At first I didn't like it either. But I'm not sure anymore. Maybe I read this on here or maybe I read it on another site or maybe I just made it up in my mind, I can't remember, but maybe Kylo Ren is trying to balance both sides of the force. He is to become both light and dark. If that is the line they are going to take then it would make sense for Kylo Ren to remove his helmet so much. With that in mind, when he removes the helmet, what is said or done during those scenes would be very important to his overall character arc.
The Force Awakens
- Thread starter UK_Is_Good
- Start date
I don't remember Luke doing Jedi Mind tricks within a few minutes.
Lifting a few rocks yes, but forcing his will over another , no.
Leia and Mon Mothma, both female, were pretty much the leaders of the rebellion in the OT. And the Snoke thing? You're complaining about something that existed in an early draft of the film that didn't even survive into the casting process.
He was able to jump out of the carbonite chamber. Even Vader was impressed with that move.
And while we are at it knocking Vader off the platform in cloud city was way more impressive than what Rey did to Ren.
That was a middle finger.
If you think disagreeing on interpretations from a film as "having a problem with everyone" then I don't know what to tell you. That's part of the fun of having conversations. You don't have to agree in unison.
Saw this online somewhere. Can't verify if this is forgetting something as I haven't recently watched the OT.
"Let's look at what Luke has actually managed to do with the power of the Force, on-screen.
Episode IV
- Blocking a toy dueling droid from hitting him with non-lethal lasers while blind
- Timing perfectly a pre-programmed photon torpedo to barrel down a thermal exhaust port
- Tug a lightsaber out of snow
- Have a very vague vision of disaster (that lost him an arm)
- Jump like Michael Jackson out of the Carbonite Pit
- Connect with his sister's latent force sensitivity by shouting
- Get a bunch of weak-minded lackeys to almost turn on Jabba before getting awoken.
- Catch a lightsaber in midair like um....a good Football Player?
- Tell that he shouldn't have been on the mission because of Vader
- Levitate C3P0 on a chair"
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Couldn't the force just be stronger in Rey than it was in Luke or Annakin or anyone ever? Wouldn't that be enough to justify those things?
Vader deflected a laser with his (gloved) hands. Kylo stopped the laser midair and kept it there. Vader's little deflection (which could have been non-force b/c the gloves) <<<<<<<<<<<< stopping a laser/plasma/whatever beam midair.
Re: Kylo taking off his helmet. I think it fits both with the character's age/temperament and the Sith. Kylo is young and impulsive, whereas Vader was older and wiser. The Sith are about passion and emotion, which seemed to fit him taking off his helmet at a couple of points. And of course he's not completely disfigured like Vader. But he's certainly not as intimidating as Vader. Loved the temper tantrums where he just spazzed out in anger.
Edit: now that I think about it, I think that the more impressive stuff re: Rey and Kylo might just be how movies have changed over the years. Kylo's tricks seem more impressive than Vader's. Rey seems better than Luke was at the same age. But what about things like Bond being orders of magnitude more capable, super heroes now have to do things like be basically invincible or have even super sized powers (Hulk now compared to TV hulk), etc... Everything is just more now, which is why I found the Bourne series refreshing (it, too, got carried away). Even R2D2 got all sorts of new tricks in the prequels. If Kylo was just deflecting blaster bolts with his hands we'd yawn.
Re: Kylo taking off his helmet. I think it fits both with the character's age/temperament and the Sith. Kylo is young and impulsive, whereas Vader was older and wiser. The Sith are about passion and emotion, which seemed to fit him taking off his helmet at a couple of points. And of course he's not completely disfigured like Vader. But he's certainly not as intimidating as Vader. Loved the temper tantrums where he just spazzed out in anger.
Edit: now that I think about it, I think that the more impressive stuff re: Rey and Kylo might just be how movies have changed over the years. Kylo's tricks seem more impressive than Vader's. Rey seems better than Luke was at the same age. But what about things like Bond being orders of magnitude more capable, super heroes now have to do things like be basically invincible or have even super sized powers (Hulk now compared to TV hulk), etc... Everything is just more now, which is why I found the Bourne series refreshing (it, too, got carried away). Even R2D2 got all sorts of new tricks in the prequels. If Kylo was just deflecting blaster bolts with his hands we'd yawn.
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Telekinesis is a basic ability for even Padawans.
We saw Padawan Anakin jump off a vehicle and through down traffic to land on a shape-shifting assassin vehicle.
He couldn't have wove through that traffic and safely land with out the telekinetic use of the Force.
Luke's actual training by Yoda was limited and IMO he could only teach Luke a few of the basic powers. Considering his potential and focus on a few powers, he could be quite impressive at those few skills. Like jumping over great distances with telekinetic ability.
Also this scene shows Obi-Wan a Jedi Knight using the mind trick. I don't recall him being able to do it as a Padawan.
Considering Rey age-wise was just a Youngling at the time she was left on Jakku.
As for Ren VS Rey battle of the minds. We know the ability like the mind trick works on the weak minded and excludes some aliens like the Hutts.
Ren isn't well trained and he was attempting a Jedi/Sith master level ability against an individual not only strong willed but has strong Force sensitivity.
Poe Dameron even gave Ren a hard fight in interrogation until he cracked about BB-8.
With Rey fighting back unlike any other , he was taken back and gave into fear.
Overall I found it to be poor writing and a lot of pandering.
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For abilities like precognition, I can believe.
Rey's ability to fight by dodging the blows, little Anny ability to pod-race by dodging debris and other racers, Luke's ability to slay Death Stars like womp rats.
But haven't you ever seen a strong person taken down by someone weaker but has training?
Yes. But Kylo Ren was injured twice and was fighting from a place of emotion not composure. He was completely erratic. Finn who isn't force sensitive, that we know of, held his own.
I'm not even sure what Free is arguing but using the prequels is laughable at best. Especially the part where Obi Wan didn't do a Jedi mind trick in the first one. You didn't see him take a dump either but I'm sure he could take a dump.
not meant to be taken literally word for word; i assume your name probably isn't Bob either. but yes, not every thing has to be the great-liberal-white male-oppression media driven brain-washing conspiracy to institute sharia law in your neighborhood agenda.
I get the Rey vs Ren in physical combat. Ren was shot, just killed his father and totally off balance.
The precognitive ability to dodge blows like she did in the market with the thugs, much like Luke and the training bot, I consider a basic ability of Force sensitivity.
The ability to force ones mental will over another would require instructed training. I've not seen any character not trained at a full Jedi level do it in the movies.
So Episode 4,5 and 6 are laughable prequels to 7? I'm using what's been shown on the big screen and not hypothetical assumptions of "It is what It Is. "
Much like HW85 questions about the blue lightsaber some how re-appearing in the movie after it was lost like it's the freaking One Ring.
Yes but just because we haven't seen it done doesn't mean someone can't do it. It will need to be addressed in someway in episode VIII. Either she had training and her memory erased (I don't believe this to be the case), obi wan was talking to her the entire time, or she is just that strong with the force. I'm going to go with the last option. Or there might be something we aren't considering.I get the Rey vs Ren in physical combat. Ren was shot, just killed his father and totally off balance.
The precognitive ability to dodge blows like she did in the market with the thugs, much like Luke and the training bot, I consider a basic ability of Force sensitivity.
The ability to force ones mental will over another would require instructed training. I've not seen any character not trained at a full Jedi level do it in the movies.
So Episode 4,5 and 6 are laughable prequels to 7? I'm using what's been shown on the big screen and not hypothetical assumptions of "It is what It Is. "
Much like HW85 questions about the blue lightsaber some how re-appearing in the movie after it was lost like it's the freaking One Ring.
At lot of the "but why?!?! It makes no sense!!!" complaining can in my opinion be chalked up to one thing: For most of us we've always had access to the entire original trilogy. I was born in 1979, two years after 4 and a year before 5 was released. Seeing 6 with my dad is the first film I have clear memories of seeing in a theater. I've personally never experienced the wait between Star Wars movies where I had to wonder what was going to happen next, or what was true. The prequels aren't the same thing, because we knew the ending going in and the movies were really just filling in the details. TFA raised more questions than it answered - but isn't that exactly what the first installment in a new trilogy should do? They want people to be talking about all the what ifs for the next two years, so that they break down the theater doors to get some answers. So, to me, you can't really say "it makes no sense for Rey to be able to do X" when we don't know the full story yet. Once we do, it might make perfect sense.
Look I think it was pretty obvious from the vision she had when she grabbed the lightsaber that she was actually there when Kylo killed all the Jedi trainee's. Somehow she was spared and left on Jakku. Clearly she has fighting skills and has been trained by someone. I also felt like Kylo realized who was foiling his plans when they mentioned a girl got in the way. My bet is she was trained by Luke and she is obviously related to someone as well. Everyone is going to feel really stupid about getting their panties in a wad over a girl being gifted in the force as the rest of the story plays out.
Also, Rey is probably not Rey's real name. Remember that rebel helmet she puts in at her house in Jakku? It belonged to someone named Raeh. She probably gave herself that name on Jakku.
I don't think it's obvious. They also show her on Cloud City and she wasn't there (at least until the Blu-Ray super edition where you see baby Rey hanging in the background as Vader says "I am your father").
cb is dead on, if we had all the answers we wouldn't need the next two movies.
Also please remember 2 extra movies are being released to show what happened between 3/4 and 6/7. Those movies will shine light on a lot of stuff people just don't understand.
Also people have to realize if the force is with you then your environment is going to give you practice anyway. I mean Rey kicked the **** out of two dudes before even meeting chewie and Hans Salo. However she had a clear understanding of Luke and the history of the Jedi and may have at times practiced on her own to become a Jedi at some point and just had small abilities.
The reason Luke needed so much training was because he was old when we first saw him.
Also please remember 2 extra movies are being released to show what happened between 3/4 and 6/7. Those movies will shine light on a lot of stuff people just don't understand.
Also people have to realize if the force is with you then your environment is going to give you practice anyway. I mean Rey kicked the **** out of two dudes before even meeting chewie and Hans Salo. However she had a clear understanding of Luke and the history of the Jedi and may have at times practiced on her own to become a Jedi at some point and just had small abilities.
The reason Luke needed so much training was because he was old when we first saw him.
Rogue One is about stealing the first Death Star plans, so it takes place just before 4. The Han Solo movie is sometime between 3 and 4. The third spinoff is believed to be a Boba Fett movie of some sort, but this hasn't been confirmed. This is pure speculation on my part, but my guess is after Rebels ends, there will be some sort of animated series set between 6 and 7.
I've read somewhere that rogue one is set for this December to explain things between 3/4. I've heard rumors a "rogue two" will also explain things between 6/7, so I don't have a link but I'll look and see if I can find one because I read it somewhere as pure speculation at this point.
Rey was like 6 when she left for Jakku with repressed memories, I don't see how that's a clear understanding of Jedi abilities.
Both Luke and Rey are 19 when we meet them. But Rey is like off the charts super Jedi compared to Luke.
http://fakingstarwars.net/2016/01/07/rogue-three-the-rogue-anthology-is-a-trilogy/
Clearly not the most respectable site but......
Clearly not the most respectable site but......
It seems that people during Rey's time are a lot more aware about Jedi's and sith of the the world is what I meant. Not an understanding of the actual Jedi force.
That site is a spoof of makingstarwars (which is probably the best source for legit news).
Like I said that site isn't the best for reputation but for a quick glance research on it I found that fast. I read about the rogue 1-2-3 back when the force awakens came out but it wasn't that site.
Right now I'm on too many drugs to focus long enough to really research anything.
No ones mentioning that among Luke's powers was the ability to see the future in his training with Yoda. He was also able to hear Obi Wan very early in his training - immediately after his death then again at the Death Star attack. Plus ghost vision on Hoth. Except for the vision Rey had when holding the light saber, we don't know for certain if she had any visions or voices speaking to her.
Amped up! Dodging the snow storm for my third viewing tonight. I just discovered this thread yesterday and finished reading all 28 pages of theories. What fun!
Amped up! Dodging the snow storm for my third viewing tonight. I just discovered this thread yesterday and finished reading all 28 pages of theories. What fun!