The economy

Clemblack

Heisman
Aug 6, 2008
7,464
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The illegal migrant farmers and their families that I knew growing up, worked on peach and strawberry farms in the upstate of SC. They lived in CINDER BLOCK SHACKS. What the hell are we talking about bro? They don't live in 3k sq foot mcmansions. The construction workers BUILD the homes. So... now you are going to drive costs up higher since there are less workers. Do you even have the capacity for critical thinking skills?


thousands of illegals own lots of real estate. A friend of mine is considering self deportation as we speak and he's wondering what he's going to do with his real estate. I don't know his net worth but he holds about $2MM worth of homes and land in the low country. His daughter is 15 so he can't transfer to her yet. I've offered to hold everything for him and he's weighing that option.

there are thousands (perhaps millions) like my friend. He's been in the US since 2002.
 
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PalmettoTiger1

Heisman
Jan 24, 2009
12,164
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Ok....??? Why do we scapegoat them? Did Jesus blame the poor for the problems of the rich? Go pray on that

We send them back to their country for illegally entering the US

Anything you do in life ends up bad when you start out bad

Loving Trump

Depot all illegals
 

bdgan

All-Conference
Oct 12, 2021
3,768
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Trump is a bombastic bloviator. There's no question that hiring has slowed but I'm not surprised. Government spending went through the roof in recent years with everything from the American rescue act to the infrastructure bill to the inflation reduction act. There's no question that if you pay for charging stations and new HVAC three will be people hired to do those things. Now that that excess spending is winding down so are the jobs.

The flip side is that these programs fueled inflation and annual deficits doubled. are you suggesting that we keep doubling down on spending to prop up the economy?

Here's the good news. Total payroll employment is at record levels ($159.5 million) and the unemployment rate is still reasonably low at 4.3%. There are still 7.4 million job openings and capital expenditures which portend future economic activity is at record levels. We probably won't know how much the tariffs helped or hurt for several years.
 
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bdgan

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Oct 12, 2021
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Ok....??? Why do we scapegoat them? Did Jesus blame the poor for the problems of the rich? Go pray on that
You call it scapegoating when we deport criminal illegal aliens and stop people from entering our country illegally?
 
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baltimorened

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May 29, 2001
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You call it scapegoating when we deport criminal illegal aliens and stop people from entering our country illegally?
can't continue to afford it. Story this morning that state of Oregon is spending - 2025-2027 - $500million more on healthcare for those in the country illegally than on state police ($1,5 billion vs 717 million)
 

bdgan

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Oct 12, 2021
3,768
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can't continue to afford it. Story this morning that state of Oregon is spending - 2025-2027 - $500million more on healthcare for those in the country illegally than on state police ($1,5 billion vs 717 million)
I recall an article from FAIR a few years ago (before the Biden surge) that said illegal immigration was costing the USA $200 billion per year. The problem is the people who enter illegally tend to be poorly educated, don't speak English, and with limited financial resources. Mot have no money to pay rent and don't pay income or real estate taxes. They use health services and their kids are in schools which creates a burden.

Most find some kind of employment either illegally or because they've been given legal status but they're consuming more than they're contributing.
 
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TheValley91

Heisman
Jan 20, 2013
20,536
17,785
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can't continue to afford it. Story this morning that state of Oregon is spending - 2025-2027 - $500million more on healthcare for those in the country illegally than on state police ($1,5 billion vs 717 million)
Keeping humans healthy is more important to me than locking people up. I'm sure you feel differently.
 
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Rastafarian

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Aug 21, 2025
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thousands of illegals own lots of real estate. A friend of mine is considering self deportation as we speak and he's wondering what he's going to do with his real estate. I don't know his net worth but he holds about $2MM worth of homes and land in the low country. His daughter is 15 so he can't transfer to her yet. I've offered to hold everything for him and he's weighing that option.

there are thousands (perhaps millions) like my friend. He's been in the US since 2002.
This makes no sense. You don’t need to be a citizen of the US to own property.
 

PalmettoTiger1

Heisman
Jan 24, 2009
12,164
11,947
113
I recall an article from FAIR a few years ago (before the Biden surge) that said illegal immigration was costing the USA $200 billion per year. The problem is the people who enter illegally tend to be poorly educated, don't speak English, and with limited financial resources. Mot have no money to pay rent and don't pay income or real estate taxes. They use health services and their kids are in schools which creates a burden.

Most find some kind of employment either illegally or because they've been given legal status but they're consuming more than they're contributing.

During the term of Biden I would make WAG that the US spent at least 5 TRILLION on Illegals and not yo count the crime these 12 million or so created with drugs human trafficking and robberies

Well planned chaos by the Democrats and Biden with the love embrace of the liberals and leftists
 
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bdgan

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Oct 12, 2021
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Keeping humans healthy is more important to me than locking people up. I'm sure you feel differently.
What are you saying? Do you think we should invite all of the poor people in the world and promise to care for them with borrowed money?
 
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baltimorened

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May 29, 2001
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Keeping humans healthy is more important to me than locking people up. I'm sure you feel differently.
not at all, Mexico has either free or low cost heathcare, many if not most of the people who are here illegally came through Mexico. If heathcare was their driving force they could have stopped there. No system or country is equipped to assimilate millions of people with no language skills, work skills, money, places to live, food to eat, etc.

It's great to virtue signal about keeping humans healthy. Who are we locking up other than people who commit crimes? If you are undocumented in the US we have a process to apply for asylum. If asylum is denied you will be sent back to your home country. While waiting for deportation you will be detained. Why will you be detained? well, because a significant number of people set for deportation disappear into the US.

Remember, we have laws and no one is above the law. When someone crosses the border illegally they know they are here in violation of US law. If they get a job here, they know they are in violation of the law. If they overstay their VISA they know they are here in violation of the law.

You violate the law you can expect some form of punishment. Someone here illegally should expect the same. If you don't like the law, you can petition you senators or representatives.

Just as an aside we have somewhere in the vicinity of 20 million Americans without healthcare
 

Clemblack

Heisman
Aug 6, 2008
7,464
13,835
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This makes no sense. You don’t need to be a citizen of the US to own property.


correct. that's what I said.

the poster I originally responded to seemed to believe illegal immigrants don't own homes. They indeed own very many.
 

baltimorened

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
3,736
2,725
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I agree, Ned. It's a bit of a mixed bag right now. I'm not an economist so I have no particular expertise in analyzing this tariffs situation, but I wonder how much of an impact the tariffs are having or will have, and when we might expect that to happen. Lots of posters have noted that many businesses laid in a lot of imported goods prior to the tariffs hitting, or that many tariffs were announced but never imposed, or imposed and later rescinded, so it would seem difficult to assess in any general and definitive fashion. If Trump keeps these tariffs in force for awhile and the courts allow him to do so, we may ultimately be able to detect their effect.
I saw something today either CNBC or Foxbusiness that estimated that tariffs will add .5% to inflation and this was below the previous 1% estimate. Personally, I don't think anybody really knows. It falls into the "transitory" inflation category.
 

baltimorened

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
3,736
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Good commentary



This means that everyone who is waiting for a pullback is implicitly betting on 1 or 2 to happen.
By all classical measures the market is currently highly or very highly valued but nowhere near moderate levels. It has also been a rather long bull run. This naturally creates elevated risks and makes a pullback more likely but not a certainty.
However, the AI theme is unlike any other investment theme I have ever seen in my nearly 30 years in markets and prior cycles I studied.
What makes the AI investment theme so different from other groundbreaking technologies of the past is that it can change every aspect of life.
While other groundbreaking technologies like computers, the internet or smartphones before were limited to certain areas of professional and personal life AI has the potential to touch every aspect of life both in professional and personal life. In other words: it will touch nearly every product and service everyone is consuming and add many new products and services nobody has thought of yet.
On top: AI will penetrate the economy much faster than other technologies, even faster than computers, the internet, or smartphones.
This unprecedented investment theme coincides with the rise of retail investors. Retail investors have never played a bigger role in the most important equity market globally, nothing else is even close: the U.S. equity market.
Retail investors often are driven by a belief in a certain leader, brand, or theme and pay little attention to classical financial considerations. Many did quite well with this approach.
Although the outcome of investing in meme stocks, NFTS, crypto currencies, and ultra-high P/E stocks are mixed there is an increasing number of outliers, outliers which are beyond classical investment analysis.
In essence for something to have value all that is needed is the belief of enough buyers. This is not new. Centuries ago the first fiat currencies may have been the first of such belief-based assets (hence the name fiat or ‘trust’). Meme stocks, NFTS, crypto currencies, and ultra-high P/E stocks may represent an evolutionary step of ‘fiat’ assets or belied-based assets. Just like many fiat currencies, many such new assets will fail but some will prevail.
In addition, there may be a formation of large enough belief-based investor circles which creates a self-reinforcing cycle not too dissimilar from a Ponzi scheme. Although some may find the comparison with a Ponzi scheme offensive, the stock market overall is very similar to a perpetual looking Ponzi scheme. Classical finance theory defines the value of a company, as expressed in share prices, as the net present value of future cash flows.
What’s typically omitted is the fact that the same theory postulates return of these cash flows to shareholders. In fact, the entire financial markets theory is based on the assumption that the investment is returned to the investor.
This is where financial market theory and reality differ in immeasurable ways: there is not a single company which ever returned the cash flow equivalent to the investment. Also, modern executive compensation schemes have made it even more elusive since paying dividends makes little sense from management’s perspective when a share buyback can boost earnings per share (a key metric in nearly all executive compensation schemes).
Also, most companies experience the following ark: they rise, get added to the S&P 500, stay there for some time, drop out, and never recover. The average age of an S&P 500 company has dropped below 20 years. The promised cash flow never flowed back to the investor: that is the stock market Ponzi scheme.
At this point you may wonder what this all has to do with the central question of this post at the beginning? The answer is everything.
The AI theme is so different and powerful, and Tesla viewed by such a large number of investors both inside and outside the U.S. as a likely winner that this enormous momentum is unlikely to be captured by classical analysis tools, just as they failed to capture similar belief-based assets.
And let’s be clear: a Tesla investment is mostly an investment in Elon. He galvanizes millions of young and old investors. That’s why many compare the Tesla investment community to a cult. I think it is an accurate comparison but unfortunately the term “cult” is universally negatively connotated even though there can be “cults” that are mostly positive where they help people.
“Get to the point AJ” many will be thinking at this point.
The gist of it all is that I won’t pretend to know what will happen since I believe we move into a new era in financial markets and AI systems likely have closed short-term alpha opportunities already. Hence, obsessing over relatively short-term price movements appears increasingly a futile exercise. “Keeping eyes on the ball” and not be distracted by noise (like temporary demand weakness in the U.S.) may be more important than ever before.
having lived through the dot.com bubble, one key for me is profitability of the individual companies. Back in the day, "investers" were driving up share prices of companies losing tons of money. And then someone discovered that the king was actually naked and that was the beginning of the end. I was in the international business development world, and while ai will likely be useful in some repetitive aspects of the business I can't see it eliminating the face to face interactions between seller and buyer. Right now everyone in the business community is looking at ways to incorporate ai. Some will succeed and some will discover it's not worth it.
 

TheValley91

Heisman
Jan 20, 2013
20,536
17,785
97
What are you saying? Do you think we should invite all of the poor people in the world and promise to care for them with borrowed money?
If you think thats a reasonable question then we won't be able to have a further discussion on this topic.
 
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bdgan

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Oct 12, 2021
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If you think thats a reasonable question then we won't be able to have a further discussion on this topic
I agree that my question sounds ridiculous but it was a serious question.

Your exact words were "Keeping humans healthy is more important to me than locking people up." What exactly do you mean by that? It sounds to me that you think we should allow people to enter our country illegally and we should provide them with healthcare. It also that you believe this should apply to illegals who have committed other crimes. I think that's ridiculous but it sounds like that's what you support.

Set me straight by telling me how you would handle illegal immigration and how we should pay to keep everybody healthy.
 

TheValley91

Heisman
Jan 20, 2013
20,536
17,785
97
not at all, Mexico has either free or low cost heathcare, many if not most of the people who are here illegally came through Mexico. If heathcare was their driving force they could have stopped there. No system or country is equipped to assimilate millions of people with no language skills, work skills, money, places to live, food to eat, etc.

It's great to virtue signal about keeping humans healthy. Who are we locking up other than people who commit crimes? If you are undocumented in the US we have a process to apply for asylum. If asylum is denied you will be sent back to your home country. While waiting for deportation you will be detained. Why will you be detained? well, because a significant number of people set for deportation disappear into the US.

Remember, we have laws and no one is above the law. When someone crosses the border illegally they know they are here in violation of US law. If they get a job here, they know they are in violation of the law. If they overstay their VISA they know they are here in violation of the law.

You violate the law you can expect some form of punishment. Someone here illegally should expect the same. If you don't like the law, you can petition you senators or representatives.

Just as an aside we have somewhere in the vicinity of 20 million Americans without healthcare
Virtue signaling about we have laws and no one is about the law. Look at the guy you elected man.

Next thing specific to Oregon, crime has been dropping throughout the state and even with that the budget for state police is increasing by 6.3%. How much more do you want?

I read the article you referenced. Its a right wing news source and clearly read like one. I mean the last half was just talking about Portland and ICE. It was also extremely vague on the health services that immigrants without status could acquire. As we know now, they are only covered for emergency or pregnancy care.

And to your last point about 20 million Americans without healthcare, if the CR goes through as the republicans want, you have even more Americans without healthcare due to rising premiums. But yeah those damn illegals.
 

TheValley91

Heisman
Jan 20, 2013
20,536
17,785
97
I agree that my question sounds ridiculous but it was a serious question.

Your exact words were "Keeping humans healthy is more important to me than locking people up." What exactly do you mean by that? It sounds to me that you think we should allow people to enter our country illegally and we should provide them with healthcare. It also that you believe this should apply to illegals who have committed other crimes. I think that's ridiculous but it sounds like that's what you support.

Set me straight by telling me how you would handle illegal immigration and how we should pay to keep everybody healthy.
You are right its a ridiculous question. Thats about the only thing you got here.
 

baltimorened

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
3,736
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Virtue signaling about we have laws and no one is about the law. Look at the guy you elected man.

Next thing specific to Oregon, crime has been dropping throughout the state and even with that the budget for state police is increasing by 6.3%. How much more do you want?

I read the article you referenced. Its a right wing news source and clearly read like one. I mean the last half was just talking about Portland and ICE. It was also extremely vague on the health services that immigrants without status could acquire. As we know now, they are only covered for emergency or pregnancy care.

And to your last point about 20 million Americans without healthcare, if the CR goes through as the republicans want, you have even more Americans without healthcare due to rising premiums. But yeah those damn illegals.
without trying to rebut everything in your post. Let's just agree that we'll never see eye to eye on all these topics. I will say though that I didn't elect Trump. There were millions of people, in fact, more than for Harris, that elected trump.

And relative to American healthcare, and maybe this is something we can agree on, The Affordable care act did not deliver on it's promises. And I'm not blaming that on the people who crafted it and passed it. And, i'm totally on board with the extension of subsidies to more people and in value during the pandemic. But IMo, the solution is not just throwing more money at the problem. Now having said that, it's time to admit that the portion of the act called "affordable" is not. And I think the Democrats position for the shutdown proves that. And your statement about people not being able to afford their healthcare sort of reinforces that also. (by the way one of the promises made by Obama during the debates over the ACA was that people in the country illegally would not be eligible)

With all those things said, here's what I think we might be able to agree on, the ACA needs to be modified, severely. There has to be a way to not only insure more people, but also to allow those people to afford it without breaking the federal budget. There also has to be a way to sharply cut back the deductibles all Americans pay. Some with medications. There has to be a way to bring down the costs.

The only way we would come up with such a plan is for both republicans and democrats, recognizing that we have a problem, agreeing to throw party loyalties and reelection priorities out the window and act to craft a program that benefits as many Americans as possible. There are some good points in the original act and these might be a starting point.

What we have isn't working for either the people in ACA or those in private /company / or other insurance plans. We can do better.

Now, you've been relatively negative about intentions. Do you have a better solution?
 

Clemblack

Heisman
Aug 6, 2008
7,464
13,835
56
I agree that my question sounds ridiculous but it was a serious question.

Your exact words were "Keeping humans healthy is more important to me than locking people up." What exactly do you mean by that? It sounds to me that you think we should allow people to enter our country illegally and we should provide them with healthcare. It also that you believe this should apply to illegals who have committed other crimes. I think that's ridiculous but it sounds like that's what you support.

Set me straight by telling me how you would handle illegal immigration and how we should pay to keep everybody healthy.



would love to see him attempt this lol
 
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LafayetteBear

All-American
Nov 30, 2009
32,147
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thousands of illegals own lots of real estate. A friend of mine is considering self deportation as we speak and he's wondering what he's going to do with his real estate. I don't know his net worth but he holds about $2MM worth of homes and land in the low country. His daughter is 15 so he can't transfer to her yet. I've offered to hold everything for him and he's weighing that option.

there are thousands (perhaps millions) like my friend. He's been in the US since 2002.
You don't need to be a U.S. citizen to own U.S. real estate. (There may be a few exceptions to that rule in the case of particularly sensitive parcels of real estate, but I am not aware of any.) Managing real estate from a remote (non-U.S.) location might be problematic for your friend, but he could always hire someone to manage the real property for him. But ownership and management are two separate things. He is certainly not precluded from owning if he self-deports.
 

bdgan

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Oct 12, 2021
3,768
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My answer was my first response to you. Pretty clear.
You either can't or won't tell me what you would do other than provide more healthcare and don't lock up criminal illegals. That sounds a lot like "Trump sucks and I'm not talking any more about it".
 

PalmettoTiger1

Heisman
Jan 24, 2009
12,164
11,947
113
Jesus wasn't a convicted felon, he was accused of blasphemy
Would you be so kind to list Trump's long list of crimes so we can compare them to Jesus?
Personally based on what I know about Trump which is second hand heresy and then what I know about Jesus is centuries old heresy written on parchment paper and converted from Hebrew to Kings English is that neither one are guilty of anything except not catering to people with your ideals for both.

Hope that answers your question for a friend
 

dpic73

Heisman
Jul 27, 2005
26,850
19,884
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Personally based on what I know about Trump which is second hand heresy and then what I know about Jesus is centuries old heresy written on parchment paper and converted from Hebrew to Kings English is that neither one are guilty of anything except not catering to people with your ideals for both.

Hope that answers your question for a friend
Bwah, you are so stupid. You're calling actual court cases with thousands of pages of evidence "hearsay?" Not something a jury can convict you of Peepaw, good grief, what a brown noser.

Let's compare them in other ways:

Jesus is known as a truth teller
Trump's number 1 defining characteristic is being a pathological liar.

How else would you like to compare them?
 

PalmettoTiger1

Heisman
Jan 24, 2009
12,164
11,947
113
Bwah, you are so stupid. You're calling actual court cases with thousands of pages of evidence "hearsay?" Not something a jury can convict you of Peepaw, good grief, what a brown noser.

Let's compare them in other ways:

Jesus is known as a truth teller
Trump's number 1 defining characteristic is being a pathological liar.

How else would you like to compare them?

Bwah, you are so stupid. You're calling actual court cases with thousands of pages of evidence "hearsay?" Not something a jury can convict you of Peepaw, good grief, what a brown noser.

Let's compare them in other ways:

Jesus is known as a truth teller
Trump's number 1 defining characteristic is being a pathological liar.

How else would you like to compare them?

I am heading to bed,

Please stay up all night and fill me in tomorrow.