the Henigs put their State banner up .....
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After watching Mullen coach a competent football team it shows that Crxxms not only knew little about coaching a football team, but what little he did know was absolutely wrong. You can't fault a two star recruit for taking a starting job in the SEC, though you can fault him for sucking at it. It wasn't his fault that keeping a guy from getting 6 after a pick was the best highlight the coach perceived. The guy was a bad college player, but every team - even the Bamas and Floridas and USCs - has those. The only difference was our coach decided to not only start him but to also not teach him a damn useful thing about how to be a quarterback.
Why everybody hated him. He played hard on a team that was terrible. He may not have been sec caliber, and so 75% of the rest of the team. He had one of the best arms of any msu qb.
And he had a stretch against Kentucky and arkansas where he out up good stats before he got hurt again. He was put in an almost impossible position. I respect him hell of alot more than over hyped Kevin fant who quit team and bought tires that got him suspended when he was a senior. Some leader he was.
And he had a stretch against Kentucky and arkansas where he out up good stats before he got hurt again. He was put in an almost impossible position. I respect him hell of alot more than over hyped Kevin fant who quit team and bought tires that got him suspended when he was a senior. Some leader he was.
They're LOADED too. Guess they don't mind if they lose a few Auburn customers.
Wish they'd chip in on the stadium expansion.
Wish they'd chip in on the stadium expansion.
Besides that, I disagree about Henig's arm. MSU has had such horrible QB play in our history that people think Henig had a good arm. He didn't. He was terribly inaccurate. He completed around 40% of his passes. I don't care who you are, that is terrible. He threw more picks than TDs - that also makes you bad. Henig had a few games with good yardage stats, but his completion percentage was still bad and he threw crucial picks in those games. Also, one could argue that the yardage was largely due to having that good JUCO receiver (can't think of his name).
All of that said, Henig didn't recruit himself nor start himself. I admire his willingness to come back even after breaking bones. I was glad his career ended, but I put the blame on Crooms. Regardless, that's in the past. We actually have a competent coach now, so let's try to leave the Crooms error behind.
All of that said, Henig didn't recruit himself nor start himself. I admire his willingness to come back even after breaking bones. I was glad his career ended, but I put the blame on Crooms. Regardless, that's in the past. We actually have a competent coach now, so let's try to leave the Crooms error behind.
if he had had any help whatsoever. His entire career our offensive line absolutely sucked. He got hit more times than any qb I ever remember and he still got up and kept playing. He just had no help
i cussed him just like everyone else, but he played his *** off when he was in there. 95% of that is on croom, period.
As for fant, was just there at a ****** time when folks didnt care and our line was ****. You switch him and eli, take away mannings name and fant puts up similar numbers and eli falls to nothing. We were that bad. Neither of those guys had the urgency that many other football players have. Both are very laid back and almost come across as not giving a ****.
As for fant, was just there at a ****** time when folks didnt care and our line was ****. You switch him and eli, take away mannings name and fant puts up similar numbers and eli falls to nothing. We were that bad. Neither of those guys had the urgency that many other football players have. Both are very laid back and almost come across as not giving a ****.
Sure he threw some beautiful balls. He had the prettiest natural pass I've ever seen from an MSU QB. Perfect spiral. But he threw a lot more horrible balls that were many times on him, not the line or the coach or anyone else. You seem to have got this idea of Fant Greatness when he was in high school and just couldn't let it go no matter how many times he turned the ball over, not to mention a Senior QB setting the worst example possible for his teammates, many of whom were Freshmen and Sophomores. Not (again) to mention the potential recruits and their families who viewed the Fant circus. I personally think he hurt our team more than any other player I can think of. Sorry for saying so, but stop this fantasy please.
He did have one or two great games. A lot of good they did us . . . You've got to build on achievement to make it matter.
Madkin was an actualy accomplished MSU qb that got dumped so the Fant circus could get into full swing. JWS resisted. He knew better. But when Madkin got injured he had to give in. What was our record for the 5 years after that? What was our record for the five years before?
He did have one or two great games. A lot of good they did us . . . You've got to build on achievement to make it matter.
Madkin was an actualy accomplished MSU qb that got dumped so the Fant circus could get into full swing. JWS resisted. He knew better. But when Madkin got injured he had to give in. What was our record for the 5 years after that? What was our record for the five years before?
and you will see a night and day comparison. We could have had Joe Montana playing QB and he would have sucked a fat one with that OL that Fant had his final two years. It's pretty difficult to throw any decent pass from your *** or running for your life. I attended every home game during that stretch so I can recall them vividly. Sherrill basically told LT to go 17 himself and stopped giving a 17 about the team. OL play declined after the 2001 LT being a *****. Come on now and see the facts.
Also, look at the OL that Madkin played with. Off the top of my head I believe around 3 or 4 of them started in the NFL. It's not like that helped Madkin out any. I mean what did Michael Oher do for some average Bear QB's. How did this specific Heisman Hopeful QB fair after Oher went to the NFL. But what would I know about a great OL making a QB look good? I could sit here for hours providing examples, but I believe you can see my point.
Also, look at the OL that Madkin played with. Off the top of my head I believe around 3 or 4 of them started in the NFL. It's not like that helped Madkin out any. I mean what did Michael Oher do for some average Bear QB's. How did this specific Heisman Hopeful QB fair after Oher went to the NFL. But what would I know about a great OL making a QB look good? I could sit here for hours providing examples, but I believe you can see my point.
Take away the 4th and 15 conversion and the snow bowl winning TD, and you've got an average QB over the course of 4 years. Also be mindful of the fact that Madkin played in an offense that was as basic as it gets. When you have a top 5 defense, you're told "just don't lose it" on offense. Add a JJ Johnson,Dicenzo Miller and a skinny Dontae Walker in the backfield behind you and you've basically got the same offense that Baltimore won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer. To Madkin's credit, he didn't blow it but to shame Fant for not having the same luxuries as Madkin is misguided. Fant would run circles around Madkin in a real offense, all things equal.
<table summary="user post and replies"><tbody id="post-id-2.1" class="expandable post reply odd therightway"><tr><td class="th post-subject"><span class="post-title">You could not be more wrong about Fant.</span></td><td class="th post-number"></td><td class="th toggle lastcol"><span class="collapse-button">[-]</span></td></tr><tr class="collapsible-content"><td class="poster-detail firstcol"><div class="avatar-block"><p class="post-date"><span></span>I remeber Fant's first Egg Bowl. The announcers were like "Eli who?"
Too bad he became a head case under Crxxm</p></div></td><td class="post-content lastcol" colspan="3"><div class="post-body"><div class="scrolling">
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Too bad he became a head case under Crxxm</p></div></td><td class="post-content lastcol" colspan="3"><div class="post-body"><div class="scrolling">
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I know you didn't mean to say that. Maybe Fant is better than I thought. Still, our team took a nosedive after he took over, and he did not help matters with quitting and everything else. He also threw some of the most boneheaded interceptions I've ever seen. I just believe that quarterback is about leadership as much as it is about passing footballs, and I believe that good quarterbacks make the players around them play better. And I never saw Fant do that. I'm not saying that a college senior has to have the maturity of a coach, but to be a good quarterback I do believe he has to have a broader perspective and be committed to understanding more than his own point of view. Bottom line is that those years are a disaster and I feel terrible about participating in bringing them back up during these great times.
I apologize.
I apologize.
I was quite impressed by it then as well. It is right off the highway from Auburn to Montgomery, whatever it is.
the '99Egg Bowl (and LSU game if we're talking about comebacks in general), I see. I've never fully understood the Madkin hate, even while it was going on. The guy was playing with a pinsticking out of his hand, and I was still hearing how we needed "a real quarterback" from friends and family.PanolaDog said:
As for Fant, he was impressive in the 2001 Egg Bowl. That was the highlight of his time.
He ran up a ton of numbers inshoot-outsthat often turned to blow-outs. He obviously gave up on his team eventually as well. In similar circumstances, Wayne Madkin was sticking the ball in his receivers' facemasks, and Fant was just lofting them downfield.
Wayne Madkin won more games as an MSU QB than any other QB we've ever had. He was a competitor and he got the job done. I never understood people that dogged him his entire run here, including dubmass ****** who blamed him for our ****-tastic 2001 season. Like it was Madkin's fault our receivers couldn't catch a cold.
He won the SEC West as a redshirt freshman. He lead us to 10 wins with a crappy offensive line and no receivers as a sophomore. He had some incredible games as a junior. He left the 2000 Egg Bowl after getting us the lead while having the 17-ing FLU. I will remind you Kevin Fant lost that game, not Madkin. Then in 2001 Madkin is out throwing passes and hitting receivers in the numbers, and they are being dropped - and somehow it's HIS fault.
I guess by then people were so used to dogging him they just couldn't stop.
I'd love to have Wayne Madkin under this staff for 5 years because I think he'd kick all kinds of ***.
He won the SEC West as a redshirt freshman. He lead us to 10 wins with a crappy offensive line and no receivers as a sophomore. He had some incredible games as a junior. He left the 2000 Egg Bowl after getting us the lead while having the 17-ing FLU. I will remind you Kevin Fant lost that game, not Madkin. Then in 2001 Madkin is out throwing passes and hitting receivers in the numbers, and they are being dropped - and somehow it's HIS fault.
I guess by then people were so used to dogging him they just couldn't stop.
I'd love to have Wayne Madkin under this staff for 5 years because I think he'd kick all kinds of ***.
Madkin was by and large our best option at QB during that time but that's a testament to Jackie's unwillingness to play high octane offensive football. Hell, we never exactly been Quarterback U, so by State standards, I suppose Madkin was average to maybe a little better than average. His winning percentage as a starter is good but people forget that Wyatt can be credited with about 4 saves. I guess my point is Madkin may have been adequate at MSU but anywhere else, without a top ranked defense and without a punishing ground game, he'd be a non factor. The fact will always remain that in '99, we were a big play QB away from national title contention. But again, I understand that it's not his fault that his coach never believed in winning games with finesse offense. I just don't get the Fant hate. Jesus, Madkin had JJ, D .Miller, and Donate (the smaller version) in his backfield. Fant had Fred Reid. Madkin had Pork Chop among others in front of him. Fant had complete jokes blocking in front of him. Not saying Fant would have been a savior but who knows if given a better hand?
they were like thrown into a lions den every week. I must have been like playing oklahoma with no blocker every week. I bet that sucked ***. It is almost like if our o-line would have juststepped out of the way they wouldv'e had more time. Charles Barklery Turrible.
We shouldn't even be having this discussion on the eve of a big game in which Relf,THE best State QB in 20 years (Yeah I said it) will lead us to victory tomorrow.
I can think of 2 where Wyatt saved the day. Auburn and Kentucky. He couldn't do it against Arkansas, and there were a couple of other games where he had opportunities before the final drive and didn't produce what we needed.
Anyway, that's not a knock on Wyatt: I'm glad he was there to win it for us. However, Auburn and UK vs Wayne's LSU and UM makes it a wash just for that season.
In the meantime, the real issue is that "average" at almost any other SEC school is great at Mississipp State. Wayne gets to easily go in our top 5 QBs of all time not just in wins, but in skill set. Jackie Parker, John Bond, Sleepy....who else are you going to add? Don Smith? He was bottled up quickly. Dave Marler? One season of nice passing. Our QB history is nearly abyssmal. And while I hope Relf has the greatest season in State QB history this year, barring some major hardware, he won't top Wayne's careerin many books.
Anyway, that's not a knock on Wyatt: I'm glad he was there to win it for us. However, Auburn and UK vs Wayne's LSU and UM makes it a wash just for that season.
In the meantime, the real issue is that "average" at almost any other SEC school is great at Mississipp State. Wayne gets to easily go in our top 5 QBs of all time not just in wins, but in skill set. Jackie Parker, John Bond, Sleepy....who else are you going to add? Don Smith? He was bottled up quickly. Dave Marler? One season of nice passing. Our QB history is nearly abyssmal. And while I hope Relf has the greatest season in State QB history this year, barring some major hardware, he won't top Wayne's careerin many books.