The NObama admin, the Clintons, and Donald Trump Jr.,

Keyser76

Freshman
Apr 7, 2010
11,912
58
0
Well I'm confused, because to hear it from the DNC, there was widespread voter fraud (those evil Russians),and now you're telling me that there wasn't voter fraud and this whole Russian thing is about nothing? So I'm a bit confused!

And again, ask a Sanders support if the system isn't rigged.
Keep your head in the sand, I'll tell you when the Trumps are gone.
 

EERs 3:16

Redshirt
Oct 17, 2001
73,677
24
0
If it was possible to discuss issues as Americans again, and not as members of one political team or the other, understanding other perspectives would be easier, imo. Obama had a desire to change a force-first policy that we witnessed under Bush into a diplomatic policy that sought to establish the US as a global member of a team, rather than the global leader. I personally like this approach, as the other approach hasn't had the success we seem to think it has ($700b+ defense budget, and we still need more to feel safe). Not agreeing with this approach isn't wrong, it isn't unAmerican, imo, it's just a different approach. We will see if the difference takes effect once again (it hasn't in the past btw).

Radical Islamic terrorism was an attempt by Obama to eliminate the religious connotation of the term in order to help prevent discrimination and hatred on the basis of religious background in the US. No one calls the KKK radical Christians do they? It lessens the religious ideology and insults the many that practice the religion without hate. It's not just PC ridiculousness (which I agree has gotten out of control in many instances). But there again, to me the more concerning thing is that so many RAGE against PC. Why do we not want to understand what offends others and prevent ourselves from doing so? Why is being able to offend MORE important for so many? Again, I'm not calling it wrong, I just do not understand the passionate desire to shout down a desire to end offensive and insensitive talk. Is it just Johnny badasses believing that sensitivity is only for women preschool teachers?

Now immigration is an issue that needs addressed. For many reasons, imo. I'm sure speaking about it, you are well informed about the life of an illegal immigrant. You speak of wage growth being stagnant due to illegal immigration, and that very well might be the case. I however, believe that the jobs illegal immigrants do, will not be done by Americans. I believe most of these jobs will either have to pay substantially more (hospitality and construction) and those costs will be deferred to the American family (not the owners of hotels and real estate), or the jobs will be done in other nations (farming and ranching) because Americans will not pay the higher prices for food and dairy, when cheaper options are sitting beside them at the market. Now, if there was a way to convince the American consumer to spend more to purchase a product because it supports American workers, then I'd be on board.....but we've seen in the past, this doesn't work. In addition, to me having seen the life of illegal immigrants up close, I want as many opportunities for them as possible. The American experience should be available to those that want it, imo. We should make it easier and more appealing for illegals to become legal. But this issue is murky for me, because unless a major change occurs, we won't really know the outcome.

And I'm for globalism. For one, fighting the tide is foolish. But I want other nations to develop, I want a better life for all. We are spoiled.

You've touched on something. So ask yourself why aren't Americans willing to do those low paying jobs? The answer is that illegals are willing to do it cheaper. And because they're willing to do it cheaper, they're holding down wage growth. Because they're holding down wage growth, those Americans that should be doing those jobs, aren't (because they get more on the public dole) and so we need more illegals. And so the spiral continues.

And if another nation wants to grow, great, find a way to do it, but don't do it at my expense. After all we need good paying jobs to support the illegals that are flooding across the border.

It's not that most normal Americans set out to offend our fellow citizens, it's just that so many of our fellow citizens are offended over complete nonsense. There used to be a live and let live attitude in this country (and it's one that a melting pot needs) and that seems to have gone away. We now live in a culture where being offended is the highest status symbol someone can obtain and there's just something wrong with that.

There's nothing wrong with being a member of a team or expecting other countries to step up (like Trump is doing with NATO), however, there is something wrong with not getting results...and that's where the previous administration failed.
 

Boomboom521

Redshirt
Mar 14, 2014
20,115
6
0
Well I'm confused, because to hear it from the DNC, there was widespread voter fraud (those evil Russians),and now you're telling me that there wasn't voter fraud and this whole Russian thing is about nothing? So I'm a bit confused!

And again, ask a Sanders support if the system isn't rigged.
Obviously being confused is a familiar state for you, so I'm not too concerned. But I will say: the DNC claims are of influence (much like that...no, identical to the claims made by the IC which has initiated two investigations by GOP lawmakers) NOT of voter fraud (the actual changing of votes).
 

MountaineerWV

Sophomore
Sep 18, 2007
26,324
191
0
Well I'm confused, because to hear it from the DNC, there was widespread voter fraud (those evil Russians),and now you're telling me that there wasn't voter fraud and this whole Russian thing is about nothing? So I'm a bit confused!

And again, ask a Sanders support if the system isn't rigged.

Ok, let me slow it down a bit for you......

1) Trump says "election is rigged" in October

2) Trump ends up winning election (guess it wasn't rigged.....or was it?)

3) Trump continues claims that millions of illegal votes were cast (no proof, but the Right continue this crusade)


The Right claims that the Left is conducting a "witch hunt" in this Russian probe......yet they fail to realize that the same thing is going on from Trump about this "widespread voter fraud".
 

moe

Sophomore
May 29, 2001
32,565
152
63
because to hear it from the DNC, there was widespread voter fraud (those evil Russians),
You confuse election meddling (Trump & Russians) with (imagined) voter fraud (4M illegal voters for Hillary?!), not the same.
 

Boomboom521

Redshirt
Mar 14, 2014
20,115
6
0
You've touched on something. So ask yourself why aren't Americans willing to do those low paying jobs? The answer is that illegals are willing to do it cheaper. And because they're willing to do it cheaper, they're holding down wage growth. Because they're holding down wage growth, those Americans that should be doing those jobs, aren't (because they get more on the public dole) and so we need more illegals. And so the spiral continues.

And if another nation wants to grow, great, find a way to do it, but don't do it at my expense. After all we need good paying jobs to support the illegals that are flooding across the border.

It's not that most normal Americans set out to offend our fellow citizens, it's just that so many of our fellow citizens are offended over complete nonsense. There used to be a live and let live attitude in this country (and it's one that a melting pot needs) and that seems to have gone away. We now live in a culture where being offended is the highest status symbol someone can obtain and there's just something wrong with that.

There's nothing wrong with being a member of a team or expecting other countries to step up (like Trump is doing with NATO), however, there is something wrong with not getting results...and that's where the previous administration failed.
Some Americans will do jobs in the cane fields, but not as many in the groves. But as I said, we will have to see in the long run. If I have to pay $5 for an avacado, I'm going to be pissed.

Live and let live is easier when you are white, male, and Christian in this nation.....funny how everyone seems to think they know what it feels like to hear certain things. For me, I get offended at WV jokes, and find myself railing about how much worse Kentucky is than us. I'm not raging at them, but I'd love for it to be less of a common thing to people outside our state. Being a person who appreciates other perspectives is a good thing to want to attain. But faux offense is just as bad, imo. If people act like something offends them, when it doesn't, they are as bad as anything. To that, I agree.

That depends on what you see as results. Obama helped broker the Paris Accord, which was a positive step, imo, of nations coming together for a common goal. He also stemmed the Iran nuclear program. He failed as well, no doubt. But tough talk doesn't fix the problem either. If Trump builds alliances that fix problems and finds solutions to geopolitical issues, he should be given credit. If he just "acts" like a manly man leader, but results fail to transpire.....will you hold his approach in the same regard? What gets me is so many seem to claim Trump's aggressive approach is a success without seeing results first. Let's let that play out for a spell before we claim it's the best approach.
 

Popeer

Freshman
Sep 8, 2003
21,466
81
0
Well I'm confused, because to hear it from the DNC, there was widespread voter fraud (those evil Russians),and now you're telling me that there wasn't voter fraud and this whole Russian thing is about nothing? So I'm a bit confused!

And again, ask a Sanders support if the system isn't rigged.
Well, you're right about one thing: You're confused. Nobody in the DNC said anything about the Russians creating voter fraud. And it's not just the DNC -- Justice, the intelligence agencies, pretty much everybody with a clue knew by this time last year that the Russians were meddling. And the DNC didn't rig **** against Bernie, or maybe you don't understand how rigging works. In order to rig the primaries, they would have had to be able to replace votes for Bernie with votes for Hillary somehow.