Teachers are severely underpaid in the U.S.. or are they?

USMC Cat_rivals309254

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ITT we’re benchmarking teacher’s salaries against convoy leaders being paid to rebuild Afghanistan, a hellhole that I would rather not have funded by my tax dollars in the first place.

No were not. We're benchmarking teacher's salaries against other professionals...

It's all in the OP. Feel free to read it.

And personally, I'd rather not have my tax dollars fund public education because I don't have kids. But, you know what they say about being an adult...
 

gamecockcat

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My daughter has an education degree and teachers in and around the Denver area start between $33k-$39k and get few and far between raises. I,too, believe teachers, especially early in their career, work more 'off clock' hours than are being reported although many other professionals also work a ton of 'off clock' hours, too, so not sure if teachers are working more or not. I think teaching is an invaluable profession but it doesn't, in general, attract the best and brightest. Compensation is a huge issue but so is lack of incentive to be a great teacher as you won't earn any more than one who does a half-*** job.

The union has damaged education, imo. Ridiculous benefits in many states, retirement pensions that can be gamed to artificially increase a teacher's pension, almost no fear of ever losing your job (may get transferred to another school but outright fired is a rarity), raises/promotion based on seniority vs. quality, bloated administrative staffs (especially at university level), etc. The hackneyed notion that 'all we have to do to improve education is spend more money' is a complete joke. The US already spends more per student than almost every other competing nation and we get much less for our dollars. Surely, we've learned our lesson that throwing more money at a problem NEVER solves the problem (I know, I'm a dreamer). The whole public school system needs to be rebuilt but the union will never allow it. Our current system will continue to fall further behind the rest of the world as we spend more and more money on it.
 

joeyrupption

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No were not. We're benchmarking teacher's salaries against other professionals...

It's all in the OP. Feel free to read it.

And personally, I'd rather not have my tax dollars fund public education because I don't have kids. But, you know what they say about being an adult...
This entire thread is a big boo-hoo fest about who works the hardest and longest for the littlest pay. In every case, it a free country and you can get a new job or continue to be paid what you’re worth.

This is the benchmarking I was referring to:
Basically what you're saying is, the guy leading that convoy was making $9.40/hr, because it is a 24/7 job.
 
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warrior-cat

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Tell me again how many years you were a teacher?
Besides if we have to pay you while you are asleep maybe you’re overpaid.
Well, I guess I should have only worked during regular hours for the pay I was getting. I could have also refused to work while striking for better pay. I wonder what would have happened if all the military did that. Not real bright are you. Perhaps you need to go back to school and learn a little something before posting. "Go back to" might be the wrong phrase. "Start going to" might be better.
 

USMC Cat_rivals309254

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This entire thread is a big boo-hoo fest about who works the hardest and longest for the littlest pay. In every case, it a free country and you can get a new job.

It's not, really. It's just factually pointing out that teachers are some of the highest paid professionals when considering the amount of time they actually work. I guess you can take that information how you want but...

This is the benchmarking I was referring to:

Oh... well that was only a response to:

According to goarmy.com an O2 with 4 years service makes $83K. Lots of people making good cabbage.
 

mashburned

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Even if they are all have to teach the same material, that doesn't mean all teachers are going to be equally as adept at teaching the material. This would be like saying all basketball coaches are the same because they all teach basketball.

Obviously.

My point is teachers are at the ground level. They don't make the rules.
 

warrior-cat

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To clarify my position for those who were not in the other thread, I am for pay raises for teachers. Oklahoma teachers just got a big one, $6100.00 more a year and it was not enough. They are still striking. My daughter has been out of school for the entire week and maybe more. I say take this one in good faith then try to get more later. I believe they are hurting their chances of getting anything substantial for the future.
 
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Maybe we shouldn’t be in Iraq and Afghanistan for 16 years with no end in sight. Not cheap.

Teacher pay is fine. I think more should be done in terms of school infrastructure. My wife is a hs teacher. Her school provided laptop is 7 years old, has 2GB of RAM, and takes 20 minutes plus to restart. Heck, we offered to buy one but the only way to allow a non-Jcps laptop on the network is to pretty much surrender it to them.

She also had to fundraise from donors to get Kindle Fires for her classroom.

Pay is fine. Let’s see some investment in updating schools and technology.
Doesn't matter. A one-room schoolhouse with a good teacher and parents that give a crap about their kids behaving and doing well would suffice. The technology gets in the way as much as it helps IMO. In fact, it creates new dependencies that take money and attention away from the more important things that need to be done.
 
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LineSkiCat14

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@Deeeefense After hours applies to any salary jobs though. I'm on-call for a primary rotation every 6th week and a secondary rotation another 6th week. I have routine maintenance windows for patching and service. And we also have outages, late projects, things that come up last minute. I certainly work more than my 40hr/week. I'd say no less than 45 hours.

I get teachers have to take some work home, but we all do. And the teachers that I personally know appear to check-out HARD when they aren't on the school grounds from 7 to 3.

As far as school supplies go, many jobs need you to bring your own tools and supplies. That's one area that I'm fortunate in, I don't have to buy anything extra in IT. Extra computers, equipment, etc.. all provided within reason.. but there are plenty of jobs you need to BYO.
 

Xception

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Teachers have no one but their union to blame. Without being able to get rid of crappy teachers the job being done isn’t good enough for anyone to properly value the profession. Also it’s stupid that English teachers make as much as math teachers. This is why our country sucks at math. Anyone with a math degree can make easily find a job making $80,000 in KY ($100,000+ in many states). Forcing folks into making half their pay at the start of their career is a no go. Science teachers are probably only slightly less underpaid than math teachers. On the other hand getting a $50,000 a year job for an English major or a History major is a freaking fantastic gig, probably 40% more than what they are worth. The fact that all are paid the same is a union problem.
Right on, who needs English anyway
 

Ineverplayedthegame

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Well, I guess I should have only worked during regular hours for the pay I was getting. I could have also refused to work while striking for better pay. I wonder what would have happened if all the military did that. Not real bright are you. Perhaps you need to go back to school and learn a little something before posting. "Go back to" might be the wrong phrase. "Start going to" might be better.
You have no idea how long I went to school or what my profession is.
You were in the military, you provided a valuable service to our country and thank you . But so do teachers and for that matter so do garbage men.
If you did it for a career you were most likely well paid.
 

joeyrupption

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KY teachers are the 9th highest paid when adjusted for cost of living, people forget that.
 
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You need English/History because when you read, you make yourself less susceptible to bad ideas and repeating the mistakes of the past as a society or others in your own life as an individual.

It's as dumb of an argument as the prepubescent kid who laments learning the quadratic equation because he'd never use it.

You need all subjects, irrespective of the intellectual rigor required to master them in order to teach.
 
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warrior-cat

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You have no idea how long I went to school or what my profession is.
You were in the military, you provided a valuable service to our country and thank you . But so do teachers and for that matter so do garbage men.
If you did it for a career you were most likely well paid.
Not as well paid as you think back then. With all of that said, I was for the pay raise Oklahoma teachers got but, they are now over playing their hand as my wife just text saying they will not have school again on Monday. Over a week striking/walkout. There are a lot of workers in this area who are having a hard time getting time off to be with their kids or finding babysitters and having to pay for this.
 

Ineverplayedthegame

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Not as well paid as you think back then. With all of that said, I was for the pay raise Oklahoma teachers got but, they are now over playing their hand as my wife just text saying they will not have school again on Monday. Over a week striking/walkout. There are a lot of workers in this area who are having a hard time getting time off to be with their kids or finding babysitters and having to pay for this.
It would seem that a $6100 raise would be sufficient but I don’t know where they were starting at. Quite often when negotiations become too adversarial, reason goes out the window. I’ve heard even with the raise, that they will still be the lowest paid in the USA, but somebody will always be number 50.
 

Deeeefense

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It would seem that a $6100 raise would be sufficient but I don’t know where they were starting at. Quite often when negotiations become too adversarial, reason goes out the window. I’ve heard even with the raise, that they will still be the lowest paid in the USA, but somebody will always be number 50.

I think you have to apply a COLA formula to get a true apples-to-apples comparison on pay scales for each location. I don't know what the cost of living is in Tulsa or OK City but I imagine it's somewhat less than Philadelphia or San Fran.
 

warrior-cat

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It would seem that a $6100 raise would be sufficient but I don’t know where they were starting at. Quite often when negotiations become too adversarial, reason goes out the window. I’ve heard even with the raise, that they will still be the lowest paid in the USA, but somebody will always be number 50.
50th in education too but, something has to change first before other things can so, this should help. Also, pay was about $45,100.00 a year before raise.
 

bwls2

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Tell me how many years you were in the military. I know plenty of teachers around here that brag and joke about how much they love it because of the time off.

I don't brag and joke.

I'm completely, stone-faced serious about this fact:

I became a teacher because it affords me a TON of time to do whatever I want. I teach my *** off and enjoy the hell out of my breaks. Lots of music. I guess I could do with a few more dollars, but I'm not fighting that battle. If teachers in Nashville walked out of their schools/didn't show up/whatever...I might be the only guy in the building who's still there to work. F*ck a protest about salary. I'm good. Gotta be good at teaching to keep the job though, so maybe I'm damn good.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!!
 

fuzz77

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This is me copying and pasting, practically word for word. Stats look solid, but thought I would share just to drum up discussion...

While teachers are often honorable people whom we don't seek to demean, statistics show they're paid quite adequately relative to comparable professionals, once accounting for time-worked, education level, and benefits.

Per the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median annual wages (as of 2016) were as follows:

• $55,490 = Kindergarten & Elementary School Teachers [a]

• $56,720 = Middle School Teachers

$58,030 = High School Teachers [c]

That averages to an annual salary of $56,747. For context, in May 2016, the median annual wage for ALL workers was only $37,040. [c]
While that's already 53% higher, its not really a fair representation, since we also need to look at time-worked, educational requirements, and benefits.

Per a BLS study titled "Teachers' Work Patterns," full time teachers worked 24 fewer minutes per weekday and 42 fewer minutes per Saturday than other full-time professionals. On Sundays, teachers and other professionals worked, on average, about the same amount of time. [d] Note that in this study, “other professionals” refers to health care professionals, business and financial operations professionals, architects and engineers, community and social services professionals, managers, and others. [d] (Essentially, professions which have similarly difficult educational requirements.) Therefore, this estimate suggests teachers are working 2.5 hours LESS in any given work-week than comparable professionals.

If concerned we may be inadvertently under-representing hours worked by teachers, we can address that via the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, where teachers self-report. In other words, they tell us what they believe they're doing, and we simply take that at face value. Thus, it's far less possible for us to accidentally underrepresent their hours worked. Per the CPS, "Teachers themselves report a mean work week of 43.7 hours, versus 44.8 hours for non-teachers with a college degree." [e] THIS estimate would put them at roughly 1 hour of work LESS than comparable workers.

Looking at full time teachers, the BLS also broke it down by age group:

• Teachers aged 20-29: 37 hours per week [f]
• Teachers aged 30-39: 36 hours per week [f]
• Teachers aged 40-49: 40 hours per week [f]
• Teachers aged 50-59: 42 hours per week [f]

Taken together, just for a rough estimate, these average out to about 38.75 hours.

Thus, in reviewing all of the above estimates, we can safely approximate that - when not presently on vacation - teachers work roughly 1 - 2.5 FEWER hours a week than comparable workers.

Now what about the number of weeks worked in a year? Many people will anecdotally claim that teachers only work 9 months out of the year, and the BBC even reports that teachers have 13 weeks off, but districts in the U.S. differ. Per the BLS, "Many work the traditional 10-month school year and have a 2-month break during the summer. They also have a short midwinter break." [g] That would equals a minimum of nine weeks off a year, leaving a maximum of 43 work weeks to divide their annual salaries into. THIS seems to be the most "conservative" estimate regarding vacation weeks, so to give teachers the benefit of the doubt, we'll use this one in our estimates. Using the average annual salary we stated above of $56,747, that would be about $1319.70 earned in a work-week. If we then take the highest estimate of hours worked, self reported by teachers to be 43.7 hours a week, that would come out to an hourly wage of $30.20 before benefits. Using the lower end of the spectrum (38.75 hours, which we explained above), their hourly wage would instead be $34.06. Therefore, we can safely approximate that teachers are paid an average rate of $30.20 - $34.06 per hour, which most people wouldn't consider a "bad" wage. (Especially compared to the median wage for ALL workers, divided by 52 weeks and a 40 hour workweek, which comes to $17.98 per hour.)

The next thing to consider are job-related benefits. Once accounting for lavish benefits, some researchers conclude that public teachers are arguably OVERPAID. (And at the very least adequately paid) [h] They argue that generous benefits for public-school teachers often go unrecognized, allowing public perception to discount the true nature of their compensation. For instance:

• Pension programs for public-school teachers are significantly more generous than the typical private-sector retirement plan, but this generosity is hidden by public-sector accounting practices that allow lower employer contributions than a private-sector plan promising the same retirement benefits. [h]

• Most teachers accrue generous retiree health benefits as they work, but retiree health care is excluded from Bureau of Labor Statistics benefits data and thus frequently overlooked. While rarely offered in the private sector, retiree health coverage for teachers is worth roughly an additional 10 percent of wages. [h]

• Job security for teachers is considerably greater than in comparable professions, worth about an extra 1 percent of wages. [h] Per research from Fordham Institute, it's nearly impossible to fire teachers. "Across the country, most districts and states continue to confer lifetime tenure on teachers, weak teachers still take years to dismiss if they achieve tenured status, and any attempt to dismiss an ineffective veteran teacher remains vulnerable to costly challenges at every stage in the process - from evaluation, to remediation, to the dismissal decision, and beyond." This job-security is a perk largely unique to educators, and the benefit of it should therefore be considered within any debate regarding compensation.

Lastly, 2008 Data from the Digest of Education Statistics show that base salaries for Elementary and Secondary PUBLIC School Teachers are 36.91% higher than Elementary and Secondary PRIVATE School Teachers. [j] This is because public teachers’ unions provide an unnatural advantage via political lobbying and campaign fundraising, influencing the very people they later bargain with during compensation negotiations. This is a power no private unions possess, since political elections don't determine who heads privately run schools. These perverse incentives arguably allow public teachers' unions to negotiate above-market wages, and thus largely explain the discrepancy between public and private teachers. It also strongly undermines the contention that public teachers are supposedly "underpaid" when their private counterparts - who are subjected to market pressures - earn far less.

CONCLUSION:
Given that K-12 teachers earn approximately $58,000 a year while working fewer than 10 months, with an approximate wage of $30.20 - $34.06 per hour before benefits, given that they appear to work slightly fewer hours a week than comparable professions, given that public teachers (in particular) earn far better benefits than the average citizen, and given that public teachers earn more than their private counterparts, it's highly misleading to claim that teachers in the U.S. are "underpaid."
--------------------------
NOTE: WAC is already aware that teachers work before students arrive and after students leave. We're already aware that they work outside the classroom and often times work at home. All of this is accounted for, especially in the data set where teachers self-reported the amount of hours they worked each week. Our review did NOT omit this information.

Did they adjust for the $100s if not $1000+ spent out of the teacher's own pocket for supplies for both the classroom and for kids in the classroom who's parents are either unable or unwilling to supply their children? Not to speak of the CEUs required at their own expense.

It is evident from the wording that they are trying to make a case that teachers are paid well...if you try hard enough you can usually make any case work out the way you want. I don't think bringing in median $$ for all workers isn't a valid comparison. 21% of American adults have attained a bachelor’s degree, while 9.3 percent of adults over 25 have a master’s degree. Teachers are now required to obtain a master's degree within a few years of entering the profession. Most younger teachers like my daughter went ahead and obtained her masters before she took her first job. What is the median income for people with masters degrees?
 

warrior-cat

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I don't brag and joke.

I'm completely, stone-faced serious about this fact:

I became a teacher because it affords me a TON of time to do whatever I want. I teach my *** off and enjoy the hell out of my breaks. Lots of music. I guess I could do with a few more dollars, but I'm not fighting that battle. If teachers in Nashville walked out of their schools/didn't show up/whatever...I might be the only guy in the building who's still there to work. F*ck a protest about salary. I'm good. Gotta be good at teaching to keep the job though, so maybe I'm damn good.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!!
As I said, I am for the raise they got because they had not had one in 10 years but now that they got $6,100.00 a year more they are bitching about it not being enough. I don't know any other profession around here that got that much over a 10 year span.
 

bwls2

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As I said, I am for the raise they got because they had not had one in 10 years but now that they got $6,100.00 a year more they are bitching about it not being enough. I don't know any other profession around here that got that much over a 10 year span.

That is nuts.

My wife and I would be partying HARD tonight if I found out I just got a $6,000 bump. As a teacher!

I won't be participating in any walkouts/"sick days"...but I damn sure wouldn't turn down a significant raise of any kind. It's an interesting profession.
 

BlueBallz_rivals30790

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My wife is a teacher, the pay is decent, not great. If they wanted to pick up a summer job, that could add to it, not that my wife will EVER do that like she says she will. It’s a good supplemental income. Two huge downsides though, their retirement is crap. Whoever said it’s better than the private sector, it’s not close. The other thing is, health benefits are expensive and don’t cover much, although it’s far better than Obamacare, so they got that going for them, which is nice. Teachers get a lot of time off perks, like summer, extended holidays, etc that they never seem to bring up. My wife isn’t one to ***** about the pay because of that and generally happy doing what she does. It helps she is married to a bank making sugar daddy like yours truly.
 

USMC Cat_rivals309254

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Did they adjust for the $100s if not $1000+ spent out of the teacher's own pocket for supplies for both the classroom and for kids in the classroom who's parents are either unable or unwilling to supply their children? Not to speak of the CEUs required at their own expense.

It is evident from the wording that they are trying to make a case that teachers are paid well...if you try hard enough you can usually make any case work out the way you want. I don't think bringing in median $$ for all workers isn't a valid comparison. 21% of American adults have attained a bachelor’s degree, while 9.3 percent of adults over 25 have a master’s degree. Teachers are now required to obtain a master's degree within a few years of entering the profession. Most younger teachers like my daughter went ahead and obtained her masters before she took her first job. What is the median income for people with masters degrees?

It's all comparable. Read the OP.

It compares their jobs to other jobs of similar educational requirements.

Straight from the BLS:

Per a BLS study titled "Teachers' Work Patterns," full time teachers worked 24 fewer minutes per weekday and 42 fewer minutes per Saturday than other full-time professionals. On Sundays, teachers and other professionals worked, on average, about the same amount of time. [d] Note that in this study, “other professionals” refers to health care professionals, business and financial operations professionals, architects and engineers, community and social services professionals, managers, and others. [d] (Essentially, professions which have similarly difficult educational requirements.) Therefore, this estimate suggests teachers are working 2.5 hours LESS in any given work-week than comparable professionals.
 
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USMC Cat_rivals309254

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I don't brag and joke.

I'm completely, stone-faced serious about this fact:

I became a teacher because it affords me a TON of time to do whatever I want. I teach my *** off and enjoy the hell out of my breaks. Lots of music. I guess I could do with a few more dollars, but I'm not fighting that battle. If teachers in Nashville walked out of their schools/didn't show up/whatever...I might be the only guy in the building who's still there to work. F*ck a protest about salary. I'm good. Gotta be good at teaching to keep the job though, so maybe I'm damn good.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!!

Love your job. Honestly that's priority #1 for me, although I also don't have kids and am fairly ahead of my finances.

It may be different otherwise, but you have to love your job or you're going to be miserable in life.
 

throatpoker

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Of course theyre not underpaid. My mom complained about her pay as long as i can remember. 30 years. From the time i was old enough to know anything, 12 years old?, I told her this wasnt true because she worked half a year compared to my dad. Now she's retired and receives like 85% of her final salary and never had to worry about managing a 401k. Ridiculous bunch of cry babies.
 
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TBCat

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Odd trend in this country to **** on teachers for their pay when education is such an import part of life. It's like some people would like to see our education system completely fail just so the rich and powerful can get richer and more powerful by exploiting the uneducated.
Nobody is crapping on teachers. Most teachers make more money than the average tax payer funding their salary. I'm not against teachers but we have to accept the fact that in the end government doesn't actually dictate salaries, markets do. In other words there is no such thing as someone who is underpaid or over paid. You are paid exactly what the market will support. You can try to pass budgets to pay salaries above market value if you want but the market will eventually win out. Everything eventually levels out at it's actual value.
 
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Get Buckets

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Nobody is crapping on teachers. Most teachers make more money than the average tax payer funding their salary. I'm not against teachers but we have to accept the fact that in the end government doesn't actually dictate salaries, markets do. In other words there is no such thing as someone who is underpaid or over paid. You are paid exactly what the market will support. You can try to pass budgets to pay salaries above market value if you want but the market will eventually win out. Everything eventually levels out at it's actual value.

I’m confused. Are you saying government workers can or can’t be overpaid?
 

BBUK_anon

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Odd trend in this country to **** on teachers for their pay when education is such an import part of life. It's like some people would like to see our education system completely fail just so the rich and powerful can get richer and more powerful by exploiting the uneducated.

The problem is not educators, it is unscrupulous educators and their personal or worse agenda's. Teach basic life skills and marketable skills and they are doing there jobs. If educators spend their time Indoctrinating, they are a scourge to society.
 
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funKYcat75

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The problem is not educators, it is unscrupulous educators and their personal or worse agenda's. Teach basic life skills and marketable skills and they are doing there jobs. If educators spend their time Indoctrinating, they are a scourge to society.
Who in TF are you all talking about? Indoctrinating ... I’m not sure what TV shows or news you’re watching, but I’d love to hear some REAL LIFE examples from people you personally know who have been spreading all of this stuff.
 
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BBUK_anon

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Who in TF are you all talking about? Indoctrinating ... I’m not sure what TV shows or news you’re watching, but I’d love to hear some REAL LIFE examples from people you personally know who have been spreading all of this stuff.

Do I have to personally know them and of course provide their names and addresses for you. (All I can do is provide it in writing with a picture of a copy of the letter. (I DO call that indoctrination.) I do know a few with similar items such as this. I'd throw in a couple TF's if it makes you feel more at home... A weirdo on the internet is about as far as I will go in acknowledging you further. Oh, and Be Good (That's about like stating Bless your heart)

Here is just one from recently....tell me your learned explanation: (Please) Oh, Also go ahead and cuss a little more. You bad...(If you talked like you type, I'd walk away from you. I wouldn't waste my time.)

Oh, and go ahead and ask for more proof but so you understand, I charge for life lessons. Go back to whatever it is that you do. You sure aren't a socialite..

This is a heckuv a needed educational experience for an 8 year old. About as needed a sexed for a 10 or 12 year old who should be playing with barbie dolls.

Wise-up...

https://breaking.americanewscentral...&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=anhcampaign
 
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funKYcat75

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Here is just one from recently....tell me your learned explanation: (Please) Oh, Also go ahead and cuss a little more. You bad...(If you talked like you type, I'd walk away from you. I wouldn't waste my time.)

Oh, and go ahead and ask for more proof but so you understand, I charge for life lessons. Go back to whatever it is that you do. You sure aren't a socialite..

This is a heckuv a needed educational experience for an 8 year old. About as needed a sexed for a 10 or 12 year old who should be playing with barbie dolls.

Wise-up...

https://breaking.americanewscentral...&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=anhcampaign
If you could read, you would have seen that I asked for real life example from people you actually know. You have absolutely none, I’m sure. For every example that is plastered on some website, there are literally hundreds of thousand of classrooms every day where that does not happen. You act as if public education is some giant brainwashing factory and that’s just not the case. Stop projecting isolated incidents onto an entire industry.
 

funKYcat75

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About as needed a sexed for a 10 or 12 year old
I assume you mean “sex-ed” here. I was taught sex ed at that age back in the 80s. My son was not taught it until health class in high school, in a proper context. Some might say that was progress and others would not.
 

BBUK_anon

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If you could read, you would have seen that I asked for real life example from people you actually know. You have absolutely none, I’m sure. For every example that is plastered on some website, there are literally hundreds of thousand of classrooms every day where that does not happen. You act as if public education is some giant brainwashing factory and that’s just not the case. Stop projecting isolated incidents onto an entire industry.

HA HA HA, Have you gone to college? I doubt it. Do you have any college debt? Or, was it free? Liberal Arts of you did attend at all? rotflcgu..

Oh, I apologize, there is google, you can become an expert googling. You can learn anything.

Oh, sorry I forged a copy of a school letter sent by the board of education. Enjoy yourself, I just hope you don't have some that are dependent upon you.

Be Good, again...

I apologize but I am busting a gut about now. I couldn't give you names, addresses, and phone numbers. I'm a faker...
 

funKYcat75

Heisman
Apr 10, 2008
32,272
40,658
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HA HA HA, Have you gone to college? I doubt it. Do you have any college debt? Or, was it free? Liberal Arts of you did attend at all? rotflcgu..

Oh, I apologize, there is google, you can become an expert googling. You can learn anything.

Oh, sorry I forged a copy of a school letter sent by the board of education. Enjoy yourself, I just hope you don't have some that are dependent upon you.

Be Good, again...

I apologize but I am busting a gut about now. I couldn't give you names, addresses, and phone numbers. I'm a faker...
You’re talking about public schools, which by every connotation in this thread means K-12, yet here you are changing the subject to college.