There are a lot of people/groups that oppose the first draft of the plan to replace Obamacare
- Thread starter rog1187
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I am on the fence about it, because I just want Government out of health care totally. However there are some good things in it and you can't just throw folks out in the cold before building some shelter for them first.
I do have concerns as well as opposition to some provisions, but I'm willing to hear other concerns, and let them debate on some amendments to make it better. I'd be happiest if the ACA were just repealed, and the "replacement" allowed was just 'we the people'...the marketplace.
I trust the people, left free with free choices, to make the best decisions on their health care insurance. When competition is opened up, the free market allowed to offer competitive cost and quality options, prices and quality will respond to that demand and search to secure those dollars.
Those politicians don't trust us, and want to make sure they are controlling as much of our choices as they can possibly get away with. The problem with health care delivery services in this country is the price of delivering those services bears no resemblance at all to customer's ability to pay for them.
We need to fix that by putting patients in charge of what they will pay and what they can afford to pay. Don't hold your breath waiting on Government bureaucrats to ever express that same confidence in the very same people they are so called trying to "help".
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we shall see, but I doubt this gets rammed through in the same manner in which Obama "we have to pass it first to see what's in it" Care.
They are already ramming it through before the CBO reviews it, show me where the Democrats ever did that at any stage? The ramming it through narrative worked on ya didn't it? And after seven years they only have a ****** draft? lol, keep believing the GOP even wants healthcare reform, they keep pretending the free market insurance that is not in working form anywhere in the world will work, they were always for the status quo and just used outrageous scare tactics like death panels to confuse people whose racism could be exploited to the point they didn't even know the AC and Medicaid are Obamacare. It's pretty obvious the GOP can't govern.
I believe they have already said it would have to be "rammed through" in the same manner. Obamacare was debated for months by both parties before ultimately becoming such a partisan bill. It became a partisan bill because the GOP leadership smartly bet it would be unpopular and could use it to run against the Democrats for years. They were right.
Keyser76, how many amendments did the Democrats allow Republicans to offer on the ACA as it was being drafted? Why did they use budget reconciliation to pass it, instead of an open floor vote?
CBO hasn't said they're not being allowed to score this bill. They just don't have the final version yet to give accurate numbers on what it's going to cost. It's called the legislative process, and no one is blocking any part of it.
What are you talking about?
You do realize TrumpCare will be passed using budget reconciliation, right?
I think Obamacare or ACA, had something like 140 republican amendments in the final draft.
This doesn't make any sense coop. If the ACA was such a good bill, the Democrats would be befitting from it right now.
There wasn't one Republican vote for that turkey, so the Dems owned it and have lost their shirts over it ever since. In fact every time it's been up for a referendum since it was passed...2012, 2014, and last year, most Democrats supporting it have lost, including the top of their ticket this past Presidential election.
So if it was a 'strategy' by Republicans as you claim, why haven't the Democrats benefited from it?
After all, it was their legislation?
"According to a HELP Committee document about bipartisan aspects of the health reform bill the committee passed July 15, 2009, its final bill included "161 Republican amendments," including "several amendments from Senators Enzi , Coburn , Roberts and others make certain that nothing in the legislation will allow for rationing of care," and reflected the efforts of "six bipartisan working groups" that "met a combined 72 times" in 2009 as well as "30 bipartisan hearings on health care reform" since 2007, half of which were held in 2009 . And according to the Senate Finance Committee's September 22, 2009, document detailing the amendments to the Chairman's Mark considered, at least 13 amendments sponsored by one or more Republican senators were included in the bill."
I think one could actually argue the direct opposite of your OP.
Yes, I'm aware of that Coop, but it's only because of the way it was passed. That's the easiest way to defund it, since Democrats tied so many of its provisions to the budget process.
OK Coop, so then explain to me how many of those amendments were actually voted out of committee and allowed a vote on the floor?
You said quote:
" the GOP leadership smartly bet it would be unpopular and could use it to run against the Democrats for years. They were right"
So what did you mean by this Coop?
I honestly have no idea what your question is, but my responses are about the subject of this thread. The OP said there was little to no debate surrounding ACA, I'm simply showing him he is remembering it wrong.
OK, then you're saying something different than to what I'm saying Coop...so maybe we're just passing each other while posting. I said no Republican amendments were allowed in any floor votes on the ACA (because there weren't any) ...that's why it was passed under budget reconciliation rules.
Was there any debate in committee?
Sure.
Votes on amendments out of committee onto the floor for the full membership to consider?
Absolutely not.
OK. So why didn't the Democrats understand the same thing about their own legislation Coop?
Because people in power are generally stupid and/or blind? They needed to show something to their base. Hmmm...that sounds familiar.
Alright Coop. If you think the Dems only concern with the ACA was pleasing their kook fringe base then they both deserve each other.
I learned a little more last night. This is about the limit of what they can do with budget reconciliation.
More to come.