SEC basketball is so damn bad
- Thread starter Coach34
- Start date
It's really hard to believe now that back in the 1990s the SEC was as good as any conference in the country in basketball. I'm still not sure how or why it has fallen so far. I know nobody really cares about basketball, but the SEC dominates in plenty of sports no one cares about.
I agree Pat. I remember the SEC getting 6+ teams into the tournament every year. It is incredibly hard for me to understand the drop off. Is the conference bad because we don't care? Or do we not care because the conference is bad?
The ridiculous part is that we've got programs that are very serious about basketball spending big money, hiring bigtime coaches, and recruiting extremely well. Why isn't that translating to the court more effectively? SEC has been incredibly top heavy for awhile now...
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Nobody really cares? I hardly think that's the case. Maybe YOU don't care, but that's not everybody.
This is true to some extent. All these 6'3-6'4 WR's and 6'5 DE's and TE's used to be basketball guys all the way- now they are growing up playing WR and TE and sticking with football
Dayton cares too. As they were beating Bama last night in T-Town, the announcers talked about how Dayton is 7-0 vs the SEC West the last few years
Compared to football, nobody really cares about basketball. Even in the ACC, which is one of the strongest and most historical basketball leagues in the country, TV viewership and attendance for football is over twice what it is for basketball and that's with basketball having over twice as many games as football. So the average ACC football game is seen by well over 4 times as many people as the average ACC basketball game. Same story for the Big 10, but even more slanted toward football. Nobody cares about basketball is an overstatement, but football is king everywhere. And in the SEC, basketball takes an even bigger backseat to football then the rest of the country. When you see Alabama drawing 100K+ for football and barely 10K for basketball if that, it's not that hard to see what they care about. And the story is the same at virtually every other SEC school.
You are right, it isn't a new phenomenon. Its been obvious for a long time and aGAIN, I blame the AAU culture. Its like Bob Knight said years ago, when these AAU kids are playing 3 or 4 games a day in a tournament, they don't care if they win or lose. They're just there to play. And so many of them don't find their way back to their local HS where winning still matters. The challenge for coaches today is to take players out of their culture and get them to play in a system that is conducive to winning - and those coaches are few and far between. Donovan can do it. Coach K & Pittino obviously. Williams, Izzo Self, Crean, Boeheim, Calhoun - when he was still in it. Pearl had a knack. Calipari is getting better at it. Howland's recent troubles at UCLA have proven how difficult it is. Others will obviously emerge, but it is tough to do.
Couple that with the SEC style of play that caters to athletes trying to play basketball, and it can be tough to watch.
I've been going to the SECT for longer than I care to admit. But last year as I was in the NOA watching LSU and play somebody, one of the guys in our group commented how awful the play was. That's when I decided to take a hiatus, so I booked a trip to the BET. It HAS to be more interesting.
The more games being played and the more teams playing them hurts basketball viewership. Just last night there was atleast 10 different basketball games on tv. How bad would it hurt the viewership of the ESPN Thursday night football game if there were 10 other football games on tv that night too?
Could the difference in attendance have anything to do with the size of the venue? But I digress.
No question football is the big kahuna - as you say - nationwide. Basketball ain't driving the re-alignment boat. And while I think - like many in the coaching profession do - that a true test of a basketball coach should be measured over the course of a season, the tournament has pretty much made the regular season a time-killing exercise for fans. Whereas in college football, the regular season still means everything. Lets hope that doesn't change when they go to a playoff.
Ok, so compared to football, no one cares. That's a vastly different statement than the blanket no one cares that was thrown out there at first. Compared to football in the SEC, no one cares about most anything.
Don't think TV exposure isn't hurting college football attendance. Obviously the big games still sell out, but there were a lot of empty seats in stadiums you wouldn't expect it this year.
I think I agree with Coach AND Blue here.
Outside of what Cal cherry picks from around the country, we definitely don't see the caliber of player in the SEC now that we used to. It's become a league of guys running and jumping and being athletic while not having a good handle on the fundamentals and common basketball sense. And let's be honest - the SEC has not been overrun with great coaches. Stansbury, Brady, Gottfried, Ellis, Kennedy, Barnes, Pelphrey, Van Breda Koff, Jirsa, Odom, Hobbs, O'Neill.....that's just off the cuff - and none of those guys are game changers. Cal gets great players to play hard because if they don't he will bench them, so he's got that going for him. Donovan has cut plenty of corners in recruiting to get talent to Florida and it paid off with the Horford/Noah/Brewer years. He's got the rolling again now and I think he might doing a better job now than he did with those championship years.
Blue, the BET is must see TV every year. Even the opening day games are usually great, and something memorable always happens there. I think is has a lot to do with MSG. Players in the northeast grow up wanting to play there so when they get their shot, they give it their all. And ESPN's production of the BET is top notch.
Outside of what Cal cherry picks from around the country, we definitely don't see the caliber of player in the SEC now that we used to. It's become a league of guys running and jumping and being athletic while not having a good handle on the fundamentals and common basketball sense. And let's be honest - the SEC has not been overrun with great coaches. Stansbury, Brady, Gottfried, Ellis, Kennedy, Barnes, Pelphrey, Van Breda Koff, Jirsa, Odom, Hobbs, O'Neill.....that's just off the cuff - and none of those guys are game changers. Cal gets great players to play hard because if they don't he will bench them, so he's got that going for him. Donovan has cut plenty of corners in recruiting to get talent to Florida and it paid off with the Horford/Noah/Brewer years. He's got the rolling again now and I think he might doing a better job now than he did with those championship years.
Blue, the BET is must see TV every year. Even the opening day games are usually great, and something memorable always happens there. I think is has a lot to do with MSG. Players in the northeast grow up wanting to play there so when they get their shot, they give it their all. And ESPN's production of the BET is top notch.
Which is really what I meant by that statement to begin with. I was referring to the SEC when I said nobody cares about basketball since that's the only conference we were discussing. And it is a fact that almost nobody in the SEC really cares about basketball much at all. Several schools care about baseball more than they do about basketball.
How is the NBA to blame for crappy SEC basketball?
Are the side effects of your misguided perception of NBA basketball specific to the SEC?
I do think our infatuation with football, which can run year long now with 7on7 and spring stuff, is partly to blame. Our local basketball talent pool (read: likely recruits) isn't getting developed. AAU was mentioned by Blue and I partly agree. Although, I don't think that is conference specific either. It has contributed to a general decline in college basketball for years now.
Are the side effects of your misguided perception of NBA basketball specific to the SEC?
I do think our infatuation with football, which can run year long now with 7on7 and spring stuff, is partly to blame. Our local basketball talent pool (read: likely recruits) isn't getting developed. AAU was mentioned by Blue and I partly agree. Although, I don't think that is conference specific either. It has contributed to a general decline in college basketball for years now.
If you look at realtimerpi even today...
it projects us out to 13 wins for the season right now. That's probably way optimistic but 10-11 should be doable.
I know that not all SEC players are from the south but that being said, I think it's due to the quality of basketball at most high schools in the south. Nobody is teaching the game here anymore and a lot of these other conferences play a much more sophisticated level of ball. Now don't get me wrong, almost no one plays a very complicated game, but the level of basketball IQ in the SEC is one of the lowest in the country.
Good point about AAU ball not being conference specific and I agree about your comment concerning the general decline of college basketball although I would like to learn more about any differences between AAU ball in the South and other regions. Getting kids coming through the AAU culture to buy in to a winning culture is a lot like coaching in the NBA. X's and 0's are X's and 0's when you get to college and the pros. There aren't any magic formulas out there. aGAIN, the trick is, getting 10-12 guys to buy into winning games which leads to winning championships.
And I - like you - fail to see a real negative impact from the NBA. I'm not sure of the purpose of the one-and-done rule, but if anything, its put kids in the college game that never would have been there before. And there is always the argument that people try and make that today's kids don't have the "fundamentals" because they are trying to emulate the guys in the NBA. I never bought that either, because the NBA is filled with the best shooters, best passers, best rebounders, best defenders, best at working off the ball, best at you name it - in the world.
I'm looking forward to it. And the fact that UofL, SU, Pitt, ND (and I'm sure I missed someone) are leaving should had some spice to the Garden.
Big 10 in Indy is next.