Spending bill appears to be a liberals wet dream

[atlkvb]

We're spending more money we don't have, I thought this is what you folks wanted?

This is what you lead with and it's wrong on all fronts, at least for me.

Biff was never about cohesive policies to make the country better. He was about knee jerk position statements that people wanted to hear. Now it's all finally going to **** and he's racking up a bigger bill than Obama would have had. The net effect of his saber rattling is zero.

OK bamEER, you're right about Trump. so tell me what would make the Left happy if more trillions in deficit spending represented by this budget proposal doesn't?

You've made your distaste for Trump clear.

Now state your case on the Left counter to his budget proposal. Where are its flaws, and what's your (Left's) better alternatives to cut spending, balance the budget, and save this country from fiscal insolvency?

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Coop, how much of this budget was Trump's proposal? Are you blaming him for not getting his priorities enacted, or are you blaming him for not stopping this?

I get that you're criticizing him, but for what?

He never talked about reducing the deficit. He talked about moving department money around to punish departments he didn't like. Campaigned not to touch entitlements. Campaigned on tax cuts. Campaigned on a massive federal infrastructure program. You think he's going to become a budget hawk this fall?

 

[atlkvb]

To me he's still an enigma, and not the good kind lately. He cannot keep caving and moving to the center or god forbid the left if he hopes to maintain his very angry and vocal base. I don't know his motivations and he may be playing some sort of long game, but if he is then he's playing a dangerous game and he better know what TF he's doing.

Agreed. Which is why I answered you the way I did. I'm not sure this is really to his liking, but he's not letting us know one way or the other.

He gets another shot for the next fiscal year that begins in October. We'll have a better answer to what he's willing to lead a fight for by then.

I'm not dejected, just very frustrated right now Brushy Bill.

 

[bamaEER]

We, or at least I, am mocking Trump voters for thinking Trump would do anything to the deficit, and now I get to sit back and watch all of his supporters slowly realize that, but must will be too proud to admit it. He campaigned against any entitlement reform, for a ginormous infrastructure bill, and other massive big government projects. lmao. I will continue to root for his failure and mock his supporters, but please...continue to say I am the one that doesn't care about our debt? Good one.

Bingo

 

[atlkvb]

He never talked about reducing the deficit. He talked about moving department money around to punish departments he didn't like. Campaigned not to touch entitlements. Campaigned on tax cuts. Campaigned on a massive federal infrastructure program. You think he's going to become a budget haw this fall?

I'm not sure Coop, honestly I don't know. I thought he believed in limited Government. I thought he believed in lower taxes. I thought he was for fiscal accountability.

I don't see him reneging on any of that, I just don't see him trying to convince the linguini spine Congressional representatives that this is what they too all promised to the voters.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

I'm not sure Coop, honestly I don't know. I thought he believed in limited Government. I thought he was for fiscal accountability.

Truly, truly baffling to me.

 

[Brushy Bill]

Agreed. Which is why I answered you the way I did. I'm not sure this is really to his liking, but he's not letting us know one way or the other.

He gets another shot for the next fiscal year that begins in October. We'll have a better answer to what he's willing to lead a fight for by then.

I'm not dejected, just very frustrated right now Brushy Bill.

I'm frustrated as well, but he had the opportunity to lay the hammer down on the RINOs after the **** storm over the asinine healthcare bill and he didn't do it.

 

[atlkvb]

Truly, truly baffling to me.

I'll continue to believe Trump knows why he was elected Coop. No Republican voting for this budget promised it to their voters.

Not one.

So I have to believe they understand at least what the voters were trying to say when they gave these goof ball doofis bureaucrats their votes last Fall. Why they don't understand that when it comes time to vote does make me scratch my balding fat head.

Surely they can't believe we (Trump voters) are happy with this monstrosity?

 

[bamaEER]

OK bamEER, you're right about Trump. so tell me what would make the Left happy if more trillions in deficit spending represented by the budget proposal doesn't?

You've made your distaste for Trump clear.

Now state your case on the Left counter to his budget proposal. Where are its flaws, and what's your (Left's) better alternatives to cut spending, balance the budget, and save this country from fiscal insolvency?

First off, I'm not left, I'm way more moderate.
Let's start with fiscal policies like entitlement reform.

 

[atlkvb]

I'm frustrated as well, but he had the opportunity to lay the hammer down on the RINOs after the **** storm over the asinine healthcare bill and he didn't do it.

True, which is why I'm reserving final judgement on him. He was not my first choice, and this is part of the reason why.

What does he believe? What are his core principles?

What is he willing to fight for?

Or is it all about him?

Maybe the Lefties are right at least on that part of him. But that's not why he was elected.

 

[atlkvb]

First off, I'm not left, I'm way more moderate.
Let's start with fiscal policies like entitlement reform.

Agreed! So what do we do with them? How do we convince the Left they are failed experiments at Socialism that are bankrupting us?

 

[bamaEER]

Agreed! So what do we do with them? How do we convince the Left they are failed experiments at Socialism that are bankrupting us?

He hasn't even gone there.

 

[atlkvb]

He hasn't even gone there.

Agreed again bamaEER. But my question to you is what do we do with them?

I am certainly for reforming them (even eliminating them over time) but how do you convince Statist centered Leftists this is the way to go?

 

[bamaEER]

He never talked about reducing the deficit. He talked about moving department money around to punish departments he didn't like. Campaigned not to touch entitlements. Campaigned on tax cuts. Campaigned on a massive federal infrastructure program. You think he's going to become a budget hawk this fall?

Exactly. Kill the EPA, but make military bigger.

All fluff for knuckledraggers to chew on.

 

[bamaEER]

Agreed again bamaEER. But my question to you is what do we do with them?

I am certainly for reforming them (even eliminating them over time) but how do you convince Statist centered Leftists this is the way to go?

Vote for a president/congress to fix them.

 

[atlkvb]

Vote for a president/congress to fix them.

Agreed again bamaEER. This is highly unusual. I'm agreeing with an OT poster who generally gets under my skin!

But I have to admit, you are correct Sir. It's up to the voters to fix this, and insist on our elected representatives to follow through on it.

That's how our system works. Or at least how it's supposed to.

 

[Brushy Bill]

Getting the EPA out of the pseudoscience biz in now considered "killing" the EPA. Liberal logic is a hoot.

 

[atlkvb]

Getting the EPA out of the pseudoscience biz in now considered "killing" the EPA. Liberal logic is a hoot.

I'm for protecting our environment, I just don't think you need a multi layered, bloated, inefficient, ineffective massive Government bureaucracy to do it!

Change the EPA (Environmental Protection agency) into the EPA *(Everybody protects all).

We clean up our own messes better than any bureaucrat anyway.

Save the EPA money for something we really need help doing, like building fast Jets and powerful Tanks to defeat our sworn enemies.

 

[Keyser76]

I'm for protecting our environment, I just don't think you need a multi layered, bloated, inefficient, ineffective massive Government bureaucracy to do it!

Change the EPA (Environmental Protection agency) into the EPA *(Everybody protects all).

We clean up our own messes better than any bureaucrat anyway.

Save the EPA money for something we really need help doing, like building fast Jets and powerful Tanks to defeat our sworn enemies.

Obviously you choose not to look at how it was when there was no EPA. We clean up our own messes, you are as simple as the President. The only reason anyone is against the EPA are either people running corporations that hate the regulations or folks like you that the corporations lobbyist have convinced it is a waste of money. Yeah, lets get rid of the GOP initiated EPA because, I don't know, Donald said so?

 

[bamaEER]

Getting the EPA out of the pseudoscience biz in now considered "killing" the EPA. Liberal logic is a hoot.

Biff's initial proposed cuts went way beyond climate change.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...to-staff-and-programs/?utm_term=.d2cece97e104

It was a thoughtless approach that he thankfully backed off from...for now.

 

[atlkvb]

Obviously you choose not to look at how it was when there was no EPA. We clean up our own messes, you are as simple as the President. The only reason anyone is against the EPA are either people running corporations that hate the regulations or folks like you that the corporations lobbyist have convinced it is a waste of money. Yeah, lets get rid of the GOP initiated EPA because, I don't know, Donald said so?

Keyer, do you clean up your own mess at home?

Well why can't we (as a society) keep our home clean?

Corporations are not amorphous things my friend. They are people, run by people, employing people, serving people.

I trust people, why don't you?

 

[bamaEER]

Keyer, do you clean up your own mess at home?

Well why can't we (as a society) keep our home clean?

Corporations are not amorphous things my friend. They are people, run by people, employing people, serving people.

I trust people, why don't you?

EPA was formed because we sucked at cleaning up our own messes

 

[bamaEER]

EPA was formed because we sucked at cleaning up our own messes

https://www.health.ny.gov/environme...alth_advisories/regional/adirondack.htm#table

 

[atlkvb]

EPA was formed because we sucked at cleaning up our own messes

The EPA doesn't go in and clean up messes. Why would companies that live in this country too along with the rest of us so muck it up that it's unlivable even for them?

There is only one planet, they live here too. They drink the water, breathe the air, eat the food.

Why wouldn't they want to keep it clean for themselves too? If the EPA is so great at preventing messes and cleaning them up, why are they always complaining about messes and cleanups?

What exactly is it that they prevent, or even clean up after a mess has been made?

 

[Keyser76]

Keyer, do you clean up your own mess at home?

Well why can't we (as a society) keep our home clean?

Corporations are not amorphous things my friend. They are people, run by people, employing people, serving people.

I trust people, why don't you?

Lol, you are too simple to even discuss with, yeah, a Dow chemical plant just like keeping my house clean. Why did the GOP ever create the EPA in the first place?

 

[atlkvb]

Why did the GOP ever create the EPA in the first place?

I'm still trying to answer that question Keyser76!

What did we do before the EPA was created? Were we living under piles of filth? Did we not have a way to clean up our messes before them?

Have they stopped our messes, or do they clean them up now afterwards?

 

[EEResistable]

No change in behavior at all.

I'm just about done.

No difference in Dems and Repubs.

 

[Brushy Bill]

I'm for protecting our environment, I just don't think you need a multi layered, bloated, inefficient, ineffective massive Government bureaucracy to do it!

Change the EPA (Environmental Protection agency) into the EPA *(Everybody protects all).

We clean up our own messes better than any bureaucrat anyway.

Save the EPA money for something we really need help doing, like building fast Jets and powerful Tanks to defeat our sworn enemies.

If they started throwing CEOs in jail when their companies polluted the water/air/land then things would get fixed real quick.

 

[bamaEER]

There is only one planet, they live here too. They drink the water, breathe the air, eat the food.

You do realize that Scott Pruitt sued the EPA to have MATS (Mercury and Air Toxics Standards) stripped from Oklahoma's coal plants....twice. He lost. These same rules are the reason mercury levels are dropping slowly, but still dropping in northeast waters.

We can't be trusted.

 

[Brushy Bill]

Biff's initial proposed cuts went way beyond climate change.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...to-staff-and-programs/?utm_term=.d2cece97e104

It was a thoughtless approach that he thankfully backed off from...for now.

And he's wrong to back off.

 

[Brushy Bill]

The EPA should perform its original function and ensure that pollutants are kept out of our air and waterways.

C02 is NOT a pollutant.

 

[bamaEER]

And he's wrong to back off.

If there was substance behind his proposal that would be one thing. But his approach was baseless and unjustified. He's not going to win any of those and he now knows it.

 

[bamaEER]

The EPA should perform its original function and ensure that pollutants are kept out of our air and waterways.

C02 is NOT a pollutant.

His proposal originally would have impaired the EPA's function to t=do that very thing, especially in the Great Lakes.

CO2 is a pollutant if at levels that harm the environment.

 

[atlkvb]

We can't be trusted.

If you believe this, what is it about the EPA that makes you trust them?

Are they not also a collection of people? Who are they responsible for? Who do they answer to? Who monitors their efficiency? Who measures their effectiveness?

Corporations have shareholders, employees, and customers as answers to those questions.

Who does the EPA answer to?

 

[Brushy Bill]

His proposal originally would have impaired the EPA's function to t=do that very thing, especially in the Great Lakes.

Then that was wrong. Keeping the air and water clean should be the only order of business.

CO2 is a pollutant if at levels that harm the environment.

We don't even know what those levels are and what we do know is the current levels are having no little to no net negative effect on global temperatures but are causing "gloabal greening", a sort of "if you feed them they will grow" conundrum for the AGW alarmists

 

[mneilmont]

Full on entitlement reform.

Damn, you are taking a firm stance. You believe in "more deficit reduction than Trump". That is a very firm suggestion that you feel very strongly "BOTH WAYS". Then you are very strongly "entitlement reform".

It is very soft when you say you "believe". Just what the hell do you believe? Deceptive rhetoric? Or, can you hide with no strong feelings for or against a bit of what everyone is saying above? Can you really say, without question, that you have committed to a position at any time in the past? An evasive response like "don't give a f what you feel about how I feel" is equally not taking a position on which to evaluate your stance.

The only evaluation we can state with certainty regarding this CR, Trump is willing to join a bunch of predecessors who is willing to "kick the can down the road". Look at this CR. It is full of items that were going to be the "first things" his administration would reverse. EPA cut 1%? Wow, that is a strong as a Coop position. Funding for socialist and liberal items? Will address those things in next year budget. Steer clear of anything Chuck Schmucker calls a "poison pill". Don't want to do anything that Dems could point to as Reps "shut down" and allow Media to pile on.

Conservatives wanted GDP over 2% and return of good paying jobs. Economy, economy, and economy to turn around with acceptable growth.

Laughable that military bump of $25 billion for a military that is operating with tape an chicken wire. Mrs Obama got $250 million for a pet program of education of women in foreign countries and, it was unknown to nearly everyone.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

No, Rand Paul was the best candidate in the field, he takes the best parts of his fathers political philosophy and is infinitely better at dealing with the other members of Congress than his dad. He said pretty much all the same things Trump did, he just didn't have Trumps flair.

At least you admit Trump wasn't the best candidate in the field.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

What you guys don't realize is that you've created the monster that's going to devour you.

I see it as exactly the opposite ... you guys that are so far right that they can't see the middle and spout about "the only peaceful" outcome as if we are on the brink of civil war are destroying any credibility that the right had leading into these elections.

You are the loons.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

It is very soft when you say you "believe". Just what the hell do you believe? Deceptive rhetoric? Or, can you hide with no strong feelings for or against a bit of what everyone is saying above? Can you really say, without question, that you have committed to a position at any time in the past? An evasive response like "don't give a f what you feel about how I feel" is equally not taking a position on which to evaluate your stance.

SS: Raise the retirement age. Privatize a portion for younger taxpayers. Reduce future benefits
Medi: Death panels. We really need to discuss Quality of life and how much of that should be paid for by taxpayers.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

Alt-right is libertarian with a spine. [winking]

Couldn't be further from the truth.