So, what about the just-released studies on CTE (brain damage).......
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Most of you are overreacting or buying into fearmongering about them killing the game. From 1900-1905 there were 45 deaths in the sport. Let that sink in. It got so bad the President (Teddy R.) had to call meetings to improve the safety of the game because schools were actually shuttering their programs and the game was dying. Some people (guess who, old people who don't play the game) wanted it to stay as it was and had that crappy Rocky IV Drago "if he dies, he dies" attitude. Thankfully logic prevailed and they made the game safer and it survived.
This will essentially be no different. People can either dig their heels in and stay on the side of ignorance and tradition or they can work towards a solution that will not only keep the game alive but improve the safety of the participants.
This will essentially be no different. People can either dig their heels in and stay on the side of ignorance and tradition or they can work towards a solution that will not only keep the game alive but improve the safety of the participants.
It is a risk that you take. I played from little league through college and would not change that even if I knew the risks as portrayed by the studies. I played in a time when you lead with your facemask to tackle. As far as I know I am fine. Never had a serious concussion. Did have my bell rung but never blacked out or lost consciousness. I firmly believe that you don't hide the possibility of risk but you don't do away with the game. If an individual fears they will get brain damage just don't play football.
The point is this is what they currently do and rec league numbers are plummeting because parents choose their child's health over the sport. Changes MUST be made to secure the future of the sport.
Exactly. Maybe I am unique in this, maybe not, but I just do not understand the people who think that things are and should be the way that they did it or the way that they think it should be. Things evolve and improve. Its not or shouldnt be "my way or the highway." Just because you did "this or that" in your hayday, or did something different doesn't mean that every other way should be talked bad about or denegrated. We get it, everyone did things SO much better in the past, and everyone was a superstar in that area so their way of doing things was so great.
And the thing that bothers me the most about some of the comments is calling kids and/or their parents wusses because of a health concern. Just because someone raises a question or concern doesnt mean they are any less, or even against it, they are just trying to gather as much information they can to make a conclusion. And caring is NEVER a bad thing
There is no kid or parent of kid that should let there kid play football if they have a health concern. Chances are if you have to ask yourself will I get hurt ? Then you shouldn't play. Football is for tough kids and parents of kids that are willing to take some chance that they could get hurt. Football is a physical sport.
Should parents be more concerned about girls soccer? More concussions per amount of players than football. And , why are they not wearing protective headgear? All team Sports are physical in some way. We have a linemen that got hurt in track , and doesn't even run in track. What about a pitcher on the mound that takes a line drive back at him ? Without protective headgear? Happens every year somewhere. Football always gets the most attention because it is the most violent man to man contact. But the unprotected sports can be just violent without protection. My definition of a wuss is a person who signs up for a sport knowing the risk, and then wants to complain after when they get hurt. Nobody including me wants to stop the evolution of better protective equipment . But football is football. If you are worried don't sign up.
Should parents be more concerned about girls soccer? More concussions per amount of players than football. And , why are they not wearing protective headgear? All team Sports are physical in some way. We have a linemen that got hurt in track , and doesn't even run in track. What about a pitcher on the mound that takes a line drive back at him ? Without protective headgear? Happens every year somewhere. Football always gets the most attention because it is the most violent man to man contact. But the unprotected sports can be just violent without protection. My definition of a wuss is a person who signs up for a sport knowing the risk, and then wants to complain after when they get hurt. Nobody including me wants to stop the evolution of better protective equipment . But football is football. If you are worried don't sign up.
I agree with most of this, but calling them wusses goes WAY to far. So a kid at 18 enlists in the military, they are a wuss because they complain when they are hurting and tired? They knew going in they would be, so since they knew they COULD be hurt and tired and complain they are a wuss?
Yes everyone going in knows there is a chance of injury, but the part you seem to leave out that not everyone gets hurt, and that everything has a risk. Let's use an example not physical related. You want to get into the stock market to make money, you do a ton of research, find a broker, and find a stock that has risk but big gains. You lose a lot of money, when you complain to friends and family you are a wuss? Like I said you aren't factoring everything in, nobody goes into something EXPECTING the WORST
We have beat this in the ground and everyone has made sound points. I agree we need to continue to improve safety in all sports; however, I do believe football is unfairly persecuted, because its considered to be a barbaric sport.
Today on twitter I read an article about girls lacrosse and head injuries. This is a sport with little or no contact allowed. According to the article they have more concussions per participant than football. Guess how concussions occur? Inadvertent contact with STICKS. Do you think they have mandated helmets. No, they mandated what type of helmet is legal if you choose to wear one. This is both stupid and sick.
Im not saying we should not protect players by continuing to improve helmet material and adopt new safety rules, but lets be real here. People are being paid big bucks through grants to study this stuff and equipment companies are getting fat every other year when alleged improvements are made. Teams have to buy new equipment. Its big business at its best. The latest and greatest helmets have not significantly changed concussion rates. Tackling rules have. This my friends will end football as schools will not be able to to keep up with or afford the demand on safety.
I said this earlier and will repeat again. Unless a pad is placed between the brain and the skull you will not stop a concussion. Think about it this way. There is space between the brain and skull to allow for growth and swelling if needed. You cant stop the ricochet.
When is the last time you have heard of a football player having a cracked skull or even swelling. The helmets are really as safe as they can be. They cant get any heavier, because then you will have inadvertent kneck injuries.
Let me say I agree that a kid or parent should not be shamed if they quit due to fear for their safety; however, we should not question those who opt to play or desire for the game continue as is.
I told DP today I heard a guy griping about the dangers of football and how they should stop the game. Five minutes later he was talking about how awesome the last UFC
card was. This is the contradiction that kills me.
Gunz respect your example, but let me partially support Hamspears post by using a real life example. Prior to a high school softball game an umpire tells a player to remove her earings (jewelry is illegal) . At the pregame conference the coach states his players are legally and properly equipped. The girl in question gets hit in the helmet and she is bleeding. No, its not the helmets fault she did not take out her earrings and she has a puncture wound. Her parents file a suit against the umpire and is awarded ten thousand dollars. By rule Its not the umpires problem its the coaches and player.
Go figure! Rant over. Have a blessed night.
Today on twitter I read an article about girls lacrosse and head injuries. This is a sport with little or no contact allowed. According to the article they have more concussions per participant than football. Guess how concussions occur? Inadvertent contact with STICKS. Do you think they have mandated helmets. No, they mandated what type of helmet is legal if you choose to wear one. This is both stupid and sick.
Im not saying we should not protect players by continuing to improve helmet material and adopt new safety rules, but lets be real here. People are being paid big bucks through grants to study this stuff and equipment companies are getting fat every other year when alleged improvements are made. Teams have to buy new equipment. Its big business at its best. The latest and greatest helmets have not significantly changed concussion rates. Tackling rules have. This my friends will end football as schools will not be able to to keep up with or afford the demand on safety.
I said this earlier and will repeat again. Unless a pad is placed between the brain and the skull you will not stop a concussion. Think about it this way. There is space between the brain and skull to allow for growth and swelling if needed. You cant stop the ricochet.
When is the last time you have heard of a football player having a cracked skull or even swelling. The helmets are really as safe as they can be. They cant get any heavier, because then you will have inadvertent kneck injuries.
Let me say I agree that a kid or parent should not be shamed if they quit due to fear for their safety; however, we should not question those who opt to play or desire for the game continue as is.
I told DP today I heard a guy griping about the dangers of football and how they should stop the game. Five minutes later he was talking about how awesome the last UFC
card was. This is the contradiction that kills me.
Gunz respect your example, but let me partially support Hamspears post by using a real life example. Prior to a high school softball game an umpire tells a player to remove her earings (jewelry is illegal) . At the pregame conference the coach states his players are legally and properly equipped. The girl in question gets hit in the helmet and she is bleeding. No, its not the helmets fault she did not take out her earrings and she has a puncture wound. Her parents file a suit against the umpire and is awarded ten thousand dollars. By rule Its not the umpires problem its the coaches and player.
Go figure! Rant over. Have a blessed night.
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You seem like a good guy as most on here do, but I will have to say your example doesn't fit here, except to tell a story. Hammys stating that ones that know the risks and then get hurt are wusses. Please think about possible ways that people can get concussions in football, some people by illegal actions. I played football a long time, and I knew the risks, and probably played the price, BUT I certainly never went into a game or season think I was going to get hurt. I had an illegal hit on my that caused an injury, so yea I was mad. Just people people know the risks, doesn't mean if something happens to them they don't have the right to be upset or complain about it, and that certainly doesn't mean they are a wuss.
I just used a couple examples earlier, but in just about everything we as humans do there is an inherent risk, doesn't mean when the risk comes to fruition that we don't have the right to voice it. I dont agree with all the complaining either, but I certainly think that people have that right, and not be denigrated for it.
Think of it this way, just as an estimate (don't care to look up the numbers and they don't matter for this point), there are 5000 schools in USA, with an average of 40 on a team, that's 200,000 players. If there are 5000 concussions a year, that is 2.5%. So I think in those cases, they certainly have a right to be upset and complain to someone. Or take it out of the sports world (very athletic at times) but 2 people having fun in the sheets lol. They use protection which is supposed to be something like 98% effective. So the ones that the protection doesn't work, I certainly think they have the right to complain. There are so many examples like this.
My entire point is not calling them wusses. There are examples and I have also given plenty of examples of ways things have improved over time, and things that cause concussions that most people don't think about or dont realize
God bless everyone and let's hope for a safe season for everyone across this great nation
Gunz, I agree with you about the "wuss" part 100% and cannot argue any other thing you said. Your argument is sound and informative.
My point about the softball player was referring to Hamspears statement about complaining after the fact. Our current society thrives on blaming others. Parents and players should consider the risk before playing any sport. Yes, illegal hits and accidents happen and thats were the line needs to be drawn.
I have known since I started using smokeless tobacco that is has been proven to cause cancer, but like an idiot I still use it. I might be crazy, but I dont think I have the right to complain if something bad happens.
Can and should we continue to improve safety and make punishments stiffer for violations? Absolutely, but how far do we go with helmet improvements before it becomes finacially irresponsible. If the NFHS mandates the type of helmet (kevlar type) currently being studied I would simply say the sport is too dangerous and expensive to continue funding period. This is a game and not war.
Neither of us have the answer and there is no right or wrong, so I will sign off by saying thanks Gunz for debating this matter respectfully. Its very much appreciated.
My point about the softball player was referring to Hamspears statement about complaining after the fact. Our current society thrives on blaming others. Parents and players should consider the risk before playing any sport. Yes, illegal hits and accidents happen and thats were the line needs to be drawn.
I have known since I started using smokeless tobacco that is has been proven to cause cancer, but like an idiot I still use it. I might be crazy, but I dont think I have the right to complain if something bad happens.
Can and should we continue to improve safety and make punishments stiffer for violations? Absolutely, but how far do we go with helmet improvements before it becomes finacially irresponsible. If the NFHS mandates the type of helmet (kevlar type) currently being studied I would simply say the sport is too dangerous and expensive to continue funding period. This is a game and not war.
Neither of us have the answer and there is no right or wrong, so I will sign off by saying thanks Gunz for debating this matter respectfully. Its very much appreciated.
BN emphasized a solid point during our conversation yesterday. It's not the number of football players that accrue head injuries that is relevant, for comparison arguments. It's the percentage. I would guess that the average nationwide, of the number of players on a high school football team is around 40? Compare that to the average number of players on any other high school athletic team, including sideline and competitive cheer. I think you will see that football ranks around 5th in head injuries on a percentage basis.
Keep looking for safety improvements, but don't denigrate football with misleading information.
Keep looking for safety improvements, but don't denigrate football with misleading information.
I live for football. However, a possible result of the frequent news releases on the dangers of football and CTE:
high schools will start fielding 4 or maybe 5 boy's varsity basketball teams. Athletes of all sizes will switch over from football to basketball.
You can laugh now, but Sports Illustrated had a story about declining participation in high school football.............................. and that was 19 years-ago!
https://www.si.com/vault/1998/11/16...day-night-lights-will-simply-be-extinguished#
high schools will start fielding 4 or maybe 5 boy's varsity basketball teams. Athletes of all sizes will switch over from football to basketball.
You can laugh now, but Sports Illustrated had a story about declining participation in high school football.............................. and that was 19 years-ago!
https://www.si.com/vault/1998/11/16...day-night-lights-will-simply-be-extinguished#
It's amazing that now that CTE study results are being released, that no one who has power in the NCAA, the National Federation Of State High School Associations, the Virginia High School League, or the NFL has announced major changes in the sport. I guess it will only happen once a parent sues a school board or a university for damages to their son's brain by playing football. Football is a huge industry, and people are concerned about money, not the brains of football players.
It's chilling really. Does anyone in power even care? Are parents in denial? Whew.
If no major changes are going to happen in the rules, then someone needs to invent a new sport. The problem with that is that you don't make money by inventing a sport.
James Naismith never earned money or fame during his lifetime for inventing basketball.
No one really invented football, but Walter Camp is widely considered to be the most important figure in the development of American football. He also never earned money from developing it. He worked for a clock factory his entire life after graduating from college.
"Bank clerk Alexander Joy Cartwright—would codify a new set of rules that would form the basis for modern baseball." He apparently made no money from doing that.
It's chilling really. Does anyone in power even care? Are parents in denial? Whew.
If no major changes are going to happen in the rules, then someone needs to invent a new sport. The problem with that is that you don't make money by inventing a sport.
James Naismith never earned money or fame during his lifetime for inventing basketball.
No one really invented football, but Walter Camp is widely considered to be the most important figure in the development of American football. He also never earned money from developing it. He worked for a clock factory his entire life after graduating from college.
"Bank clerk Alexander Joy Cartwright—would codify a new set of rules that would form the basis for modern baseball." He apparently made no money from doing that.
http://www.maxpreps.com/news/WxYeGt...huts-down-junior-varsity-football-program.htm
Long Beach, CA Poly, which has had 60 (SIXTY!) players play in the NFL, has no JV team for the first time in 110 years.
Long Beach, CA Poly, which has had 60 (SIXTY!) players play in the NFL, has no JV team for the first time in 110 years.
So, what exactly are high school and college football coaches coaching for?
It can't be because they really have any concern for the welfare of the students they coach. I guess that no matter how much evidence comes out that football is bad for your body in several ways, they're going to say, "Not enough research has been done yet."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...00m-know-why-nflers-die-young-here-s-why-free
It can't be because they really have any concern for the welfare of the students they coach. I guess that no matter how much evidence comes out that football is bad for your body in several ways, they're going to say, "Not enough research has been done yet."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...00m-know-why-nflers-die-young-here-s-why-free
Not saying you are wrong or right, and you certainly are entitled to your opinion, but from all of your posts on this thread seems like you have an agenda and WANT football to stop. Which I don't understand, because you are posting on a football message board.
I will add my two cents.
1) I coach girls tennis. And even in girls tennis, I have had a player suffer a concussion in a match. But you know what I did? Even before concussion was diagnosed, I ruled her day done. Then we got her the trainer's attention. The trainer did what she does, explained to the parents what the situation was, and she was taken to a doctor for treatment. It took a few weeks to clear her to return to TENNIS.
2) None of these concussion protocols were in effect for any of the players whose brains are being dissected after their deaths. When proper protocols are followed, the brain has a better chance of being less affected by future chances of concussion. It could be 30 or 40 years before we know whether these new protocols will lessen the frequency of CTE. But we do know that none of these protocols were in place for the brains now being examined in these studies.
1) I coach girls tennis. And even in girls tennis, I have had a player suffer a concussion in a match. But you know what I did? Even before concussion was diagnosed, I ruled her day done. Then we got her the trainer's attention. The trainer did what she does, explained to the parents what the situation was, and she was taken to a doctor for treatment. It took a few weeks to clear her to return to TENNIS.
2) None of these concussion protocols were in effect for any of the players whose brains are being dissected after their deaths. When proper protocols are followed, the brain has a better chance of being less affected by future chances of concussion. It could be 30 or 40 years before we know whether these new protocols will lessen the frequency of CTE. But we do know that none of these protocols were in place for the brains now being examined in these studies.