I'm done with you. Let me know when get over your bout with tunnel vision. Maybe Doc can suggest something that can enable you to see the bigger picture.
So it's looking like Wage Scale and Constitution Carry laws about
- Thread starter Mntneer
- Start date
I'm done with you. Let me know when get over your bout with tunnel vision. Maybe Doc can suggest something that can enable you to see the bigger picture.
Since I deal with it everyday, I know EXACTLY what eliminating prevailing wages means.
It means that the government stops setting the floor for wages and allows projects to be bid and built at the same price as every other business.
Actually it is the opposite. It is ending the process of subsidizing labor.
I bet nobody will work at Kroger when they Union negotiated 8 bucks an hour dries up.
Do you ever try to understand an issue prior to jumping in and making poisonous statements without familiarizing yourself with the facts? We have out of state ownership of coal mines because WV banking laws did not allow capital raising to fund the operations that was felt necessary to do the job. Therefore, adequate financing was put together primarily from New York and Philadelphia where large amounts of capital could be put together under one roof. Large profits were made and transferred out of state because of more liberal banking rules. These were large investors who invested to make a profit. You state that billions of profits were taken out of the state "at the expense of hard working middle class WVians". Those workers came to WV to get coal mining jobs, and they were paid wages for their hours of work. It is absolutely false to suggest those men were not paid their agreed wages for each day of work. As time went on, the workers were paid benefits that did not require their labor in exchange. Men and their families were provided health insurance, sickness benefits and pay for holidays not worked, and two weeks vacation pay, and other fringe benefits. The level of pay was greater than other industries in the state.
Some mine companies were great corporate neighbors in providing recreation and other attractions for the community. This was not a requirement for working, but the desire to participate in civic projects for the community. Some companies provided freebies for the schools and libraries and even made theatres available to the community.
Then add the taxes paid to local and state governments. With the current restrictions on the coal industry is causing the loss of tax income for the government. The first thing I read about is the loss of population and taxes to fund local schools. Every area is going to feel the loss of coal provided tax money, but it is already taking a hard hit on the number of teachers that can be financed. This is the first year and Mingo County has had a substantial decrease in teachers. I have been through it before and this is just the first year. Succeeding years get deeper cuts until education is barely functioning. Education is just trying to survive instead of the desired attempt to excel.
Areas with which we are familiar are going to feel the pain of our lost coal mining industry.
Historically, Democrat and union have connection. Democrat/union believe in the opposite . Union negotiates for more and more. Historically, they would sacrifice many jobs before they would sacrifice one of the gains they have acquired.Spoken like a true Democrat.
It's amazing that VA manages to survive without Wage Scale, whatever will WV do when a guy sweeping a floor doesn't get paid over 30 bucks an hour and nearly makes what a skilled carpenter does. [eyeroll]
Prevailing wage is nothing more than the state forcing pay rates on non union contractors so union contractors can compete. How anyone ever supported it is beyond me.
The latest incarnation of the law has created some insane rates as well. Ultimately the tax payers pay it, it increases the cost of projects and doesn't create the level playing field that they want us to think it does.
Yes, because we should have the public schools, public buildings, bridges, tunnels, highways, etc. built by untrained craftsmen making 12 bucks an hour...and everything goes to **** in a few years and you end up spending twice as much to get everything corrected the second and third time...and those guys making 12 bucks an hour can't afford to raise a family on that wage so they end up on food stamps and other assistance any way.
Brilliant plan.
Can you imagine if NASA hired the lowest bidder with no minimum training required for the manufacturers, fabricators and contractors on their projects? You think we would have made it to the moon safely?
[laughing]
Spoken like someone who has never managed a project in their life. I mean that logic is pathetic. I guess you cant have supervisors and inspectors on site unless you overpay for labor. Brilliant. Go back to sleep idiot.
You really don't understand the industry do you. If you think schools are being built by untrained craftsmen making 12 bucks an hour without wage scale then you're sorely mistaken. As I said, Virginia has no wage scale and you won't find schools, bridges and tunnels being built like ****.
No one, union or not, makes only 12 bucks an hour if they're skilled labor, no one. Also, the wage scale law only sets wages, not the level of craftsmanship you find on a project.
You also have to follow plans and specs and the inspectors are not going to let something slide.
What is more amazing were those stop and slow sign holders who were knocking down 40 buck per hour on road work jobs.
Wow, you really are a union shill.
Take out the union aspect with the higher than required wages and minimum labor requirements and you can hire less people and pay them more. That's how we ran the unions out of our family business.
The thing that I hate about unions is the attitude of "no, you can't do that, that's ____'s job". And if _____ isn't there, you still can't do it, you have to wait until ____ can get to it. It's stupid and introduces ridiculous inefficiencies.
I worked as a machinist for a short time, my lathe was getting full of metal shavings so I got the wheelbarrow and shovel to start cleaning it out, and GOT MY *** CHEWED. That was "Joe's" job. But "Joe" was busy doing something else so I had to just stand there and wait for 30-45 minutes until "Joe" was free.
I don't have as much of an issue with collective bargaining to try to get better benefits and whatnot, but when do things like this to the company you're working for, you're raising their costs unnecessarily by reducing efficiency. Not good for the long run, as we have seen.
I agree. I'm all for trying a new direction in this state. I'm fine with RTW and PW adjustments, but the biggest change we need to make is in our thinking of coal. It's time we bury that corpse and actually have a forward thinking legislature. I'm not holding my breath.
Two construction entrances at a school project years ago here in WV, gates separated by feet. The gate of the right was added a few months into the job, at the expense of the county school board, when a plumber's union complained about their members using the same construction entrance as everyone else. Money pissed away for no damn reason.
Beside coal, where does WV have advantage over other states in these industries? To my knowledge, there have been no restrictions placed on any industry that wishes to relocate or develop in WV. The opportunity to do so is wide open for anyone who wants to come in.
WV coal is pretty good stuff. That is the only industry that investors are drawn too. How do we bury that corpse. Smart ***? Yes, we have heard the argument all our lives that we need diversity and prepare to move away from a non-renewable resource. I do not question the desire or thinking regarding the non renewable, but no one has made inroads to that replacement industry. Where can we compete and have an advantage? I do not see where we can offer a better deal to any industry to attract them.
We are always near the bottom in business climate polls. Clearly we are, at a minimum, persuading businesses not to come in by our actions and laws.
Of course that is true. But how does it enhance chances of improvement when you remove the only advantage we have over competitors? I just cannot see removing the one advantage we have in the quiver prematurely.