Should colleges give preferential treatment to athletes?

[Morrischiano2]

Given the SC ruling on affirmative action (I DONT WANT TO DISCUSS THAT HERE), there is a line of thinking that giving preferences to ANY classification (athletic recruit, legacy) of students should not be considered in the admissions process.

So, should giving preferences to athletes at the expense of non-athletes be allowed?

Look at an excellent academic school like Duke, with a population of about 6000. 10% of admissions go to athletes. So if you want to go to Duke and you’re not an elite athlete, it’s even harder to get into. Duke has a 6% acceptance rate.

This is less of an issue at a school like RU which has a 60% acceptance rate but still holds at smaller elite schools that compete at D1 (Wake Forest, Duke, Stanford, etc)

 

[mdk02]

So in light of colleges being pressured NOT to require standardized test scores, if there are no preferences for any classification will there be any determinate besides grades at their school? I see massive grade inflation if that happened as well as use of AI for any required written essay.

 

[superfan01]

Another stir the pot Zzzzz post by @Morrischiano

 

[Morrischiano2]

Another stir the pot Zzzzz post by @Morrischiano

Not really. It’s a valid question and argument that can affect college athletics admissions.

 

[NorthernKnight_rivals]

Not really. It’s a valid question and argument that can affect college athletics admissions.

It’s not a valid question and argument.

 

[jakeknight]

In the SC decision they still left room to evaluate applicants based on their own "unique circumstances" this provides a very large window for all kinds of circumstances, this could include many different catagories, athletes, disadvantaged applicants, legacies, just to name a few.
Biden's statement that disadvantaged/ minority students had to meet normal admission standards to be admitted is universally incorrect (as it is for all special interest groups athletes, legacies, talented musicians, and performers, and other uniquely talented individual). I would expect most universities to quickly adapt and adjust to the decision. Many universities have developed programs for specific groups with unique guidelines. Just an opinion but I don't think this will change a whole lot other than terminology and language.

 

[NotInRHouse_anon]

The problem is legacy admissions.

Athletic experience has value.

Fighting adversity has value.

Being related to a rich person, not really.

 

[mdk02]

In the SC decision they still left room to evaluate applicants based on their own "unique circumstances" this provides a very large window for all kinds of circumstances, this could include many different catagories, athletes, disadvantaged applicants, legacies, just to name a few.
Biden's statement that disadvantaged/ minority students had to meet normal admission standards to be admitted is universally incorrect (as it is for all special interest groups athletes, legacies, talented musicians, and performers, and other uniquely talented individual). I would expect most universities to quickly adapt and adjust to the decision. Many universities have developed programs for specific groups with unique guidelines. Just an opinion but I don't think this will change a whole lot other than terminology and language.

Texas has had what is at least a partial workaround for decades. The Top 10% of any HS in Texas is guaranteed admission to the UT university system. That includes inner city schools that are predominately minority and some rural systems that are predominately white. Doesn't guarantee UT-Austin, but you will be in the system.

 

[Brisket and Bourbon]

Colleges already do…

 

[jakeknight]

Legacy admission is a big problem for the ivies as well as other private universities, hard to bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[mdk02]

Legacy admission is a big problem for the ivies as well as other private universities, hard to bite the hand that feeds you.

Some people forget that the demographics of alumni at those schools are very different than the grads from the 50s and 60s. The percentage of African-American alums is close to the percentage in the population as a whole. If anything, Asians are underrepresented.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

What about preferential treatment to those who can play a musical instrument or dance or act?

YES.. if a university has competitive athletics then, yes, preferential treatment for athletes is fine. Students who do not want to attend a school with athletic scholarships have that choice.

BUT.. within that population of athletes, preferences given to race or religion should not occur.

THAT was the point of the ruling.

 

[brgRC90]

I think it's a different issue. Affirmative action was using an immutable and, in the eyes of some, irrelevant characteristic like race as part of admissions. Athletic ability is a qualification. Of course, just how relevant being able to throw a ball is to an academic institution is an issue that's also been long debated. If we're going to nitpick about the Letter of the Law instead of the Spirit of the Law, which is usually what these issues are about, it's hard to see how athletic ability should play much or any part.

 

[Jtung230]

Legacy admission is a big problem for the ivies as well as other private universities, hard to bite the hand that feeds you.

My colleague who’s son is triple legacy (parents and grandfather) got rejected to ND. 1540 SAT and straight A student.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

My colleague who’s son is triple legacy (parents and grandfather) got rejected to ND. 1540 SAT and straight A student.

(kinda wonder if the colleague's son blew an interview or something on purpose.. must be hard to not attend ND given that legacy... so eliminate the possibility and family won't scold you for rejecting their legacy)

This is a good time to talk about legacy JFK's application essay for Harvard.. (hint, it was good to be a legacy from a wealthy family). Dad Joe attended Harvard as did JFK's older brother Joe Jr (killed in WWII).

The reasons that I have for wishing to go to Harvard are several. I feel that Harvard can give me a better background and a better liberal education than any other university. I have always wanted to go there, as I have felt that it is not just another college, but is a university with something definite to offer. Then too, I would like to go to the same college as my father. To be a "Harvard man" is an enviable distinction and one that I sincerely hope I shall attain.​

​

April 23, 1935​

John F. Kennedy​

​

My opinion on legacies is that they are fine. Those universities would not be so in-demand now with such great reputations had they never taken any legacies at all. The legacies.. and the money that came from such families.. BUILT those universities into what they now are.

 

[brgRC90]

This is a good time to talk about legacy JFK's application essay for Harvard.. (hint, it was good to be a legacy from a wealthy family). Dad Joe attended Harvard as did JFK's older brother Joe Jr (killed in WWII).

The reasons that I have for wishing to go to Harvard are several. I feel that Harvard can give me a better background and a better liberal education than any other university. I have always wanted to go there, as I have felt that it is not just another college, but is a university with something definite to offer. Then too, I would like to go to the same college as my father. To be a "Harvard man" is an enviable distinction and one that I sincerely hope I shall attain.​

​

April 23, 1935​

John F. Kennedy​

The Ivies were not nearly as reputable and academically rigorous in those days. They were kind of unabashed prep schools for the very rich.

 

[Jtung230]

(kinda wonder if the colleague's son blew an interview or something on purpose.. must be hard to not attend ND given that legacy... so eliminate the possibility and family won't scold you for rejecting their legacy)

This is a good time to talk about legacy JFK's application essay for Harvard.. (hint, it was good to be a legacy from a wealthy family). Dad Joe attended Harvard as did JFK's older brother Joe Jr (killed in WWII).

The reasons that I have for wishing to go to Harvard are several. I feel that Harvard can give me a better background and a better liberal education than any other university. I have always wanted to go there, as I have felt that it is not just another college, but is a university with something definite to offer. Then too, I would like to go to the same college as my father. To be a "Harvard man" is an enviable distinction and one that I sincerely hope I shall attain.​

​

April 23, 1935​

John F. Kennedy​

Nope. It’s a numbers game. ND took 5 kids from his high school.

ETA: willing to bet that all 5 are also legacies with same or higher SAT scores and GPA. Don’t feel bad for him. He is going to Gtown.

 

[ashokan]

Ivies have lost the plot and turned toxic
There are regular warnings about hiring them
I'm constantly seeing Ivy grads selling out to China, weaponizing institutions and doing massive damage.
More sports - less "academics".
Close departments

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/professor-started-tracking-fortune-500-184223935.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...ogists-january-6-gop-elitism-populsim/621153/

 

[jsol_05]

Another stir the pot Zzzzz post by @Morrischiano

I think it’s a valid concern and if the SC rules that no preference should be given based on race then it shouldn’t be given based on athletic ability. Trust me someone will test preference being given to athletes very soon

 

[Section124]

I don’t have a problem with legacies at private schools. They usually pay the freight so the school can offer grants to deserving students.

 

[Jtung230]

I don’t have a problem with legacies at private schools. They usually pay the freight so the school can offer grants to deserving students.

So you are ok with preferential treatment for rich people?

 

[Section124]

So you are ok with preferential treatment for rich people?

Just talking private schools only here. Not really a fan but I get that money pays the bills/endowments/buildings. I know a lot of friends who’s kids were only accepted to prestigious privates because they were paying full freight. I wouldn’t call them rich but that is their choice. It’s an advantage regardless.

 

[mdk02]

Nope. It’s a numbers game. ND took 5 kids from his high school.

ETA: willing to bet that all 5 are also legacies with same or higher SAT scores and GPA. Don’t feel bad for him. He is going to Gtown.

Believe it or not, if he was from 1 town over, let alone Montana or Wyoming, I'd bet he would have gotten in.

 

[mdk02]

Just talking private schools only here. Not really a fan but I get that money pays the bills/endowments/buildings. I know a lot of friends who’s kids were only accepted to prestigious privates because they were paying full freight. I wouldn’t call them rich but that is their choice. It’s an advantage regardless.

But how much? The days of a double legacy with a 1250 and full pay getting into a selective school are long gone.

 

[Jtung230]

Believe it or not, if he was from 1 town over, let alone Montana or Wyoming, I'd bet he would have gotten in.

That’s why I say it’s a numbers game.

 

[RUGuitarMan1]

(kinda wonder if the colleague's son blew an interview or something on purpose.. must be hard to not attend ND given that legacy... so eliminate the possibility and family won't scold you for rejecting their legacy)

This is a good time to talk about legacy JFK's application essay for Harvard.. (hint, it was good to be a legacy from a wealthy family). Dad Joe attended Harvard as did JFK's older brother Joe Jr (killed in WWII).

The reasons that I have for wishing to go to Harvard are several. I feel that Harvard can give me a better background and a better liberal education than any other university. I have always wanted to go there, as I have felt that it is not just another college, but is a university with something definite to offer. Then too, I would like to go to the same college as my father. To be a "Harvard man" is an enviable distinction and one that I sincerely hope I shall attain.​

​

April 23, 1935​

John F. Kennedy​

​

My opinion on legacies is that they are fine. Those universities would not be so in-demand now with such great reputations had they never taken any legacies at all. The legacies.. and the money that came from such families.. BUILT those universities into what they now are.

While I’m a fan of JFK because of his overall intelligence and empathy for the human condition, his access and privilege to attend Harvard isn’t exemplary. Some of the family’s fortune wasn’t earned legally. The essence of what the US represents is access and openness to individual achievement and success, no matter what background and status one is born into. One of the major problems we have today is the out of reach cost of a four year college for a huge portion of the American population. A lot different from the era when my modest, blue collar parents could afford my RU education.

 

[NorthernKnight_rivals]

I think it’s a valid concern and if the SC rules that no preference should be given based on race then it shouldn’t be given based on athletic ability. Trust me someone will test preference being given to athletes very soon

There’s no constitutional issue. No protected class.

 

[Plum Street]

lol cmon this ship has sailed

 

[Section124]

But how much? The days of a double legacy with a 1250 and full pay getting into a selective school are long gone.

Great question. Not sure. I totally agree the kid still has to have decent scores/rankings. Probably someone from a family of wealth with a lifetime of giving / names on buildings would help. I don’t think that is a large population but may be issues at schools like USC where celebrity parents buy their kids in.

 

[brgRC90]

I think it’s a valid concern and if the SC rules that no preference should be given based on race then it shouldn’t be given based on athletic ability. Trust me someone will test preference being given to athletes very soon

I suppose colleges could argue that taking athletes is part of their religion. Then they would get special rights.

 

[NorthernKnight_rivals]

It’s pretty clear a significant amount of people don’t understand the SC Ruling, the 14th Amendment & protected classes.

 

[LETSGORU91_]

Wait, if they are a good athlete, we are supposed to pay them (NIL) AND loosen the requirements for admission too? F*ck no. It's an institution of higher learning. The emphasis (even in a small amount) shouldn't be on how much cash we can throw at them and/or how much easier we can make it for them to attend.

 

[NickRU714]

Wait, if they are a good athlete, we are supposed to pay them (NIL) AND loosen the requirements for admission too? F*ck no. It's an institution of higher learning. The emphasis (even in a small amount) shouldn't be on how much cash we can throw at them and/or how much easier we can make it for them to attend.

This has always happened.

If you are a good athlete, Rutgers pays you to attend (scholarship) and you only have to meet the NCAA minimum qualifier requirements (which are much lower than the requirements for a non-athlete student).

Sounds like you think Rutgers should go above their peers and start requiring higher standards?
Doubt you'll get much support for that here.

 

[RUschool]

My colleague who’s son is triple legacy (parents and grandfather) got rejected to ND. 1540 SAT and straight A student.

They need to donate more money.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Ivies have lost the plot and turned toxic
There are regular warnings about hiring them
I'm constantly seeing Ivy grads selling out to China, weaponizing institutions and doing massive damage.
More sports - less "academics".
Close departments

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/professor-started-tracking-fortune-500-184223935.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...ogists-january-6-gop-elitism-populsim/621153/

We should totally eliminate anyone from Harvard or Yale from becoming President... by not voting for them. Because those schools have dominated and if some entity wanted to assure the best probability for their Manchurian Candidate they would feed them through those schools. Just eliminate them (and Columbia) from serving in important government positions.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Wait, if they are a good athlete, we are supposed to pay them (NIL) AND loosen the requirements for admission too? F*ck no. It's an institution of higher learning. The emphasis (even in a small amount) shouldn't be on how much cash we can throw at them and/or how much easier we can make it for them to attend.

So few are treated, or would be, that way. The reputation of Rutgers academically resides in its academics.. professors and achievements of its graduates. While we should avoid totally negative impressions by schollie athletes, it hasn't hurt UNC and others much.

 

[NickRU714]

Are there any schools that don't require athletes to just be minimum qualifiers?

I vaguely remember hearing Standford requires even athletes to actually get admitted.
Maybe ND?
Anyone else?

 

[tom1944]

If colleges want a diverse class they should admit a certain number of applicants from zip codes. Take a set number of kids from every zip code that match the colleges expected range of whatever category they measure for acceptance.

 

[pmvon]

Wouldn’t it all be part of a diverse population?

Legacies, first time, athletes, artists, academics, various economic and geographic strata?

 

[mdk02]

If colleges want a diverse class they should admit a certain number of applicants from zip codes. Take a set number of kids from every zip code that match the colleges expected range of whatever category they measure for acceptance.

How is that better than the Top 10 % of each HS in state? At least for public's.