Sorry if Germans: Crxxm Documentary Airing Tuesday on ESPNU
- Thread starter tupelodawg118
- Start date
Truth.
That video made my blood boil. 2 of the worst things that ever happened to this school, athletically speaking.
You can say whatever you want about Croom, and I sure as hell have said my 2 cents worth of smack about him.... but after this clip, I may give the man a break and say thank you for your service!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Eo0dv2UmE&feature=player_embedded
At the end of the day, he can still hold his head high that he left his heart on the field and that he gave the members of his team his entire heart!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Eo0dv2UmE&feature=player_embedded
At the end of the day, he can still hold his head high that he left his heart on the field and that he gave the members of his team his entire heart!
Listen closely to what he says. He's telling the players that they "won't win" while they're there but they're building a foundation. Yeah right....that's really what they want to hear. The more this guy talks, the more stupid he sounds. What he's doing is making excuses for himself...again. God, I can't believe we put up with this clown for five freaking years. I'll watch it and laugh.
There's blowing it up and rebuilding it, which I get, we had a lot of issues.
But after blowing it up, then instead of starting to build, he opts to take the pieces and chunk them into a chipper shredder, then soak those remnants in kerosene and light them up, well, that's inexcusable.
With a win on Saturday, Mullen will have tied Croom's win totals in four of his five years. It's still September.
But after blowing it up, then instead of starting to build, he opts to take the pieces and chunk them into a chipper shredder, then soak those remnants in kerosene and light them up, well, that's inexcusable.
With a win on Saturday, Mullen will have tied Croom's win totals in four of his five years. It's still September.
But in Croom's and other people's eyes- that could NOT have happened if it weren't for Croom's "foundation"....what a crock of ****.
Croom was not a great college coach. I don't think anyone will argue that. But at the same time he did reset our program. I am pretty sure you would hear the same from Mullen.
Croom's biggest fault is that he was too stubborn to change with the game. He could not move beyond the old school approach to designing an offense to compete in the SEC. IF he had the talent level of LSU and Alabama, he might have been able to compete with the grind it out offense approach, but he didn't. He also really learned the recruiting aspect too late in his tenure.
He did change the mindset of our players though. We did have some very tough defensive teams before he left. I tend to look at his tenure as more of a development stage that helped Dan turn us around quicker. Yeah, we are not MNC contenders yet, but Dan did not have to start from scratch when he got here.
Croom's biggest fault is that he was too stubborn to change with the game. He could not move beyond the old school approach to designing an offense to compete in the SEC. IF he had the talent level of LSU and Alabama, he might have been able to compete with the grind it out offense approach, but he didn't. He also really learned the recruiting aspect too late in his tenure.
He did change the mindset of our players though. We did have some very tough defensive teams before he left. I tend to look at his tenure as more of a development stage that helped Dan turn us around quicker. Yeah, we are not MNC contenders yet, but Dan did not have to start from scratch when he got here.
In five years, Croom was 21-38 (35.5%) overall, 10-30 (25%) in the SEC. Croom won one bowl game, the liberty bowl, in 2007.
The three years and three game, Mullen is 24-17 (58.5%) overall, 10-15 (40%) in the SEC. Mullen has won two bowl games, in 2010 (Gator) and 2011 (Music City).
In three years and three games, Mullen has surpassed Croom's five year total of overall wins and matched his overall number of SEC wins.
The three years and three game, Mullen is 24-17 (58.5%) overall, 10-15 (40%) in the SEC. Mullen has won two bowl games, in 2010 (Gator) and 2011 (Music City).
In three years and three games, Mullen has surpassed Croom's five year total of overall wins and matched his overall number of SEC wins.
and we gave his fat *** our entire checkbook. If he had been as dedicated to MSU as he was to Woody 17ing McCorvey we would have been way better off. I have nothing for Sylvester Croom at all.
I would still argue that his biggest fault was his loyalty. Had he not been so damn loyal to his buddies and made changes to his staff who knows what could have happend.
Croom was damn good at one thing, speaking and motivation. Had he just been smart enough to surround himself with good people and not his friends, allowed them to do their jobs and held them accountable...I think he would have been fine. But he refused to hold his assistant coaches feet to the fire and in the end that cost him his job.
Croom was damn good at one thing, speaking and motivation. Had he just been smart enough to surround himself with good people and not his friends, allowed them to do their jobs and held them accountable...I think he would have been fine. But he refused to hold his assistant coaches feet to the fire and in the end that cost him his job.
Well, he did pay the price for that you know.......
It's not like he got out of this unscathed. I'm sure he doesn't like being a failure, and I know he'd rather be coaching at MSU, near his hometown and family, than some obscure NFL team somewhere. I mean, you act like he waltzed out of here with our nuts in his hand. WE FIRED HIM! Not the other way around. If he could go back, I'm pretty sure he'd have turned loose of the reins and hired a good OC a year or two earlier.
It's not like he got out of this unscathed. I'm sure he doesn't like being a failure, and I know he'd rather be coaching at MSU, near his hometown and family, than some obscure NFL team somewhere. I mean, you act like he waltzed out of here with our nuts in his hand. WE FIRED HIM! Not the other way around. If he could go back, I'm pretty sure he'd have turned loose of the reins and hired a good OC a year or two earlier.
I don't think I can disagree with any of that, but I would file it still under the too stubborn to change his offensive philosophy. A big Croom supporter who was not happy with Croom leaving told me that the man was going to change offensive coordinators and should have been given the chance to try this before he went out the door. I simply replied that Croom had ample time to do that prior to leaving, but he never showed any interest in doing so till he thought his 10 years might be in jeopardy.
I always kind of liked croom as a person, but can't believe we didn't fire him after 2006 - three years that included two losses to UM, two losses to UK, embarrassing losses to Maine, Tulane, UAB (almost twice), and Houston (who really wasn't anything special in 2005)
Some of y'all are as ignorant as they come.
He didn't want the job. He said it while he was here and he says it in that preview of the show. He took the job because he felt obligated by his African American counterparts. Knowing that, do you honestly think he cared one bit about this place? He's getting paid and getting a documentary made after him 10 years later regardless if he ever wins a game.
People try to act like we were SO bad we HAD to blow up the program and start over. The 2003 team had talent. As much talent as any of Croom's teams. They were poorly coached and JWS is to blaim for that. Add an offensive line and put that team through a summer with [name any coach other than JWS at the time] and they win more than they did.
I'm sick and tired of Croom getting credit for rebuilding this team. The team he dumped on Dan was terrible.
He didn't want the job. He said it while he was here and he says it in that preview of the show. He took the job because he felt obligated by his African American counterparts. Knowing that, do you honestly think he cared one bit about this place? He's getting paid and getting a documentary made after him 10 years later regardless if he ever wins a game.
People try to act like we were SO bad we HAD to blow up the program and start over. The 2003 team had talent. As much talent as any of Croom's teams. They were poorly coached and JWS is to blaim for that. Add an offensive line and put that team through a summer with [name any coach other than JWS at the time] and they win more than they did.
I'm sick and tired of Croom getting credit for rebuilding this team. The team he dumped on Dan was terrible.
Mullen is a football God. He's fornunate to have had good defenses. If not for that his record would be worse than Croom's. But he's an offensive genius. Had things gone Mullen's way, Tyler would not be on this team; that's a fact. All coaches are loyal to their friends, guys they trust. If it wasn't for loyalty, Hevesy wouldn't be a MSU coach...OLs have sucked and he has recruited no one. Croom... fat and lazy, rode a golf cart (who cares that is hip-joints were gone), a clown, not smart enough to surround himself with "good" people, just please use the other adjective that's burning your brain, the one at the root of your true feelings....I'm convinced that some people are really unaware of what truly lies inside of them. It saddens me to accept that deep down inside, we are the same as Johnny Rebel.
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Back in early 04 I was trying to decide on a username for this board. After hearing Croom speak a couple of times I decided on slydawg. As fate would have it, after a night of heavy drinking watching the basketball team I signed up as pbrme. Thank God for alcohol.
You don't seem to understand how this works.
Mullen isn't fortunate to have a good defense. He has a good defense because he demands it. When Torbush sucked, Mullen ran him off and got a good DC. When that DC was hired to a new program, Mullen had a plan in place and hired a good replacement who he had been allowing to train to be DC, although I'm sure he was obviously expecting him to get more experience before being moved to coordinator. Crooms had a good defense because he made a good hire for DC, probably the best single decision he made while he was at State. But when he lost him, he hired his buddy career position coach who obviously was a position coach for a reason.
Also, while coaches are usually loyal to their friends, most coaches are also loyal to their players. Crooms was probably a good man in a lot of ways, but when it came to addressing his own stubbornness or his buddies' incompetence, his loyalty to his players didn't go too far.
And have you really convinced yourself that people's problems with Crooms some how have to do with race? When the Kang lost to Troy St., were there a bunch of people around you saying "good thing Jackie's white, otherwise we'd probably be upset about losing to a team that we should be able to outtalent on our worst days"? After the Maine, were people around you saying "I don't mind losing to a Division I-AA team that barely has a football program, I just wish we would do it with a coach that wasn't black"? If that's what happened, you probably need to find some people out there that aren't idiots and racists to be around; there are plenty to choose from. If you just pulled the idea out of your ***, you just need to stop being stupid. It may be hard, but you should at least try.
Mullen isn't fortunate to have a good defense. He has a good defense because he demands it. When Torbush sucked, Mullen ran him off and got a good DC. When that DC was hired to a new program, Mullen had a plan in place and hired a good replacement who he had been allowing to train to be DC, although I'm sure he was obviously expecting him to get more experience before being moved to coordinator. Crooms had a good defense because he made a good hire for DC, probably the best single decision he made while he was at State. But when he lost him, he hired his buddy career position coach who obviously was a position coach for a reason.
Also, while coaches are usually loyal to their friends, most coaches are also loyal to their players. Crooms was probably a good man in a lot of ways, but when it came to addressing his own stubbornness or his buddies' incompetence, his loyalty to his players didn't go too far.
And have you really convinced yourself that people's problems with Crooms some how have to do with race? When the Kang lost to Troy St., were there a bunch of people around you saying "good thing Jackie's white, otherwise we'd probably be upset about losing to a team that we should be able to outtalent on our worst days"? After the Maine, were people around you saying "I don't mind losing to a Division I-AA team that barely has a football program, I just wish we would do it with a coach that wasn't black"? If that's what happened, you probably need to find some people out there that aren't idiots and racists to be around; there are plenty to choose from. If you just pulled the idea out of your ***, you just need to stop being stupid. It may be hard, but you should at least try.
Where is this proof you have that Mullen did not want the highest rated QB in MS Tyler's senior year?
OL's have sucked? Which one? the one from three years ago where he took a bunch of guys that underperformed turned them around? The one from last year that was thin, riddled with injury and had to count on a converted DL, freshmen and sophmores that had never started? Or the one from this year that thus far has lived above everyone's expectation?
Other "adjective"? Which one is that because the only other words I can think of is decent 17'n coaches.
We (I) do not have anythign in common with "Johnny Rebel". Maybe whatever agenda you are pushing has YOU to ignorant to know what your "true feelings" deep down inside are. I know for a fact what my beliefs are and I comfortable with that.
And just for the record, I believe that Croom was a good man that surrounded himself with ****** coaches, nothing more, nothing less. He was loyal to this band of ****** coaches and it cost him his job. Did he do everything perfectly, no, did he do everything as poorly as some here make it seem, no. The truth of it lies soemwhere in the middle as it does with most things. But at the end of the day he was hired to build a program and WIN games. He did not do that so he had to go.
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Thanks for clearing that up for me, Buddy. I apologize for my stupidity. I hope after 4 years, he demands a good offensive line. We couldn't play our best QB last year because of the lack-luster OL. I hope SEC teams don't hurt him. Let's pray that the loyalty to the grad student (who should have remained one) does hurt our program to badly.
Shut the 17 up.
"I'm convinced that some people are really unaware of what truly lies inside of them. It saddens me to accept that deep down inside, we are the same as Johnny Rebel."
Get out of here with that lame, tired ****. I too, was glad to see Croom go. And it had absolutely NOTHING to do with race. I couldn't care less that he is black.
I can't stand people like you.
"I'm convinced that some people are really unaware of what truly lies inside of them. It saddens me to accept that deep down inside, we are the same as Johnny Rebel."
Get out of here with that lame, tired ****. I too, was glad to see Croom go. And it had absolutely NOTHING to do with race. I couldn't care less that he is black.
I can't stand people like you.
Why do people not understand that Tyler didn't play last year because we didn't have the personnel? The WRs were not good enough last year to run the offense we do this year? Why is it so hard to understand that the OL was young, injuried and thin at each spot? Why is it so hard to understand that using Relf and the read option last year was our best chance for success?
It's a lot easier to run block then it is to pass block and using the personnel we had, including the WR that couldn't get open fast enough, wouldl have gotten Tyler killed. Is that so hard for you to grasp?
the tough defensive teams were due to Ellis Johnson. Other than that, there were no bright spots.
I didn't think he was a good speaker at all. Between the "uhs" and the "Winston Churchill "say" kind of stuff, I thought his speaking skills were pathetic.
Correct. Mullen has given us 3 of the 4 best offenses in school history, and this offense is better than the previous ones.
But go ahead and overlook this in your ignorant agenda... Funny, I see 3 Jackie teams in the top 10 and 3 Mullen teams, but where are the Croom teams?
Want to talk defensive rankings?
currently tied 20th
2011-16th
2010-21st
2009-71st
2008-60th
2007-35th
2006-83rd
2005-44th
2004-60th
Croom shares plenty of blame for our OL woes in 2011. PLENTY. He recruited exactly ONE OL that wasn't a bust in each of the 08 and 09 classes(one of the two has been injured his entire career), leaving us with the hole that killed us last year. Yes, Mullen shares the blame for not getting sufficient JUCO help to plug that gap. Yet, Mullen recruited HALF of our current 2-deep OL in the 2010 class. HALF. IN ONE CLASS.
Quit pretending we've had bad OL play over Mullen's entire tenure. That is ignorant. We had tremendous line play in both 2009 and 2010. In 2010 we were one of the best OL's in the country. Go back and watch a few of those games. Relf had literally all day to throw it. But since 2011 was lackluster, you label the entire tenure as the same.
Looks to me like Mullen has it rolling with his OL chock full of rsSO's...
The biggest difference between Croom and Mullen...
One said I can't win there, it's a mess, it will take forever, I don't really want it, etc.
One said I'll take it before he even took a trip to Starkville.
Croom knew he could not win. Mullen never had a moment's doubt he couldn't.
One said I can't win there, it's a mess, it will take forever, I don't really want it, etc.
One said I'll take it before he even took a trip to Starkville.
Croom knew he could not win. Mullen never had a moment's doubt he couldn't.
Correct. Mullen has given us 3 of the 4 best offenses in school history, and this offense is better than the previous ones.
But go ahead and overlook this in your ignorant agenda... Funny, I see 3 Jackie teams in the top 10 and 3 Mullen teams, but where are the Croom teams?
Want to talk defensive rankings?
currently tied 20th
2011-16th
2010-21st
2009-71st
2008-60th
2007-35th
2006-83rd
2005-44th
2004-60th
People, for the love of everything holy...stop bating Engie. He brings the mother17ing wood!
Ok, ok, ok. I agree, Mullen is a good football coach; Croom was not. But why is it so upsetting that ESPN is doing this documentary? Why do we still have to run this man over every time his name is mentioned. Why couldn't this documentary be a good thing. I mean, could it not be a counter to all the bad press Miss. gets. Why is it bad that ESPN will tell the country that the first SEC african-american coach was hired by a Mississippi university. Why is there such much hate for him. Whether he helped the program or not can be debated. But he's not the only coach that has left the program in bad condition. In fact, "bad" has been the condition of our program much of my 40+ years of following it. "Can't stand people like me"....please don't explain. Let's just get over this Croom thing. I have no agenda, other than to raise our conscious about how we attack Croom, even if stats and history proves him to be the worst coach in the history of the game.
On the issue of race, I grew up white in Miss. Even though Croom didin't succeed as our coach, it doesn't prove that my Paw-Paw was right. I hope that this post doesn't get me banned. I sorry that my comments are "stupid," "ignorant," and offensive.
(1) It's not a bad thing that ESPN is doing the documentary. I haven't seen it, but there is definitely the potential for them to make MSU and Mississippi look bad. Doing the documentary that way will be more interesting than telling the true story:
MSU hired a black head coach. It was a feel good moment and showed that black coaches could get a fair shake in the SEC. Unfortunately he was not very good. Still good that it happened, if not for MSU, at least for the SEC and blacks in the coaching profession.
I'm not optimistic that it will be covered that way.
(2) People still "run this man down" because people still remember how bad it sucked to have him as a coach. Keep in mind that the things people say about Croom are on a message board and in the context of football. Even when people are saying things that are relatively personal, the reality is they are only talking about him as a football coach. Croom was not a good coach. There were some relatively minor personal flaws that were magnified when he was put in the very difficult position of trying to do a very difficult, very public job that he was not competent for. While there were some flaws of his that contributed to him being a terrible SEC head coach, he was mostly a terrible SEC head coach because that's what over 99% of the population would be. If somebody actually treated him poorly, or did something that negatively impacted in him in any way (other than firing/refusing to hire him for a coaching position) other than simply venting to a message board, simply because he was a ****** coach, that person would have clear personal problems. I would hope anybody that encountered him in person would be cordial and ignore his incompetence as a football coach just like you would ignore the incompetence of your relative/friend/neighbor etc. when you deal with them. I would hope and bet that most anybody would actually be impressed with his life story. WHile he was a ****** SEC football coach, he is by no means a failure.
(3) As far as him not being the only person to leave the program in ****** condition, he was the last one. And the coach before Croom that left the program in bad condition was also the one who happened to build the program, so he understandably gets a pass for the most part (although he didn't at the time it happened). You have to go back, what, 25 years to get to the last coach before that that left the team in bad condition. Time heals a lot of wounds. Also, if Crooms talked fondly of MSU in public, and talked about while he ended up not being the right fit to turn MSU into a consistent winner, but he appreciated the opportunity to coach and be a part of the university and to be associated with his players, he'd end up a beloved figure at MSU. Maybe the documentary will be the start of that.
I agree with most of this. I just don't understand why you brought race into the discussion at all. I understand that it will be the topic on tv and all, and just hope truly HOPE it projects us in a good light. Because it easily could twist a bunch of negatives into the story that ends up making us look bad. That is what people here are worried about. Croom can either make us look really good or really bad in this documentary. He has almost unchecked unilateral power in this regard...
In the context of this message board discussion, race shouldn't have been mentioned. Has nothing at all to do with 99.9% of State fans' feelings toward Croom. It took a long time for us to "forgive" Jackie for how things ended, and it will also take us awhile on Croom. We still haven't forgiven Polk either. The difference between Jackie and Croom is that it is OBVIOUS that Jackie still loves our university and cares deeply about seeing us succeed, hence why he makes almost every home game, writes a weekly State article, and keeps in touch with our coaching staff. I've heard very little to nothing from Croom doing anything similar. Maybe he can and will one day.
It's a simple principle in life...Defend what you ARE, but never defend what you are NOT. The brain doesn't successfully process the word no/not. Saying something like "I am not a racist" only brings the topic of racism up. That is literally the only word in that sentence that the brain processes. No one here was mentioning race in their disdain, just facts/stats of how inept our team was under Croom, but bringing it up has turned this thread into something it was never meant to be. Try to do this daily... instead of saying "no I am not going to do that", say "this is what I am going to do". You will be AMAZED by how much your communication and connection improves with others...
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I disliked having him as OUR coach but he was a farkers dream. glass 1/2 full
/a couple of my favorites
//the Crooms death mask was shown on campus by a history professor in a powerpoint
///can't believe how many people didn't get the second one. Andy Kennedy (right after the international incident) as Andy Dufrene being walked in as fresh fish at Shawshank Prison and Crooms doing some of the cheering.
/a couple of my favorites
//the Crooms death mask was shown on campus by a history professor in a powerpoint
///can't believe how many people didn't get the second one. Andy Kennedy (right after the international incident) as Andy Dufrene being walked in as fresh fish at Shawshank Prison and Crooms doing some of the cheering.