This Game was a Building Block

[Knight Shift]

You could be right. But that was never the debate! It wasn’t about a 4th string option. You don’t bring someone in to be a 4th string option. That is a waste of time and resources. You bring in someone to compete. It was about not bringing bodies into that room to create additional competition. If that additional competition turned out to be 4th string, great. It means we have the right people in that room. But not going after additional talent because you may hurt someone’s feelings will have a detrimental effect on the program. Not just at qb but across the board.

I'm not being argumentative here, just a couple of observations.
@Ray6232010 is correct, and I am not implying that you think Gavin should be replaced. Gavin seems to be progressing and like any QB, especially a young QB, he will make mistakes. As may have been noted elsewhere, the problem may also be in the playcalling and limits put on Gavin regarding his options. Maybe not. We do not know.

I generally agree RU could have, should have been actively seeking a QB that could potentially compete as the starter. With that said, in hindsight, how have the B1G QB transfers fared? Maybe just cherry picking random stats but:

Hudson Card (4th year) - 5 INTs
Luke Altmyer (4th year)- 8 INTS
Tanner Mordecai (16th year!!)- 3 INTs, was not really impressed with his accuracy
Ben Bryant (16th year!)- 3 INT, not exactly lighting it up, sure it's NW
Cade McNamara (4th year) - meh, feel bad for him that he got hurt.
Jeff Sims (4th year)- benched

Think that transfer QBs can be less than a crap shoot, and at least this year proves it out. There is a reason the QB is transferring, except in a case like Penix, who followed his OC to UW. And what did Rutgers ever get from a transfer QB?
Noah, Langan, Bolin, Carter, Rettig, Zach Allen, Philip Nelson- maybe RU is following the saying “Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.”

 

[kupuna133]

I'm not being argumentative here, just a couple of observations.
@Ray6232010 is correct, and I am not implying that you think Gavin should be replaced. Gavin seems to be progressing and like any QB, especially a young QB, he will make mistakes. As may have been noted elsewhere, the problem may also be in the playcalling and limits put on Gavin regarding his options. Maybe not. We do not know.

I generally agree RU could have, should have been actively seeking a QB that could potentially compete as the starter. With that said, in hindsight, how have the B1G QB transfers fared? Maybe just cherry picking random stats but:

Hudson Card (4th year) - 5 INTs
Luke Altmyer (4th year)- 8 INTS
Tanner Mordecai (16th year!!)- 3 INTs, was not really impressed with his accuracy
Ben Bryant (16th year!)- 3 INT, not exactly lighting it up, sure it's NW
Cade McNamara (4th year) - meh, feel bad for him that he got hurt.
Jeff Sims (4th year)- benched

Think that transfer QBs can be less than a crap shoot, and at least this year proves it out. There is a reason the QB is transferring, except in a case like Penix, who followed his OC to UW. And what did Rutgers ever get from a transfer QB?
Noah, Langan, Bolin, Carter, Rettig, Zach Allen, Philip Nelson- maybe RU is following the saying “Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.”

Not argumentative at all. I love debate. And hearing other people’s opinion. You will very rarely hear me tell someone they are”wrong”. Especially when it is opinion based.

I think Gavin is doing a good job. Not a great job. I had high hopes that the game would have slowed down for him beyond where he is now. You can tell the game is still living too fast for him. All I am saying is there should have been an expansion in that room. No matter where it came from. 3 people in that room is 2-3 too little.

 

[Knight Shift]

Not argumentative at all. I love debate. And hearing other people’s opinion. You will very rarely hear me tell someone they are”wrong”. Especially when it is opinion based.

I think Gavin is doing a good job. Not a great job. I had high hopes that the game would have slowed down for him beyond where he is now. You can tell the game is still living too fast for him. All I am saying is there should have been an expansion in that room. No matter where it came from. 3 people in that room is 2-3 too little.

So, I just watched the every pass by Gavin video, and I took off my Scarlet glasses and gave it an objective view (ha, ha). Here's my take on the passes:
35 attempts, 16 completions. Looks bad on paper, doesn't it?
I gave him a positive mark for each pass that was caught or catchable: 21 positives
Negatives (poorly thrown, INT, etc): 11
Neutrals/hard to tell: 4
Let's assume all of those positives translated to completions (unrealistic)- that puts him at 60% completion
Or the negatives: 11/35 or 31.5 %

Seems (and with no basis of comparison to JJ McCarthy or someone like that- too many non-catchable balls thrown. But as we have all discussed, he has definitely progressed. I'm not a football coach, but I can operate a grill with the best of him. Assuming we had a capable transfer, I see no reason to make a change. What I would like to see is if the offense is sputtering, putting Simon or Sheppard in to see if the change spurs the offense.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

Your goal? Lol good grief.

Gavin is 44/93 on passes this season against every team not named Wagner, good for a 47.3% completion percentage which would rank DEAD LAST in CFB…. That’s not ‘acceptable’ Al

We’re 4-2, not 2-4, and he is a big reason why. If he doesn’t throw two pick 6’s in the last two games, we would be talking about what a great job he’s doing. He played two games against very difficult defenses in Michigan and Wisconsin. That’s why his stats are skewed. His overall stats will be fine after we play the next two games.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

So, I just watched the every pass by Gavin video, and I took off my Scarlet glasses and gave it an objective view (ha, ha). Here's my take on the passes:
35 attempts, 16 completions. Looks bad on paper, doesn't it?
I gave him a positive mark for each pass that was caught or catchable: 21 positives
Negatives (poorly thrown, INT, etc): 11
Neutrals/hard to tell: 4
Let's assume all of those positives translated to completions (unrealistic)- that puts him at 60% completion
Or the negatives: 11/35 or 31.5 %

Seems (and with no basis of comparison to JJ McCarthy or someone like that- too many non-catchable balls thrown. But as we have all discussed, he has definitely progressed. I'm not a football coach, but I can operate a grill with the best of him. Assuming we had a capable transfer, I see no reason to make a change. What I would like to see is if the offense is sputtering, putting Simon or Sheppard in to see if the change spurs the offense.

Yes - Gavin has definitely progressed from where he was last year. And Evan isn’t bad at all for a back up. I just don’t see what the big upside would be to a crowded QB room unless one of the guys brought in was a stud which would’ve been unlikely. Signing a transfer also might have sent Evan packing (like Cole). Would the transfer be a materially better back up plan than Evan let alone compete to start? Its possible but not that likely in my my opinion. It’s not like we didn’t take an up and coming frosh QB in the class. Despite not getting QB reps, having Johnny provides a distant insurance plan that most teams don’t have. We may have been terrible in 2019, but our roster still has a last resort 4th stringer on it with 8 starts at QB in addition to some wildcat reps. if we didn’t want to throw a frosh out there to the wolves and got hit with injuries, Johnny could go under center and be a game manager.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

Not argumentative at all. I love debate. And hearing other people’s opinion. You will very rarely hear me tell someone they are”wrong”. Especially when it is opinion based.

I think Gavin is doing a good job. Not a great job. I had high hopes that the game would have slowed down for him beyond where he is now. You can tell the game is still living too fast for him. All I am saying is there should have been an expansion in that room. No matter where it came from. 3 people in that room is 2-3 too little.

I hear what you’re saying, but the coaches made a decision that the ships were better allocated elsewhere, likely because they felt they couldn’t land a transfer of adequate quality.

 

[kupuna133]

So, I just watched the every pass by Gavin video, and I took off my Scarlet glasses and gave it an objective view (ha, ha). Here's my take on the passes:
35 attempts, 16 completions. Looks bad on paper, doesn't it?
I gave him a positive mark for each pass that was caught or catchable: 21 positives
Negatives (poorly thrown, INT, etc): 11
Neutrals/hard to tell: 4
Let's assume all of those positives translated to completions (unrealistic)- that puts him at 60% completion
Or the negatives: 11/35 or 31.5 %

Seems (and with no basis of comparison to JJ McCarthy or someone like that- too many non-catchable balls thrown. But as we have all discussed, he has definitely progressed. I'm not a football coach, but I can operate a grill with the best of him. Assuming we had a capable transfer, I see no reason to make a change. What I would like to see is if the offense is sputtering, putting Simon or Sheppard in to see if the change spurs the offense.

Those stats are somewhat misleading. Not going to take completions away from him. But there are many times he threw or attempted to throw to the more difficult more heavily covered option. Part of the game slowing down for him would allow for him to see the entire field versus “just” the primary target. There are multiple times in every game this year that the second level option is more open than the primary target. Many times it’s an easier throw as well.

 

[kupuna133]

Yes - Gavin has definitely progressed from where he was last year. And Evan isn’t bad at all for a back up. I just don’t see what the big upside would be to a crowded QB room unless one of the guys brought in was a stud which would’ve been unlikely. Signing a transfer also might have sent Evan packing (like Cole). Would the transfer be a materially better back up plan than Evan let alone compete to start? Its possible but not that likely in my my opinion. It’s not like we didn’t take an up and coming frosh QB in the class. Despite not getting QB reps, having Johnny provides a distant insurance plan that most teams don’t have. We may have been terrible in 2019, but our roster still has a last resort 4th stringer on it with 8 starts at QB in addition to some wildcat reps. if we didn’t want to throw a frosh out there to the wolves and got hit with injuries, Johnny could go under center and be a game manager.

It’s not about having a crowded room it’s about having a sufficiently supplied room. You want at least 1 qb in every recruiting cycle. Technically we have 4 cycles that are not represented with a scholarship qb.

 

[RUforlife]

We’re 4-2, not 2-4, and he is a big reason why. If he doesn’t throw two pick 6’s in the last two games, we would be talking about what a great job he’s doing. He played two games against very difficult defenses in Michigan and Wisconsin. That’s why his stats are skewed. His overall stats will be fine after we play the next two games.

Wagner was a scrimmage.

 

[Plum Street]

If it was a true building block we will win Saturday.

 

[brgRC90]

Wagner was a scrimmage.

Yet apparently some of our posters are thrilled by the win over Wagner and think Schiano deserves a raise because of it.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

It’s not about having a crowded room it’s about having a sufficiently supplied room. You want at least 1 qb in every recruiting cycle. Technically we have 4 cycles that are not represented with a scholarship qb.

I guess I don’t pay that much attention to deep bench QBs on other teams. How many teams (outside of the OSU types) carry more than 4 non walk on QBs on them? Langhan is a QB who was converted to tight end. He has to count as I guarantee he’s easily better than the 4th option on at least half of FBS teams - probably more.

 

[kupuna133]

I guess I don’t pay that much attention to deep bench QBs on other teams. How many teams (outside of the OSU types) carry more than 4 non walk on QBs on them? Langhan is a QB who was converted to tight end. He has to count as I guarantee he’s easily better than the 4th option on at least half of FBS teams - probably more.

Why do you keep bringing up Langan? He is not a qb. Was converted to te at BC. He is only a wildcat option. Wasn’t brought in to be a true qb option when he transferred. Given an opportunity but everyone knew that ship sailed. And do you think he sits in on qb meetings? A te spends more time with the OL than they do the skill players.

And to answer your question pretty much every program recruits 1 qb many times 2 in a 5 year cycles to have 5 min scholarship qb’s in the room.

 

[yessir321]

We’re 4-2, not 2-4, and he is a big reason why. If he doesn’t throw two pick 6’s in the last two games, we would be talking about what a great job he’s doing. He played two games against very difficult defenses in Michigan and Wisconsin. That’s why his stats are skewed. His overall stats will be fine after we play the next two games.

Al,

He had a 47.6% completion % against TEMPLE and 43% against VT.... Try again.

You also just tried to twist the narrative once again as you famously do, initially you spoke about Gavin's completion percentage PRIOR to Wisconsin (which still ranked 110th out of 114 in CFB) and right there you blamed it on a tough Wisconsin defense. If you're gonna be a Spin Doctor at least finish your statements with "That's what I said now!" lol

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

Wagner was a scrimmage.

It counts towards bowl eligibility just the same

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

If it was a true building block we will win Saturday.

We should win Saturday

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

On this "must-win" stuff for next two teams.

Yes. the goal is a bowl game season.. a winning season. But these are all Big Ten teams at this point. Don't you think they all.. like Wisconsin, and every team save Wagner and maybe Temple before them, had the Rutgers game in the "must-win" column?

These are Big Ten teams and they have as much talent as we have.. perhaps more. Things happen. If we have an actual 75% chance to win each of the next two games that means we have only a 56% chance to win them both.

What happens if we lose one of them and we are staring at a likely 5-win season? What is the "or else" part of the "must win" scenario?

We should all want what's best for the team but that is not leading a rebellion because we lost on the road to Wisconsin. No one wants the wins more than the players and coaches. Give them some room to breathe. Give yourselves room to breathe.

You are still here after Flood and Ash. You will be here if we lose one or even if we lose both (6.25% chance). And that's okay. It would represent the end of the world.. but you'll survive and the players and coaches (and fans) will have 4 more games.. hard hard games.. to get through.

This season is all about progress. team-building. It is already a successful season in that regard. The offense took a step back vs Wisconsin but we'll see if they fix that in the next two games. Acting like they cannot or won't improve.. that is the same crap we heard before the season started. Then the team showed it had actually gotten better. So how about we all just wait and see?

 

[Ray6232010]

Not argumentative at all. I love debate. And hearing other people’s opinion. You will very rarely hear me tell someone they are”wrong”. Especially when it is opinion based.

I think Gavin is doing a good job. Not a great job. I had high hopes that the game would have slowed down for him beyond where he is now. You can tell the game is still living too fast for him. All I am saying is there should have been an expansion in that room. No matter where it came from. 3 people in that room is 2-3 too little.

Agree to Disagree at the end of the day. We all have Love for Rutgers

 

[NickRU714]

This is like the dumb "we've turned the corner" arguments after a close loss to Michigan.

You never know if a game was a building block or turning of the corner until weeks later.

If we beat MSU and Indiana then ya it was a building block.
If we lose both then it was foreshadowing of a crashing to the rest of the season.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

This is like the dumb "we've turned the corner" arguments after a close loss to Michigan.

You never know if a game was a building block or turning of the corner until weeks later.

If we beat MSU and Indiana then ya it was a building block.
If we lose both then it was foreshadowing of a crashing to the rest of the season.

Yes, we won’t know for sure whether this game was a building block, for a few weeks. But we can reasonably expect that the same mistake won’t be repeated again. Our QBs have to learn some lessons through experience. I believe this was one of those times. The problem is, he stared down his receiver the whole time, and the DB read his eyes, and jumped the route. They will review this play over and over again during film, and the lessons will be learned.

 

[RU#1fan]

Greg absolutely will be here in ‘25 come hell or high water.

If Greg fails to make a Bowl game in ‘23 and ‘24 he will not be here in 2025.
6 years of losing seasons is enough. Any other P5 program he would be gone before then.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

If Greg fails to make a Bowl game in ‘23 and ‘24 he will not be here in 2025.
6 years of losing seasons is enough. Any other P5 program he would be gone before then.

That’s simply not true, but you are free to believe what you want.

 

[RU#1fan]

We shall see. The returning appeal of 2.0 will have well worn out if we have 5 straight losing seasons.
The impact on season ticket sales, revenue losses, crowds, etc. will dictate the next steps.

 

[Plum Street]

We shall see. The returning appeal of 2.0 will have well worn out if we have 5 straight losing seasons.
The impact on season ticket sales, revenue losses, crowds, etc. will dictate the next steps.

This is only year 4.

But I get the point.
We will see if it’s a building block or we are playing Jenga

 

[MADHAT1]

Year 4 is to prove, not just imply, program is headed in right direction.
Year 5: do it or get out.
Year 6 will be the HC of a bowl team returning to make the program even better,
or a new HC being brought in being paid the type of salary and program support that induces top coaches to go to a program

 

[Westcoast]

Who’s job is it to recruit and develop a talented roster? You can talk to GS maximizing its strength by minimizing its weakness but he has played the same way regardless of who’s on his roster. It’s def on GS

This isn't true. Go watch second half of Teel's senior season. We threw it all over the field. 49 points in first half against Louisville, for example. 35 points in first half of Pitt game. When he has the horses, he turns them loose. But if he doesn't have faith in QB, it's going to be sideline passes and short passes almost exclusively.

 

[Westcoast]

The goal is to win, not to be very good in a loss.

Of course. But to be angry after every loss in games we are expected to lose makes little sense.

 

[Colbert17!]

Wisconsin will finish the regular season at 10-2, will be ranked in December and will probably play a NYD game.
They're a very good team with a very good coach.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

Wisconsin will finish the regular season at 10-2, will be ranked in Decmber and will probably play a NYD game.
They're a very good team with a very good coach.

We still blew an opportunity though. We had a chance to win

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

This isn't true. Go watch second half of Teel's senior season. We threw it all over the field. 49 points in first half against Louisville, for example. 35 points in first half of Pitt game. When he has the horses, he turns them loose. But if he doesn't have faith in QB, it's going to be sideline passes and short passes almost exclusively.

When Wimsatt demonstrates good mechanics, he makes NFL throws. When his mechanics aren’t so good, the ball sails on him. This is why he doesn’t throw across the middle as much. On the interception, he made the twin sin of staring down his receiver and making a bad throw. DB simply jumped the route. This is why they are managing Wimsatt to minimize his bad plays.