So we're ranked #32 in recruiting so far

[SignalToNoise]

I'm not saying don't care. I'm saying we aren't doing anything most people didn't predict us to anyway. I said struggle to get to 6-6, guess what, that's where we are. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back here, but my gosh, if that was your prediction (Cadaver), then why are you upset when it comes true?

I agree the recruiting stuff is troublesome, but again, the company line was that we do a great job of player evaluation and we aren't that concerned with recruiting stars. Why did that change all of a sudden?

My take on that is its good to be great at player evaluation. Get some steals like a Banks or McKinney, but you want to get those steals along with your sure fire studs.

Put another way, reel in the big fish and find the diamonds to really round out the class. I just don't think anyone can honestly say you can field a great team out of nothing but hidden gems.

 

[LandArchDawg]

Let's make the crapstorm even more complete and have all our OVs on Egg Bowl week.

 

[Drebin]

What are you going to say when he comes in and immediately picks up and flips a handful of 4 and 5* talent that isn't giving us a chance right now because they hate Mullen?

Kinda getting tired of your ********. You have zero evidence that Hud is going to come in and flip anything. You are constantly speaking of his contacts and all that, but unless you've got a time machine made from a Delorian, or a functioning crystal ball, you don't know **** about ****.

I'm anxiously awaiting your 12 paragraph response. Flame away.

 

[LandArchDawg]

I agree, something isn't right.

 

[HD6]

We have been to three straight bowl games and have a pretty good chance at a fourth. Define compete.

 

[UIUCDog]

Me and mine? I didn’t create jack ****.

I was just giving the obvious answer to your question.

 

[cheewgumm]

Next year(with that schedule), if we win 6 and go to a bowl, are we competing?

At that point would you say we need to start looking or no?

If yes, then why?

We have been to three straight bowl games and have a pretty good chance at a fourth. Define compete.

 

[CadaverDawg]

I said struggle to get to 6-6, guess what, that's where we are. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back here, but my gosh, if that was your prediction (Cadaver), then why are you upset when it comes true?

I'm guessing that you are just choosing to ignore the 10 times I've addressed this in the past week, because it doesn't fit your message.

Yes, I predicted 5-7 or 6-6, but as I said a thousand times, I expected us to be a much better team than we were last year, but that our schedule would keep us from getting a better record than 6-6. I expected a lot of close losses to the big guys in the conference, and blow out wins against the Bowling greens and UK's. I expected Dan to have a fire lit under himself and his team and for us to execute for 4 quarters and regain the relentless effort that we lost 2+ years ago.

It amazes me how many of our fans say "to hell with what we look like on the field. As long as the record at year end says 6-6". It is not all about wins and losses guys. Open your eyes to what you are seeing on the field, and ask yourself the following questions...

Are we playing hard for 4 quarters?
Do we have a good gameplan going in to games?
Are our coaches making adjustments in game?
Are we using the best personnel? (Devon bell)
Are we looking undisciplined? (Penalties like nickoe's)
Are we more competitive with the best teams on our schedule? (LSU by 30, OKSt by 18) ?
Are we taking care of business like we should against the weak teams? (BG and UK?)
Are we recruiting at a higher level each year?

Now, take the record out of the equation and ask yourself those questions. I'm not saying some of them might not be good answers...but most are not. This is the type of **** that shouldn't be happening in year 5.

And now if we underperform next year we will still win 6 games, and everybody will say "At MSU you don't fire a coach that goes to a bowl, EVAHHH!" So we will be falling further from relevant but masking it with 6 easy wins. And then when we finally do fire him, there will be no Hudspeth more than likely, and we will be stuck with a Rick Ray football hire.

At some point you have to quit being blinded by the cupcake wins, and start seeing what's happening on the field. The writing is on the wall, and it will take a win over SC or A&M + Ark and OM to convince me otherwise.

just one mans opinion though, so I can respect the Mullen camp's views. I just agree to disagree, and above is why.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Problem with replacing linemen is they have sucked donkey balls at recruiting O-linemen.

 

[MaronMatters]

Are we playing hard for 4 quarters?
Do we have a good gameplan going in to games?
Are our coaches making adjustments in game?

The most points we have scored in the second half this year was 17, and that was against the mighty Trojans of Troy. That's sickening. Just on that fact alone, how some people don't see a problem with this staff just blows my mind.

There were two games where we didn't even score in the second half - OSU (for 3 quarters) and BG...How the hell does that happen? How do you only score 7 against KY in the second half, too?

 

[CadaverDawg]

The most points we have scored in the second half this year was 17, and that was against the mighty Trojans of Troy. That's sickening. Just on that fact alone, how some people don't see a problem with this staff just blows my mind.

There were two games where we didn't even score in the second half - OSU (for 3 quarters) and BG...How the hell does that happen? How do you only score 7 against KY in the second half, too?

+1

^This guy gets it^

 

[engie]

Kinda getting tired of your ********. You have zero evidence that Hud is going to come in and flip anything. You are constantly speaking of his contacts and all that, but unless you've got a time machine made from a Delorian, or a functioning crystal ball, you don't know **** about ****.

I'm anxiously awaiting your 12 paragraph response. Flame away.

Firstly, go 17 yourself.

Secondly, if someone throws out a hypothetical situation where Hudspeth sucks or would otherwise be unsuccessful here -- I can damn sure respond with a hypothetical where he is immediately successful and better than what we have. That's literally 3rd grade reading comprehension. Simple fact -- anyone doubting his ability to recruit here in the VERY immediate sense is either disconnected as 17 -- or protecting an agenda.

It doesn't take a crystal ball right now to see that what we're doing isn't working for **** -- and that what Mark is doing at Louisiana Lafayette is literally setting the woods afire. He's highly likely to finish the year with a team that's more highly ranked than we are in every computer metric you can find.

So, "Hud sucks" hypothetical = Drebin fine.
"Hud is better" hypothetical = Drebin goes full retard.
No agenda**

 

[HD6]

I always feel "I think we will be better even if the record doesn't show" is a ridiculous statement. We weren't national champions last year. If we were better, we should be able to win more games. I never thought we'd be better. I thought we'd be worse, so that's why I'm not losing my mind.

We only beat Kentucky by 13 last year. We only scored 7 points in the second half last year, against a much worse Kentucky team.

There are definitely some concerns about where we are headed. But I think that next year, with Dak as the full time starter, with our young receivers having another year under the belts, with our incredibly young defense bringing almost everybody back, I think we'll push for 9 wins. If we struggle, I agree that it would be difficult to fire Mullen if he still puts us in a bowl game. But right now, we are exactly where I'd thought we would be, so I'm not stressing about it.

 

[HD6]

It would be incredibly disappointing to win less than 8 next season, but it would also be difficult to fire him, unless we, as engie has said, have a contract signed by Hudspeth ready to go. If we fire Mullen after a bowl, and Hudspeth turns us down, then we end up making an Ogreron style hire.

 

[cheewgumm]

Exactly!!!! so you too expect more than 6 wins against crappy teams and a crappy bowl ? The only question is how long as a fan will you put up with it?

It would be incredibly disappointing to win less than 8 next season, but it would also be difficult to fire him, unless we, as engie has said, have a contract signed by Hudspeth ready to go. If we fire Mullen after a bowl, and Hudspeth turns us down, then we end up making an Ogreron style hire.

 

[00Dawg]

*Shrug* We all know the UM sites are used as recruiting hype tools by their school, while ours play around the edges and fish for tidbits. There could be visits Gene and Paul don't know about, or we really could be saving them all for later.
Anyway, like I said, almost 3/4s of our OVs last year took place in December, January, and February. Throw in the Bracky effect this season, and that number can only go up.

 

[engie]

Hud U=#88

Petrino's WKU=#100 or dead last in the survey.

Something to think about

Petrino can't recruit. That's been well-established at this point. But like Pinkel, his system allows success without necessarily elite recruiting.

Freeze's class at Arky St=#106. The one he and Malzahn shared was rated higher -- but 22 of the 29 commitments were Malzahn's

 

[engie]

I always feel "I think we will be better even if the record doesn't show" is a ridiculous statement. We weren't national champions last year. If we were better, we should be able to win more games. I never thought we'd be better. I thought we'd be worse, so that's why I'm not losing my mind.

We only beat Kentucky by 13 last year. We only scored 7 points in the second half last year, against a much worse Kentucky team.

There are definitely some concerns about where we are headed. But I think that next year, with Dak as the full time starter, with our young receivers having another year under the belts, with our incredibly young defense bringing almost everybody back, I think we'll push for 9 wins. If we struggle, I agree that it would be difficult to fire Mullen if he still puts us in a bowl game. But right now, we are exactly where I'd thought we would be, so I'm not stressing about it.

You make a good argument -- outside the Kentucky example. We dominated that game on the road last year -- and took a knee on the goal line at the end to "keep the score close". While it took a tremendous stop in 2013 to not lose the game at home.

Kentucky on road 2012:


Kentucky home 2013:


The reality is -- there was a tremendous difference between those two games even if the scoreboard didn't show it.

 

[HD6]

Next year, I do. I don't know how long I'd put up with it. But my expectations have to not be met first.

 

[johnson86-1]

Did you think this was a game we could win back in August?

This seems idiotic. Why we would judge wins/losses by how we projected teams to be in August versus judging them by how good the teams actually are. By your standard, isn't the Ole miss last year that much worse; sure, UM ended up winning 6 games and being better than mediocre, but what matters is they were expectted to be a three win team in August? If Bob Stoops had set the world on fire at UK and turned them into a top 10 team that Mullen lost to, would you really ***** at Mullen because he lost to a team that was projected to suck in August?

The reality is that none of the remaining games on MSU's schedule except for Arkansas would be unforgivable losses. But Mullen has **** the bed for most of the season. He needs to do something in the remaining games to make up for it. Showing up prepared and playing hard every game that's not a cupcake is not a lot to ask for and I think it's pretty reasonable for people to be pissed at Mullen's performance so far. If he beats a team with a pulse for the first time in two seasons, I think people will feel a lot better. There's no reason he can't do this, but until he does, why would you not be pissed.

 

[UIUCDog]

I would totally buy into your line of thinking IF I knew that Hudspeth would still be at ULALa next season.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

Would a decent coach (Hud or otherwise) take a job somewhere with

very few resources compared to the rest of the conference, who will fire one of their most successful coaches ever on a whim?

One of the big draws of MSU is the safety net of having to really 17ing deserve it to get fired. If we go around firing coaches with winning records, who would take the job?

 

[HD6]

The thing with Hudspeth is I don't think he's going to leave this season for a Texas or USC job. He may replace who gets those jobs, which means jumping to MSU would be a lateral move at worst, and explainable.

 

[dawgstudent]

**Thanks for the reply Bob Carskadon.

 

[Palos verdes]

I think this type of comment is incredibly dumb.

For instance, since Kentucky is recruiting better than us, as is Ole miss, and even Arkansas and Vandy....does that mean next year and the next when they are all favored over us that we should expect to lose since it's not a game "we're expected to win"?

I guess at some point when everyone in the SEC passes us by, the excuses will either run out, or people like you will be saying "guys, we weren't favored in a single SEC game, so we won the 4 games we were supposed to win against the SWAC....no other Coach in our history has won all of the games he's supposed to win like Mullen!!!1!"

Where does the "he is beating who he's supposed to beat" **** stop? At what point is he supposed to beat some better teams in this league? I've never seen a fan base with such ****** expectations in my life.

im not thinking we'll win a championship, but I'm expecting us to beat and out recruit Kentucky and Vandy every year, and Arkansas most years. And I'm expecting us to not have to go into every season and already know which games we will win. It's clear now....if they have a pulse, we lose. If they suck...we win, but it may be a nail biter. That's high expectations there*

^^Excellent post^^ We can let our expectations be dictated by whether or not we're underdogs.

 

[Arloguthrie]

what Mark is doing at Louisiana Lafayette is literally setting the woods afire.

Is he REALLY setting fire to the forests of Lafayette, or is this another Animal Farm allegory?

 

[cheewgumm]

Ok, then what you are saying is that if we schedule 4 easy OOC wins and beat

Kentucky, then find one more. So, essentially, you are "demanding" that our coach go 2-6 in teh SEC every year, and we should NEVER fire him?

Is that what you are saying?

very few resources compared to the rest of the conference, who will fire one of their most successful coaches ever on a whim?

One of the big draws of MSU is the safety net of having to really 17ing deserve it to get fired. If we go around firing coaches with winning records, who would take the job?

 

[Xenomorph]

Do stars and rankings matter? *

*

 

[engie]

very few resources compared to the rest of the conference, who will fire one of their most successful coaches ever on a whim?

One of the big draws of MSU is the safety net of having to really 17ing deserve it to get fired. If we go around firing coaches with winning records, who would take the job?

Would a big name coach come here under the circumstance that we fired Mullen this year? Probably not. If we get rid of Mullen without a total crash and burn -- and don't already have Hud or someone else to replace him -- we are facing an Orgeron situation.

That said, why do we have to still be that "poor ole MSU with low pressure to win"? I don't want our DRAW to be "low pressure". That breeds contentment and underperformance, which is exactly what we're dealing with right now.

We're 9 months away from becoming one of the 30 richest athletics departments in the country...At some point, we've got to start acting like it...

 

[engie]

Is he REALLY setting fire to the forests of Lafayette, or is this another Animal Farm allegory?

Damn, literallypolice will definitely see it now**

 

[cheewgumm]

Pllus, the question is where do you draw the line on the safety net. I'm trying to make the case that 6 (when you schedule 4 guaranteed wins and Kentucky is your East permanent opponent) is too low.

Would a big name coach come here under the circumstance that we fired Mullen this year? Probably not. If we get rid of Mullen without a total crash and burn -- and don't already have Hud or someone else to replace him -- we are facing an Orgeron situation.

That said, why do we have to still be that "poor ole MSU with low pressure to win"? I don't want our DRAW to be "low pressure". That breeds contentment and underperformance.

We're 9 months away from becoming one of the 30 richest athletics departments in the country...At some point, we've got to start acting like it...

 

[was21]

You nailed it...thanks. So enjoy the season...year after year. I decided to to that and it's much more enjoyable...AND it's not settling for mediocrity.

 

[Drebin]

Firstly, go 17 yourself.

Secondly, if someone throws out a hypothetical situation where Hudspeth sucks or would otherwise be unsuccessful here -- I can damn sure respond with a hypothetical where he is immediately successful and better than what we have. That's literally 3rd grade reading comprehension. Simple fact -- anyone doubting his ability to recruit here in the VERY immediate sense is either disconnected as 17 -- or protecting an agenda.

It doesn't take a crystal ball right now to see that what we're doing isn't working for **** -- and that what Mark is doing at Louisiana Lafayette is literally setting the woods afire. He's highly likely to finish the year with a team that's more highly ranked than we are in every computer metric you can find.

So, "Hud sucks" hypothetical = Drebin fine.
"Hud is better" hypothetical = Drebin goes full retard.
No agenda**

Show me where I said Hudspeth sucks. Show me where I said Dan is excelling. You are projecting, and you aren't very good at it.

To start with, the original point was a hypothetical. Your response was a statement of how Hud would be flipping recruits. That's what I was responding to. What did you make on the english section of the ACT? Your comment dismissing anyone who doubts Hud's immediate impact here as disconnected or having an agenda is ridiculous. You have no way of knowing he will be successful, just as nobody else can say for sure he wouldn't be. You're the only one here with an agenda.

My whole point was that what Hudspeth is doing at Lafayette doesn't ensure success here, no more than Bobby Wallace's success followed him to Temple. Am I frustrated with Mullen at times? Of course. But, Jesus, your obsession with Hudspeth is frightening. IF we can Mullen, and IF we hire him, I will be behind him. Until then, I'm going to hope Mullen turns it around.

If you put half the energy in doing something to support the program as you put into shitting all over it, you might add some value to the discussion.

 

[CadaverDawg]

This Drebin/Engie debate should be 10-11 pages of fun...

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

You not playing the C34.2 game. Target now is Mullenstansbury.

 

[engie]

Show me where I said Hudspeth sucks. Show me where I said Dan is excelling. You are projecting, and you aren't very good at it.

Arguing against my point shows your hand. It's not projecting -- it's comprehending.

To start with, the original point was a hypothetical.

Correct.
"And when Jesus Hudspeth comes and the same thing more than likely happens again what do you say then?"

Your response was a statement of how Hud would be flipping recruits. That's what I was responding to.

Do you understand what a hypothetical is?
"What are you going to say when he comes in and immediately picks up and flips a handful of 4 and 5* talent that isn't giving us a chance right now because they hate Mullen?"
My hypothetical was structured EXACTLY like the original hypothetical with the intent of being the yin to it's yang -- with the only difference being that I moved that "what are you going to say" from the end to the beginning.

Of course, an "English" prodigy such as yourself would understand that discussion of ANYTHING that hasn't happened yet is, by very definition, hypothetical.

What did you make on the english section of the ACT?

A 31. What does that have to do with this thread?

Oxymoron - Calling out "English" aptitude while failing to be cognizant of the fact that "READING" aptitude is what's actually applicable. I only made a 28 in that one. I "struggled" with that section in comparison to the other 3 because I'm a slow reader with a high retention rate and the clock was an issue for me.

Your comment dismissing anyone who doubts Hud's immediate impact here as disconnected or having an agenda is ridiculous. You have no way of knowing he will be successful, just as nobody else can say for sure he wouldn't be. You're the only one here with an agenda.

What comment are you referring to? Oh -- that's right -- the hypothetical. STILL.

My whole point was that what Hudspeth is doing at Lafayette doesn't ensure success here, no more than Bobby Wallace's success followed him to Temple.

It's a big difference. If we were talking about hiring Hudspeth out of North Alabama -- or talking about hiring Steve Campbell as our head coach today, I would agree with you. There is no such thing as assured success. Ever. But Hudspeth today is FAR more of a sure thing than Mullen was when we hired him.

Am I frustrated with Mullen at times? Of course. But, Jesus, your obsession with Hudspeth is frightening.

"MY obsession"? Hudspeth's name WOULD NOT have come up in this thread AT ALL if I hadn't been called out. I'm not starting threads -- and I'm not carrying his name into inapplicable threads. If you were as good as you profess at "English**" you would see that the majority of this Hudspeth "obsession" is being driven by others' "obsession" over my opinion.

Mullen sucking -- and my preference of Hudspeth being the next coach -- are not mutually inclusive.

IF we can Mullen, and IF we hire him, I will be behind him. Until then, I'm going to hope Mullen turns it around.

Sounds good. Gene's page is that way** ---->

If you put half the energy in doing something to support the program as you put into shitting all over it, you might add some value to the discussion.

Go ahead and link me to all this "value" you are adding to the discussion?**

Got to love the ole "if you aren't a sheep and in total support of everything that happens, you are what's wrong with the fanbase!!1!1" mindset.

 

[121Josey]

No OFFICIAL visits yet

The point is that we have NOTHING on the books WHILE we are getting our clocks cleaned by OM in recruiting... Feeds the perception that Mullen has quit -- or at very least is on cruise control. They've had 10 4 and 5* visitors already...

State has had players on campus. State just hasn't OFFICIALLY paid for it.

 

[engie]

State has had players on campus. State just hasn't OFFICIALLY paid for it.

Everyone understands this part...

For a team recruiting as crappily as we are right now, it just doesn't appear that we are trying very hard. That was my point.

 

[121Josey]

State is never going to be a contender for championships, not with the way the SEC West is right now. Theres the chance for some 8 or 9 win seasons mixed in with 5 and 6 win seasons.

Why even bring up the champioinship contender argument? The SEC West will not always be like it is. These tenured coaches will leave or the balance will shift back to the East.

You're right that there is a possibility for 8 or 9 wins. But those years are dependent SOLELY on the schedule, not game preparation and execution. State has to wait for someone else to fall before it can rise. That's the problem.

 

[diddog]

Our success in the past five years has been due to the 2009 recruiting class

which as I have said over and over, is the best ever in MSU history and would be reranked as a top 10 national class for NFL talent.
As subsequent classes came in and were much weaker, and the 2009 class began to move on to the pros (Cox first, then others), we have gotten weaker and weaker as a team. No surprise. We are still left with Gabe Jackson on the OL from 2009, by far our best OL, and he will move on to the NFL after this year.
When we are consistently at the bottom of the SEC in talent, we are not going to win the SEC. Period. In 2009, we out recruited most SEC teams. Maybe top 3 in the SEC. Now we 13 or 14th in the SEC. Not going to get it done.
I think Dan Mullen and Les Koenning are good coaches of the spread option. They are very experienced at that offense and they are not good at doing pro style. If that is the offense that you like, they are good coaches of it. But they are not miracle workers. Mullen makes some bad decisions like all coaches (especially on fourth down), but he on field coaching is not his downfall. He is just not a good enough recruiter. You do have to be an excellent talent evaluator as well but I don't see that either looking at our current NFL talent.