So, you're saying there's a chance

[FreeDawg]

In today’s world, Baptists and other congregants of other churches mainly mega churches are worse hypocrites than the people who occasionally attend or don’t attend at all so I don’t see where they should be allowed to complain. Count me in as one who doesn’t attend and welcomes this change.

I 100% understand the spirit of your post because there is truth in it. That said, you can’t wait to be “perfect” to get involved. I used to stay away from church because I didn’t live well enough to go. I’m not going because I’m not a hypocrite thinking.

As I had kids I’ve slowly started going at least semi-regularly and now I’m a regular who is pretty involved. I’m Catholic now & I’ve found a great community where I can be my imperfect self and it’s fine. Being a masculine man is encouraged. One of my good friends/mentors is a Baptist minister and he summed it up great on this topic. He said Jesus started his disciples (aka the church) with commercial fishermen. If you know anything about how tough, rough, & flawed commercial fishermen are like I do, it really clicked for me. Today’s mantra of you have to be an effeminate sissy man who is perfect isn’t based in any historical church histor

I’m a bigger sinner historically than 99.9% of this board & I’m far from domesticated today but I’m not ashamed of going to church in fear of being a hypocrite. I wish more men had that revelation.

Sorry for being a lil ot

 

[TimberBeast]

Back in the 60's to the mid 80's my grandmother owned a liquor store in Meridian. She would have cases bagged up for a bootlegger coming from DeKalb since Kemper was dry. The guy was terrified when he was loading into his car because, at that time, you were limited on the amount you could purchase at once. It was comical watching him.

I worked at a liquor store in Oxford many years ago, the bootleggers would come in and buy a case of aristocrat vodka half pints or heaven hill half pints. I never really knew where they sold it.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

Can't wait for the Baptists in the senate to kill it but at least people are trying. And a 15.5% tax on orders? Jesus
View attachment 1184188

Alcohol Sales are still not allowed in most of Georgia before noon on Sunday including Atlanta Hartsfield Airport.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Alcohol Sales are still not allowed in most of Georgia before noon on Sunday including Atlanta Hartsfield Airport.

I'll be honest, I don't need a liquor store on Sunday and I doubt anyone without a problem does

 

[TimberBeast]

On the right side of the Coast you can head to Franklin Creek Road, take a left and be in Alabama in several minutes. Liquor store open all day long on Sunday. Been there a few times when I didn’t prepare on Saturday.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

I don't really care, but it does sound like a bunch of y'all are very poor planners. All these years I bought my beer/liquor on one of the other 6 days so I had it on Sunday. Pretty simple.

 

[Badon]

The whole no alcohol sales on Sunday has always been dumb as hell. If it is legal, adults should be able to buy it whenever they want

Agree. I’m a religious man but this is overreach.

 

[Badon]

Consistency is not their strong suit. Now self-righteous guffawing, on the other hand. . .

ETA: Seriously, though, it's not that it's a sin to buy or drink, but it is more of honoring a Sunday. Sunday's are reserved for rest and pious activities. That is the idea.

I believe Saturday is actually the sabbath, and a loooong time ago The Church made an administrative decision to change it to Sunday.

Then government tells us NO you must rest and honor the sabbath since we don’t like your legal lifestyle or your legal liquor store. It just doesn’t make human sense and may be a sin in and of itself (I’m no judge).

Can you imagine them telling the huge casino corporations in Biloxi they can’t be open on Sundays? And of course a liquor store or a dispensary would love to be open on a Sunday. It’s a prime weekend day. It’s not their choice to sit it out.

 

[ETK99]

I believe Saturday is actually the sabbath, and a loooong time ago The Church made an administrative decision to change it to Sunday.

Then government tells us NO you must rest and honor the sabbath since we don’t like your legal lifestyle or your legal liquor store. It just doesn’t make human sense and may be a sin in and of itself (I’m no judge).

Can you imagine them telling the huge casino corporations in Biloxi they can’t be open on Sundays? And of course a liquor store or a dispensary would love to be open on a Sunday. It’s a prime weekend day. It’s not their choice to sit it out.

Can you imagine if common sense was engaged and grocery stores etc. could sell liquor? If only there were places doing that already........

 

[bulldoghair]

and if you ask waiters church people are the worst tippers

Yes. The main driver is the fresh guilt/financial hit from “tithing” or handing over to their church 10% of their entire earnings that very morning. Many evangelical people leave church on Sunday feeling poorer, spiritually anxious, and unconsciously resentful. When the server brings the check two hours later, that resentment gets unconsciously transferred to thinking or subconsciously thinking- “I already gave to God today, why should I give more?” Or “I only gave God 10%, I’m not tipping or giving this waiter the same or more percent than I do for God”. Or at the very least they’re thinking about how much of their hard earned money they already paid out to their church that same morning, and every dollar counts as they live paycheck to paycheck in today’s world.

 

[bulldoghair]

I believe Saturday is actually the sabbath, and a loooong time ago The Church made an administrative decision to change it to Sunday.

Then government tells us NO you must rest and honor the sabbath since we don’t like your legal lifestyle or your legal liquor store. It just doesn’t make human sense and may be a sin in and of itself (I’m no judge).

Can you imagine them telling the huge casino corporations in Biloxi they can’t be open on Sundays? And of course a liquor store or a dispensary would love to be open on a Sunday. It’s a prime weekend day. It’s not their choice to sit it out.

Evangelicals and Seventh day Adventists ect arguing over Saturday vs Sunday- or even trying to force secular businesses to close- have completely missed the boat.
They’re still living under a shadow and trying to enforce a law that was fulfilled, on people who were never under it. The Sabbath was never about a day- it was always about a Person.

 

[MStateU]

Many evangelical people leave church on Sunday feeling poorer, spiritually anxious, and unconsciously resentful.

Wow, brother.

 

[onewoof]

If you're capable of being grateful (doubtful) you give tips and more. If you're not, you don't.

 

[bulldoghair]

US drinking rates hit new lows in 2025. Alcohol consumption is declining among younger adults like Gen Z and younger Millennials. I’m older and more and more Gen X are giving it up too, mainly for health reasons. I read where only 50% of 18-34 year olds report drinking which is down from 72% two decades ago. The alcohol industry has quietly lobbied to expand sales days/hours in many states, including MS to offset this. Combine this with the angle and argument their using for the loss of tax revenue to the other 45 states who sale liquor on Sundays. Opening up Sunday and direct customer shipping is a way to capture more market share from cross border buyers and convenience shoppers. It’s always about the money- tax dollars + the alcohol industry’s help push to offset the decline of their product.

 

[aspendawg]

Sell it on Sunday. Let people decide for themselves. Some folks don’t do religion at all, some do, and a lot of those who do are still human and messy. The idea that Sunday has to be alcohol-free feels like other people's moral preferences shoved into law. If you don’t want to drink on Sundays, awesome. But someones views or someones judgment shouldn’t erase my ability to buy something when I want it.

Ultimately this is about freedom and where we draw the line between personal choice and public enforcement. There is a strong argument against using the law to enforce private morality. As long as someone’s actions do not harm others, letting them make their own choices respects autonomy. Forcing a universal ban on Sunday sales is just one group’s moral standard becoming everyone else’s rules.

After a lot of discussions about childhood shame with my therapist I think my takeaway on this is that psychologically, prohibition and moralizing often do more harm than the thing being banned. Calling drinking sinful and making it taboo pushes behavior into secrecy and shame. People hide what they do, lie about it to others, and themselves instead of owning it and making healthier choices. I grew up in a dry county, and people wrapped that no alcohol rule around themselves like a psychological and moral blanket. The shame around a casual beer was heavier than the beer itself. My dad, the high school principal, would hide his beer (when he rarely had it) under a towel when certain friends of mine came over. That secrecy says way more about social pressure than about actual harm. None of these things I realized as a kid but it did always seemed odd and was my first internal battle with the hypocrisy of certain things I witnessed but we never talk about openly in the south (I know things have changed and your experience is different than mine).

Bottom line, normalize moderation, reduce shame, and keep personal morals personal. Don’t let someone’s Sunday piety become a universal veto on other people’s choices. Let Sunday be whatever people make of it, a day of rest, a Sunday Funday, or just another day to decide for yourself.

 

[johnson86-1]

I believe Saturday is actually the sabbath, and a loooong time ago The Church made an administrative decision to change it to Sunday.

Then government tells us NO you must rest and honor the sabbath since we don’t like your legal lifestyle or your legal liquor store. It just doesn’t make human sense and may be a sin in and of itself (I’m no judge).

Can you imagine them telling the huge casino corporations in Biloxi they can’t be open on Sundays? And of course a liquor store or a dispensary would love to be open on a Sunday. It’s a prime weekend day. It’s not their choice to sit it out.

Not sure about the dispensaries, but I think you'd get pretty mixed answers on whether liquor store owners want to be open on Sundays. The more successful ones probably do. Their marginal sales would probably outweigh the extra labor costs and the owners aren't the ones that have to do that labor. But the less successful ones, where the owner sits behind the counter 50 if not 60 hours a week already, I think they believe most of the Sunday sales just get pushed to Sunday and they don't lose much business in exchange for getting a full day off.

 

[johnson86-1]

Help a Mormon out with a question. Why is it okay to drink Monday through Saturday but not on Sunday. If it's a sin shouldn't be a sin 24/7? Sin is a sin regardless of the day. If it is not sinful during the week then the Baptist should not care if they get it on Sunday.

It has to do with politics more than viewing it as a sin, although that definitely affects the politics. We used to have Blue Laws that outlawed all sorts of business on a Sunday. Like into the 70's you couldn't have retail open on a Sunday. Not sure about how much of that was driven by wanting to force people to honor the sabbath versus making sure workers had the option to honor the sabbath. Retailers pushed back hard on blue laws. I think because the law already limited people to one liquor store, there just wasn't as much push back. It was basically a way to coordinate reduced competition. Have that less uniform position plus the animus of the baptists (we didn't even have local option to allow alcohol sales until the 60's), and the liquor ban remained after the other blue laws were repealed. Instead of baptists and bootleggers being in a coalition, it was the baptists and the liquor store owners.

 

[johnson86-1]

and if you ask waiters church people are the worst tippers

I really question how much of that is an age thing. Tipping has gone from 10% to 20% in a fairly short time frame. My grandfather tipped 10% until he died I think, which was well after 15% became the norm. He wasn't cheap, he just grew up with 10%. And I think the after church lunch crowd skews older. Probably doesn't explain all of that stereotype, but may explain a good portion of it.

 

[ETK99]

Yes. The main driver is the fresh guilt/financial hit from “tithing” or handing over to their church 10% of their entire earnings that very morning. Many evangelical people leave church on Sunday feeling poorer, spiritually anxious, and unconsciously resentful. When the server brings the check two hours later, that resentment gets unconsciously transferred to thinking or subconsciously thinking- “I already gave to God today, why should I give more?” Or “I only gave God 10%, I’m not tipping or giving this waiter the same or more percent than I do for God”. Or at the very least they’re thinking about how much of their hard earned money they already paid out to their church that same morning, and every dollar counts as they live paycheck to paycheck in today’s world.

 

[bulldoghair]

Wow, brother.

Did that hit too close home, brother? If so I’m sympathetic for you.

A server shouldn’t have to pay the emotional bill for bad theology. Amen?

Also, more irony is that a big majority of these same evangelicals that go out to eat after church, don’t believe you should work on Sunday. One prominent evangelical church goer told me one time that he was just “plundering the Egyptians” when going out to eat after church on Sundays. He was serious. At least he did have a justifiable reason or excuse that he had worked out in his mind in doing so (even if I think ridiculous)- most don’t even have that.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I really question how much of that is an age thing. Tipping has gone from 10% to 20% in a fairly short time frame. My grandfather tipped 10% until he died I think, which was well after 15% became the norm. He wasn't cheap, he just grew up with 10%. And I think the after church lunch crowd skews older. Probably doesn't explain all of that stereotype, but may explain a good portion of it.

I recall having friends/waitstaff in the 80's that would complain about the after church crowd being the most demanding and the worst tippers. I'm not sure why that is. Your scenario certainly has merit in explaining why it happens today. I was slinging nuggets at McDonald's making a solid $3.35/hr so I didn't have to worry about tips...

 

[bulldoghair]

Just slam that door, brother. That’s not disagreement- That’s recognition. Deep down you know exactly what I described is real.
Bad Sunday tips aren’t about stingy Christians. They’re about manipulative tithing theology that leaves people drained, anxious, and unconsciously resentful. And you just proved my point with your GIF better than I could explain.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Did that hit too close home, brother? If so I’m sympathetic for you.

A server shouldn’t have to pay the emotional bill for bad theology. Amen?

Also, more irony is that a big majority of these same evangelicals that go out to eat after church, don’t believe you should work on Sunday. One prominent evangelical church goer told me one time that he was just “plundering the Egyptians” when going out to eat after church on Sundays. He was serious. At least he did have a justifiable reason or excuse that he had worked out in his mind in doing so (even if I think ridiculous)- most don’t even have that.

I think you've been hurt by church or church members at some point in your life. Sadly, I'm not surprised by this and can understand your cynicism...I can also imagine someone trying to justify their contradictory behavior. I don't think many evangelicals think much about working on Sunday any longer other than if it interferes with their ability to worship.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Just slam that door, brother. That’s not disagreement- That’s recognition. Deep down you know exactly what I described is real.
Bad Sunday tips aren’t about stingy Christians. They’re about manipulative tithing theology that leaves people drained, anxious, and unconsciously resentful. And you just proved my point with your GIF better than I could explain.

define "manipulative tithing". genuinely curious what that means

 

[Drebin]

so it's the act of buying on Sunday that makes it a sin. so, if it wasn't liquor you are buying it's not a sin.

The thought process is yes it's a sin but it's really a sin to be buying alcohol on the Lord's day. For the longest time in MS, you couldn't buy beer until after 1 PM on Sunday. Logic? Well, your arse should've been at church instead of the grocery store buying beer.

Hell, we're not that far removed from dry counties in this state.

We're our own worst enemies.

 

[Drebin]

No, just saying it's not a sin to have a drink, ever

I wouldn't say ever. But I agree in principle.

 

[bulldoghair]

define "manipulative tithing". genuinely curious what that means

Before I define manipulative tithing, let me ask you one first, for a reason. Do you believe tithing 10% is a binding command or strong expectation for Christians under the New Covenant? Because if your answer is yes- if you think God requires or strongly expects 10% or any amount in particular of your income to be paid to or given to a church or organization- then you’re already inside the very system I’m calling manipulative.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Not sure about the dispensaries, but I think you'd get pretty mixed answers on whether liquor store owners want to be open on Sundays. The more successful ones probably do. Their marginal sales would probably outweigh the extra labor costs and the owners aren't the ones that have to do that labor. But the less successful ones, where the owner sits behind the counter 50 if not 60 hours a week already, I think they believe most of the Sunday sales just get pushed to Sunday and they don't lose much business in exchange for getting a full day off.

Well, the good news for them is that they don’t have to be open on Sunday, or any other day of the week that they don’t choose to be. At least they should have the option, though.

 

[Villagedawg]

I believe Saturday is actually the sabbath, and a loooong time ago The Church made an administrative decision to change it to Sunday.

Then government tells us NO you must rest and honor the sabbath since we don’t like your legal lifestyle or your legal liquor store. It just doesn’t make human sense and may be a sin in and of itself (I’m no judge).

Can you imagine them telling the huge casino corporations in Biloxi they can’t be open on Sundays? And of course a liquor store or a dispensary would love to be open on a Sunday. It’s a prime weekend day. It’s not their choice to sit it out.

Agree. I'm not saying I agree with the no Sunday sales. I was just trying to explain the thinking as I see it. Sin/schmin makes no difference to me. That's just a matter of greatly varying opinion.

 

[aspendawg]

and if you ask waiters church people are the worst tippers

AMEN!! Years ago I worked at Bravo in Jackson (or as my Brother in Laws mom calls it BRAVOS!) and I loathed working Sunday brunch... worst tipping day of the week.

 

[LOTRGOTDAWGFAN]

Can't wait for the Baptists in the senate to kill it but at least people are trying. And a 15.5% tax on orders? Jesus
View attachment 1184188

don't forget doordash, ubereats delivery fees and service fees added on.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Before I define manipulative tithing, let me ask you one first, for a reason. Do you believe tithing 10% is a binding command or strong expectation for Christians under the New Covenant? Because if your answer is yes- if you think God requires or strongly expects 10% or any amount in particular of your income to be paid to or given to a church or organization- then you’re already inside the very system I’m calling manipulative.

10% is related to an OT scripture reference and should not be taken as literal given that there is Jesus and the NT where he basically leaves it up to the individual's heart; perhaps more challenging than the simple math of 10%? If you are part of an organization that you find valuable (experience/mission/social/whatever) and you know it exists solely on donations, I think that contributing is pretty decent way of ensuring that said organization can continue to do what it does. I'm not suggesting that church should be transactional, but ultimately, operating costs must be paid.

ETA: many people use do continue to use 10% as their go to for tithing

 

[Villagedawg]

A server shouldn’t have to pay the emotional bill for bad theology. Amen?

Is there a "good" version?

 

[johnson86-1]

The thought process is yes it's a sin but it's really a sin to be buying alcohol on the Lord's day. For the longest time in MS, you couldn't buy beer until after 1 PM on Sunday. Logic? Well, your arse should've been at church instead of the grocery store buying beer.

Hell, we're not that far removed from dry counties in this state.

We're our own worst enemies.

Hate to break it to you, but we are not removed from dry counties at all. We still have local option and a good number of counties remain dry. I think almost all of them at least have one municipality that has gone wet.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

Hell, we're not that far removed from dry counties in this state.

Hate to break it to you, but we are not removed from dry counties at all. We still have local option and a good number of counties remain dry. I think almost all of them at least have one municipality that has gone wet.

I think Benton County still does not have any alcohol sales. Several other counties are dry, but have municipalities within them that allow beer and/or liquor sales.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Before I define manipulative tithing, let me ask you one first, for a reason. Do you believe tithing 10% is a binding command or strong expectation for Christians under the New Covenant? Because if your answer is yes- if you think God requires or strongly expects 10% or any amount in particular of your income to be paid to or given to a church or organization- then you’re already inside the very system I’m calling manipulative.

I know a lot of people who go to church. Granted, people don’t walk around with signs saying what they tithe each week, but the general vibe I have gotten from conversations over the years is that 17ing nobody tithes 10%.

For an average, mid-career adult with a college degree and requisite employment - not even a wealthy person - that’s like $8,000 per year or some shít. Crazytown. The marketing behind the 10% figure was never actually believed by anyone.

 

[Darryl Steight]

Does Pine Lake Church preach that drinking is a sin?

No, of course not. I think the pastor would certainly say to be careful with it - there is a line you can cross into drunkenness that would be considered a sin. And of course, I'm sure they would recommend caution because for some people who can't control it - having one drink could lead to more drinks and then eventually sinful behavior (drunkenness, extramarital sex, killing someone with your car, etc.)

But having a glass of wine is not a sin. I think people these days over-ascribe the 'hypocrite' tag to church-goers. It's easier to call them hypocrites than actually get up and go to church and risk hearing something you don't want to hear.

 

[Darryl Steight]

Help a Mormon out with a question. Why is it okay to drink Monday through Saturday but not on Sunday. If it's a sin shouldn't be a sin 24/7? Sin is a sin regardless of the day. If it is not sinful during the week then the Baptist should not care if they get it on Sunday.

1. Drinking is not a sin in and of itself.
2. As some others have described, in the Church, Sunday is treated as the Sabbath, so a holy day where you're not supposed to work - you should be resting and focusing on your relationship with God and family, etc - and truthfully be even more focused on 'not sinning' than other days. I think that's where the blue laws came into effect, back when we were a Christian nation and they acted that way. As someone mentioned, this is a leftover from the blue law days. I imagine when capitalists eventually decided stores and restaurants should be open on Sundays (basically repealing the blue laws), some evangelical Christians fought back and said "well at least let us keep the liquor stores closed" and it was agreed upon. These days, no one even pretends to act like a Christian nation, so they'll wipe this last remnant out too. I'm not saying I'm for it or against it, just trying to answer your question.

 

[Darryl Steight]

Is there a "good" version?

Is your question really whether there is good Theology?

Sheesh, you are deep into this atheism thing, huh?

 

[Drebin]

No, of course not. I think the pastor would certainly say to be careful with it - there is a line you can cross into drunkenness that would be considered a sin. And of course, I'm sure they would recommend caution because for some people who can't control it - having one drink could lead to more drinks and then eventually sinful behavior (drunkenness, extramarital sex, killing someone with your car, etc.)

But having a glass of wine is not a sin. I think people these days over-ascribe the 'hypocrite' tag to church-goers. It's easier to call them hypocrites than actually get up and go to church and risk hearing something you don't want to hear.

This is really my thought on it. Drinking itself isn't a sin in my opinion. Knowingly feeding a weakness to excess, or being a stumbling block for someone else with a weakness, or endangering the lives of others can all make it cross over into sinfulness however.

I'm no better than anyone else. I enjoy a good whiskey pour. But I'm pretty disciplined about it. I'll never tell anyone else what's right or wrong for them, so long as their interests don't conflict with mine, to quote Vito Corleone.