Some good news

patdog

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bomanishus

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Just talked to someone at the Madison County Schools and they said this was not something happening at this point.

There is a lot of talk about this type of school, investigation into the school in Alabama you mentioned, but nothing is decided. The location you mention is 16th Section, so that fits.

The rest of it may well come to pass, but this official at MCSD would know and that's what he said.

615 - where did you get your info?
 
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Howiefeltersnstch

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What i found sounds like a partnership that consists of funding at public schools in Madison and Canton as well as training programs at local community colleges. $10 billion ? Wow
 

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615dawg

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Just talked to someone at the Madison County Schools and they said this was not something happening at this point.

There is a lot of talk about this type of school, investigation into the school in Alabama you mentioned, but nothing is decided. The location you mention is 16th Section, so that fits.

The rest of it may well come to pass, but this official at MCSD would know and that's what he said.

615 - where did you get your info?
Interesting
 
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patdog

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Interesting. Maybe I know more than this official at MCSD. A site has been picked and there are renderings circulating.

An announcement and details should be forthcoming.
Or maybe said official wasn't at liberty to tell everything he knows.
 
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615dawg

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Or maybe said official wasn't at liberty to tell everything he knows.
I don't think its that big of a secret - its just something that has not made widespread news. It was all the talk on the Coast last week at the ACTE convention. That's where I heard about it.
 
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mstateglfr

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Probably bc the private funding wants to do as they choose with their money which is how it should be.
Well of course private funding can be used however the private person/organization sees fit.

But this is a PUBLIC/private partnership, so there is public involvement/investment in some manner...and the public could choose to not participate if it wanted to only accept the private funds by way of the public schools.


I am not saying what is planned is bad.
I am not saying it should be different.
I said it will be interesting to understand why it wasn't done differently. Understanding motivations and perceived benefits as well as downsides is important in this sort of development.
 

mstateglfr

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Status quo. Resistance to change. Stubborn commitment to the existing way is the right way. Hiring the right people to teach technical skills (they probably don't meet the requirements to be hired as a "teacher"). All that.

It's insane that we've gone generations now without large scale votec/tech options in our schools - public and private.
Are CTE classes not popular in Mississippi?
My district has CTE classes in engineering, architecture, basic nursing, graphic design, teaching, cyber security, hvac, electrical, auto repair, auto body, marine biology, aviation, crop sciences, livestock care, etc etc.

All are CTE classes.
I agree, CTE classes are really beneficial and should exist everywhere.
 

Maroon Eagle

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Are CTE classes not popular in Mississippi?
My district has CTE classes in engineering, architecture, basic nursing, graphic design, teaching, cyber security, hvac, electrical, auto repair, auto body, marine biology, aviation, crop sciences, livestock care, etc etc.

All are CTE classes.
I agree, CTE classes are really beneficial and should exist everywhere.
They are popular.

One big issue in Mississippi is when CTE classes are offered.

A majority of classes here where career credentials can be obtained are at the jucos as opposed to high schools… which makes me wonder what will Madison Prep offer that goes towards credentials…
 

mstateglfr

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Doesn’t ever seem to resonate with some of you idiots though
Who is pushing back that has any power to decide the status quo should continue?

Heck, from what I remember, it's been probably 95% of comments that support the claim of too many Admin being paid too much.
 

paindonthurt

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Who is pushing back that has any power to decide the status quo should continue?

Heck, from what I remember, it's been probably 95% of comments that support the claim of too many Admin being paid too much.
Yeah it’s the 5%. You are in it.
 

mstateglfr

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Yeah it’s the 5%. You are in it.
Am I?
I know nothing about if the state of Mississippi actually does or doesn't have too many Admin being paid too much.

I have never said 'the state of Mississippi needs more overpaid Admin in districts!' because I don't live there or know anything more than geumboinfs on a message board.
...yet I am part of the 5%? 17outta here, clown.

Based on what I have read here thru the years, there are too many Admin being paid more than they 'deserve', and the standards to become a high paid Admin in Mississippi are concerningly low.
Since a lot of typically reasonable people have posted that general view, I don't have reason to disagree.
 

paindonthurt

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Am I?
I know nothing about if the state of Mississippi actually does or doesn't have too many Admin being paid too much.

I have never said 'the state of Mississippi needs more overpaid Admin in districts!' because I don't live there or know anything more than geumboinfs on a message board.
...yet I am part of the 5%? 17outta here, clown.

Based on what I have read here thru the years, there are too many Admin being paid more than they 'deserve', and the standards to become a high paid Admin in Mississippi are concerningly low.
Since a lot of typically reasonable people have posted that general view, I don't have reason to disagree.
TLDR

Circles. Blah blah blah.
 

paindonthurt

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TLDR since you have shown tos truffle with anything longer than an original tweet...
- I have not supported what you claim.
Trying GIF by Apple TV+
 

paindonthurt

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It's because you don't bring facts. Just effeminate anger.
Of course the message he is responding to isn't factual. Its a question. "And out of those 137 superintendents how many are paid a top 7% income and run failing districts?"

Do you understand the difference between a statement of fact and a question? Probably not.

Heres a fact for you.

There are multiple (7 or more) superintendents making a top 5% income in the state of mississippi running failing school districts. I bet you can't dispute that fact with evidence.

When i link legit articles you call it brain rot while providing nothing to refute it. ATC amirite?? Hey oh!!

$2.9 million
double digit goat
 

615dawg

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We're down to 137 school districts from 152, so its a start. 10 years ago, dropping from 152 was IMPOSSIBLE.

I do not agree that we need to get to one per county. Take a place like Madison. The demographics and needs of a Title I school in Canton is vastly different than wealthy schools in Madison and Germantown. And yes, Madison County oversees the schools in Camden but they are run completely differently than the others in the county.

But, no reason Pearl should be different than the rest of Rankin County. No reason North Panola and South Panola should be two different districts. Jackson may need to be its own district, but no reason Clinton, Raymond and Byram need separate districts.

I mapped it out one time and got to 105-110. Agree that many of the ones that need to be consolidated are piggy banks. People running schools with $50 million budgets that couldn't handle the lunch rush at Krystal.
 
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J-Dawg

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Looking at 615’s linked Baldwin example, it doesn’t look like there will be any sports there.

If I had to guess, students who want to play sports will have to forego them altogether.

I’m gonna say that while it’ll attract students, that it’s not going to be for everyone.

Looking at the Baldwin faculty roster (appears small at the moment— 60 faculty and staff total listed with about 25 percent being support staff and administrative) as well as its advertised positions, the smart move for Madison would be a smaller school that can become bigger easily— rather than too much too soon.
If it's like the River City Early College in Vicksburg (Part of Vicksburg-Warren School District), then the students can still participate in the extra-curriculars of the "normal" high school they are zoned to.
 
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J-Dawg

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That's a school in Louisiana unless google hates me and wants to hide anything related to what's going up in Madison co MS
I can't find anything, either. And I am a Madison County resident with a child in the MCSD and I work in an industry that has been involved first-hand with the development of the Amazon sites since the inception. I know they proposed funding some vocational education programs at either the local high schools or Holmes CC, but this is the first I've heard of a new established academy. 615 must have a better scoop than the people we work with.
 

Maroon Eagle

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We're down to 137 school districts from 152, so its a start. 10 years ago, dropping from 152 was IMPOSSIBLE.

I do not agree that we need to get to one per county. Take a place like Madison. The demographics and needs of a Title I school in Canton is vastly different than wealthy schools in Madison and Germantown. And yes, Madison County oversees the schools in Camden but they are run completely differently than the others in the county.

Definitely possible.

If Hinds CC can administer an HBCU within its campuses, Madison County can do something similar.

But, no reason Pearl should be different than the rest of Rankin County. No reason North Panola and South Panola should be two different districts. Jackson may need to be its own district, but no reason Clinton, Raymond and Byram need separate districts.
You know the background of course but at one time Clinton was in the Hinds County District with Raymond, Byram, Terry, and Utica.

Clinton was able to separate themselves— hence a previous longterm name as Clinton Separate School District— and went all-in on different schools for different grades throughout the city and went up the District rankings within the State which they maintained for around 40 years before beginning to regress to the mean thanks in part to being so attractive when compared to JPS or Hinds County.
 

615dawg

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I am a big believer that school consolidation is just as big of a deal than school district consolidation. These tiny schools aren't equipped for today's requirements. Watch what happens in Simpson County now that Magee and Mendenhall are going to be combined. I've worked on school bond issues throughout the South and have never seen the vitriol and nastiness that that county put out - and it was all about sports. "We go from two starting quarterbacks to one" was actually a quote printed in a news article.
 
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horshack.sixpack

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Are CTE classes not popular in Mississippi?
My district has CTE classes in engineering, architecture, basic nursing, graphic design, teaching, cyber security, hvac, electrical, auto repair, auto body, marine biology, aviation, crop sciences, livestock care, etc etc.

All are CTE classes.
I agree, CTE classes are really beneficial and should exist everywhere.
There are CTE schools/parts of schools much like there was vo-tech when I grew up. The same stigma, unfortunately, is attached. Some of the smartest people I know did not thrive in a traditional educational setting. I personally hated it, but I'm not one of the smartest people I know...
 
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horshack.sixpack

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Doesn’t ever seem to resonate with some of you idiots though
I'm not aware of anyone who doesn't agree. Our educational system in MS is designed to provide max $$$ for those who are in leadership while also providing high pay for retired teachers who then return to "consult" with their former employer. Luckily, we also have a strong tendency to reward good teachers by moving them out of the classroom and into roles at central office as "specialists". With MDE "oversight" and all the known corruption that, at least in the past, was/is in that place, I think that most, like me, see no path for improvement.

Observationally, I could guess that we have at least twice as many as we need. If I run the quick math on why we might have 2x the number of schools/districts that we need it seems that segregation ripple effects could be in play (i.e. we put in "separate but equal" schools back in the day).

I know when I was at Clinton, the SD took in 2, Hinds County schools (Lovett and Sumner Hill). Both of those were all/95%+ black. Lovett had been Elementary and Sumner Hill had been high school. Lovett turned into 6th grade and Sumner Hill turned into 9th grade. The first few years of that transition there was a lot of animosity.
 
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maroontide06

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I am a big believer that school consolidation is just as big of a deal than school district consolidation. These tiny schools aren't equipped for today's requirements. Watch what happens in Simpson County now that Magee and Mendenhall are going to be combined. I've worked on school bond issues throughout the South and have never seen the vitriol and nastiness that that county put out - and it was all about sports. "We go from two starting quarterbacks to one" was actually a quote printed in a news article.

That new consolidated school will do amazing things for the citizens of Simpson County.
This is no longer happening.

 

OG Goat Holder

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Of course the message he is responding to isn't factual. Its a question. "And out of those 137 superintendents how many are paid a top 7% income and run failing districts?"

Do you understand the difference between a statement of fact and a question? Probably not.

Heres a fact for you.

There are multiple (7 or more) superintendents making a top 5% income in the state of mississippi running failing school districts. I bet you can't dispute that fact with evidence.

When i link legit articles you call it brain rot while providing nothing to refute it. ATC amirite?? Hey oh!!

$2.9 million
double digit goat
You didn't link shlt. And you alleged the fact, so the burden of proof is on you. Stupid 17.
 

OG Goat Holder

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We're down to 137 school districts from 152, so its a start. 10 years ago, dropping from 152 was IMPOSSIBLE.

I do not agree that we need to get to one per county. Take a place like Madison. The demographics and needs of a Title I school in Canton is vastly different than wealthy schools in Madison and Germantown. And yes, Madison County oversees the schools in Camden but they are run completely differently than the others in the county.

But, no reason Pearl should be different than the rest of Rankin County. No reason North Panola and South Panola should be two different districts. Jackson may need to be its own district, but no reason Clinton, Raymond and Byram need separate districts.

I mapped it out one time and got to 105-110. Agree that many of the ones that need to be consolidated are piggy banks. People running schools with $50 million budgets that couldn't handle the lunch rush at Krystal.
You are saying "no reason", well, what is your reason that they should consolidate if they do not want to do so? Lot of evidence that smaller classrooms are more conducive to learning.

I am a big believer that school consolidation is just as big of a deal than school district consolidation. These tiny schools aren't equipped for today's requirements. Watch what happens in Simpson County now that Magee and Mendenhall are going to be combined. I've worked on school bond issues throughout the South and have never seen the vitriol and nastiness that that county put out - and it was all about sports. "We go from two starting quarterbacks to one" was actually a quote printed in a news article.

That new consolidated school will do amazing things for the citizens of Simpson County.
You can't really tell me that merger is going to make some huge educational difference, going from 4A or whatever they were, to now a 7A or what not. They will likely get better at sports, though, but like you said, to the detriment of some athletes.

It's about saving money.....so just say that. Money that will get spent elsewhere. Stop with acting like this is such a good thing for education.
 

paindonthurt

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I'm not aware of anyone who doesn't agree. Our educational system in MS is designed to provide max $$$ for those who are in leadership while also providing high pay for retired teachers who then return to "consult" with their former employer. Luckily, we also have a strong tendency to reward good teachers by moving them out of the classroom and into roles at central office as "specialists". With MDE "oversight" and all the known corruption that, at least in the past, was/is in that place, I think that most, like me, see no path for improvement.

Observationally, I could guess that we have at least twice as many as we need. If I run the quick math on why we might have 2x the number of schools/districts that we need it seems that segregation ripple effects could be in play (i.e. we put in "separate but equal" schools back in the day).

I know when I was at Clinton, the SD took in 2, Hinds County schools (Lovett and Sumner Hill). Both of those were all/95%+ black. Lovett had been Elementary and Sumner Hill had been high school. Lovett turned into 6th grade and Sumner Hill turned into 9th grade. The first few years of that transition there was a lot of animosity.
I can find the thread where a lot of the usual suspects thought the superintendent pay was perfectly fine around the state.
 

paindonthurt

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You didn't link shlt. And you alleged the fact, so the burden of proof is on you. Stupid 17.
I've linked about superintendent pay before. Pretty sure your DA replied.

Again, what you originally replied to was question not a statement.

$2.9 million
Double Digit Goat
 

mstateglfr

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I can find the thread where a lot of the usual suspects thought the superintendent pay was perfectly fine around the state.
That is a related argument to the one you are making here, but it is a different argument.

Arguing that superintendent pay, as an average, is 'perfectly fine' is different from arguing that all school districts need to stay and there should be no Administrative consolidation.

Those are fundamentally different points/arguments.
 

paindonthurt

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That is a related argument to the one you are making here, but it is a different argument.

Arguing that superintendent pay, as an average, is 'perfectly fine' is different from arguing that all school districts need to stay and there should be no Administrative consolidation.

Those are fundamentally different points/arguments.
I haven't said a word about consolidation in this thread.

Superintendent pay is too high in many districts that are failing.

Can you read?
 

Maroon Eagle

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There are CTE schools/parts of schools much like there was vo-tech when I grew up. The same stigma, unfortunately, is attached. Some of the smartest people I know did not thrive in a traditional educational setting. I personally hated it, but I'm not one of the smartest people I know...
Yep.

And that stigma is generally peer-driven…

Teenagers can be idiots which is why a lot of the career education classes are done at jucos….
 

OG Goat Holder

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Yep.

And that stigma is generally peer-driven…

Teenagers can be idiots which is why a lot of the career education classes are done at jucos….
I wonder if we'll ever start rethinking the entire structure of the high school education....
 

horshack.sixpack

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I can find the thread where a lot of the usual suspects thought the superintendent pay was perfectly fine around the state.
I think that a perception of high pay is largely subjective based on what the observer makes. I agree that 1) there are too many districts and 2) this leads to too many superintendents and 3) we are wasting money on these higher compensated positions because so many of them have so few kids under them (i.e. there's no good reason for that to be a district). I think I'd be fine with the rate of pay IF the level of responsibility reflected it. To your primary point if your school district is failing then you for sure are over paid. Public sector "accountability" is just different than private.

Finally, if you've been involved in public education recently you will have noticed that we also have a ton of principals. No longer is their a principal and assistant principle. There are principals at every grade level starting at least in middle school (I have no exposure to elementary school these days). I think that it's just a boondoggle to get/retain good people in the district because the teacher pay is so crappy. You can at least show some growth path.

Corporate corollary: way too many businesses have no way to grow financially past a certain ceiling as an individual contributor. This has many people always bucking to become a supervisor/manager/whatever title gets them out of the pay rut. It also means a lot of folks end up managing people who genuinely suck at it and hate it.

TLDR: I think you are seeing human nature play out in the public space in a way not dissimilar to how it works in private corporate. It's just the idea that we are footing the bill for the inefficiency that makes us feel worse when a public entity is involved.
 
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paindonthurt

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I think that a perception of high pay is largely subjective based on what the observer makes. I agree that 1) there are too many districts and 2) this leads to too many superintendents and 3) we are wasting money on these higher compensated positions because so many of them have so few kids under them (i.e. there's no good reason for that to be a district). I think I'd be fine with the rate of pay IF the level of responsibility reflected it. To your primary point if your school district is failing then you for sure are over paid. Public sector "accountability" is just different than private.

Finally, if you've been involved in public education recently you will have noticed that we also have a ton of principals. No longer is their a principal and assistant principle. There are principals at every grade level starting at least in middle school (I have no exposure to elementary school these days). I think that it's just a boondoggle to get/retain good people in the district because the teacher pay is so crappy. You can at least show some growth path.

Corporate corollary: way too many businesses have no way to grow financially past a certain ceiling as an individual contributor. This has many people always bucking to become a supervisor/manager/whatever title gets them out of the pay rut. It also means a lot of folks end up managing people who genuinely suck at it and hate it.

TLDR: I think you are seeing human nature play out in the public space in a way not dissimilar to how it works in private corporate. It's just the idea that we are footing the bill for the inefficiency that makes us feel worse when a public entity is involved.
If we consolidated and the districts were performing well academically and managing their budgets efficiently, i'd be ok if they made $200,000 to $300,000 per year.

I'm specifically talking about the ones who are failing academically and always complaining they don't have money and they couldn't budget their own personal income. AND THEY GET PAID $150,000 PLUS A YEAR. Thats insane and 17ing stupid.

ETA: And of course i feel worse when its tax payer money. If a company wants to throw away money, fine. Its their money. If its publicly traded i get to choose to invest or not.

But in general companies are way more efficient than government and employees are held accountable way more in companies than in government.
 
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mstateglfr

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I haven't said a word about consolidation in this thread.

Superintendent pay is too high in many districts that are failing.

Can you read?
You commented on how you have talked about Sup pay before. In those threads, you have ranted about how there are too many Sups, and that is part of the complaint of how much Sups are paid.
Consolidation would reduce the number of Sups and associated Admin, thus bringing the total Sup pay down.

This is why I pointed out that average Sup pay is a different argument from Consolidating(which would lower the total cost, but not necessarily the average cost).
 

paindonthurt

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You commented on how you have talked about Sup pay before. In those threads, you have ranted about how there are too many Sups, and that is part of the complaint of how much Sups are paid.
Consolidation would reduce the number of Sups and associated Admin, thus bringing the total Sup pay down.

This is why I pointed out that average Sup pay is a different argument from Consolidating(which would lower the total cost, but not necessarily the average cost).
you haven't heard me argue against consolidation.

But you don't have to do both at the same time.

You can pay the idiot superintendents less while you work on consolidation.

Hell if you don't ever consolidate you can pay them less.

For the record, I think we should do both. But we shouldn't consolidate schools unless it makes sense. We shouldn't cripple a good performing school because of our feels.