State of college basketball

[esplanade91]

First, I would like to apologize for not making a baseball thread talking about how we're screwed, someone hates us, or calling out a different poster for being stupid.

I remember a bunch of people complaining about the college game all throughout the season, fans here, fans in general, talking heads, about how it has become so boring to watch because coaches have made defense their main priority instead of guys flying around the court scoring.

I was watching the pre-game show for this game 4 between SA and Memphis and they were debating the 3rd best team in the NBA and none of them thought it was Memphis or Indiana.

That got me thinking, Memphis and Indiana aren't even close to being the most talented teams in the NBA and neither has an advantage over anyone by having a superior coach, but the two have a HUGE defensive presence on the court (I think Memphis and Indiana finished #1 and #2 in total defense).

College basketball had its lowest scoring average I think since the shot-clock in 2012-13. Is it here to stay? It looks like it's the small market's answer to superstar offensive weapons. Is that a good thing? Obviously there will always be scoring threats in the NBA, but with a more defensive oriented game in the NCAA do we see more 11 PPG/9 RPG/4 BPG guys like Hibbert becoming the norm? DeAndre Jordan and Tyson Chandler are worthless on offense but command big bucks, and I wouldn't want to face either in the paint on my way to the basket.

 

[Cow College]

In my opinion most of the problem I have with is the officiating and the rules. 35 second, 8 second, and halo rule should all e updated to MBA rules. There is just a lot of dribbling around with a 35 second clock

 

[thf24]

You're definitely on to something. I feel like the Grizz and Pacers have been as effective as they have been because their defense lets them slow down the game and give themselves a chance to keep up against superior offenses. However, I think it's also a weakness against teams who don't have an elite scorer but are solid all around like the Spurs, as evidenced by the WCF. Playing aggressive team defense usually requires someone being left open, which works well against top-heavy offenses like the Thunder and Heat, but seems to be kryptonite against balanced teams like the Spurs for whom everyone on the floor can hit an open jumper. For that reason, I don't know if the emphasis on defense in the NBA will spread; it might be viewed as a gimmick that can get you close to the top but never on it.

 

[mstateglfr]

I would love to see the NBA, in it's next malfunction of a CBA, change the age limit to come in at 18, or stay away til 21. Like baseball.

It would allow for the DLeague to become better at what it's supposed to be...a development league. Currently, draftees who go to the DLeague, especially 1st rounders, are often dismissed and written off as busts. In the MLB, it's a shock for anyone to not go to the minors. There is no stigma attached to playing in the minors for baseball.

This rule change would allow for college programs to better project long term rosters and create more team play as players stay together longer.
This would of course not solve all the issue of all the transfers, but hey, that's another thread.

Teams with better chemistry thru history with one another play better ball. There is more trust, a better understanding of what to do n offense and defense, and an idea of how others play. It'd be a huge benefit to college basketball.


The other thing I would love to see is ore attention to the rules by the refs. Leave all the ignoring of rules to the NBA. Calling players for holding someone's arm on a rebound each time it happens will force players to not do it. Applying this approach to this and other rules will open up the game because there won't be as much holding and body banging in the paint.

 

[esplanade91]

I would love to see the NBA, in it's next malfunction of a CBA, change the age limit to come in at 18, or stay away til 21. Like baseball.

It would allow for the DLeague to become better at what it's supposed to be...a development league. Currently, draftees who go to the DLeague, especially 1st rounders, are often dismissed and written off as busts. In the MLB, it's a shock for anyone to not go to the minors. There is no stigma attached to playing in the minors for baseball.

This rule change would allow for college programs to better project long term rosters and create more team play as players stay together longer.
This would of course not solve all the issue of all the transfers, but hey, that's another thread.

Teams with better chemistry thru history with one another play better ball. There is more trust, a better understanding of what to do n offense and defense, and an idea of how others play. It'd be a huge benefit to college basketball.


The other thing I would love to see is ore attention to the rules by the refs. Leave all the ignoring of rules to the NBA. Calling players for holding someone's arm on a rebound each time it happens will force players to not do it. Applying this approach to this and other rules will open up the game because there won't be as much holding and body banging in the paint.

I definitely think the D-League has caught on in popularity with NBA franchises but it's only financially viable for high grossing teams. The Pelicans just announced they will not have a D-League team, and the reason is they take funds from the NBA franchise and RARELY ever produce a solid prospect. It's a burden on the ownership and it doesn't pay off.

The difference in the MLB and NBA is baseball players play 3 different games before they get to the big show. The transition from high school to college and then college to the majors is bigger than any of the other major professional sports (hockey, soccer, football, basketball). They NEED a minor league system because that's when they're taught a lot of fundamentals that weren't necessary earlier in their careers that are a necessity at the next level, and they also have to adjust to new equipment and having to face a potential MLB star on friday nights and then two college-level friday night starters on saturdays and sundays.

Basketball is basketball and as Kobe, LeBron, and even to an extremely smaller extent Monta Ellis have shown you don't necessarily need that extra coaching if you have "it". I do think a minor league type deal would benefit guys like Varnado who aren't NBA players but could be if he had an NBA coach training him and NBA-level trainers to help him get into the kind of shape his position requires. The problem is there is a 19 year old coming out of every single school almost every year who has the measurables and same upside as a guy like Varnado and they don't potentially have to invest a buttload of cash in him to get him to the level they want him at. The NBA GM's, owners, and coaches gamble more than any other sport which is why there is a bust every single year in the top 1-10.

I think they should maybe add another round to the draft and do the same thing as the MLB and allow kids to get drafted out of high school but still go to college. If they don't like where they get drafted or get drafted in the 3rd round and feel disrespected they can go work on their college degree and be eligible 2 years from then. If a kid doesn't get drafted he should be required to do 2 years in school.

That aside, because of the college game and kids being required to go to college right now I think you're going to see a lot more Nerlins Noel type prospects (all defense, limited offense) than Damien Lilliard prospects, which may or may not be good for the NBA. I could see it becoming really boring or I could see every team in the league having a chance to make the finals every year.

***** Off topic: MLB is about to have a major overhaul on their high school/college draft process. NCAA has been calling for it for years and ole Bud is finally stepping down. I don't expect it to be major, but there be changes in the next 2-3 years. The statistics absolutely murder any argument that kids should go to the MLB if they get drafted early enough instead of going to a top-tier college program if their serious about getting to the show. College coaching has gotten ridiculous to the point where a lot of the better college coaches (ones that would attract top 10 round prospects) are better than the coaches they would see in their first 2-3 year anyway.

 

[dogfan96]

You're definitely on to something. I feel like the Grizz and Pacers have been as effective as they have been because their defense lets them slow down the game and give themselves a chance to keep up against superior offenses. However, I think it's also a weakness against teams who don't have an elite scorer but are solid all around like the Spurs, as evidenced by the WCF. Playing aggressive team defense usually requires someone being left open, which works well against top-heavy offenses like the Thunder and Heat, but seems to be kryptonite against balanced teams like the Spurs for whom everyone on the floor can hit an open jumper. For that reason, I don't know if the emphasis on defense in the NBA will spread; it might be viewed as a gimmick that can get you close to the top but never on it.

Any team that wins the NBA championship has an emphasis on defense. Miami is a top 5 defensive team in the NBA. Spurs are top 10. Just so happens that Miami has the best offense in basketball lead by the best player in basketball.
The Bulls with Jordan were always a great defensive team, the Spurs are traditionally good on defense. The Pistons in 04 were a defensive oriented team.

 

[esplanade91]

Any team that wins the NBA championship has an emphasis on defense. Miami is a top 5 defensive team in the NBA. Spurs are top 10. Just so happens that Miami has the best offense in basketball lead by the best player in basketball.
The Bulls with Jordan were always a great defensive team, the Spurs are traditionally good on defense. The Pistons in 04 were a defensive oriented team.

True, but Memphis doesn't have a single player that can score 37 points... The Spurs have potentially 3. The same with LeBron. He's easily the most underrated defensive player in the league because of his highlight reels on offense, but he's the greatest defensive SF in league history. That's my point though, he's THAT good on offense.

Miami, the Spurs, and the 04 Pistons are all well-rounded teams. Memphis and Indiana are not well-rounded. They have some dogs on their roster who are All-Stars on one end and mediocre on the other, which I'm asking if that's the new small-market NBA. It can't get you to the finals but it can help you get to 50 games and go deep in the playoffs, for a small-market isn't that enough? I'd be thrilled if my Pelicans had that success every couple of years... even if that meant suffering season after season with a PF as boring to watch as Z-Bo and a mediocre backcourt on offense.

 

[mstateglfr]

LeBron was on the ALL DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM this season.
How is he underrated?

 

[Jimbob Cooter]

NBA doesn't want to pay for a minor league/D-league/farm team system. They have AAU and college ball to do that for them. Until the populace wakes up, and sees this garbage for what it is (corrupt system ruing the game of basketball), guys like John Calipari will continue to reign supreme. I loved it when a team like Louisville won it all, with seniors and guys who actually bought into what college basketball is all about.

For the record I completely agree with you.

 

[seshomoru]

For the fifth season in a row.

LeBron was on the ALL DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM this season.
How is he underrated?

This whole argument about college basketball is simple... There aren't enough people on college basketball teams that can shoot worth a damn and most of the offenses schemes are horrendous. However, when given 35 seconds, you can move the ball around enough that the defense is bound to slip up at some point. Simply reducing the shot clock to 24 seconds and instituting a defensive 3 second rule would do wonders for the college offensive game.

 

[esplanade91]

LeBron was on the ALL DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM this season.
How is he underrated?

Do you think of his defense when you think of LeBron? The general public wants to match LeBron up against Kobe and MJ and they point to Kobe and MJ being able to score 60+ in games and completely ignore the fact that neither Kobe or MJ ever came close to being the entire package like James.

I didn't mean the media. I think he also finished in the top 3 for Defensive Player of the Year.

Offense is what people pay to see and what people remember superstars for. The NFL is moving to the side of "too much" and the NBA is moving to the end of "too little".

 

[seshomoru]

How so?

Do you think of his defense when you think of LeBron? The general public wants to match LeBron up against Kobe and MJ and they point to Kobe and MJ being able to score 60+ in games and completely ignore the fact that neither Kobe or MJ ever came close to being the entire package like James.

I didn't mean the media. I think he also finished in the top 3 for Defensive Player of the Year.

Offense is what people pay to see and what people remember superstars for. The NFL is moving to the side of "too much" and the NBA is moving to the end of "too little".

Possessions per 48 minutes and points/100 possessions has been pretty much level for the last 10 years. This year there were 92 possessions per team per 48 minutes and they averaged 105.9 points per 100 possessions. Highest over the last ten years has been 108 and 93 i think.

Don't let playoff basketball fool you. Defense always intensifies, so the best defensive teams usually do well, and scoring goes down.

 

[dogfan96]

True, but Memphis doesn't have a single player that can score 37 points... The Spurs have potentially 3. The same with LeBron. He's easily the most underrated defensive player in the league because of his highlight reels on offense, but he's the greatest defensive SF in league history. That's my point though, he's THAT good on offense.

Miami, the Spurs, and the 04 Pistons are all well-rounded teams. Memphis and Indiana are not well-rounded. They have some dogs on their roster who are All-Stars on one end and mediocre on the other, which I'm asking if that's the new small-market NBA. It can't get you to the finals but it can help you get to 50 games and go deep in the playoffs, for a small-market isn't that enough? I'd be thrilled if my Pelicans had that success every couple of years... even if that meant suffering season after season with a PF as boring to watch as Z-Bo and a mediocre backcourt on offense.

That's luck and good drafting.. Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili are the result of the Spurs having the best international scouting in the league. And of course winning the lottery and getting Tim Duncan helps too. Just like the Thunder.. they had a string of high lottery picks and they didn't miss on any of them. The Grizzlies had Rudy Gay but they chose to let him go for money reasons. They traded Kevin Love for O.J. Mayo (ouch).. Xavier Henry at #12 ... and Thabeet at #2 (ahead of James Harden).. so there you go.

 

[esplanade91]

Possessions per 48 minutes and points/100 possessions has been pretty much level for the last 10 years. This year there were 92 possessions per team per 48 minutes and they averaged 105.9 points per 100 possessions. Highest over the last ten years has been 108 and 93 i think.

Don't let playoff basketball fool you. Defense always intensifies, so the best defensive teams usually do well, and scoring goes down.

I guess I just followed some really crappy teams this year.

 

[dogfan96]

Louisville has seniors because none of them were good enough to go pro (other than maybe one of their young big guys). Siva and Russ Smith will be lifelong D-Leaguers/Euro-Leaguers

 

[patdog]

And it's good to see a team like that win it instead of a bunch of 1-and-done players.

 

[dogfan96]

I don't particularly like the way they play.. junk up the game with a bunch of fouling and they can't shoot the ball (other than Kevin Love Jr. whose name escapes me right now). Michigan plays a much more enjoyable brand of basketball to watch, which is all I really care about