...I see KSU signing a DE...I see Garden City having two first team AA sophs...do we not need those kinds of guys?
Just asking....not flaming...
Just asking....not flaming...
This Juco thing....
- Thread starter Spartanhusker
- Start date
I get the feeling that Riley has a plan for how he wants to build the program and JUCO guys don't fit his plan. I'm sure he wants more quality DE's but ultimately we need to build depth and develop our players over time to the point where every year we have a team led by experienced upper classmen. There's no way we are going to be competitive with Ohio state and Michigan by relying on JUCO players. It may mean some short term pain, but continuing to build the roster with high school players and build for the future. Nebraska has to be smarter to make up for what we lack in local talent in order to compete at the highest level, at least until we rebuild our brand. And I think Riley gets that.
the juco route can be a pig in a poke, but there are some gems to be found and you don't overdo it.
Exactly. I don't want to see a pile of JUCO players signed in hopes of finding the next David or Gomes, but if you can identify the right guy and get him to campus, that's great. Riley hasn't done that yet, but too early to say that he's not open to doing it.
I don't think they are anti JUCO. There was a JUCO on campus last week that ended up at Oklahoma St.
I think JUCO players need to be part of the plan at Nebraska. Anytime you have the opportunity to bring in an impact player you have to seize it.
Urban Meyer's recruits jucos. Nick Saban hit Jucos hard this year (and really every year). MR strategy appears to be to not recruit Jucos but I don't think one can state recruiting Juco's will keep Nu from being competitive with the big boys when the big boys recruit Jucos. They just have to be the right guys. Less room for error but some what easier to project a Juco vs a HS kid too. Look at tos Juco top 100, full of SEC commits, so...
PS anyone know why rivals does not have a Juco top 100 anymore? Just the other sites do
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Remember, KSU can and has to take Kansas JUCO students according to their state law. It is exceptionally easy for a JUCO player to get in to KSU and KU. We have no idea what the academic status was of those players...that said, do we want to be KSU?
When you are a program like Alabama or Ohio St, you can take a chance on a JUCO because you have a roster full of 4 or 5 star players. Their risk is mitigated. you don't build a program on JUCO players you supplement a program with JUCO players.
Kansas St built and depends on JUCO players and are a 7-9 win team. Ohio St and Alabama supplement with JUCO players and are playing in the CFP.
Sometimes I get the feeling some fans think we can be super picky about who we take. When's the last time we had a class legitimately ranked in the top 20? I not talking about a few of Bo's classes where the star player(s) who helped us attain that awesome #19 ranking went on to play another sport or never took a snap here for whatever reason. I say take whoever you can that can help you win some games and build depth, and juco's are a great resource for that if you ask me. Don't want 10 of them every year, but gimme a couple for sure. Every year.
Never said "build a program" of Jucos. But if you don't have a freaking center to play on the O-line next year, you recruit a Juco. Why wouldn't you try to fix a need with a Juco guy? Especially early enrollment guys?
And yes, Bama is full of 4 & 5 star kids but yet they still take a few Jucos every year. Know why that is? 4 & 5 bust too. Depth issues happens every where. And to say they can "take a chance more" is crazy. So Riley can't take a chance. DiCaprio Bootle wasn't taking a chance? Hell if you take a chance at a Juco kid and it doesn't happen, then your stuck 2 to 3 years? If you take a chance on a HS kid and he busts, that's half a decade your paying for it.
I think Riley leaves a lot up to the position coach. Coach D Will came in and we had a secondary Juco recruit visit pretty soon after. When we say its not Riley's thing, I think its more not some of the position coaches thing. Could have used help on the O-line the last 2 years so it appears its not Coach Cavs thing
A former end of year opponent of Nebraska's just got a commit from a 310 D-Lineman, he's a juco. Nothing wrong in taking 1 or 2 if it looks like a good fit.
Farniok
Raridon
Wilson
Brokop
Which one are you going to say no thanks to for a flyer on a JUCO center? There were 14 JUCO centers in that class and only one rated 3 star or higher - AJ McCollum a 3 star, who went to Arizona St.
Again I never said you don't recruit the JUCO ranks, but there is more to it than just taking a JUCO.
You are making my point about Alabama. They have studs already, they can take a JUCO without worrying about depth, if the JUCO doesn't work.
You are also talking about a school that is at times replacing a junior who went to the league early with a JUCO so it doesn't affect you class distribution.
Look at our positions of need. At DE, you would want the JUCO player to be able to start over the kids we have in the program now. Essentially, you would want better than even probability that he is better than King, Alex Davis or Neal and he can come in and pick up what we are doing defensively. If not, you are just taking a spot that could be filled by a younger.
Looking at last year, I'd have taken those 4 plus a Juco. There were more interior Juco O-lineman that ended up playing last year then AJ McCollum. Many interior lineman can move around to guard and center. Go look for my previous post on this topic that broke down all 247's top 100 O-lineman and how they ended up. Note Huskers took in 21 recruits so still had room for one more especially since they came in under 85 scholarships before giving out scholarships to Walk-Ons. But instead the team was left with Utter.
You stating this makes it seem like Riley doesn't take chances. Engelhaupt & Bottle were exactly that last year. And you also believe Bama doesn't have issues. Trust me, everyone has depth issues. That's why you recruit Jucos. Bama isn't recruiting Juco's for the hell of it. It's recruiting them to help with depth. Saban cries every week about the lack of depth on the O-line & LB (I believe its those positions). One spot, he said if another guy goes down, we literally have no one else to play. Granted he's a bit of a drama queen but still, everyone has injuries. Everyone has busts. Everyone can use more depth.
And Class distribution is the reason this staff should have recruited Jucos. Bama had low #'s due to guys going to the league. Huskers have low numbers due to attrition. It really doesn't matter why the numbers are low, it matters that there low.
Oh well.. Im so tired of talking about this issue. It's hopefully all done with. The young pups are growing up. I just hope to god 5 legit scholarship players start on the O-line next year. Next year is no more dam excuses for coach Cav year. Time for him to put up and hopefully I'll shut-up for ever about it.
Yes, from what I've heard it's harder for NU to recruit a juco who can get into school under Big 10 rules. So we've got to recruit against the Alabamas and Ohio States of the world to get the excellent jucos who are also good students. And from what I'm hearing, there just aren't many of those. If you go down a level and find a pretty good juco who is a good student, the problem is they may not even be good enough to play.
Back in the days of the Big 8, we could bring in great athletes/marginal students and get them into school-- where many of them did quite well.
I just hope Coach Cav's "thing" next year is quality OL play regardless of who is banged up, who his boys are, or hasn't been in the program for 3 years. That hasn't been his thing so far at Nebraska.
What about recruiting a player that currently plays for an FCS team and plays like an allstar?
I don't believe I have ever heard, or at least paid attention to, any FCS player transferring after his freshman or sophomore season to a major football school.
I know the Montana? QB transferred to Oregon, but I think that was a graduate transfer but I could be wrong.
Do P5 schools look to the big FCS programs to find players?
I recall some players transferring down to FCS when leaving a P5 school so they don't have to sit out a year, and then plan to transfer up to a P5 after that, but I don't recall hearing much about them coming back up.
Danny Woodhead or Carson Wentz could have transferred after his sophomore year (or any year) to a P5 school school right?
Should Nebraska look at FCS schools for "juco" type players?
I don't believe I have ever heard, or at least paid attention to, any FCS player transferring after his freshman or sophomore season to a major football school.
I know the Montana? QB transferred to Oregon, but I think that was a graduate transfer but I could be wrong.
Do P5 schools look to the big FCS programs to find players?
I recall some players transferring down to FCS when leaving a P5 school so they don't have to sit out a year, and then plan to transfer up to a P5 after that, but I don't recall hearing much about them coming back up.
Danny Woodhead or Carson Wentz could have transferred after his sophomore year (or any year) to a P5 school school right?
Should Nebraska look at FCS schools for "juco" type players?
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Don't know if NU should do that or not. But if they decide to, James Madison has about 19 guys in their starting lineup that might be worth a good look.
If u mean by "do we want to be KSU" u mean u would like to win a conference championship this century, then maybe yes.
No, I think he meant "we don't want to be known as the worst college football program in NCAA history" up until the 21st century.
I think it's stupid to choose not take juco's, especially when you're trying to recruit players into a new system. If we really had as many depth issues as people on here say after Bo left, we should have been taking at least 5 jucos a year.
I'd rather take a chance on a juco that has a 50% chance of contributing right away vs. having a high school recruit who has a 50% chance of ever seeing the field in 5 years.
Jucos at certain positions are more valuable. Especially jucos who play offensive and defensive line where the younger guys most likely have to sit a few years to gain the size and strength to play anyway. Having a juco offensive lineman who can come in and contribute right away might be a lot more valuable than a high school recruit who takes up roster space for 3 years before he can contribute.
I'd rather take a chance on a juco that has a 50% chance of contributing right away vs. having a high school recruit who has a 50% chance of ever seeing the field in 5 years.
Jucos at certain positions are more valuable. Especially jucos who play offensive and defensive line where the younger guys most likely have to sit a few years to gain the size and strength to play anyway. Having a juco offensive lineman who can come in and contribute right away might be a lot more valuable than a high school recruit who takes up roster space for 3 years before he can contribute.
Another thing, 2 of our top 3 players of the last 5 years were jucos. We could potentially be passing up a lot of talent in the juco ranks if we choose to ignore it.
Also, it was absolutely a mistake to not go after a juco or transfer qb in the Pelini-Riley hybrid class. Maybe he wouldn't have started over TA, but he could have been a more serviceable backup than Fyfe and provided depth at the most important position, a position where we had absolutely no depth.
Also, it was absolutely a mistake to not go after a juco or transfer qb in the Pelini-Riley hybrid class. Maybe he wouldn't have started over TA, but he could have been a more serviceable backup than Fyfe and provided depth at the most important position, a position where we had absolutely no depth.
I agree, but at the time, I'm not sure the new coaching staff had much of an idea that Darlington, Bush, and Stanton wouldn't be able to succeed as QB in Riley's offensive plan until that first spring practice session.
Not saying they did, but I could imagine they crapped themselves when seeing the lack of passing game knowledge/skills that they were used to (or thought they would have here) in those first few spring pracrices and thought the same thing about wishing they would have went after a JUCO or tranfer that was a prostyle passing QB that was more suited for their offense.
They had 5 QBs for 2+ years when these coaches showed up. To them that was probably a lot of QBs on the roster and they weren't sure about adding a 6th.
Mid season he acted like he was hearing the complaints about lack of rotation and possibly reps in practice. Understand the injuries from there; but hope he isn't suffering from hardening of the attitudes. Look at the great posters that are upset, specifically what could have been in center play.
I believe we have a wave of improvement coming; but imo we should attack with the initial hit in pass blocking also; why let a guy go straight into his practice moves? Waiting also forfeits an advantage an o-lineman can have on knowing snap count, what the play is, and quick muscle twitch. GBR
Its been covered on their other choices and who they will visit; but yes juices have been special for us at times. To your point, I believe we test and measure them in as many ways allowed on their visit - so some don't pass muster in person; no offer.
Not disputing whether we should have pursued more vigorously jucos, but where did you get your stats? 50% of recruits never seeing the field in 5 years?
Take the best available players and put them on the field. Winning now needs to be the focus. The longer we wait, the longer we fade into obscurity for the next season/class.
[QUOTE="spartanhusker,
Just asking....not flaming...[/QUOTE]
From what I heard you ARE MOST DEFINITELY FLAMING.
Just asking....not flaming...[/QUOTE]
From what I heard you ARE MOST DEFINITELY FLAMING.
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I made it up, but it's common knowledge that about half a recruiting class won't pan out and will end up contributing on the field very little, or nothing at all.
I don't know the stats, and I don't know what percentage of juco's pan out either. I assume it would be similar, and that would mean that jucos offer an efficient use of scholarship space since they don't have to sit as long. It would be interesting to know if there's an analysis on that.
I guess I don't pay close enough attention... I honestly didn't know roughly half a recruiting class doesn't see the field over their 4-5 years here... that seems high to me but I have nothing that says otherwise, so I'll take your word for it.
40% is a number I have seen multiple times, as never seeing the field or being significant contributors. That number may have been for 4 and 5* players; which make the 50% figure likely for all. In any case, its a high number. ...Think of how many SEC teams were over-signing a large number of players each cycle; as an example. Say 100-112 schoolies every 4 years - add in redshirts and one can see how that 40% figure at least is approachable ( maybe 50% depending on definition of never playing or making the top two strings ; i e rotation ).