The McConnell plan B on Iran? Thoughts?

[DvlDog4WVU]

Essentially, its proposing sanctions cannot be lifted by the President until Iran releases our 4 prisoners and agree to Israel's right to exist.

In my opinion, I think the latter is a stretch and thrown in there just so the Dems will vote it down. I do think the prisoner release is a no brainer and one that should have been in the original deal. As it stands, the US gets basically nothing out of the deal.

 

[bornaneer]

The release of the four prisoners should have been the number one requirement before any deal was reached.

 

[mneilmont]

Essentially, its proposing sanctions cannot be lifted by the President until Iran releases our 4 prisoners and agree to Israel's right to exist.

In my opinion, I think the latter is a stretch and thrown in there just so the Dems will vote it down. I do think the prisoner release is a no brainer and one that should have been in the original deal. As it stands, the US gets basically nothing out of the deal.

When the leader of your team says he will take any offer that is proposed in order to close the deal, we should have no favorable expectations from the negotiations. Probably ever country out there who has the need for negotiations with our country know of the history and the withdrawing/retreating lines in the sand. The only country that I see who could not have favorable results from negotiations with us would be Israel. Our leader would get *** kicked all over the lot with anyone but our friend, Israel, IMO.

 

[Airport]

The release should have been a pre-requisite. I would hope that everybody on both sides could agree on that. It really shouldn't be a partisan issue.

 

[WVPATX]

Essentially, its proposing sanctions cannot be lifted by the President until Iran releases our 4 prisoners and agree to Israel's right to exist.

In my opinion, I think the latter is a stretch and thrown in there just so the Dems will vote it down. I do think the prisoner release is a no brainer and one that should have been in the original deal. As it stands, the US gets basically nothing out of the deal.

Voting on the release of the 4 prisoners is a no brainer. However, I think the Senate should follow the House and declare that the Cardin/Corker requirements have not been met and that the clock for Congressional action has not yet started. Cardin/Corker requires all information about the deal be turned over for review, specifically including side deals. The Iran/IAEA deal has never been turned over. Therefore, no sanctions relief for Iran and the other countries would be warned about doing business with Iran prior to a Congressional vote. Obama thought he was being clever by declaring this an Executive Agreement rather than a treaty, which is BS. He knew he couldn't get the votes. With Corker/Cardin he only needs 34 votes to win which is insane. Only 21% of the American people support the deal.

 

[Thumper]

The release should have been a pre-requisite. I would hope that everybody on both sides could agree on that. It really shouldn't be a partisan issue.

Agree completely.

 

[Keyser76]

The Pope supports the deal, imagine that? Can't wait to see the GOP deal with his visit, he is going to give six of his speeches in Spanish and there won't be a one to push for English, or American as Sarah calls it,

 

[WVPATX]

The Pope supports the deal, imagine that? Can't wait to see the GOP deal with his visit, he is going to give six of his speeches in Spanish and there won't be a one to push for English, or American as Sarah calls it,

Or Austrian as Obama calls it? Since you love the Pope, I assume you now embrace all of his positions, right?

 

[TarHeelEer]

The Pope supports the deal, imagine that? Can't wait to see the GOP deal with his visit, he is going to give six of his speeches in Spanish and there won't be a one to push for English, or American as Sarah calls it,

I plan on ignoring it. He's nothing but a mere man, not a US citizen, not a leader of a small country or anything, and doesn't speak for me. Doesn't mean a thing.

 

[Keyser76]

I plan on ignoring it. He's nothing but a mere man, not a US citizen, not a leader of a small country or anything, and doesn't speak for me. Doesn't mean a thing.

Right on! Cause your brand of Christianity "Trumps" all I bet! Wonder if Jeb and Marco feel the same way?

 

[Keyser76]

Or Austrian as Obama calls it? Since you love the Pope, I assume you now embrace all of his positions, right?

Lol, I'm not Catholic so no, I don't love the pope, just the Dichotomy he presents for the religious Catholics on the right.

 

[Popeer]

I do think the prisoner release is a no brainer and one that should have been in the original deal.

The prisoner release is a separate issue. Why is it that we insist on making the perfect the enemy of the good? With that as a prerequisite there would have been no deal, except that Russia and the EU countries would have made their own peace with Iran, and they would still have our people in prison while they continued working on building their bomb. What would we gain by walking away?

 

[mneilmont]

The Pope supports the deal, imagine that? Can't wait to see the GOP deal with his visit, he is going to give six of his speeches in Spanish and there won't be a one to push for English, or American as Sarah calls it,

The pope is not a registered voter in my country. Therefore, he has no voice in our political debates. Further, those who are entitled to vote have a vast majority who do not buy this deal.

 

[mneilmont]

The prisoner release is a separate issue. Why is it that we insist on making the perfect the enemy of the good? With that as a prerequisite there would have been no deal, except that Russia and the EU countries would have made their own peace with Iran, and they would still have our people in prison while they continued working on building their bomb. What would we gain by walking away?

You obviously have more faith in the word of Iranian leadership than do I. Their actions previously would suggest they are not people of their word. The only words they offer that I respect is their feelings toward the US and our friend Israel. In that case, they have proven their disdain for each of us.

Do you assume they will stop progressing forward on their Nuke program, And do you question their association with Russia?

 

[Airport]

The Pope supports the deal, imagine that? Can't wait to see the GOP deal with his visit, he is going to give six of his speeches in Spanish and there won't be a one to push for English, or American as Sarah calls it,

I wonder how feels about all the Nazi's that the catholic church help get out of Germany and into South America, which is where he hails from? If he stuck to religious themes, he would be more respected, since he is not running for elective office.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

The prisoner release is a separate issue. Why is it that we insist on making the perfect the enemy of the good? With that as a prerequisite there would have been no deal, except that Russia and the EU countries would have made their own peace with Iran, and they would still have our people in prison while they continued working on building their bomb. What would we gain by walking away?

The prisoner release is only a separate issue because we allowed it to be. Same with their state sponsoring of terrorism. To allow these things to be sidelined was a huge mistake in my opinion. I could almost live with the terrorism thing but not getting the prisoner release in there was bad. The U.S. gains nothing from this deal.

 

[moe]

I wonder how feels about all the Nazi's that the catholic church help get out of Germany and into South America, which is where he hails from? If he stuck to religious themes, he would be more respected, since he is not running for elective office.

Our hands are dirty in this regard as well.

 

[mneilmont]

The prisoner release is only a separate issue because we allowed it to be. Same with their state sponsoring of terrorism. To allow these things to be sidelined was a huge mistake in my opinion. I could almost live with the terrorism thing but not getting the prisoner release in there was bad. The U.S. gains nothing from this deal.

Dog, I believe Iran leadership made Obama a deal he couldn't refuse. He will oobviously accept it at any cost. He may need a nuclear option to switch back to the side of the US.

 

[Keyser76]

The pope is not a registered voter in my country. Therefore, he has no voice in our political debates. Further, those who are entitled to vote have a vast majority who do not buy this deal.

No registered Catholics in your county? He is sort of a big deal to the devout Catholics out there.

 

[mneilmont]

Our hands are dirty in this regard as well.

Yes, why not blame America first?

 

[Keyser76]

I wonder how feels about all the Nazi's that the catholic church help get out of Germany and into South America, which is where he hails from? If he stuck to religious themes, he would be more respected, since he is not running for elective office.

Like I said, I can't wait to watch! The Pope has zero influence over me, I'm not Catholic.

 

[mneilmont]

No registered Catholics in your county? He is sort of a big deal to the devout Catholics out there.

Are all Catholics the Pope? You want to change the object of the discussion away from the Pope? What do you have in mind that you would like to discuss, and I will let you know if it is something of interest to me?

 

[moe]

Yes, why not blame America first?

Airport was pointing fingers at the Catholics, just pointing out that we accepted Nazi scientists into the U.S. so we live in a glass house in that regard.

 

[mneilmont]

Airport was pointing fingers at the Catholics, just pointing out that we accepted Nazi scientists into the U.S. so we live in a glass house in that regard.

Without being a little dramatic?

 

[moe]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

Without being a little dramatic?

I've got zero idea what you're talking about and don't care much either.

 

[Airport]

Airport was pointing fingers at the Catholics, just pointing out that we accepted Nazi scientists into the U.S. so we live in a glass house in that regard.

Big difference in getting their scientist into our defense dept and getting Eichmann, Mengele and all the rest of the butchers to South America. If you can't see that, you are an idiot.

 

[moe]

Big difference in getting their scientist into our defense dept and getting Eichmann, Mengele and all the rest of the butchers to South America. If you can't see that, you are an idiot.

Oh sure, feel free to make your distinctions. Of course there's a difference and the V-2 rockets burst open over London like pinatas and candy fell out. Mr. Braun then provided serious help to our space program so it's a mixed bag. I revert to my inital comment on the subject.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket
Beginning in September 1944, over 3,000 V-2s were launched by the German Wehrmacht against Allied targets during the war, firstly London and later Antwerp and Liège. According to a 2011 BBC documentary, the attacks resulted in the deaths of an estimated 9,000 civilians and military personnel, while 12,000 forced laborers and concentration camp prisoners were killed producing the weapons.[5]

 

[WhiteTailEER]

You obviously have more faith in the word of Iranian leadership than do I. Their actions previously would suggest they are not people of their word. The only words they offer that I respect is their feelings toward the US and our friend Israel. In that case, they have proven their disdain for each of us.

Do you assume they will stop progressing forward on their Nuke program, And do you question their association with Russia?

I find these kinds of comments interesting. When we are talking about our own country and our own politicians we say they are a untrustworthy, etc. But then when another country is involved, our leadership is righteous and its the other country that can't be trusted.

I am not saying that Iran is trustworthy ... but the deal isn't based on trust, it's based on confirmation.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Oh sure, feel free to make your distinctions. Of course there's a difference and the V-2 rockets burst open over London like pinatas and candy fell out. Mr. Braun then provided serious help to our space program so it's a mixed bag. I revert to my inital comment on the subject.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket
Beginning in September 1944, over 3,000 V-2s were launched by the German Wehrmacht against Allied targets during the war, firstly London and later Antwerp and Liège. According to a 2011 BBC documentary, the attacks resulted in the deaths of an estimated 9,000 civilians and military personnel, while 12,000 forced laborers and concentration camp prisoners were killed producing the weapons.[5]

OK, Werner VonBraun is the same as Adolph Eichman and Joseph Megele in your mind. Gotcha. Man, you and Keyser are on a roll today with your analogies.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I find these kinds of comments interesting. When we are talking about our own country and our own politicians we say they are a untrustworthy, etc. But then when another country is involved, our leadership is righteous and its the other country that can't be trusted.

I am not saying that Iran is trustworthy ... but the deal isn't based on trust, it's based on confirmation.

It's not based on confirmation. It is based on trust. The whole baseline on their weapons program is based on a report from the IAEA which will get its information from a 1 day round table discussion from Iran self reporting. That is the very definition of a deal based on trust. Also, the report from the IAEA isn't due out until sometime in Dec and the vote is happening now.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

It's not based on confirmation. It is based on trust. The whole baseline on their weapons program is based on a report from the IAEA which will get its information from a 1 day round table discussion from Iran self reporting. That is the very definition of a deal based on trust. Also, the report from the IAEA isn't due out until sometime in Dec and the vote is happening now.

Yes, I understand that part. But the rest of the deal is based on regular inspections and Iran meeting the conditions before the sanctions are lifted, and the sanctions can be put back in place at any point also. It isn't as if we are signing the deal and then just walking away and trusting them to do everything they said they'd do.

 

[moe]

OK, Werner VonBraun is the same as Adolph Eichman and Joseph Megele in your mind. Gotcha. Man, you and Keyser are on a roll today with your analogies.

You don't read well but that's ok, for example the part where I said "Of course there's a difference...". I just choose to defend no Nazis. I'll just leave it to you all to defend the "best" ones. Enjoy!!

 

[WVPATX]

The IAEA verification is a joke. They have at least 24 days notice and likely more if they balk at the visit. The Parchin site is self inspected by Iran. Once sanctions are lifted, there will be NO snapback. Other countries will simply not go along. They and their companies will have too much invested. If you believe Russia or China will agree to reimpose sanctions, you're smoking some pretty good ****.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

You don't read well but that's ok, for example the part where I said "Of course there's a difference...". I just choose to defend no Nazis. I'll just leave it to you all to defend the "best" ones. Enjoy!!

Is your car Japanese?

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Yes, I understand that part. But the rest of the deal is based on regular inspections and Iran meeting the conditions before the sanctions are lifted, and the sanctions can be put back in place at any point also. It isn't as if we are signing the deal and then just walking away and trusting them to do everything they said they'd do.

I have zero faith in France, China, Germany, or Russia to reinstate the sanctions. They are about to be heavily involved financially with Iran.

You should take WVPATX off of ignore for the time being. Not sure if you miss some of the threads he starts completely or not but he hasn't been outrageous lately.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

You should take WVPATX off of ignore for the time being. Not sure if you miss some of the threads he starts completely or not but he hasn't been outrageous lately.

I do miss a lot of the threads he starts, but when you go out to the Forums view you see the person and thread topic that was last posted and I'll sometimes click on the thread to see what everybody else is saying. Most of the times I can tell just by the title that it's something he started.

Once in the OffTopic board, his threads don't even show up in the list of topics though.

 

[TarHeelEer]

Right on! Cause your brand of Christianity "Trumps" all I bet! Wonder if Jeb and Marco feel the same way?

No registered Catholics in your county? He is sort of a big deal to the devout Catholics out there.

So Catholicism is supposed to trump all other Christian denominations?

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

So Catholicism is supposed to trump all other Christian denominations?

Well technically yes. I mean it is the originating basis of all of these off shoot "Bob's church of the new day and glory to his name by the river" faiths. So I guess in reality it is the purest form of Christianity. The rest are just offshoots and heretics to the true Christian faith of Catholicism.

 

[Airport]

You don't read well but that's ok, for example the part where I said "Of course there's a difference...". I just choose to defend no Nazis. I'll just leave it to you all to defend the "best" ones. Enjoy!!

Do you find distinction between the common German soldier and Eichmann,Mengele? If you cannot see a difference, sad. How do you feel about us dropping the two atomic bombs on Japan?

 

[mneilmont]

I find these kinds of comments interesting. When we are talking about our own country and our own politicians we say they are a untrustworthy, etc. But then when another country is involved, our leadership is righteous and its the other country that can't be trusted.

I am not saying that Iran is trustworthy ... but the deal isn't based on trust, it's based on confirmation.

First, are you making serious and honest statements or just BS for a rise?
Care to elaborate on trust v confirmation? I thought there were two countries involved in the difference. Other countries give Carte Blanche. What confirmation does the US have? Original need for US "any place, any time". Is there a side deal with Iran and IAE? What does US know about this? Is confirmation called for? Is there or not a military base that is off limits to everyone where Iran will inspect and report? Does that not require a hell of a lot of trust from US going forward?