Super Bowl 50 Thread
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Manning and Marino are the two best quarterbacks I've seen. And that's all they can do - play quarterback. Too many people focus on team accomplishments - wins and losses, playoffs, Super Bowls. QB has a say in that, but only partially. Montana was great, but had a specific skill set. How would he be remembered if he was drafted by, say, the Saints, who were horrible in the 80s? No Walsh, no west coast, no Rice or Taylor or Craig, no Lott. And I'd like to see what Brady would have done if he wasn't playing for the most stable franchise in the league and the best coach in history. For all his gifts, Elway may have been slightly overrated - I think he was in his 10th or 11th year when he finally had more touchdowns than interceptions. I think Marino or Manning could be dropped into any situation, any team, any era, and done very well.......
But using your own logic, didn't Marino get dropped into the best possible scenario of any of them...under Don Shula?
Maybe. But didn't Don Shula make his bones in the 1970s with a run and defense style? In other words, just because Shula was an all time great coach, does that mean he was a great offensive mastermind during Marino's career? I think Walsh or Coryell would have been better. Even Sam Wyche (criminally underrated) maybe.
Second year. But Elway's stats have never been all time great, even adjusted for era (more INTs, less TDs, lower completion % back then).
Shula saw what he had in Marino and let him loose immediately. I give him credit for that. Didn't put him in a pedestrian offense. Basically designed an attack offense around him.
Fair enough. I am a bit too young to remember Marino well. I know he beat my 1985 Chicago Bears in a rainstorm, though. *shakes fist
Best QB of all time is always tough to judge. Things that stats don't show, like o line, receivers, playbook can make a QB look much better/worse then he really is. Example, Steve Young is the best West Coast QB of all time. Tom Brady is the best drop back passer of all time. Montana, Elway, Marino and Favre were all the best QB for their system. Look at how much better Brees was in NO after coming from the Chargers, sure he was good in San Diego, but he became great in New Orleans, their style matched his. Same can be said for Aikman in Dallas.
However, all that aside, the best OVERALL QB in NFL history has to be Tom Brady and I hate both Michigan and the Pats. But, Brady has done it with great receiving corps and with bad recievers, he is as consistent of a player as any QB ever in the NFL. I think that Favre should be rated number 2 because he is the only argument you could make against Brady, but Brady has 4 rings and that trumps anything Favre has done.
To me Peyton is somewhere between 3-6 TS. I think he took advantage of a mostly crap division, AFC South, for most of his years. I am a Titans fan and when Peyton was on the Colts they were top 2 in the AFC every year, plus 2 match ups a year with the Texans and Jags help out a lot. My titans played the colts tough until here recently, but to me Peyton was just a product of a weak division, great receivers (Wayne, Harrison, Clark), and a top 3 RB (E James) for most of his career. Plus he played half of his games indoors in a dome, what every QB prefers.
However, all that aside, the best OVERALL QB in NFL history has to be Tom Brady and I hate both Michigan and the Pats. But, Brady has done it with great receiving corps and with bad recievers, he is as consistent of a player as any QB ever in the NFL. I think that Favre should be rated number 2 because he is the only argument you could make against Brady, but Brady has 4 rings and that trumps anything Favre has done.
To me Peyton is somewhere between 3-6 TS. I think he took advantage of a mostly crap division, AFC South, for most of his years. I am a Titans fan and when Peyton was on the Colts they were top 2 in the AFC every year, plus 2 match ups a year with the Texans and Jags help out a lot. My titans played the colts tough until here recently, but to me Peyton was just a product of a weak division, great receivers (Wayne, Harrison, Clark), and a top 3 RB (E James) for most of his career. Plus he played half of his games indoors in a dome, what every QB prefers.
Pound for pound the best QB to ever play the game was/is Doug Flutie.
That little midget could scramble and chuck the rock with the best of 'em. If he had only been 6 inches taller or been given a steady starting gig or stilts or if they had just allowed him to wear platform cleats then he would have been the indisputable...
GOAT
That little midget could scramble and chuck the rock with the best of 'em. If he had only been 6 inches taller or been given a steady starting gig or stilts or if they had just allowed him to wear platform cleats then he would have been the indisputable...
GOAT
AFC East (sans Pats) has sucked for at least a dozen years. They had two Jets teams (led by Mark Sanchez!) go to the AFC Championship game (as wild cards), and that's it. Miami had that year where they went to the playoffs due to the wildcat and a soft schedule (and Brady's injury). Buffalo hasn't made the playoffs in ~ 55 years. AFC South had each of the three other teams make the playoffs multiple times while Manning was there (I think the Texans fit that timeline).
Brady had Bellicheck his whole career, who turned Matt Cassel into a borderline Pro Bowl passer. The best run of kickers of all time (not even debatable, Sunday notwithstanding). And some terrific defenses. Brady has won 1 road playoff game in ten years. He's amazing at home, though. Brady might be the GOAT, but it's very close.
Manning had Clark? Yes, the TE who was maybe the third best TE (clearly behind Gonzalez and Gates, not arguable) and then got hurt all the time. Wayne and Harrison, sure. But Clark? He was about as good as Brady's second TE, the murderer Hernandez. No one approaching Gronk. I'd put Gronk/Moss up there with Wayne/Harrison, and I'd win. The playing indoors argument is valid, though.
Favre? Ugh. Maybe 2000s Favre has left too big of an imprint on my mind, but turnover machine (he's just having fun out there! DIAF color announcers) is not #2 all time. Maybe peak Favre. But not career Favre.
But like you said, too hard to evaluate things like o-line, receivers, playbook, etc...
And Rodgers is so freaking good he's made Mike McCarthy millions when he should probably not be employed in the NFL. At least not as a head coach.
Brady had Bellicheck his whole career, who turned Matt Cassel into a borderline Pro Bowl passer. The best run of kickers of all time (not even debatable, Sunday notwithstanding). And some terrific defenses. Brady has won 1 road playoff game in ten years. He's amazing at home, though. Brady might be the GOAT, but it's very close.
Manning had Clark? Yes, the TE who was maybe the third best TE (clearly behind Gonzalez and Gates, not arguable) and then got hurt all the time. Wayne and Harrison, sure. But Clark? He was about as good as Brady's second TE, the murderer Hernandez. No one approaching Gronk. I'd put Gronk/Moss up there with Wayne/Harrison, and I'd win. The playing indoors argument is valid, though.
Favre? Ugh. Maybe 2000s Favre has left too big of an imprint on my mind, but turnover machine (he's just having fun out there! DIAF color announcers) is not #2 all time. Maybe peak Favre. But not career Favre.
But like you said, too hard to evaluate things like o-line, receivers, playbook, etc...
And Rodgers is so freaking good he's made Mike McCarthy millions when he should probably not be employed in the NFL. At least not as a head coach.
Doug Flutie was ~ 181 pounds. Tom Brady is ~ 225 pounds. 225/181 = 124%. Tom Brady is ~ 8000% better than Doug Flutie was. Therefore, Tom Brady is better, pound for pound.
Packers fan so I have no dog in this one, but I would like to see Peyton win.
Not gonna happen though, Carolina is going to stomp 'em by 4 TD's. Hope I'm wrong and it's at least a good, close game.
Not gonna happen though, Carolina is going to stomp 'em by 4 TD's. Hope I'm wrong and it's at least a good, close game.
Big Rodgers fan, he could end up being the GOAT by the time he retires, heavily depending on another title.
A couple of posts made me realize - I've been saying "Manning and Marino are the best I've seen" for so long, it's kind of rote. The more I watch Aaron Rogers, the more I think I might need to amend......
Difference is that Newton's not a damn statue back there like Brady.
And, more importantly, at least IMO, Newton has a really good line in front of him, which Brady didn't have. Denver isn't going to pound Newton all day like they pounded Brady. I just can't see Denvers offense producing a lot of points. For Denver to win, I think Carolina is going to have to give up several turnovers.....
The Panthers offensive line is the most underrated unit in the entire league. Not only do they keep guys off of Newton, they lead the league in rushing with an old guy running the ball.
That being said, Denver got to Brady rushing three and four guys. Brady never gets hit because the Patriots run that "death by a thousand paper cuts" offense where the ball is out of there to Edelman or Amendola within four seconds. But those guys were smothered by Denver's coverage.
Denver has a puncher's chance if Manning doesn't try to do too much.
What did Magloire ever do?
Cousins...to be honest I might hate him if he had played at U of L or IU. But not for any showboating.
Walker...maybe. The shimmy shake thing was kind of obnoxious, but there are lots of guys who have been worse (Noah, Matt Walsh, and Marshall Henderson was the worst ever).
Murray and Briscoe....what have they done? I can't think of one thing.
Exactly. You could argue that Cam is better suit to play against Denver's defense than Brady. People forget Cam is the best running QB in the league that hasn't been linked to dog fights.
Magloire talked smack, didn't listen to smack talk, and would put someone on their *** real quick. He broke Wojo's back. Lol.
Murray seems to carries himself with the "I'm better than you" attitude. He has received several technicals where several posters on here were quick to throw out "He needs an attitude adjustment" card.
Briscoe is a well known trash talker. Although he has curtailed it quite a bit.
This could be a real blowout if Denver's defense isn't 100% on their game. If they even come out at 90%, not grabbing a few key turnovers, it's a wrap.
Still, it'll be extremely enjoyable. Don't care who wins. Would love to see Peyton ride off in the sunset, would also love to see Cam win and become the next great QB... Doesn't matter to me. No Pats, no Giants.. One of the few super bowls I can enjoy.
Still, it'll be extremely enjoyable. Don't care who wins. Would love to see Peyton ride off in the sunset, would also love to see Cam win and become the next great QB... Doesn't matter to me. No Pats, no Giants.. One of the few super bowls I can enjoy.
I was at a high school game the other night where the visiting team had a guard who is going to Eastern next year. White kid, reminded me a lot of Marshall Henderson. Talked trash, stuck out his tongue after making a pass or crossover dribbling his defender. Told someone on the other team to shut the hell up. Well, the home team's coach thought he was talking about him, so now he's yelling at the kid, then yelling at the kid's father (who happened to be the other coach). Now instead of a game you've got coaches threatening each other and players getting chippy. Refs did a good job of calling for the AD to come out of the stands and calm down his coach, and having three cops come out at halftime.
Point is that is all so unnecessary. Same with Cam Newton. Just play the game. You can be happy with what you have done on the field without making your opponent sit there and watch you pirouette for five minutes.
Watch the Giants-Panthers game from earlier this year. That's what the basketball game I saw the other night reminded me of.
Point is that is all so unnecessary. Same with Cam Newton. Just play the game. You can be happy with what you have done on the field without making your opponent sit there and watch you pirouette for five minutes.
Watch the Giants-Panthers game from earlier this year. That's what the basketball game I saw the other night reminded me of.
Carolina also has a good running game, the Denver D knew Brady was throwing every play which makes things a heck of a lot easier. The Patriots didn't even try to run. Panthers win by 14.
Link? Pretty sure refs have 1) delay of game, and 2) unsportsmanlike conduct penalties in their arsenal that can address five minutes of dancing. Cam has 2 unsportsmanlike penalties and 12 delay of game penalties (none relating to touchdowns or celebrations) in his career. Are you arguing for more? That refs aren't doing their job in making sure he conforms to your boring *** norms? That we should have more and/or stricter penalties for celebrating? Really? Really?
Self disclosure. I'm a lifelong Rams fan. When my team was scoring in bunches, they came up with a harmless TEAM celebration called the Bob n Weave. The next year, the competition committee, headed by Dennis Green, who's Vikings team had given up seven touchdowns to the Rams the year before, made all organized team celebrations punishable by 15-yard penalty.
I ask you...if teams can't celebrate with a little dance, why are individuals allowed to do so? It IS a team sport, right? Is it about sportsmanship, or jersey sales?
I like the Terrell Davis salute, or the AP hand the ball to the ref. Act like you have been there before. Chest bump on the sidelines. How many penalties or injuries have we seen from on field celebration? If the answer is even 1, that's too many.
I am a middle-aged white guy who roots for the Panthers. That said, I'm 100% for TD celebrations even at the collegiate level. And I'm for spiking the ball in High School.
I think the more likely scenario is that Manning does not finish the game, either by ineffectiveness or he gets hurt by the constant blitzing and pressure the Panthers will bring.
Totally agree. But I think the answer is to allow celebrations by individuals and/or teams. Outlawing team celebrations was just dumb.