Should Penn State get the death penalty?

[dawgs.sixpack]

no.

no players were involved. and no rogue boosters were involved. the coaches and adminstrators involved are gone. they are disgraced publicly and professionally. the ones most involved in the cover up are going to jail.

the death penalty would only serve to give random outsiders some sense of justice to the name penn st when in reality it does nothing but hurt the current players who weren't even in HS when most of this took place, the current coaches who weren't on the staff, and the boosters who had no hand in any of this. take away a couple of scholarships or some bowl games, but no way should they get the death penalty.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

If I make a habit of killing hookers in the bathroom at work and my boss helps me cover it up, you should send us both to jail, but you don't burn down the office.

exactly. i thought about including a similar analogy in my post. furthermore, if your supervisor and the CEO are found guilty of killing hookers and covering it up, and the owners of the company wanna bring in anew supervisor and CEO to clean up the mess,they should be allowed to bring in new execs, and the lower level workeers shouldn't be out of a job and the company completely shut down due the crimes of a couple. now the company might eventually have to shut down due to law suits and fines and attrition of employees who can't stomach working there anymore, butno one should force a shutdown of the company.

 

[DerHntr]

Then answer my question about KU basketball? Should they get the death penalty for the ticket scandal?

The problem is that we are talking about a criminal matter. Once we start doing that, the NCAA's written rules that you posted have to be interpreted because they are written with an overarching style that, in my opinion, oversteps their boundaries. That is all I am saying.

I won't be surpised at all if the NCAA hammers them with sanctions but I also won't be surprised if they let the courts do what they are supposed to do. I know a lot of people who have said the same thing. To me that means that the NCAA has written rules in a way that allows them to interpret however they want. It's crap.

 

[jacksonreb1]

this is not an NCAA issue. the athletice dept should be cleaned out top to bottom, but this is a legal issue not an NCAA issue. if you do think the ncaa should give the death penalty then it would have to be over the whole penn st ath dept, not just football. the guy happened to be a football coach but the coverup (which is the premise for the penalty) was by the top admin folks over the whole dept. all or nothing.

ETA...actually by the logic of the ncaa diving in, one should also be arguing they should lose their academic acreditation and the whole university should be closed. </p>

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

The integrity of the game is to make sure it is fair for all teams to compete. You do that by making sure that student athletes are indeed qualified to participate, have not received benefits outside the rules provided, have not cheated once in school, and that they govern the rules of the game in a way that makes the games fair for anyone to win. Your example about making sure <span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; TEXT-DECORATION: underline">STUDENT</span> athletes go to class shows that you have zero ability to use logic in this situation and only emotion about child rape.

The integrity of the <span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; TEXT-DECORATION: underline">game</span> was not hurt by this criminal. Penn State didn't win more games unfairly did they?

We have a police force, the FBI, CIA, and others for this type of stuff.

when arguing for PSU football.
<div>
</div><div>Integrity: <span style="POSITION: static; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(0,85,187); FONT-SIZE: small; CURSOR: pointer" id="hotword" name="hotword">adherence</span><span style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small"></span><span style="POSITION: static; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small" id="hotword" name="hotword">to</span><span style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small"></span><span style="POSITION: static; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small" id="hotword" name="hotword">moral</span><span style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small"></span><span style="POSITION: static; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small" id="hotword" name="hotword">and</span><span style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small"></span><span style="POSITION: static; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small; CURSOR: default" id="hotword" name="hotword">ethical</span><span style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small"></span><span style="POSITION: static; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small" id="hotword" name="hotword">principles;</span><span style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small"></span><span style="POSITION: static; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small" id="hotword" name="hotword">soundness</span><span style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small"></span><span style="POSITION: static; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small" id="hotword" name="hotword">of</span><span style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small"></span><span style="POSITION: static; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small" id="hotword" name="hotword">moral</span><span style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small"></span><span style="POSITION: static; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small; CURSOR: default" id="hotword" name="hotword">character;</span><span style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small"></span><span style="POSITION: static; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: small; CURSOR: default" id="hotword" name="hotword">honesty.</span></div><div>
</div><div>I usually agree with most your post, but that word should come no where near this situation.... 17'em, burn it to the ground. I don't think it will happen though, the NCAA is more corrupt than DC.</div><div>
</div>

so you are projecting sandusky's, joepa's, and the VP's/AD's actions in molesting and covering up molestation of boys across all people related to penn st.? what have the current players done to be included in with them? what have 99+% of the alums done to be included with them? what have the current coaching staff done to be included with them? what have the current admin done to be included with them?

if god forbid, dan mullen was involved in something like this, would you want everyone projecting that image and lack of integrity on you because you are a msu supporter/alum/student/scholarship athlete?

 

[FlabLoser]

Then answer my question about KU basketball? Should they get the death penalty for the ticket scandal?

The problem is that we are talking about a criminal matter. Once we start doing that, the NCAA's written rules that you posted have to be interpreted because they are written with an overarching style that, in my opinion, oversteps their boundaries.

I don't know the details of the KU tickets scandal.

Those rules are the NCAA's own rules. They set their own boundaries and their own rules. You can't say they are overreaching because they are the ones that get to define their own reach.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

The same f'ers that covered all this up are still on the job right? and too many fans are still in denial.Joe Pa's statue still stands proudly.

Penn State STILL hasn't done what it should in the matter. That tells me it will take the death penalty to teach a lesson that should already have been learnt. If PSU was sufficiently contrite and full of regret, then i'd probably think different.</p>

all those(that we know of) involved in the cover up are out of a job.

 

[DerHntr]

nm

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

on the actual death penalty part, but in the end I say yes. Reason being, I want the NCAA to send a message to everyone else who currently holds or will ever hold the position of college president, athletic director, or head coach. That message should be: if you ever do something like this, you will not just be looking at criminal penalties, but we will 17 your program. You will be forever remembered by your school's fans as the person who killedthe university'spride and joy.
This NCAA thing isn't about justice with me. It's about deterrence.

i think having your entire career and reputation ruined and spending a significant portion of the rest of your life in jail is more than enough deterrent. if that's not enough, being subjected to years of civil law suits should deter you. i feel like preserving the repuation of my univeristy would rank really low on the deterrent totem pole when considering all the potential consequences. if you are willing to risk your professional life, your personal life, and you life's wealth to cover something up, i really doubt that thinking about the harm you are going to cause the university is gonna change your decision.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

Then answer my question about KU basketball? Should they get the death penalty for the ticket scandal?

The problem is that we are talking about a criminal matter. Once we start doing that, the NCAA's written rules that you posted have to be interpreted because they are written with an overarching style that, in my opinion, oversteps their boundaries.

I don't know the details of the KU tickets scandal.

Those rules are the NCAA's own rules. They set their own boundaries and their own rules. You can't say they are overreaching because they are the ones that get to define their own reach.

i don't think the ncaa was imagining this kinda situation when writing the rules.the spirit of the rules clearly is not to include these kinda situations and simply because oneCAN read the wordingto allow thencaato get involved doesn't mean the ncaa shouldget involved. not their place. stick to governing recruiting violations that provide on field advantages, not criminal acts which ultimately are already going tohurt the programmore thanany ncaaprobation.

 

[00Dawg]

but these guys are usually loaded, and they frequently have massive egos.
Did you notice how things were handled by and with regards to Joe Pa? It was all about preserving his legacy. Many coaches in the bizhave the same desire.
Let's also see just how long the 2 remaining living individuals in this triumvirate spend in jail before we determine how effective of a deterrent that particular item is.

 

[boomboommsu]

i guess that pushes me more towards no dealth penalty. have the team do PSAs and such, try to make some lemonade out of lemons yada yada yada

 

[LightninInside]

The men who deserve to be punished have prison to worry about. That's far more severe on a personal level, and this is a very personal issue for those involved. The NCAA can only punish Penn State fans and athletes at this point. Are they to blame? Hell no. The embarrassment that fan base has suffered is enough.<div>
</div><div>Get a grip, people. The NCAA might put Penn State on some sort of 2-3 year probation for lack of institutional control, but it shouldn't be anywhere close to the death penalty. Jerry Sandusky is the only entity deserving of such a fate.</div>

The death penalty will teach other schools that covering up for their athletic coaches worst imaginable felonies will be dealt with in the most serious manner. The only punishment that fits this crime is the death penalty and even that isn't enough but will make every other program out there take notice.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

but these guys are usually loaded, and they frequently have massive egos.
Did you notice how things were handled by and with regards to Joe Pa? It was all about preserving his legacy. Many coaches in the bizhave the same desire.
Let's also see just how long the 2 remaining living individuals in this triumvirate spend in jail before we determine how effective of a deterrent that particular item is.

joe pa was fired pretty much as soon as the **** hit the fan. not sure what you wanted them to do?tar and feather a 90 year old man through state college after firing him? you gotta remember that whileobviously the higher ups at penn st and the board of trsutees(those not involved) knew that something awful was coming and the general nature of it, they didn't know the details until we basically knew them. the cops aren't gonna go spill the beans of their investigation until they take the evidence public. and i absolutely disagree that personal, professional, and financial ruin + significant jail time isn't enough of a deterrent. you just want the name "penn st" to get punished to make yourself feel better, but the name penn st is just a name. in actuality, it only hurts those who aren't involved in the the sandusky **** all to make you feel better.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

The men who deserve to be punished have prison to worry about. That's far more severe on a personal level, and this is a very personal issue for those involved. The NCAA can only punish Penn State fans and athletes at this point. Are they to blame? Hell no. The embarrassment that fan base has suffered is enough.
<div>
</div><div>Get a grip, people. The NCAA might put Penn State on some sort of 2-3 year probation for lack of institutional control, but it shouldn't be anywhere close to the death penalty. Jerry Sandusky is the only entity deserving of such a fate.</div>

The death penalty will teach other schools that covering up for their athletic coaches worst imaginable felonies will be dealt with in the most serious manner. The only punishment that fits this crime is the death penalty and even that isn't enough but will make every other program out there take notice.

again, i'd think facing personal, professional, and financial ruin+ and extended jail sentence would be all the deterrent any sane person needs.

if i was in their position, i would make my decision without ever considering thepenalties i'dbring on penn st if it ever came out. i'd make the decisionbased on "if this comes out, i'll be ruined. myentire life will be in tatters." andat no point would i think "if this comes out, it'lllead to penn st getting the death penalty." maybe it's selfish or narcisstic or whatever, but i value my own personal well being far more than myfootball program's well being.

 

[newyorkdawg]

They are not accepting responsibility and still trying to gain an advantage by associating with JoePa. He did not live long enough to be exposed, but now that he has been demonstrated to be complicit in the cover-up his memory should be expunged from Penn State athletics as much as possible.

Leaving the statue up is one way they show that what happened to the kids is not as important to them as the athletic legacy.

If they don't take the statue down and disassociate all memory of JoePa as much as possible soon, then the Death Penalty should be use, not just because of what done in the past, but because of the things they continue to do.

 

[Eureka Dog]

afdsfdfds

 

[DerHntr]

NCAA: "Disassociate with all the Joe Paterno stuff and you are good to go. Otherwise we will shut your football program down."

Penn State Officials: "That's it? Well hell yeah. Thanks fella."

 

[newyorkdawg]

Penn State is still trying to get benefit from the people involved. Your point that the current administration is not related to the people involved in the cover-up (or the original crimes) is well taken. But the current administration needs to express remorse in every way possible, and they're not.

The institution is still not in control.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

****, imo leaving a statue of joe pa up is a punishment, not a benefit. should they also wipe the stadium and trophy case clear of any national titles, bowl wins, and big 10 trophies accumulated under joe pa? is that enough to satiate your need to punish objects and namesinstead of actually punishing the people involved? i guess i just don't feel the need to see penn st punished if it isn't going to cause harm to any of the people actually involved in the sandusky molestion and subsequent cover up.

 

[Repeat Offender]

universities that are or were on probation for providing illegal benefits to recruits had nothing to with those scandals either, too bad. Penn State facilities were used to entice potential victimsand they also servedas basicallya "safe house" for a molester to get away with his deeds.Members of the PSU administration and the HC of the football programthen covered up the scandal for years in the hope of preserving the reputation of the football program and it's "legendary" head coach. If the NCAA does not impose harsh penalties against PSU, the organization should be disbanded. To me, this is moreabout the cover upthan the actualcriminal acts of Sandusky. For those that keep stating that PSU did not gain an advantage on the playing field because of these acts, that really has nothing to do with this case. If the NCAA was created, at least partially, for the purpose of preserving the integrity of collegeathletics and making sure that it's members follow certain ethical principles, PSU will be dealt with severely.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

but the difference is that a booster handing out $100 handshakes to a player (1) tilts the playing field in the favor of the offending program and (2) is not punishable by law. as stated above, unless they were using these kids to attract players to penn st, there was no competitive advantage gained. and these are CRIMES, not recruiting violations. these offenders are suffering a fate far far worse than getting the program on probation and missing a couple of bowl games.

 

[kimmer]

Read a little more carefully. The point being made was that having the NCAA sanction an institution for criminal conduct by an employee that has nothing to do with athletic competition is a precarious thing because of the question of where to draw the line. The DUI was simply put forth as an example and a pretty good one I might add. The NCAA rules and regulations already have WAY too many loopholes, landmines, and such to negotiate that are already enforced very selectively. The last thing that needs to happen is to complicate it even more to start sanctioning non-sports/non academic related behavior. As you said, the integrity of college football has been a thing of the past for a while now. Anyway, who are you really punishing if you sanction PSU now that everyone who had anything to do with this is either dead or no longer employed there?

The heinousness of this situation naturally makes everyone's desire for vengeance run high and they want everyone involved to pay the price and the university as well. I do too but, I do not want that to happen by further empowering an already corrupt, subjective, and selective, regulator of college athletics that will ultimately come back to harm many second tier programs.

 

[BiscuitEater]

Was that lack of control dealing with the football program? No.Was the lack of control over howstudent athletes were recruited, admitted to school, benefits they received, etc.? No.It was control of criminal activity of a sick piece of crap who likely won't make it a year in prison (hopefully). Nothing was part of the program that we know of.....yet.

we differ. We just discovered that Jo Pa lied and 'covered up' at least 10 (possibly 30) years of felony child molestation to protect the school and the athletic program.

So if Sandusky 'used' Joe Pa, PSU and the atheletic program to get tickets to bring in great HS players to travel to games, go to bowls, the NCAA should put PSU on probation. But, as long as these were only 10 year old kids, well the NCAA doesn't have a case.


I may be 'reading' too much into the what came out over the weekend, but I just can't see the NCAA not doing anything about a 30 year 'cover up' of felony child abuse when the athletic dept including the AD, and coaches knew exactly what was happening.about

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

The heinousness of this situation naturally makes everyone's desire for vengeance run high and they want everyone involved to pay the price and the university as well. I do too but, I do not want that to happen by further empowering an already corrupt, subjective, and selective, regulator of college athletics that will ultimately come back to harm many second tier programs.

the good news is that the university will pay. they'll pay out the *** in civil lawsuits. that will be more than sufficient punishment for penn st. no need for the ncaa to stick their noses in there.

 

[AssEndDawg]

I just think that punishing PSU here for <span style="font-weight: bold;">non-football related</span> crimes makes no sense.

If I make a habit of killing hookers in the bathroom at work and my boss helps me cover it up, you should send us both to jail, but you don't burn down the office.

Non-football related? Are you kidding me? So it's only related to football if they are on the field? The fact that the rapist was a former coach who's only ties to the school are through the football program doesn't make it football related? The rape took place IN the football locker rooms. The rape was witness by an existing football coach. The rape was covered up by the head coach and the athletic director. At what point does it become football related? I guess if he raped the Quarterback on the 50 yard line during a game then its an issue?

This crime happened because Penn State University put football above all else. They put football above the welfare of children. They setup a system whereby they let a man rape children so that the great gods of football could continue to wield their power over the school. Not only is this about football, it is <span style="font-weight: bold;">ENTIRELY</span> about football. They all knew it too, they say in the email that if it gets out it will be bad. The NCAA has already said they have jurisdiction. I could give a !+*! about repeat offender, this is <span style="font-weight: bold;">CHILD RAPE</span>!

Something tells me if your kid was raped by Sandusky you wouldn't have a problem with the NCAA doing something about a school that has so lost their way in terms of what is important that they would enable a serial child rapist (remember, they all knew this wasn't the first time) to use their football facilities to continue his work. All in the name of protecting the program from what would be, at most, some bad publicity. They choose football over the welfare of children. Had this just been Jo Pa then I would agree with you but when it involves multiple members of the coaching staff, the Athletic Director and the School President then the problem is the school. They hired people so morally bankrupt to run their organization that they would let a <span style="font-weight: bold;">CHILD RAPIST</span> continue his work. <span style="font-weight: bold;">A %%@+@%% child rapist people!!!!</span> Christ... what is wrong with you?

This thread makes me realize just how morally bankrupt our society is. People actually arguing the pro-rape side of this issue. "It's bad, but it's not so bad that it should impact college football..." I'm stunned.

 

[AssEndDawg]

so you are projecting sandusky's, joepa's, and the VP's/AD's actions in molesting and covering up molestation of boys across all people related to penn st.? what have the current players done to be included in with them? what have 99+% of the alums done to be included with them? what have the current coaching staff done to be included with them? what have the current admin done to be included with them?

if god forbid, dan mullen was involved in something like this, would you want everyone projecting that image and lack of integrity on you because you are a msu supporter/alum/student/scholarship athlete?

Hell yes everyone involved in Penn State share some responsibility. I'm not saying put them all in jail or anything, but they are not off the hook. Look, we have built a culture at MSU. We have some say in what is allowed and what is not allowed. We went and found a president. We picked this person to represent our University. He hired an Athletic Director and we have some say in that hire to varying degrees. They hire a head football coach and we have some say in that process to some extent. So as a University family if we did such a poor job of building a culture that we filled ALL of those positions with people some morally bankrupt that they felt that it was OK to cover up a child rape and allow a serial child rapist to continue using our athletic program as a honey trap for young boys then we deserve to burn to the ground too.

If Dan Mullen, Scott Strickland and Mark Keenum all conspired together to let a former coach rape a bunch of kids in the %$!*%$# football locker room I would want them all in jail and I would 100% believe that we deserved to have the football program shut down for a few years. When football becomes that much more important than anything else you need to stop for a while.

 

[AssEndDawg]

Just getting a feel for how serious you find child rape.

 

[eurotrash]

[No message]

 

[eurotrash]

get from college football? For some it matters more than family. They'd have trouble getting through the week without having their favorite team play on Saturday. So the university and Joe Pa covered up the rapes of a few kids. It's not like student athletes did anything wrong and they would be the ones to suffer as well. This issue is not directly football related so Penn State should be able to continue to recruit players of marginal academic ability in order to win games and satisfy the emotional needs of it's fans.

Wait. F me. Of course they should get the death penalty and for at least every year of the coverup. It's time our elites and elite institutions actually be held responsible for their poor and illegal decisions in so many areas. This is really an easy answer and no amount of parsing of NCAA regulations about whether athletes did such and such should matter. An incredibly popular and powerful football coach and high-ranking college administrators covered up child rape to protect the football program and Penn State's good name. %!$ that school.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

you ought to take a step back dude. no one is equating DUIs to child rape. no one is saying that football is bigger than child rape. no one is defending those that are culpable.

some of us are merely saying that implementing the death penalty is not fair to the 99+% of the penn st community, the current players, or the current staff. it serves no purpose except to make some people feel like justice has been served.

let's look at the fact for a second here though...
sandusky is going to jail. no one is arguing he shouldn't.
the ex-AD and ex-VP or whatever ex-admins were involved are likely going to jail based on the evidence that is coming out. no one is arguing they shouldn't.
joe pais dead. but if he wasn't you'd have to think at this point charges would be brought against him. no one is defending his actions.
the university and all the aforementioned involved are going to have their asses sued. no one is arguing they shouldn't be held liable.

the only thing some of us are arguing is that (1) it's not the ncaa's place to punish programs for criminal acts of employees, (2) the large majority of pann st boosters, fans, alums, players, students, employess, etc are not responsible for sandusky and the small circle invovled in the cover up, (3) the death penalty does nothing but to satiate a need for blood and serves no actual retribution against to folks who are to blame., and (4) there was no competitive advantage attained from the crimes committed.

and if msu was involved, i'd carry 0.0000000% of the blame. i'm wasn't involved in the hiring process. i don't have contact with the AD, univ pres, HC, etc. just because i go to a couple of games and ring my cowbell does not make me complicent in a coach's crimes. i work with a lot of penn st grads. they don't shoulder any of the blame for sandusky. they feel completely duped, not just by sandusky, but even joe pa. they didn't create an environment to foster child molestation. the blame falls on sandusky and the circle involved in keeping this under wraps for the last decade or so. not to the rest of the penn st community.

if your boss (or if you are the boss, your employee) was arrested for child molestation on company property or in a company vehicle, should you shoulder any fo the blame for that? should the govt step in a shut down the business? or would it make more sense for the criminal to be thrown in jail and sued by his victims, while the company picks up the pieces and hires new employees and tries to be more aware or cognizant of the signs of pedophilia moving forward?

 

[00Dawg]

what was done once they knew they were in trouble. I'm talking about what they did when they were still trying to cover things up. And this isn't just about Joe Pa. It's about at least 3 people, not including Sandusky, and probably several more, as well as the culture that spawned them. All of them had direct knowledge and chose to at best look the other way and at worst to hide the crimes.

As for making myself feel better, that's a load of crap. I don't want this to happen again. Ever. Anywhere. The best way to do that is to make sure every single person in a university's athletics program has a vested interest in making sure crimes like this don't go unreported.

 

[Repeat Offender]

program to skate past this issue with no penalties from the NCAA? Really? You bring up the fact that it was "employees" of the athletic dept. so no one outside of those people should be punished. Those "employees" were the actual athletic dept for PSU, there is no way to spin that fact. Pres, AD, HC, and no telling how many others were involved and are guilty of not reporting repeatedcrimes(against KIDS) yet there should be no punishment levied against PSU because these people were just "employees"?And their fans would be unfairly punished? These crimes are the worst in the history of college athletics and the university used it's power to bury the whole scandal(also allowing it to continue), I don't understand how anyone can truly believe that the PSU football program should suffer no penalties from the NCAA for this ********. Also, if the same situation occurred at MSU under the direction of JWS, do you think that the NCAA would get involved? </p>

 

[FlabLoser]

sandusky is going to jail. no one is arguing he shouldn't.
the ex-AD and ex-VP or whatever ex-admins were involved are likely going to jail based on the evidence that is coming out. no one is arguing they shouldn't.
joe pais dead. but if he wasn't you'd have to think at this point charges would be brought against him. no one is defending his actions.
the university and all the aforementioned involved are going to have their asses sued. no one is arguing they shouldn't be held liable.
<

Actually most PSU fans are defending everybody except Sandusky.

 

[AssEndDawg]

You keep softening. You keep pulling out ******** examples. If my employee did something wrong would I be to blame? No. But this is <span style="font-weight: bold;">EVERY SINGLE LEVEL OF THE ORGANIZATION!</span> The better example is the stock market. If I own stock in a company I have almost zero control. I do get a vote, but I have almost no control. Now, if the people we hired to run that company created a massive conspiracy to break the law there is a good chance the company will go down and my stock will be worth $0. Did I deserve that? No. Is it right? Yes.

The people of Penn State are not directly responsible and I'm not trying to put them in jail. But does that mean that the Penn state football program, which was run by people so morally bankrupt that they covered up the crimes of a serial child rapist and allowed him to rape more boys in the $%%@%*% locker room, should get off without a hitch? No! The people in charge of the school (corporation) hired these people. The fans (shareholders) elevated football to where it was the most important thing at the school. The people in charge decided to cover up a child rape in order to appease those fans. And now it all comes tumbling down. Sure it sucks to be a Penn State fan (shareholder), but that's what happens when you buy in to a corrupt culture that elevates football above all else. Now the company should be allowed to fail and unfortunately the shareholders lose their money.

My problem with Penn State and with you is this, you think football is more important than it really is. It's a $%%@%*% game. And your thinking shows you would fit in great with those Penn state people because you feel that football is so important that shutting down their program for two years is an unspeakable tragedy. I think letting a child rapist have at kids is an unspeakable tragedy and that Penn State losing football for a few years is a punishment that, while minor, is necessary to recalibrate the mindset of the PSU faithful. They need to learn what is important in the grand scheme of things and winning a football game ain't it.

It bothers me that some of our fans feel the way you do because if there were enough of you the same thing could happen here. It's not fair that Penn State allowed this to happen, it's not fair that the fans created an atmosphere where it could happen. But it is fair that these people miss two years of football. It's just football! I'm not taking a step back when it comes to the rape of children, you need to step up.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

...Assistant coach using facilities to rape little boys, and having his bosses cover it up and enabling him, meh.<div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"></div><div>
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[HammerOfTheDogs]

Don't punish the athletes, coaches, fans, etc. who had nothing to with these crimes. Sandusky and Co. are getting the book thrown at them in the court of law (and rightfully so).

You haven't seen such will ignorance since they interviewed the Germans who lived near Concentration Camps.

 

[BR549.sixpack]

asdf

 

[MedDawg]

and any other sports program. Yes, child rape is much worse than anything else that has been done on college campuses or by players/coaches off-campus. But if the NCAA starts to punish programs for criminal acts, then we could get punishment in the future or could have in our recent past. Wouldn't be as serious as child rape, so we wouldn't get the death penalty, but doesn't mean we wouldn't get some sort of probation, etc. If the NCAA punishes Penn State for Sandusky or for a coverup, do you really think that the NCAA would stop there?<div>
</div><div>Drug use is a crime, andhow many times have I read on boards that posters knew that so-and-so player (like D.Walker) had a drug problem (or were selling drugs) while they were at State? If posters knew, then wouldn't the coaches know? And if the player was doing that while on the team, then the coaches would also be guilty of a coverup (again, not anywhere near as serious at Sandusky, but still guilty). Theoretically,the NCAA could punish State for any player having a second positive drug test, since that could be considered looking the other way after the first one. Or simply having multiple players over a span of time fail their first drug tests--we're not taking care of a problem, so we go on probation and lose scholarships. </div><div>
</div><div>If the NCAA had been going after criminal activity unrelated to competitive advantages over the past 20 years, there were enough serial crimes going on under Sherrill and Croom that the NCAA could have declared us in violation. </div><div>
</div><div>We don't want the NCAA having any more power to punish us or anyone else than they already have. Right now, our players are getting into much less trouble than under Sherrill or Croom, so maybe we are less of a target, but I still don't trust the NCAA to be fair.</div>

 

[jamdawg96]

Nobody is arguing for the "pro-rape" side. Based on the responses in this thread, most people who disagree with you are arguing against the purpose and application of the NCAA's death penalty above anything else.<div>
<div><div><div>What consequences will those who directlycommitted the crimes suffer as a result of the NCAA's death penalty?</div><div>
</div><div>There's a lack of institutional control here, but it doesn't involve athletes or boosters (see: SMU). Why punish them to that extent?</div><div>
</div><div>Using your logic, is every American citizen to blame for government crimes and cover-ups? We hired them, right?</div><div>
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