The consensus on sports talk radio is that Mullen has hit the ceiling at State.
- Thread starter codeDawg
- Start date
We could have easily won 9 games this year, and we only won 8, so it's quite obviously false.
Mullen's ceiling might be what Spurrier is doing at South Carolina the last few years: consistently winning 9-10, but not beating any great teams except occasionally. But we aren't there yet.
Mullen's ceiling might be what Spurrier is doing at South Carolina the last few years: consistently winning 9-10, but not beating any great teams except occasionally. But we aren't there yet.
Specifically what sports radio talking head came to this consensus? Not calling anyone out, just curious.
I have a theory as to what happened to our team this year. And it's directly related to Mullen. Here's my theory: The team took on the personality of its coach. Coach had no fire this year; thus the team played flat. Coach is carrying a heavy burden because of the uncertainty of the "little hiccup" we had to come to light early this fall. This situation is bigger than we think. In fact, it is big enough to affect our program and Coach's career (at least in the short-term). I hope my theory is all BS.
Yes- our ceiling is without a doubt an 8-9 win season consistently with the capability of a 10 or more special season once, maybe twice a decade...that's 100% correct. We cannot be what Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Florida, Georgia can and are currently
Our ceiling is also the same as Mississippi's, Kentucky's, Missouri's, and Vanderbilt's
Questions remain as to whether Tennessee can regain what they were in the 1990's, SC can maintain their level without Spurrier, and can UPig achieve any consistency to be a 10 win SEC team
Your theory is BS. Mullen has just found out exactly what he'll have to do to win and win big. In other words, it's not quite as easy as he thought when he was wide eyed and took the job. He can get it done though, he just has to close on the big recruits, like Cam and C.J.
Plus, I think he thought he'd get a big gig after 2010 and it sort of frustrated him. BIG difference in Mullen from 2010 to 2011, and ultimately where we are today.
Plus, I think he thought he'd get a big gig after 2010 and it sort of frustrated him. BIG difference in Mullen from 2010 to 2011, and ultimately where we are today.
Not true. Last year's recruiting class was his first top 25 at MSU. This year's will be his second. It's more conceivable that Freeze has reached the ceiling at Ole Miss. They're the ones with 3 Top 25 recruiting classes(2009 - 2011) over the last 4 years. Freeze is following the same path as Nutt win with another coach's players. In two years, when they're going through another transition, they will faulter and the foward rebels will start another campaign.
MSU 3 coaches since 1991 (a new coach every 7 years)
OM 7 coaches since 1991 (a new coach every 3 years)
MSU 3 coaches since 1991 (a new coach every 7 years)
OM 7 coaches since 1991 (a new coach every 3 years)
Those recruiting classes were top 25, but much of that is gone, as has ben pointed out on many occasions. Don't be polyannish with comments that are blatantly off target.
You may wish freeze has hit the ceiling but your false comments don't/won't make it so. Mullen has to get his fire back, otherwise the last eggbowl will be repeated often.
You may wish freeze has hit the ceiling but your false comments don't/won't make it so. Mullen has to get his fire back, otherwise the last eggbowl will be repeated often.
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if Mullen has hit his ceiling then he must go. Stans was winning 18 or so games a year, doing well in the SEC tourney, made NCAA tourney appearances, won the West a few times, even won the SEC regular season championship yet he was fired. How is Mullen different? Before you jump me, I think Stans should have been gone three years ago, but that is not the point. Making the Sweet 16 is a hell of a lot harder than playing in a football bowl game these days. Had Stans played the weak schedule our football team has played he would have won many more than he did. So, looking at it that way, Mullen must go. I love the guy but we gotta be consistent in our hiring and firing practices. It is a real ***** being a coach at the collegiate level...esp the SEC.
Exactly and is not until Spurrier starting cracking the top 25 in recruiting consistantly that SC became competative with top SEC teams.
What I listened to today was mostly The national and local guys interviewed on Chis Vernon and Gary Parrish. There was a surprising amount of, "Dan Mullen has done everything he can do in Starkville" and "he is probably realizing how hard it will be to take it to the next level."
I don't disagree with it. We are always going to have Bama and LSU, two more years of Johnny Football, UPig will be more competitive, Auburn will have highs and lows, and UM will have some success before they get the dumpster lit again.
Our path is to make our own luck like 98. Prepare to be a 8-9 win team and catch the SEC in flux one year.
I don't know if Dan is going to hang out for that. I wouldn't, but that's my personality. It depends on what he finds personally important I guess.
I don't disagree with it. We are always going to have Bama and LSU, two more years of Johnny Football, UPig will be more competitive, Auburn will have highs and lows, and UM will have some success before they get the dumpster lit again.
Our path is to make our own luck like 98. Prepare to be a 8-9 win team and catch the SEC in flux one year.
I don't know if Dan is going to hang out for that. I wouldn't, but that's my personality. It depends on what he finds personally important I guess.
Sports talk radio needs to make up its mind...
I thought the consensus on sports talk radio is at a place like Miss. State, it takes nearly a decade to build up the program.Funny how they've suddenly shorten the time-line to 4 years.What gets me is if Mullen has truly hit a ceiling of 8-9 wins a years @ Miss. State, then Mullen is a miracle worker who will go down as the greatest football HC in MSU history.Somebody needs to inform sports talk radio about MSU's ****** football history. Sounds like to me sports talk radio is not very educated on certain aspects of sports.
I thought the consensus on sports talk radio is at a place like Miss. State, it takes nearly a decade to build up the program.Funny how they've suddenly shorten the time-line to 4 years.What gets me is if Mullen has truly hit a ceiling of 8-9 wins a years @ Miss. State, then Mullen is a miracle worker who will go down as the greatest football HC in MSU history.Somebody needs to inform sports talk radio about MSU's ****** football history. Sounds like to me sports talk radio is not very educated on certain aspects of sports.
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I didn't say "Mullen's ceiling"...I said "our ceiling"
Out football ceiling is different from our basketball ceiling. Football takes multiple seasons of highly rated recruiting classes to just to have a chance at the top 10. SEC Football is the pinnacle of college football.
What Stansbury was doing is about equal to being a top 5 or 6 program in Big Ten football. He was Iowa basically- with lots of drama and discipline problems. Mullen's comparision is being Seton Hall in Big East basketball. You can elevate Seton Hall in the conference, and they are capable of a special season every 10 years- but they won't ever be UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, Louisville, etc...
Out football ceiling is different from our basketball ceiling. Football takes multiple seasons of highly rated recruiting classes to just to have a chance at the top 10. SEC Football is the pinnacle of college football.
What Stansbury was doing is about equal to being a top 5 or 6 program in Big Ten football. He was Iowa basically- with lots of drama and discipline problems. Mullen's comparision is being Seton Hall in Big East basketball. You can elevate Seton Hall in the conference, and they are capable of a special season every 10 years- but they won't ever be UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, Louisville, etc...
That's for sure. If we could consistently win 8 or 9, and occasionally 10, I'd be happy. And it would be a darn sight better than Croom's apparent norm of 3 wins per year.
The truth is 49 players remain from those 3 top 25 recruiting classes. Most of the players that are gone are from the 2009 recruiting class where Nutt oversigned 37 players. Considering Juco's this is still fairly good retention. Much better than you OM spin doctors would ever admit too. If you would like a list, I could provide that as well.
How could you have easily won 9 games?
Considering the fact that Auburn and Arkansas were abnormally bad, and you got your *** kicked by every team you lost to and barely beat Troy, wasn't MSU a lot closer to being "easily" at a 6-6 or 7-5, than they were at being 9-3?
Considering the fact that Auburn and Arkansas were abnormally bad, and you got your *** kicked by every team you lost to and barely beat Troy, wasn't MSU a lot closer to being "easily" at a 6-6 or 7-5, than they were at being 9-3?
Kinda looks like he`s hit the ceiling everywhere. I don`t think he`s such a hot commodity anymore.
Bury would still be here if he hadn't lost control of his teams. People were sick of transfers, fighting among themselves(on national TV) and just a general lack of discipline. Although many got tired of missing out on the big dance the last few years, the rest of the crap sealed his fate.
only game that was close was troy, the trap game. but yes i agree it would have been easier for us to end up 7-5 than 9-3. **** that **** about auburn and arkansas, we kicked their *** i don't care how good they were. terrible line of thinking, coming from either of the MS schools, pal. they sure don't afford us that luxury when they are 8-4.
i'm guessing you don't really think ole miss was 'truly' a 4-8 team who just got lucky huh
i'm guessing you don't really think ole miss was 'truly' a 4-8 team who just got lucky huh
why do morons like you give those idiots respect......arky is an 7-8 win average sec team. petrino syndrome, you have it. overinflated expectations due to bobby p. he'd have the same results at MSU.
uhhh, no. look no further than the last recruiting class and the current one.
people say he **** the bed in 2010 and 2011 in recruiting, and we just went 8-4. just think what he'll accomplish with his type players in here with some real star talent. he really just needs to find that stud QB or RB that he can ride.
people say he **** the bed in 2010 and 2011 in recruiting, and we just went 8-4. just think what he'll accomplish with his type players in here with some real star talent. he really just needs to find that stud QB or RB that he can ride.
Out of the players from those three classes that start, only 6 were four stars or better and they are all sophomores except Mackey. Obviously there was some attrition. The only 4 star that isn't starting that we still have from those three class RS this year and will be a junior next year. Freeze will sign more than that in one class. Yeah he's peaked at 6-6
Four years as a head coach....
*** is still green behind the ears in terms of where he will be in five years, it's not a sprint unless you are LSU or UAT in the west, he's got n uphill climb. He expereimented with more of a passing attack this year, was he uncommited as some say and failed or did we just not have all the players to execute what they wanted? I don't know the answer, but I'll ethe' trying to figure it out right now! It's going to take some time, he has never said when we would get to the top of the mountain or that he knew exactly the right course, but damn, he's trying.
*** is still green behind the ears in terms of where he will be in five years, it's not a sprint unless you are LSU or UAT in the west, he's got n uphill climb. He expereimented with more of a passing attack this year, was he uncommited as some say and failed or did we just not have all the players to execute what they wanted? I don't know the answer, but I'll ethe' trying to figure it out right now! It's going to take some time, he has never said when we would get to the top of the mountain or that he knew exactly the right course, but damn, he's trying.
You did....you went full retard with this dumbass comparison somehow gets made at least once-twice a week on here...
We were ranked in the top 16 in the final standings in year 2 in football = Sweet 16. /argument.
Stans NEVER played a schedule even CLOSE to what our football team goes through every year.
Sagarin Football SOS rankings:
2012: 50
2011: 28
2010: 30
2009: 1
avg: 27.25
Sagarin Basketball SOS rankings:
2011/12: 89
2010/11: 105
2009/10: 72
2008/09: 68
2007/08: 61
avg: 79
Not until we have a true dual threat QB with a decent D
Mullen is an option man that thrives on the QB 17ing with the secondary by being a running and passing threat. We've had a runner or passer thus far. Not both. Once that happens, then we can talk ceiling.
Mullen is an option man that thrives on the QB 17ing with the secondary by being a running and passing threat. We've had a runner or passer thus far. Not both. Once that happens, then we can talk ceiling.
OM Spin doctor? WT17 are you referring to?
I checked the classes for you.
Players by class that I recognize which means they start and still on the team and the ones that are gone. Keep in mind it has been said on this board ad nausea that the rankings are only as good as the remainder of the class.
2009 (originally ranked 18th) - campbell (P), Kight (LB), Logan (WR), Marry (LB), Mccray (OL), Neat (WR), Ritter (K), Sawyer (DB), Swindall (OL), Wigham (DE)
2009 departed (stars) - Tig (4), Cotton (4), Drummon (4), Grandy (3), Grant (3), Hornsby (4), JUnaid (2), Kellam (3), Mason (3), Massie (5), Patterson (4), Scott (4), Simon (3), Thomas (3)
2010 (originally ranked 18th) - Bennett (DT), Coleman (DB), Mackey (ATH), Mathews (S), Sanders (WR), Scott (RB), Williams (LB)
2010 departed - Dorsey (4), Eastland (3), Giles (3), Grimes (3), Hackney (3), Jackson (3), Jackson (4), Mitchell (3)
2011 - (originally ranked 20th) - Bell (OL), Brown (S), Bryant (LB), Garbutt (LB), Golson (DB), Grant (DT), Johnson (DE), Lewis (LB), Moncrief (WR), Morris (OL), Mosley (TE), Nkemdiche (LB), Pena (DT), Prewitt (S)
2011 departed - Brassell (4), Hall (3), Hamilton (3), Singleton (4), Stoudt (3)
I also counted 10 starters/players from 2012 signing class. So I got about 41 (which is roughly 2 deep) between 2009 & 2012. The remainder must be from 2008 and they are gone now.
I didn't know about some of the names which i omitted here. They are either gone, 3rd/4th team or squad players. You can count those but when 10 freshmen/new players are playing over them they won't be a factor in coming years. So there might be 49 players there but how much will they matter beyond practice.
Anyway, what was your point? I said that the classes were nowhere close to top 25 classes with the attrition and I am not sure what you meant. By your admission there were 49 players on the roster. 49 out of 92 commitments on those lists. I'd say that was pretty bad.
I checked the classes for you.
Players by class that I recognize which means they start and still on the team and the ones that are gone. Keep in mind it has been said on this board ad nausea that the rankings are only as good as the remainder of the class.
2009 (originally ranked 18th) - campbell (P), Kight (LB), Logan (WR), Marry (LB), Mccray (OL), Neat (WR), Ritter (K), Sawyer (DB), Swindall (OL), Wigham (DE)
2009 departed (stars) - Tig (4), Cotton (4), Drummon (4), Grandy (3), Grant (3), Hornsby (4), JUnaid (2), Kellam (3), Mason (3), Massie (5), Patterson (4), Scott (4), Simon (3), Thomas (3)
2010 (originally ranked 18th) - Bennett (DT), Coleman (DB), Mackey (ATH), Mathews (S), Sanders (WR), Scott (RB), Williams (LB)
2010 departed - Dorsey (4), Eastland (3), Giles (3), Grimes (3), Hackney (3), Jackson (3), Jackson (4), Mitchell (3)
2011 - (originally ranked 20th) - Bell (OL), Brown (S), Bryant (LB), Garbutt (LB), Golson (DB), Grant (DT), Johnson (DE), Lewis (LB), Moncrief (WR), Morris (OL), Mosley (TE), Nkemdiche (LB), Pena (DT), Prewitt (S)
2011 departed - Brassell (4), Hall (3), Hamilton (3), Singleton (4), Stoudt (3)
I also counted 10 starters/players from 2012 signing class. So I got about 41 (which is roughly 2 deep) between 2009 & 2012. The remainder must be from 2008 and they are gone now.
I didn't know about some of the names which i omitted here. They are either gone, 3rd/4th team or squad players. You can count those but when 10 freshmen/new players are playing over them they won't be a factor in coming years. So there might be 49 players there but how much will they matter beyond practice.
Anyway, what was your point? I said that the classes were nowhere close to top 25 classes with the attrition and I am not sure what you meant. By your admission there were 49 players on the roster. 49 out of 92 commitments on those lists. I'd say that was pretty bad.
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Noname
I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say. This is what I interpreted from your post... Yes OM lost a lot from those 3 top 25 classes but not as much as OM likes to pretend it does. Not sure that was your point or not, but assuming it was, I explained that we have one upper classman out of those three classes that was rated as a four star or higher. Meaning if we only lost 4-5 kids per class, then those 4-5 were the stars of the class and what was left was not highly ranks so those rankings do not reflect the talent we actually have on campus.
Ultimately my post was in response to the "maybe Freeze has peaked" since he played with 3 top 25 classes. And my response was that we have 6 starters that were 4 star or better (actually 7) and 5 of them (actually 6) are sophomores. Meaning the most talented kids that gave us those high rankings that are still on the team have only lost to state once and that was as freshmen without a coach.
Once again, I'm not sure what your point was exactly, but mine was Freeze's talent is all young so assuming he won't improve the next couple years is asinine
I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say. This is what I interpreted from your post... Yes OM lost a lot from those 3 top 25 classes but not as much as OM likes to pretend it does. Not sure that was your point or not, but assuming it was, I explained that we have one upper classman out of those three classes that was rated as a four star or higher. Meaning if we only lost 4-5 kids per class, then those 4-5 were the stars of the class and what was left was not highly ranks so those rankings do not reflect the talent we actually have on campus.
Ultimately my post was in response to the "maybe Freeze has peaked" since he played with 3 top 25 classes. And my response was that we have 6 starters that were 4 star or better (actually 7) and 5 of them (actually 6) are sophomores. Meaning the most talented kids that gave us those high rankings that are still on the team have only lost to state once and that was as freshmen without a coach.
Once again, I'm not sure what your point was exactly, but mine was Freeze's talent is all young so assuming he won't improve the next couple years is asinine
All this is correct.
I think it's ridiculous to say either team has "peaked." What we do know is that Mullen is at a plateau and is having a very tough time climbing higher. It's going to take drastic changes to get it done IMO, and THIS is where we will find out what kind of head coach he is. He is in the same situation as Houston Nutt after 2009 Egg Bowl exposed Tyrone Nix. Will he sever the ties necessary or will he be "loyal" in a way that blows up in our face? Ole Miss would have been a 7 or 8 win team in 2010 had Nutt fixed the defense, because that was a tremendous offensive football team. I'm not saying I'm fully advocating firing Chris Wilson, but changes have GOT to be made...because we don't have nearly enough talent to be the type of Alabama reactionary defense that Wilson is trying to make us. We've got to gamble some and attack much like Ole Miss did this year. As much as I think he's fool's gold, "Joe Lee" Womack would have wrecked **** with his style of attacking and MSU's db's....
Freeze is still climbing the mountain. It's much easier to go from terrible to decent than it is to go from decent to good or good to great, and State has found that out the hard way...
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2009
DE 78 Alex Williams
SLB 13 Willie Ferrell
QB 22 Raymond Cotton
SLB 32 Tim Simon
S JC Jamar Hornsby
WR 182 Jesse Grandy
OT PG Bobby Massie
RB PG Darius Barksdale
WR 5 Pat Patterson
MLB 28 Mike Marry*
C 17 Corey Gaines*
TE 13 Zaccheus Mason
WLB 59 Joel Kight*
WR 124 Ja-Mes Logan*
SLB 26 D.T. Shackelford*
DE 13 Craig Drummond
C 20 Evan Swindall*
RB 103 Stephen Houston
DT 36 Eric Smiley
K 13 Andrew Ritter*
S 53 Frank Crawford*
CB 63 Ryan Campbell
RB 82 Korvic Neat*
CB 54 Charles Sawyer*
RB 41 Rodney Scott
S 41 Artice Kellam
WR 127 Montez Phillips
OT JC Logan Clair
DE 90 Cameron Whigham*
OT 73 Michael Brown
TE 52 Terrell Grant*
P NR Tyler Campbell*
S 112 Dele Junaid
RB 61 Gabriel Hunter
DE 76 Mike Thomas
MLB 41 DeMarcus Knight
OT 72 Emmanuel McCray*
2010
DE 32 Delvin Jones
OLB 39 Ralph Williams*
OLB 101 Cordell Giles
WR 20 Vincent Sanders*
CB NR Cedric Smith
FB 11 Martez Eastland
CB 26 Tony Grimes
DE 17 Carlos Thompson*
LS NR Will Denny*
RB 32 Nick Parker*
WR 82 Quadarias Mireles
DT 22 Carlton Martin*
DT 39 Bryon Bennett*
DE JC Wayne Dorsey
OT PG Terrence Hackney
S JC Damien Jackson
C 16 Chase Hughes*
CB 62 Eric Mitchell
RB 53 Jeff Scott*
OG 33 Jared Duke*
CB 92 Cliff Coleman*
S 65 Brishen Mathews*
OLB 85 Clarence Jackson
QB JC Randall Mackey*
DE PG Mike Thomas
2011
CB NR NR Denzel Nkemdiche*
WR 7 Nick Brassell
MLB 4 C.J. Johnson*
DT JC Uriah Grant*
WR 22 Tobias Singleton
WR JC Philander Moore*
S JC Aaron Garbutt*
OLB 47 Keith Lewis*
DT JC Gilbert Pena*
QB JC Zack Stoudt
S JC Ivan Nicholas*
CB JC Wesley Pendleton*
OG 92 Justin Bell*
TE JC Jamal Mosley*
OG 26 Aaron Morris*
DE 42 Kameron Wood*
WR 54 Collins Moore*
OLB 66 Marcus Mayers
WR 104 T.J. Worthy
DT 99 Woodrow Hamilton*
CB 25 Senquez Golson*
QB 45 Maikhail Miller*
WR 24 Donte Moncrief*
OLB 83 Serderius Bryant*
OG 32 Ethan Hutson*
RB 62 Chief Brown*
S 78 Cody Prewitt*
OT 58 Mitch Hall
85 players total(37 from 2009)
http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/roster/_/id/145/ole-miss-rebels
DE 78 Alex Williams
SLB 13 Willie Ferrell
QB 22 Raymond Cotton
SLB 32 Tim Simon
S JC Jamar Hornsby
WR 182 Jesse Grandy
OT PG Bobby Massie
RB PG Darius Barksdale
WR 5 Pat Patterson
MLB 28 Mike Marry*
C 17 Corey Gaines*
TE 13 Zaccheus Mason
WLB 59 Joel Kight*
WR 124 Ja-Mes Logan*
SLB 26 D.T. Shackelford*
DE 13 Craig Drummond
C 20 Evan Swindall*
RB 103 Stephen Houston
DT 36 Eric Smiley
K 13 Andrew Ritter*
S 53 Frank Crawford*
CB 63 Ryan Campbell
RB 82 Korvic Neat*
CB 54 Charles Sawyer*
RB 41 Rodney Scott
S 41 Artice Kellam
WR 127 Montez Phillips
OT JC Logan Clair
DE 90 Cameron Whigham*
OT 73 Michael Brown
TE 52 Terrell Grant*
P NR Tyler Campbell*
S 112 Dele Junaid
RB 61 Gabriel Hunter
DE 76 Mike Thomas
MLB 41 DeMarcus Knight
OT 72 Emmanuel McCray*
2010
DE 32 Delvin Jones
OLB 39 Ralph Williams*
OLB 101 Cordell Giles
WR 20 Vincent Sanders*
CB NR Cedric Smith
FB 11 Martez Eastland
CB 26 Tony Grimes
DE 17 Carlos Thompson*
LS NR Will Denny*
RB 32 Nick Parker*
WR 82 Quadarias Mireles
DT 22 Carlton Martin*
DT 39 Bryon Bennett*
DE JC Wayne Dorsey
OT PG Terrence Hackney
S JC Damien Jackson
C 16 Chase Hughes*
CB 62 Eric Mitchell
RB 53 Jeff Scott*
OG 33 Jared Duke*
CB 92 Cliff Coleman*
S 65 Brishen Mathews*
OLB 85 Clarence Jackson
QB JC Randall Mackey*
DE PG Mike Thomas
2011
CB NR NR Denzel Nkemdiche*
WR 7 Nick Brassell
MLB 4 C.J. Johnson*
DT JC Uriah Grant*
WR 22 Tobias Singleton
WR JC Philander Moore*
S JC Aaron Garbutt*
OLB 47 Keith Lewis*
DT JC Gilbert Pena*
QB JC Zack Stoudt
S JC Ivan Nicholas*
CB JC Wesley Pendleton*
OG 92 Justin Bell*
TE JC Jamal Mosley*
OG 26 Aaron Morris*
DE 42 Kameron Wood*
WR 54 Collins Moore*
OLB 66 Marcus Mayers
WR 104 T.J. Worthy
DT 99 Woodrow Hamilton*
CB 25 Senquez Golson*
QB 45 Maikhail Miller*
WR 24 Donte Moncrief*
OLB 83 Serderius Bryant*
OG 32 Ethan Hutson*
RB 62 Chief Brown*
S 78 Cody Prewitt*
OT 58 Mitch Hall
85 players total(37 from 2009)
http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/roster/_/id/145/ole-miss-rebels