Until this scandal, I believed no school should ever get it. But after the latest developments, yes, Penn State should get the death penalty. And the Big 10 should kick them out once the team is reinstated.
Should Penn State get the death penalty?
- Thread starter QuaoarsKing
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Until this scandal, I believed no school should ever get it. But after the latest developments, yes, Penn State should get the death penalty. And the Big 10 should kick them out once the team is reinstated.
Until this scandal, I believed no school should ever get it. But after the latest developments, yes, Penn State should get the death penalty. And the Big 10 should kick them out once the team is reinstated.
Until this scandal, I believed no school should ever get it. But after the latest developments, yes, Penn State should get the death penalty. And the Big 10 should kick them out once the team is reinstated.
Until this scandal, I believed no school should ever get it. But after the latest developments, yes, Penn State should get the death penalty. And the Big 10 should kick them out once the team is reinstated.
Some football player committed a felony and the Tenn spokesmansaid, "Thank goodness it wasn't an NCAA violation!"
Felonies were okay, NCAA violations were bad. State Penn will skate.
Felonies were okay, NCAA violations were bad. State Penn will skate.
It has nothing to do with student athletes and recruitment. It has nothing to do with the players receiving extra benefits. It has nothing to do with student athletes and cheating, never going to class, and being given grades. It has nothing to do with helping a team win (i.e., steroids, hidden cameras or microphones in locker rooms, etc.). Absolutely zero of these terrible actions lead to the team having better players, with more ****, and more winning. Anything outside of that I think the NCAA should let the FBI and the cops handle it. I don't want the NCAA to further stick their noses in **** that should be outside of their control. For example, what state flag we fly is none of their damn business and it should stay that way. Just because they made the wrong decision on that situation doesn't mean I want them to make the wrong decision here.
Do you want the NCAA putting us on probation if one of our coaches gets a DUI? What should they have done to Andy Kennedy for getting drunk and punching a cabby after some racial slurs? If a coach is sleeping with a mistress and gets drunk and wrecks his motorcycle, should the NCAA reduce the number of scholarships for the next year? This is a slippery slope folks.
I absolutely hate the corruption that was happening at PSU but until I hear that they somehow (for God's sake this is a sick thought) were giving improper benefits to student athletes ala the Sandusky method, then it stays a criminal matter alone and one that the NCAA has no need to deal with. And for those who will argue lack of institutional control, that clause again involves student athletes in particular and not the actions of the coaches when student athletes are not in consideration.
Fire away.
Do you want the NCAA putting us on probation if one of our coaches gets a DUI? What should they have done to Andy Kennedy for getting drunk and punching a cabby after some racial slurs? If a coach is sleeping with a mistress and gets drunk and wrecks his motorcycle, should the NCAA reduce the number of scholarships for the next year? This is a slippery slope folks.
I absolutely hate the corruption that was happening at PSU but until I hear that they somehow (for God's sake this is a sick thought) were giving improper benefits to student athletes ala the Sandusky method, then it stays a criminal matter alone and one that the NCAA has no need to deal with. And for those who will argue lack of institutional control, that clause again involves student athletes in particular and not the actions of the coaches when student athletes are not in consideration.
Fire away.
But I'm not sure the lesson has been learned by the rest of us. Institutions must never cover this stuff up, and they ought to not even cover up like they do minor sexual harrassment of any kind. The fear of these incidents being exposed within colleges, govt. offices, and all over our society has caused an uncountable number to go unreported. This situation is unusually bad, but there's a lot of ******** been going on about everywhere for a long damn time. I haven't seen any evidence that other institutions are changing their covering up ways because of this. But if they're smart they will starting yesterday.
But they damn sure should get the death penalty, and I think they will.
But they damn sure should get the death penalty, and I think they will.
The NCAAs primary function is to oversee athletics and their operation and ensure fair play for all. What happened at PSU in regards to Sandusky and the cover upis outside the realm of their jurisdiction. The only possible argument that could be made is that they participated in this cover up so Sandusky could keep his job and that somehow gave PSU an advantage over other programs and this is stretching it to the extreme here.
We can only hope that ALL involved in the cover up will be prosecuted to the full extent the law allows and that PSU gets hit with so much civil liability and hemorrhages money at a rateas to hamper the operation of their athletic programs; i.e. sue them til they're broke and don't have a friggin red cent.
We can only hope that ALL involved in the cover up will be prosecuted to the full extent the law allows and that PSU gets hit with so much civil liability and hemorrhages money at a rateas to hamper the operation of their athletic programs; i.e. sue them til they're broke and don't have a friggin red cent.
What the *%@% is wrong with you?
The NCAA's job is to protect the integrity of college football. Penn State had a coach raping a kid in the team locker room. They had it reported to the head coach who then used his influence to protect his friend so he could rape other kids. The predator was allowed to use Penn State athletic facilities to lure kids in. He was allowed to use his friendship to Penn State to raise money and to bring even more kids into his "charity". Then when they all got caught the head coach lied to everyone about his involvement and instructed others to do the same.
What kind of bat **** crazy does it take to think that the NCAA has to stop at the point where it gives a team a competitive advantage? This isn't the anti-doping agency. Hell, how does going to class help a student athlete on the field? Based on your standard the NCAA just shouldn't worry about that. *%@% em if they can't read. Penn State athletic administration covered up a child rape that happened in the <span style="font-weight: bold;">!%++!$% FOOTBALL COMPLEX</span> and you don't think the NCAA has a right to weigh in? The coach at Tennessee got suspended by the NCAA for having a kid in his house eating some KFC but had Pearl just raped him you would have been better with that? Or do you just feel it's ok because the kid being raped wasn't a recruit? Can we be sure of that? Did anyone check to see if any of these kids played ball?
I am gobsmacked by people who don't think the NCAA should get involved. If the NCAA is there to protect the integrity of college football, a task that they have monumentally failed to do for years, and they don't do something about Penn State then they are just giving up on imposing any integrity at all on college sports. If that's the case just disband the damn thing....
The NCAA's job is to protect the integrity of college football. Penn State had a coach raping a kid in the team locker room. They had it reported to the head coach who then used his influence to protect his friend so he could rape other kids. The predator was allowed to use Penn State athletic facilities to lure kids in. He was allowed to use his friendship to Penn State to raise money and to bring even more kids into his "charity". Then when they all got caught the head coach lied to everyone about his involvement and instructed others to do the same.
What kind of bat **** crazy does it take to think that the NCAA has to stop at the point where it gives a team a competitive advantage? This isn't the anti-doping agency. Hell, how does going to class help a student athlete on the field? Based on your standard the NCAA just shouldn't worry about that. *%@% em if they can't read. Penn State athletic administration covered up a child rape that happened in the <span style="font-weight: bold;">!%++!$% FOOTBALL COMPLEX</span> and you don't think the NCAA has a right to weigh in? The coach at Tennessee got suspended by the NCAA for having a kid in his house eating some KFC but had Pearl just raped him you would have been better with that? Or do you just feel it's ok because the kid being raped wasn't a recruit? Can we be sure of that? Did anyone check to see if any of these kids played ball?
I am gobsmacked by people who don't think the NCAA should get involved. If the NCAA is there to protect the integrity of college football, a task that they have monumentally failed to do for years, and they don't do something about Penn State then they are just giving up on imposing any integrity at all on college sports. If that's the case just disband the damn thing....
Thats what the death penalty should be saved for. Throw the book at everyone responsible legally, but this is far beyond an ncaa issue.
Why is that what the death penalty is for? Why can't it also be for the President of the University, the Athletic Director, the Head Football coach and a graduate assistant coach enabling a child rapist, who is also a former employee and coach, to sexually molest a lot of children? I don't understand. How can you possibly police colloege football if you can't do something about a place that not only does nothing to prevent a child rapist, but sets up the "Neverland Ranch" he can use to lure the little boys in?Hump4Hoops said:
I feel like I'm becoming unhinged from reality because for the life of me I can't understand the lack of outrage in some of you people. Is there really a large sub-set of people in this country for whom child rape is not that big of a deal? **** man, let's play some football, quit worrying about that whole child rape thing! This entire thing is a bit surreal for me.
The integrity of the game is to make sure it is fair for all teams to compete. You do that by making sure that student athletes are indeed qualified to participate, have not received benefits outside the rules provided, have not cheated once in school, and that they govern the rules of the game in a way that makes the games fair for anyone to win. Your example about making sure <span style="text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold;">STUDENT</span> athletes go to class shows that you have zero ability to use logic in this situation and only emotion about child rape.
The integrity of the <span style="text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold;">game</span> was not hurt by this criminal. Penn State didn't win more games unfairly did they?
We have a police force, the FBI, CIA, and others for this type of stuff.
The integrity of the <span style="text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold;">game</span> was not hurt by this criminal. Penn State didn't win more games unfairly did they?
We have a police force, the FBI, CIA, and others for this type of stuff.
IF the NCAA can establish some form of jurisdiction, and according to those bylaws quoted in that letter they may have some, then I'm all for them exercising whatever penalties they could bring, up to and including the death penalty. I won't shed nary a tear for PSU.
However this is the NCAA we're talking about. What we think they should do and what they do have in the past gone in opposite directions. This is the same group of ******** that hounded JWS into retirement with dubious accusations. This is also the same bunch of ******** who couldn't find anything wrong with the recruitment of Cam Newton to AU. I'm not going to hold my breath for the NCAA to do something.
If the NCAA can bring some major sanctions against PSU I will be pleasantly surprised.
However this is the NCAA we're talking about. What we think they should do and what they do have in the past gone in opposite directions. This is the same group of ******** that hounded JWS into retirement with dubious accusations. This is also the same bunch of ******** who couldn't find anything wrong with the recruitment of Cam Newton to AU. I'm not going to hold my breath for the NCAA to do something.
If the NCAA can bring some major sanctions against PSU I will be pleasantly surprised.
Those that you mentioned could face criminal charges for failing to report a crime. I don't see why the NCAA should punish PSU.
Should be punished to the severest possible letter of the law. The NCAA just has no reason to get involved here. I'm not suffering from a lack of outrage, I just think that punishing PSU here for non-football related crimes makes no sense.
If I make a habit of killing hookers in the bathroom at work and my boss helps me cover it up, you should send us both to jail, but you don't burn down the office.
If I make a habit of killing hookers in the bathroom at work and my boss helps me cover it up, you should send us both to jail, but you don't burn down the office.
The men who deserve to be punished have prison to worry about. That's far more severe on a personal level, and this is a very personal issue for those involved. The NCAA can only punish Penn State fans and athletes at this point. Are they to blame? Hell no. The embarrassment that fan base has suffered is enough.<div>
</div><div>Get a grip, people. The NCAA might put Penn State on some sort of 2-3 year probation for lack of institutional control, but it shouldn't be anywhere close to the death penalty. Jerry Sandusky is the only entity deserving of such a fate.</div>
</div><div>Get a grip, people. The NCAA might put Penn State on some sort of 2-3 year probation for lack of institutional control, but it shouldn't be anywhere close to the death penalty. Jerry Sandusky is the only entity deserving of such a fate.</div>
I am a bit surprised that you have such a blind faith in the NCAA and their rules. They overstep their bounds by using ambiguous rules like "ethics" and "honesty" clauses and both of those clauses clearly use wording that implies they are in regards to actions involving student athletes. They have no business in this criminal matter.
I do think that the FBI is going to uncover whatever it was that Sandusky had on Joe though and when they do it will likely be improper actions regarding recruiting, money, etc. At that point, the NCAA should step in because it's their territory. As Patdog said in the other thread, this isn't over yet. I don't think Joe had anything to do with the molestation other than the cover up but the fact that he did cover it up makes me think something else big, NCAA-wise, had to be going on. Otherwise Joe was just an *******.
I do think that the FBI is going to uncover whatever it was that Sandusky had on Joe though and when they do it will likely be improper actions regarding recruiting, money, etc. At that point, the NCAA should step in because it's their territory. As Patdog said in the other thread, this isn't over yet. I don't think Joe had anything to do with the molestation other than the cover up but the fact that he did cover it up makes me think something else big, NCAA-wise, had to be going on. Otherwise Joe was just an *******.
DerHntr said:
It absolutely 'fits' the definition of 'Lack of Instutional Control.'
More and more evidence is coming out that shows that the President, AD & Paterno 'conspired' to cover up Sandusky's actions.
From the latest Yahoo article ...
It is now perfectly reasonable to postulate that Joe Paterno protected Jerry Sandusky, who had been a Penn State assistant coach from 1969 until retiring in 1999. Sandusky went right along with his business of showering with boys in the locker room, of bringing kids to the sidelines during games, of sitting in the press/luxury box area of home games. Sandusky used the program's allure like a lollipop to draw kids into his van.
Hump4Hoops said:
No 'clue' what business you are in BUT what kind of 'business' would still be conducting normal daily operations 'after' it is revealed that the President, CFO, & COO allowed and then covered up 30+ years of repeated felony child molestation?
Who knows ... as more and more is 'leaked' we may find out that one reason the coaches averaged 'coaching' at PSU for 25+ years was because they knew they they were 'safe' ... they all 'knew' where the skeletons were buried and Joe Pa 'protected' them. All they had to do was keep on winning.
The answer is no.
It's not like the NCAA came in and warned them to stop, and they still continued (NFL/Saints or SMU). It's usually the repeat offender label that really gets teams in trouble. In 2014, or whenever they decide to end the investigation, they're going to see:
Paterno - Dead
Sandusky - Jail for the rest of his life or dead
Spanier, Schults, & Curley might be in jail.
Plus, PSU and all the of the above will likely be mentioned in civil lawsuits for the next decade.
None of those guys will have worked at Penn State for years by then. Are they going to punish PSU then for violating some type of ethical clause? Maybe so. They might (seems likely) even say that they lacked "institutional control". But it will take PSU covering more up between now and then for the death penalty to really be on the table.
It's not like the NCAA came in and warned them to stop, and they still continued (NFL/Saints or SMU). It's usually the repeat offender label that really gets teams in trouble. In 2014, or whenever they decide to end the investigation, they're going to see:
Paterno - Dead
Sandusky - Jail for the rest of his life or dead
Spanier, Schults, & Curley might be in jail.
Plus, PSU and all the of the above will likely be mentioned in civil lawsuits for the next decade.
None of those guys will have worked at Penn State for years by then. Are they going to punish PSU then for violating some type of ethical clause? Maybe so. They might (seems likely) even say that they lacked "institutional control". But it will take PSU covering more up between now and then for the death penalty to really be on the table.
when arguing for PSU football.<div>DerHntr said:
</div><div>Integrity:
<span id="hotword" name="hotword" style="position: static; font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, 85, 187); cursor: pointer; ">adherence</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "></span><span id="hotword" name="hotword" style="position: static; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">to</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "></span><span id="hotword" name="hotword" style="position: static; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">moral</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "></span><span id="hotword" name="hotword" style="position: static; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">and</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "></span><span id="hotword" name="hotword" style="position: static; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); cursor: default; ">ethical</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "></span><span id="hotword" name="hotword" style="position: static; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">principles;</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "></span><span id="hotword" name="hotword" style="position: static; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">soundness</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "></span><span id="hotword" name="hotword" style="position: static; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">of</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "></span><span id="hotword" name="hotword" style="position: static; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">moral</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "></span><span id="hotword" name="hotword" style="position: static; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); cursor: default; ">character;</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "></span><span id="hotword" name="hotword" style="position: static; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana; font-size: small; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); cursor: default; ">honesty.</span></div><div>
</div><div>I usually agree with most your post, but that word should come no where near this situation.... 17'em, burn it to the ground. I don't think it will happen though, the NCAA is more corrupt than DC.</div><div>
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on the actual death penalty part, but in the end I say yes. Reason being, I want the NCAA to send a message to everyone else who currently holds or will ever hold the position of college president, athletic director, or head coach. That message should be: if you ever do something like this, you will not just be looking at criminal penalties, but we will 17 your program. You will be forever remembered by your school's fans as the person who killedthe university'spride and joy.
This NCAA thing isn't about justice with me. It's about deterrence.
This NCAA thing isn't about justice with me. It's about deterrence.
what is the NCAA's exact definition of lack of institutional control? Shirley you know since you say it fits.
I think a lot of you are getting caught up in the semantics of "lack of institutional control" and are not thinking about the purpose of the NCAA.
Did they lack institutional control? Sure. Was that lack of control dealing with the football program? No.Was the lack of control over howstudent athletes were recruited, admitted to school, benefits they received, etc.? No.It was control of criminal activity of a sick piece of crap who likely won't make it a year in prison (hopefully). Nothing was part of the program that we know of.....yet. The part that at least gives me pause is the fact that he was using facilities on campus for this stuff. It's hard to overlook that even for me and my opinion of the situation and the NCAA. Even so, it is a criminal matter until they uncover Joe Pa hiding this activity because Sandusky knew Joe was funneling money to players and their parents (or something like that).
I think a lot of you are getting caught up in the semantics of "lack of institutional control" and are not thinking about the purpose of the NCAA.
Did they lack institutional control? Sure. Was that lack of control dealing with the football program? No.Was the lack of control over howstudent athletes were recruited, admitted to school, benefits they received, etc.? No.It was control of criminal activity of a sick piece of crap who likely won't make it a year in prison (hopefully). Nothing was part of the program that we know of.....yet. The part that at least gives me pause is the fact that he was using facilities on campus for this stuff. It's hard to overlook that even for me and my opinion of the situation and the NCAA. Even so, it is a criminal matter until they uncover Joe Pa hiding this activity because Sandusky knew Joe was funneling money to players and their parents (or something like that).
it's outside the realm of the NCAA to govern on this issue. Let law enforcement handle it. But if the NCAA wants to fry them, I don't see any problem with it.
The same f'ers that covered all this up are still on the job right? and too many fans are still in denial.Joe Pa's statue still stands proudly.
Penn State STILL hasn't done what it should in the matter. That tells me it will take the death penalty to teach a lesson that should already have been learnt. If PSU was sufficiently contrite and full of regret, then i'd probably think different.</p>
Penn State STILL hasn't done what it should in the matter. That tells me it will take the death penalty to teach a lesson that should already have been learnt. If PSU was sufficiently contrite and full of regret, then i'd probably think different.</p>
If they do get fried, then I'll laugh with everyone else about it. The question was "should they be"? I don't think so.
Question for everyone:
Should KU Basketball get the death penalty for the ticket scandal? Multiple administrators involved. Multiple year cover up. Millions of dollars involved. Money laundering, embezzlement, criminal activity, etc. People are in jail for it. All happening in and around the KU basketball program. No students athletes involved in the situation (not that I remember). Nothing to do with recruitment, benefits while in school, cheating, or play on the court. Where is your outrage?
Question for everyone:
Should KU Basketball get the death penalty for the ticket scandal? Multiple administrators involved. Multiple year cover up. Millions of dollars involved. Money laundering, embezzlement, criminal activity, etc. People are in jail for it. All happening in and around the KU basketball program. No students athletes involved in the situation (not that I remember). Nothing to do with recruitment, benefits while in school, cheating, or play on the court. Where is your outrage?
Don't punish the athletes, coaches, fans, etc. who had nothing to with these crimes. Sandusky and Co. are getting the book thrown at them in the court of law (and rightfully so).
Many of folks on here are arguing that it is outside the jurisdiction of the NCAA, arguing it isn't an integrity-of-the-game issue (Penn State isn't gaining an unfair advantage, etc). Well, I would argue that the driving force of the NCAA is to make sure that institutions maintain the correct balance of athletics, academics, being good citizens, etc (this is consistent with the letter from the NCAA to Penn State). One of the major motives of this cover-up was to protect the reputation of the football program and its coaches (among many motives... but this was a major one). In other words, Penn State got their priorities WAY out of whack; the athletic department was more concerned with it's reputation (i.e. future success and money) than doing the right thing.
The crimes of Jerry Sandusky are, of course, much MUCH more deplorable than the coverup. However, it is the cover-up that demonstrates the lack of institutional control and lack of proper priorities in the athletic department. When football/athletics starts taking precedent over doing the right thing, that is precisely when the NCAA should step in and say "No. That is not what college athletics is about". If you think about it, this is the basis of all NCAA decisions/penalties.
On another note, if you equate the statement "This is outside the jurisdiction of the NCAA" with "I support child rape" then your and idiot. Seriously.
The crimes of Jerry Sandusky are, of course, much MUCH more deplorable than the coverup. However, it is the cover-up that demonstrates the lack of institutional control and lack of proper priorities in the athletic department. When football/athletics starts taking precedent over doing the right thing, that is precisely when the NCAA should step in and say "No. That is not what college athletics is about". If you think about it, this is the basis of all NCAA decisions/penalties.
On another note, if you equate the statement "This is outside the jurisdiction of the NCAA" with "I support child rape" then your and idiot. Seriously.
DerHntr said:
OK...
"it is the responsibility of each member institution to control its intercollegiate athletics program in compliance with the rules and regulations of the Association. The institution's president or chancellor is responsible for the administration of all aspects of the athletics program..."
"...includes responsibility for the actions of its staff members and for the actions of any other individual or organization engaged in activities promoting the athletics interests of the institution."
The NCAA requires that "for intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches and all others associated with these athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty, and responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program."
Now before you say "hey, well, DUI's don't promote civility either", realize we are talking about anally raping children and not some two-bit misdemeanor.
I don't know what penalties the NCAA is empowered to hand out to a school that is not on probation. If their rules prohibit the death penalty, I hope the get the toughest thing that can be handed down.
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