needs to prepared accordingly. I would also go with Ballard as the primary RB with Perkins providing a change of pace.
Other personnel changes: Langston to kick returner. I would go with either Banks or Thames asa 5th DBand run a 4-2-5 on defense. And we may have to start squib kicking our kickoffs.
I think Mullen needs to go with Relf the whole way and the gameplan needs to prepared accordingly. I would also go with Ballard as the primary RB with Perkins providing a change of pace.
Other personnel changes: Langston to kick returner. I would go with either Banks or Thames asa 5th DBand run a 4-2-5 on defense. And we may have to start squib kicking our kickoffs.
Russell has made some good throws as well and I can at least see potential in Russell. He's only played in 3 college games ever. Relf couldn't beat out a midget last year and can't clearly beat our Russell, the freshman. I hoped Relf would come in and look like a poor man's Cam Newton. He just looks poor. His 3 step drop on pass plays takes seemingly 20 seconds leading to sack/interception. He can run the ball very well but he rarely hands off on the read option so defenses just key on him. He's had a few good option pitch plays but ends up getting KO'd when he pitches. He'll keep getting knocked silly like he did Saturday.
If we lose to Georgia I hope Mullen just benches Relf and we coach up Russell for the future. I just don't see Relf ever being anything more than what he is now. If Russell doesn't get demonstrably better than recruit more qb's and we can also see what Mini Favre has next year.
If we lose to Georgia I hope Mullen just benches Relf and we coach up Russell for the future. I just don't see Relf ever being anything more than what he is now. If Russell doesn't get demonstrably better than recruit more qb's and we can also see what Mini Favre has next year.
were just bad decisions. He got rocked on 2 of the 4. Like I said, you would rather Russell fail than he do well.
Right now, Relf and Russell to me is a toss up. I do think Relf gives us the best opportunity to win if we go back to what we do. Hell, I thought Russell ran the ball pretty well on the option.
Right now, Relf and Russell to me is a toss up. I do think Relf gives us the best opportunity to win if we go back to what we do. Hell, I thought Russell ran the ball pretty well on the option.
but I thought the stat line showed y'all ran it 44 times and passed it 18 times. Is that wrong? If it's right, that seems like an extremely run heavy offense. Is it that they're running a lot, but passing in the wrong situations? Didn't see the game but that run/pass ratio seemed at odds with the claims made here.
UF with Tebow and that other kid. But yeah, you don't see it much. I think Mullen is just trying to switchit up tokeep the opposition off balance. It's not working because the QB's are either not great passers (Relf) or are inexperienced (Russell). So it comes off astrying to be too cute with the playcalling. I don't think anyone would disagree with your assessmentafter the results to date -- play the more experienced guy, and play to his strengths.Columbus Dawg said:
It was 3rd and long and we called a backside screen to Perkins. It would have worked to perfection too, LSU blitzed and every one of their DL rushed up field.
Where things went wrong was that one of our RBs (either Elliot or Ballard) completely wiffed at an LSU LB (Shepard I believe). If he even slightly chipps Shepard, the play would have gone for 40, maybe even a TD.
Where things went wrong was that one of our RBs (either Elliot or Ballard) completely wiffed at an LSU LB (Shepard I believe). If he even slightly chipps Shepard, the play would have gone for 40, maybe even a TD.
Coach34 said:
I at least feel like Tyler can make a play throwing the ball every now and then. Plus, is it really that big of a shock that our passing QB has more INT's than our running QB?
The fact is, we're more multidimensional with Tyler in the game because we can both run and pass. With Relf, it's pretty much run. Problem is, our o-line isn't worth a ****, and because of that we'll probably have to run the rest of the year, like we do every year, and teams will put 15 in the box, and yada, yada, yada. GO STATE! And even if we do call pass plays that actually do fit Relf, we're still pretty limited because he can't throw downfield. It would be nice if our o-line would actually decide to block for BOTH Relf and Russell for once this year, to.
Also, I can't really fault Tyler on the INT where the DE for LSU just happened to be in the right place at the right time. I mean, **** happens at LSU.
Plus, like I said, I think Dan is going to stay with Relf. Tyler didn't come into the game until Relf got his bell rung, and at that point Tyler stayed in the game the rest of the way, which was a reasonable thing to do instead of leaving Relf out there to get knocked out again in a game where they clearly weren't going to call any helmet to helmet shots for whatever reason, and besides that fact it wouldn't be worth putting Relf out there to end his year and maybe career at that point.
Indndawg said:
we will see Tyler take over as the starter and then we might see Relf do some things like line up as a WR/TE or even yes, at RB as well as QB. See Randall Cobb at UK.
It was Relf for a couple of series and then Tyler for a couple of series. That has been proven over and over to not work. Florida would use Leak and Tebow on the same drive based on down and distance and used Tebow for mostly short yardage with Leak taking most of the snaps.
because what we are doing is nothing like that. Tebow just came in on short yardage situations. Relf and Russell are getting their own series multiple times per game.
I'm pointing out the simple stat that Russell in about 3 quarters of SEC football has thrown 4 INT's- thats a fact. And I've seen nothing from him that makes me believe that it will get any better. All I heard on this board was how bad Jarrett Lee was at LSU his RS Freshman year because he kept throwing picks- I think Russell would throw them at a higher rate because we cant protect nor do we have the WR's that LSU had for him to throw the 18 TD's he threw
Think about it- Georgia, Fla, Bama- thats 12 more INT's right there at least...are you wanting to insert Russell in the line-up now as the starter and let him go ahead and throw his 20 interceptions this season? Every team we play now is going to blitz the holy hell out of him
I want us to settle on one of them and stick with it. This playing both is a waste of our season.
Think about it- Georgia, Fla, Bama- thats 12 more INT's right there at least...are you wanting to insert Russell in the line-up now as the starter and let him go ahead and throw his 20 interceptions this season? Every team we play now is going to blitz the holy hell out of him
I want us to settle on one of them and stick with it. This playing both is a waste of our season.
Todd4State said:
we become extremely one dimensional with Tyler in the game. He ran the triple in the 2nd half for 3 yards where Ralph gets 10-12 normally when he cuts it up. We struggled to run in Tyler's series after the TD when they started bringing pressure
I don't know where you got your Tyler Russell only had three yards off of the option. The ESPN play by play told me he had 9 yards off of two carries. I don't know who is right or wrong there. Doesn't really matter.
With Relf in at QB, we had 108 yards of rushing as a team- that includes Relf's totals. With Russell we were able to get 58 yards of rushing, which is not surprising considering the strengths of the two. (I did the totals in my head, so I might have McClured a yard or two.) But Russell was able to get 81 yards of passing vs Relf's 35. So, we ended up with Relf with 143 yards of total offense in slightly more playing time and Russell with 139 yards of total offense as a team in slightly less time. And also, when Russell was in, we were behind meaning that we had to throw it more. So, no it's not really easier to run the ball with Relf vs Russell in there. We do get more yards rushing because we run more with Relf (no ****). On top of that, we're clearly less one dimensional with Tyler in because there is a MUCH larger discrepancy between our passing yardage and rushing yardage with Relf at QB.
With Relf in at QB, we had 108 yards of rushing as a team- that includes Relf's totals. With Russell we were able to get 58 yards of rushing, which is not surprising considering the strengths of the two. (I did the totals in my head, so I might have McClured a yard or two.) But Russell was able to get 81 yards of passing vs Relf's 35. So, we ended up with Relf with 143 yards of total offense in slightly more playing time and Russell with 139 yards of total offense as a team in slightly less time. And also, when Russell was in, we were behind meaning that we had to throw it more. So, no it's not really easier to run the ball with Relf vs Russell in there. We do get more yards rushing because we run more with Relf (no ****). On top of that, we're clearly less one dimensional with Tyler in because there is a MUCH larger discrepancy between our passing yardage and rushing yardage with Relf at QB.
on the drive where Relf got hurt? It was a good mix of run and pass.
hahahahaha Coach, your point is that Russell makes us more one dimensional? Surely you worded that wrong, because Russell has a higher QB rating, efficiency, more passing yards, and more passing TDs.
Surely you meant our offense is less effective without Relf's running threat, because it's OBVIOUSLY not more one dimensional.
hahahahaha Coach, your point is that Russell makes us more one dimensional? Surely you worded that wrong, because Russell has a higher QB rating, efficiency, more passing yards, and more passing TDs.
Surely you meant our offense is less effective without Relf's running threat, because it's OBVIOUSLY not more one dimensional.
In the O we have evolved into, the other teams D must have a fear of the QB running the ball, Relf has earned that, Russell ...no not yet.
Consequently...when Relf is in, they know they have to cover the pass, and a running back, and Relf running..
When Russell is in, they have to cover the pass, and a running back....Russell has to earn their respect running in this O, or it won't work,
not with the player we now have.</p>
Consequently...when Relf is in, they know they have to cover the pass, and a running back, and Relf running..
When Russell is in, they have to cover the pass, and a running back....Russell has to earn their respect running in this O, or it won't work,
not with the player we now have.</p>
and started bringing the heat- Russell was 3-8 for 45 yards and 3 picks...and <span style="text-decoration:underline">we had 15 carries for 33 yards</span>- and 14 of those were gained on the last play of the game...Tyler's rush for 3 yards was on the series after the TD when he ran the triple to the left side...
So once LSU decided to defend him a certain way, 5 possessions- 3-8- 45 yards and 3 INT's, 33 yards rushing on 15 carries- so yes, the numbers do show it is harder to run the ball with him at QB
So once LSU decided to defend him a certain way, 5 possessions- 3-8- 45 yards and 3 INT's, 33 yards rushing on 15 carries- so yes, the numbers do show it is harder to run the ball with him at QB
One thing to note here is that LSU decided to blitz the ever living hell at a RF QB, and it worked......TR's interceptions werent bad decisions, there were a direct result of great defensive coaching on LSU's part.....so, note here, all the future opponents have this game film, and you can bet your sweet ***, they will be coached with 17 comes in, bring the house.....
and that, is what worries me....
and that, is what worries me....
Coach34 said:
Yes, let's not give Tyler any credit whatsoever for that. Somehow that doesn't count because LSU didn't know what to expect? Do you think we sent them film with Tyler Russell's plays edited out?
That doesn't prove that it's easier or harder to run the ball with Tyler at all. It proves that our coaches didn't adjust to what LSU did. Surely our brilliant offensive coaches can come up with something to beat an all out blitz.
And again, we were behind. We HAD to pass. Running the ball would have worked against us and any slim hope we had at making a comeback.
what has he done when the real pressure is on?
Heck, it's not even really Russell, it's what our team is capable of doing.
We, at this time need a QB that can pass, and run.
Heck, it's not even really Russell, it's what our team is capable of doing.
We, at this time need a QB that can pass, and run.
The problem is our coaches are not putting our players in a position to be successful. Our team is built to be a read option offense with short, high-percentage passes and the occasional deep ball off of play action. We may be running a good bit by the stats, but we aren't running what we should be running. We aren't doing much zone read, we aren't getting our RBs to the edge (particularly Perkins), and we are placing too much on our weakest link - WRs and passing downfield.
The coaches are at fault. We do not have a WR corp built for deep passes, nor do we have the QB to do that now. Is it their fault we have thrown as many picks as we have? I say no. We all know Relf is suspect with accuracy. Why we ask him to stand in the pocket and launch 30 yard passes on a regular basis is beyond me. We all know Tyler lacks experience, why should be act surprised when he makes a suspect decision? Our WRs are smallish and short, yet our illustrious coach expect them to compete with future NFL players for passes. That's just stupid. We have fast players that are small, but rarely give them the ball in space where they can make a play. We have a QB built perfectly for the zone read, he knows how to run it, and yet we don't run that play. Dumb. We have a speedy RB but never get him outside with the ball. We don't give it to any of our RBs enough to see what they actually have and get them in a rhythm.
It's not so much the run/pass ratio. It is the plays we are running, the total lack of identity, and the absolute refusal to do things our talent is set up for that aggravates people like me. I'm not upset about losing to LSU. I'm upset that we don't have a clue on offense. For an offensive coach, that is inexcusable. Line up, run the zone read with Perkins, throw short passes to give our WRs the ball in space, and use that to set up the occasional shot down the field.
It's not so much the run/pass ratio. It is the plays we are running, the total lack of identity, and the absolute refusal to do things our talent is set up for that aggravates people like me. I'm not upset about losing to LSU. I'm upset that we don't have a clue on offense. For an offensive coach, that is inexcusable. Line up, run the zone read with Perkins, throw short passes to give our WRs the ball in space, and use that to set up the occasional shot down the field.
but it doesn't mean squat. Mullen will play who he sees fit. More than likely, it's gonna be both of them unless one really impresses the coach. And I don't mean C34.
we played to our strengths last year on offense. Why did we stop?
There's no rational explanation for it.
I think Matt Wyatt has a better game plan for us than what our coaches have been doing. And at this point, there's no reason to not do what Wyatt is saying- which is:
1. Spread option (I'm assuming zone read option)
2. Triple option from under the center.
3. Play action out of the gun.
4. "Three step drop" passes out of the gun- ie short quick passes such as a slant.
5. Sprint out throws.
The only thing I would add to that would be an occasional bubble screen. Maybe we should get rid of Koenning and hire Wyatt.
There's no rational explanation for it.
I think Matt Wyatt has a better game plan for us than what our coaches have been doing. And at this point, there's no reason to not do what Wyatt is saying- which is:
1. Spread option (I'm assuming zone read option)
2. Triple option from under the center.
3. Play action out of the gun.
4. "Three step drop" passes out of the gun- ie short quick passes such as a slant.
5. Sprint out throws.
The only thing I would add to that would be an occasional bubble screen. Maybe we should get rid of Koenning and hire Wyatt.
Dont know what game you watched Saturday, I watched MSU v LSU. Relf had a great game against UM last year and what else? One game. Mullen got this far without calling you for advice, I wouldnt wait by the phone. Tyler had a great drive and then got no help from the oline and backs with LSU's pressure. It was his third college game and first on the road playing in Tiger Stadium against LSU in their home openeer, sure Coach34 would have aced it. Tyler will get better and better each game.
MSU (not unlike LSU), doesn't have a quarterback... T Russell is the closest thing goin' on either team,.... for now.
a lot of posters want Ballard to get Elliot's carries, and don't like how Perkins is being used. Severalposters also want Mullen to run the zone read more. </p>
You all will not face a better pass rush the rest of the season. I know that Arkansas has one more sack than LSU so far, but it has been against lesser talented teams. LSU has played North Carolina and two SEC teams. So if Russell's issues are related to pressure, then the LSU game should be a low point. I think the kid can play.
ETA: After posting this I realized how this may have come across as disingenuous, seeing as how Relf almost single-handily kicked the **** out of us. But it wasn't meant that way. Russell will be damn good in time.
ETA: After posting this I realized how this may have come across as disingenuous, seeing as how Relf almost single-handily kicked the **** out of us. But it wasn't meant that way. Russell will be damn good in time.