Someone explain to me how we are going to make a leap next year in Baseball

[bill brasky.sixpack]

Because what I see is us losing our Ace who has carried us this year, our closer.<div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"></div><div>
</div><div>I just don't see where everyone gets this gigantic leap from, we will probably miss a regional this year and everyone thinks we will be hosting and contending for Omaha next year. </div><div>
</div><div>3 of our starters are juniors who are average to below average ball players who are what they are (Porter, Frost, and Slauter) 4 of our starters are Sophs, 2 of whom are having great years (Norris and Frazier) and Bradford is having a below average year, but he is what he is, a poor mans Jeffrey Rea, a scrappy guy who will hit around .300 and Renfroe who is still raw but is immensely talented. Rea is a RS-Freshman who is also immensely talented, but until he cuts down on his K's and starts to hit for more power he will be a liability for us. And that brings us to Britton, well at least he can't be any worse next year. </div><div>
</div><div>Someone explain it to me, how we lose Stratton and Reed and that improves our pitching staff which has been stellar this year and keep the same god awful lineup and we morph into a team bound for Omaha. </div>

 

[bill brasky.sixpack]

Because what I see is us losing our Ace who has carried us this year, our closer.<div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"></div><div>
</div><div>I just don't see where everyone gets this gigantic leap from, we will probably miss a regional this year and everyone thinks we will be hosting and contending for Omaha next year. </div><div>
</div><div>3 of our starters are juniors who are average to below average ball players who are what they are (Porter, Frost, and Slauter) 4 of our starters are Sophs, 2 of whom are having great years (Norris and Frazier) and Bradford is having a below average year, but he is what he is, a poor mans Jeffrey Rea, a scrappy guy who will hit around .300 and Renfroe who is still raw but is immensely talented. Rea is a RS-Freshman who is also immensely talented, but until he cuts down on his K's and starts to hit for more power he will be a liability for us. And that brings us to Britton, well at least he can't be any worse next year. </div><div>
</div><div>Someone explain it to me, how we lose Stratton and Reed and that improves our pitching staff which has been stellar this year and keep the same god awful lineup and we morph into a team bound for Omaha. </div>

 

[bill brasky.sixpack]

Because what I see is us losing our Ace who has carried us this year, our closer.<div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"></div><div>
</div><div>I just don't see where everyone gets this gigantic leap from, we will probably miss a regional this year and everyone thinks we will be hosting and contending for Omaha next year. </div><div>
</div><div>3 of our starters are juniors who are average to below average ball players who are what they are (Porter, Frost, and Slauter) 4 of our starters are Sophs, 2 of whom are having great years (Norris and Frazier) and Bradford is having a below average year, but he is what he is, a poor mans Jeffrey Rea, a scrappy guy who will hit around .300 and Renfroe who is still raw but is immensely talented. Rea is a RS-Freshman who is also immensely talented, but until he cuts down on his K's and starts to hit for more power he will be a liability for us. And that brings us to Britton, well at least he can't be any worse next year. </div><div>
</div><div>Someone explain it to me, how we lose Stratton and Reed and that improves our pitching staff which has been stellar this year and keep the same god awful lineup and we morph into a team bound for Omaha. </div>

 

[Shmuley]

nm

 

[8dog]

and make the leap from Fr to Soph year with your pitchers. Ideally, it will be Woodruff, Lindgren on Fri/Sat keeping us in games. However, Butch hasn't shown he can develop from Fr to soph year.

Offensively, assuming no one goes pro, we bring back Frazier, Norris, CT, Rea, Renfroe, and Slaughter. Taht's a good core if they improve. There are still some holes.

All that being said, that's just hope. I don't feel great about the future.

 

[DAWG61]

nm

 

[futaba.79]

and see a very talented guy like Norris barely being able to move. I see Bradford, the guy that carried us in the regional, still struggling to get his swing back. He separated his shoulder for crying out loud. If those guys are 100% right now, I'm thinking that we've won at least two more SEC games. I see loads of potential in Rea and Renfroe. Frazier is a sound player already.

That's a solid core of 5 guys. Britton is probably going to progress like Frazier did. He'll go from being a question mark in the field and a liability in the order to being solid. The guy is a good athlete.

My hope is that we've got the young pitching in place. Some of the younger guys have shown they can throw.

I hate believing Cohen's "we're so darn close" line because it's his fault we're as young as we are. And I certainly don't buy C34's "this is really year 2" ********. That said, I think we'll make a jump to the middle of the pack next year.

 

[RobbieRandolph]

Frazier hit .274 last year as a freshman with a fielding pct of .974, and made Freshman All-SEC

Britton is hitting .114 and fielding at a .909 clip thus far. It's not even close between the two.

 

[BillBraskyDOG]

I'm with you on renfroe, rea, bradford, norris and frazier. Outside that you're making a huge assumption on britton. Haven't seen much ability to develop players. Somebody on this website was touting nick flair as being the hitter that norris is, whoever said that is a fool, but who knows what we will get out of him too.

 

[futaba.79]

Frazier was a better baseball player as a freshman, no doubt. I think Britton is a better athlete and eventually that will translate on the filed, but not this year. Remember Renfroe last year? He was terrible but you could see that he was talented. This year he's starting to develop. Hell, just call me hopeful, but I'm thinking that will happen with Britton.

 

[OMlawdog]

For some reason I saw their names as being eligible, but I don't think either will consider the draft due to their injuries.

In looking at MSU's lineup last night, I would think most if not all of it will be back. I don't think Porter or Slauter are draft risks, and CT, Frazier, Rea, and Renfroe are probably not draft eligible.

The thing that is interesting to me is that Norris, Rea, Renfroe and Porter aren't very fast, and I know Cohen believes with the new bats speed is more important than power, yet these guys really aren't fast and so far haven't shown great power. Im just not sure they fit into what Cohen wants to do which is run, play good defense and pitch. Frazier and CT seem to fit that mold.

I haven't seen Lindgren pitch this year, so I have no idea what he can do, but I was pretty impressed with Woodruff, but considering you lose Stratton its not like you are talking about an upgrade as far as Friday night starters go.

 

[Arthur2478]

Someone explain it to me, how we lose Stratton and Reed and that improves our pitching staff which has been stellar this year and keep the same god awful lineup and we morph into a team bound for Omaha

Not saying it's gonna happen, but here's a glass half full perspective:

Bracewell comes back fully healthy and is a solid Friday night starter.
Graveman, not a high draft choice, returns for his senior season and gives us a Saturday guy with SEC experience.
Either Evan Mitchell or Woodruff go for us on Sundays, while the other becomes our mid-week starter.

Closer - Personally I think Jonathan Holder is our future stopper, but I wouldnt rule out Taylor Stark if he gets more command of his pitches. Let be honest, the 2012 version of Reed has left a lot to be desired so how much are we really losing.

Bullpen: Lindgren, Mitchell, Pollorena (currently listed as JR on website?), Cox, Fitts, Gaines Bradford, Norris, etc etc
I'm still waiting to see Renfroe pitch but with all of our OF injuries we just haven't been able to get him in.

Infield (returns completely intact):
1B - Rea, lots of talent should be improved.
2B - I guess Frost by default unless one of the younger players stepup
SS - Frazier, our 2nd best hitter returns and improves
3B - Norris, our best hitter returns and is healthy
C - Slaughter, should improve with experience.

Outfield (Losing Brownlee who has barely played this season):
LF - Henderson/Woodruff/Stark rotation.
RF - Refroe. Guy has a cannon of an arm and all the potential in the world at the plate.
CF - Bradford. Healthy and improved.

Designated Hitter: Porter returns with a year and summer of experience under his belt.

Although anything can happen, it would not shock me at all to see next years club (essentially the same position players as this year) be much improved.

 

[maroonmania]

and that will be Chris Stratton. What Reed is giving us so far this year can easily be surpassed by Stark or Holder. Everybody else is likely back. At this point though I would in no way count on Bracewell ever again.

 

[Arthur2478]

I completely agree except for the Bracewell part. I think he'll be fully healthy by next season

 

[bill brasky.sixpack]

Norris hadn't thrown before he was injured, and Renfroe hadn't thrown before the outfield injuries either. Renfroe has the best arm on our team and Norris threw the best out of our freshman last year. <div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"></div>

 

[MSDawg34]

If he can throw strikes

 

[8dog]

I doubt they go, but I know there has been a little chatter about it.

Haven't seen Lindgren enough and would like to see him get more chances. We've basically tried to get by to this point with 3 pitchers. Hopefully Cohen has seen that its now time to give the young arms some more innings.

 

[futaba.79]

I always thought SR college was a 3 yr deal. You either had to complete a redshirt soph or Jr season to be draft eligible. Am I wrong on this?

 

[8dog]

no matter how much ball you have played.

 

[chew1095]

The draft rule is that if you enroll in a 4 year college and you are 21 by the time of the amateur draft, you are draft eligible. So, in the case of Norris and Bradford, if you are 19 when you graduate from HS, you are draft eligible after your soph year.

 

[Arthur2478]

Why hasn't Norris or Renfroe thrown this year?

I have no idea why we didn't see them early this year because I fully expected to see both. Obviously the injuries have since prevented them from stepping on the hill.

 

[futaba.79]

nt

 

[8dog]

popping up, you cannot really count on them---like CC Watson. I'll be surprised if we get a half of a season out of bracewell.

 

[Coach34]

Stratton was mowing down people all last year as our Ace- we rode him and his 5.20 ERA right into a Super Regional didnt we?

Yeah, there is no way anybody improves, and we just suck thru another year of Cohenball

 

[maroonmania]

like he did this year, but as soon as his arm gets a little wear on it from a few starts I'll be willing to bet he'll be right back on the DL again.

 

[bill brasky.sixpack]

instead of giving a smart *** response<div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"></div>

 

[engie]

Because what I see is us losing our Ace who has carried us this year, our closer. Someone explain it to me, how we lose Stratton and Reed and that improves our pitching staff which has been stellar this year and keep the same god awful lineup and we morph into a team bound for Omaha.

Chris Stratton(fr) - 5.29era
(so) - 5.21era
c (jr) - 2.98era

Caleb Reed(fr) - 9.17era
(so) - 6.99era
(jr) - 1.55era
c (sr) - 3.41era

Clearly, they've developed tremendously over their time here. They were terrible as fr/so pitchers, agreed? So terrible, in fact, that a large portion of people on here would(or did) consider them busts. Is that a fair assumption? Definitely not SEC-worthy pitchers, because after all, if you can't get it done as a FR or SO here at State, you are NOT TALENTED enough to succeed at this level, correct? I'm just pointing out the irony of how many people on here approach baseball...

Ok, let's compare that to our current fr/so pitchers on current staff.

Taylor Stark(fr) - 2.95era
(so) - 3.00era

Daryl Norris(fr) - 3.21era
(so) has not pitched YET

Evan Mitchell(fr) - 4.62
(so) - 4.13

Johnathan Holder(fr) - 0.00era in 16ip
Ross Mitchell(fr) - 1.04era in 8.2ip
Tanner Gaines(fr) - 1.08era in 8.1ip
Jacob Lindgren(fr) - 3.18era in 11.1ip
Trevor Fitts(fr) - 3.29era in 13.2ip
Brandon Woodruff(fr) - 4.24era in 17.0ip(would be cut in half if not for all the punching judy hits OM put together against him last night)
Will Cox(fr) - 4.74era in 19ip

Total ERA of ALL our current FR pitchers COMBINED = 3.10

Clearly, we are not improving. The talent is still down. The pieces are not in place for future success. We have no chance to win big in the future with these guys!

I realize that my response is tongue-in-cheek, and I KNOW that losing Stratton/Reed will hurt, but there is plenty of evidence, based on where Reed/Stratton were as FR, compared to the guys we have now, that we have MULTIPLE guys with the capabilities to step up and fill these two roles just as well, if not better. Our talent has been upgraded TREMENDOUSLY on the hill the past two seasons, PERIOD. Our talent and youth on the mound has potential to develop into an elite all-around staff in the coming years. Elite enough to mask or even erase our hitting weaknesses, IMO.

Bradford is having a below average year, but he is what he is, a poor mans Jeffrey Rea, a scrappy guy who will hit around .300

I'd call him Jeffrey Rea reincarnated. He's just playing injured right now. He'll get hot later in the season, just like he did last year. Either way, comparing to a guy that is our all-time hits leader is more a compliment than anything else. Rea also had one of the best years as a true FR that I recall anyone at State having recently. Batting average in College Baseball is down 20 points across the board with the new bats. So, that leads us into the comparison.
Jeff Rea(fr) - .324 13doubles 2hr 32rbi 104tb .835ops
CT Bradford(fr) - .303 12doubles 0hr 34rbi 90tb .766ops

I think Norris, Bradford, Frazier, Renfroe, Rea, (eventually) Woodruff, Henderson, Fullerton, and Flair all have potential to be above SEC-average position players for us. That takes care of the entire starting lineup +1. I, for one, think Renfroe needs to move to catcher, stay there, and be pushed nonstop until he refines his ability. He has talents at that position that are absolutely OFF the charts, such as pop time, velocity on the throws, ability to throw behind guys, etc... he just needs work on refining other aspects(framing, blocking, etc). Overall, these guys all just need the time to mature into their respective roles. CT, Frazier, and Norris were far more refined than the average freshman out of HS. They were VERY GOOD as fr here at State. As good as any we've had in awhile. People just have a hard time seeing it, because the overall product has still been down. The rest of these guys are just extremely raw talents, and it's taking time for them to put it together. More time than I'd like, definitely. But about what I'd expect. This is why I am hopeful that they take HUGE steps forward as Sophs/Jrs next year, just as tons of our guys have over the years...

I agree with your assessment on the junior starters, Britton, etc...but they are also still developing, and have been serviceable in some situations. We will have a few new FR next year come in with potential to fill these roles if these guys don't step forward, several of which are more refined as HS seniors and will be ready to be serviceable in a starting role if needed.

Look guys, we are ALL disappointed in where we are right now. EVERY ONE of us. We are behind schedule for where we want to be. That is ON COHEN. It's even more frustrating, because we've been SO CLOSE to breaking through SO MANY times this year, yet we never seem to get it done. How many of our losses did we lose in the 9th? How many did we have a chance to win in the 9th? It's enough to drive you insane as a fan. Much easier to just suck and get blown out than to push all the best teams in the country to the brink and then come up short. That said, I still choose to believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel... and that light is NOT as far away as many here are starting to feel that it is.

I KNEW we were going to have a long season at the plate this year. However, I, for one, feel like the pitching is what is letting us down right now, moreso than the hitting. My preseason expectation was to go 15-15 in the SEC, which it looks like we will fall short of. The reason we're falling short of my goal isn't hitting(which is behind as expected), it's Routt and Mitchell's underperformance relative to my expectations, along with Reed's meltdowns at the end of a couple SEC games.

Let's let things play out for the rest of the season and actually miss the regionals before falling apart about this, ok? I feel like this team has a run left in them that we haven't seen yet. The light bulb is going to come on at some point, and our pitching depth sets up well to make a deep run in the SEC tourney, provided we make it there. IMO, we need to win 14-15 SEC games total to get into regionals(including tournament), and once we are in(as we're well-aware given our last two appearances), we have a chance....

 

[Foronce]

it makes to much sense for most on here to handle.

 

[bill brasky.sixpack]

These freshman pitchers are doing so much better than in the past because we aren't asking them to carry the staff as we have in the past few years. I think our pitching will end up ok next year because we have a good number of great arms. Cohen just handles a pitching staff much different than the majority of the SEC. We will just need one of the guys to make a step forward like Stratton did, either Woodruff or Mitchell, preferably both. <div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"></div><div>
</div><div>Our hitting is what scares me, because if our pitching regresses at all, then we will need our hitting to be about 10 times as good as it has been this year. </div>

 

[OMlawdog]

So many decent college juniors got squeezed last year after the first round, and that is going to happen again.

Im hearing that some teams with limited funds will tell college juniors that basically they can take 50K to sign now, or go back in the draft as a senior and sign for 10K the next year.

College players have little to no leverage and I think MLB teams are going to spend their money on HS kids that have some leverage.

Its just going to depend on what that kid wants to do with their senior year.

 

[CadaverDawg]

I could not agree with you more on every account. But be careful, your posts start getting long you will get called out on it.

Hitters improve every year as well....unless the early injury bug hits us again, like this year. While Frazier's average wasn't horrendous last year, I was worried about him being supposedly one of our better hitters this year. Mainly because he didn't seem to have much pop, and had a lot of lazy flares and ground ball hits. But in one year he has become a guy with some pop, and a solid average to go with it. I will be excited about our hitting next year if we have Bradford, Frazier, Norris, Renfroe, and Rae coming back. Slaughter should be improved, and we may have a young player challenge for a spot with their bat. The hitting can't get much worse, and if our returners are just healthy that should help us improve tremendously.

 

[maroonmania]

is Daniel Garner who is listed now as a catcher. He will play next year somewhere and may even challenge Slaughter for the starting catcher's spot.

 

[MSDawg34]

His whole post was about the potential we have next year. Most everyone agrees that we will have a chance at greatness next year with the lineup and arms we have coming back.

While most of us agree with the potential, you pompously have set in stone that we will be awesome and anyone that has questioned Cohen is a fool because they obviously can't see that we will 100% be awesome.

I hope we win 20+ SEC games next year and host 2 weekends on the way to Omaha. But I will not say that Cohen hasn't given me concerns to whether or not he can get it done. I hope he can. But at this point for you to act as if it is a given, and be this much of a jackass about it is absurd

 

[patdog]

I'd bevery happyto go 15-15. I keep hearing potential and next year, but I just don't see it. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

 

[Coach34]

and a very good season for us

 

[Cramer-The-Goat]

That is all we will get . Then it will be bye bye time for you know who.

 

[maroonmania]

MSU has NEVER won 20 games since the current 30 game format came into existence in 1993. We've won 19 games once back in 1997 (19-11) and besides that our best record has been 17 wins on multiple occassions. Just going 15-15 is a major feat these days at MSU in baseball. I hope people realize that our 14-16 record last year was BETTER than all but ONE of Polk's last FIVE seasons.

 

[engie]

I'm just choosing to look at it from a more optimistic light. I think we DO step forward next year, both on the mound and the plate. The cards will finally be stacked in our favor, assuming CT and Norris don't get a wild-hair and test the draft waters, and that everyone else progresses at an NCAA-average rate for young players between seasons(and that we're not f'd so badly by the injury bug in the heart of our season). Our pitching staff has potential to be very special. Defensively, we have the chance to be above average from a tools standpoint. Just have to get the normal baseball maturity, where we cut down on the ridiculous mistakes. Offensively, we have no power...and we won't be getting any in the off-season either. We need to seriously consider shortening the fences at Dudy Noble, just like they did in Oxford in 2003, which corresponds with their rise(not that these things have any actual physical correlation, but the timing is interesting). With the new bats, the Dude is a pitchers dream and a hitters graveyard. This is just a fact...and is NOT meant to dismiss Cohen's blame in the fact that we have no true power hitters, and the ones we have that can hit for power have had their swings tinkered with to the extent that they DON'T hit for power. Renfroe and Rea should each be good for 10+ bombs a year. Ever watch Renfroe take bp? Pretty ridiculous he only has TWO shots on the year. Eventually, things have to come together for them, and the light bulb has to come on. I feel like we have potential to be a good hitting team for average next season, somewhere in the neighborhood of .300 as a squad(a 30 point jump from this season).

We have GOT to advance next season in a fairly drastic and measurable way. AT LEAST to the point that the OPTIMISM comes back among the fanbase. I don't think .500 in the SEC next year gets it done. For ANY OF US. I think Cohen needs to win AT LEAST 16 in the regular season SEC and 40 overall, go deep in the SEC tourney, and be in contention to host a regional, or it's going to be time to start looking for our next coach. He's running short on excuses as it is, and next season, he has potential to run out completely.

That said, I'm still optimistic that we can get there, and that the young talent is in place to do it. I wish the light bulb would come on this weekend. But it either does or it doesn't. If it doesn't, we go steal Kentucky's coach again**

 

[CadaverDawg]

You are obviously one of those douchewads that gets his feelings hurt when he is proven to be an idiot in a previous thread, so now you're hunting my posts and making message board tough comments. Right? Are you all bowed up and hitting the refresh button awaiting my response? I think your post helped determine the tool in this thread.

I never said anything about 100% awesome, Cohen rules, best ever, or any of that nonsense you just posted...I simply called u out for being so tard- strong and changing your stance a thousand times. And obviously, it struck a nerve it appears.
You want to act all-knowing and then spew stupidity, and you got called out. Now dry your tears, spit out your pacifier, and learn how to still be able to have a conversation even after you've been humbled.

The Dawgs will probably play well next year, hopefully be a HIGH #2 seed(bc a low 2 wouldnt meet your approval), and may even make Another Super. And then all will be right with the world, and you won't have to walk in his office and tell him to pack his **** because he didn't improve to your standards.

 

[Dubs.sixpack]

He isn't going to recover. Labrum is still one of those things that pitchers rarely fully recover from without having continuous setbacks. I wouldn't count on him<div>
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