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AreYouNUTS

Heisman
Aug 1, 2001
120,503
53,322
113
You think Michigan was cheating, and they approached Michigan State with information on OSU that would not only make Michigan State wonder how Michigan got that information, but make Michigan State realize that Michigan was almost certainly compiling similar information on MSU and giving it to their opponents?

How does that make sense? Michigan State hates Michigan a lot more than they hate Ohio State.
I’m basing it on the fact that this whole thing is ******* stupid and completely insane. So, yeah, I wouldn’t put it past them at this point lol!!!

We’re talking about people who made PUBLIC Venmo payments! AND wore Michigan gear while filming lolol!!!
 
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ashokan

Heisman
May 3, 2011
25,325
19,686
0
OK say KC knows that Miami's Tyreek Hill is going long. Good luck.

Football isn't baseball in that offenses give a dozen signs of what they are going to do depending on down, field position, personnel and past plays. Good defenders know what to read and aren't just chasing the ball.

Tempest/teapot thing
 

Scarlet16e2

All-Conference
Nov 22, 2005
8,982
4,047
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OK say KC knows that Miami's Tyreek Hill is going long. Good luck.

Football isn't baseball in that offenses give a dozen signs of what they are going to do depending on down, field position, personnel and past plays. Good defenders know what to read and aren't just chasing the ball.

Tempest/teapot thing
For several weeks posters on this board have been voicing concerns that Wimsatt is telegraphing pass plays before the snap by "leaning".
If Michigan knew the whole RU play call before the snap I would think that's a MUCH bigger concern.

Yes RU and others should be regularly changing their signals to mitigate the issue, but UM should not be brazenly breaking the rules as well. And they wouldnt be doing it if it didnt work.
 

AreYouNUTS

Heisman
Aug 1, 2001
120,503
53,322
113
OK say KC knows that Miami's Tyreek Hill is going long. Good luck.

Football isn't baseball in that offenses give a dozen signs of what they are going to do depending on down, field position, personnel and past plays. Good defenders know what to read and aren't just chasing the ball.

Tempest/teapot thing

For several weeks posters on this board have been voicing concerns that Wimsatt is telegraphing pass plays before the snap by "leaning".
If Michigan knew the whole RU play call before the snap I would think that's a MUCH bigger concern.

Yes RU and others should be regularly changing their signals to mitigate the issue, but UM should not be brazenly breaking the rules as well. And they wouldnt be doing it if it didnt work.
Thank you. Not sure how some don't get it lol!
 
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ashokan

Heisman
May 3, 2011
25,325
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For several weeks posters on this board have been voicing concerns that Wimsatt is telegraphing pass plays before the snap by "leaning".
If Michigan knew the whole RU play call before the snap I would think that's a MUCH bigger concern.

Yes RU and others should be regularly changing their signals to mitigate the issue, but UM should not be brazenly breaking the rules as well. And they wouldnt be doing it if it didnt work.

I think if other teams pick-up a Wimsatt lean then that's what good teams study and learn
Rutgers should be picking any lean themselves and fixing it.
RU isn't a HS team and coaches are making 100s of 1000s to know about such things.

How did PSU secondary coach promise his DBs they would make 4 INTs off Nova and then did it?
Good coaching

I recently wonderd if teams were seeing Giants make tells because one player on opposing team (that beat Giants) remarked how they watched a lot of film on Jones and thats why they won. He was kind of chuckling when he said it - sort of like they knew Giants were giving stuff away and should have fixed issues
 

yesrutgers01

Heisman
Nov 9, 2008
121,600
37,253
113
OK say KC knows that Miami's Tyreek Hill is going long. Good luck.

Football isn't baseball in that offenses give a dozen signs of what they are going to do depending on down, field position, personnel and past plays. Good defenders know what to read and aren't just chasing the ball.

Tempest/teapot thing
Well, LT made it clear that his style of play was to just chase the ball.

And if a team knew the play was going to be a deep pass to T Hill- you dial up something to give the QB no time and have a safety cheating over there.

What if a defense knows the play is off tackle to the right rather than a play action...A screen pass. I would guess you wouldn't see the entire DL about to crush the QB and the RB/WR/TE with 10 open yards in front of them...

Should I go on?
 

yesrutgers01

Heisman
Nov 9, 2008
121,600
37,253
113
I think if other teams pick-up a Wimsatt lean then that's what good teams study and learn
Rutgers should be picking any lean themselves and fixing it.
RU isn't a HS team and coaches are making 100s of 1000s to know about such things.

How did PSU secondary coach promise his DBs they would make 4 INTs off Nova and then did it?
Good coaching

I recently wonderd if teams were seeing Giants make tells because one player on opposing team (that beat Giants) remarked how they watched a lot of film on Jones and thats why they won. He was kind of chuckling when he said it - sort of like they knew Giants were giving stuff away and should have fixed issues
pretty much how Belichick made his living...
 

ashokan

Heisman
May 3, 2011
25,325
19,686
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And if a team knew the play was going to be a deep pass to T Hill- you dial up something to give the QB no time and have a safety cheating over there.

What if a defense knows the play is off tackle to the right rather than a play action...A screen pass. I would guess you wouldn't see the entire DL about to crush the QB and the RB/WR/TE with 10 open yards in front of them...

Should I go on?


If defense is going to swarm the QB on a long pass the QB probably sees that and maybe calls another play,
A QB can chuck a ball before Tyreek is in catch spot - he's so fast he runs under it and DB cant.
As a LB , knowing a run was coming at me wouldn't matter because center and guards show the play early (they are first LB keys).
If I know a pass is coming to me I still have to defend it - if another spot is chosen then that player has to defend it.
Baseball is one guy vs another guy and there are nanoseconds to make a call,
In football you and 10 others can see stuff coming.
Most teams benefit more from slipping on bad grass, blowing coverages etc than lifting calls imo
 
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UMRU

All-Conference
Sep 19, 2006
7,637
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It doesn’t matter why it’s not allowed. The point is that there’s obviously an advantage of traveling to your opponents games and using advanced electronics to learn their play signals. If everyone was allowed to do it, that would be a different story. But only Michigan had this advantage. I can’t see how they could be allowed to play in the CFP after this.
It will be interesting to hear the actual facts. What we know so for is:
1) the "vast network" consisted of 3 people
2) the "advanced technology" were cell phone videos
3) the people in the stand with the cell phones reportedly had no connection to UofM
4) Connor Stallions is a Navy vet who is an enormous Michigan fan who volunteered for the team for a long time before getting a paid position
5) it clearly looks like the NCAA rule was broken in some way - we just don't know what in what way
6) the reports are true - JH is furious is was suspended by the UofM for the cheeseburger incident. If UM does not support him this time, he might be out the door. Maybe to the NFL if the NFL actually wants him.
7) The likelihood that the NCAA completes this investigation and deals with appeals and considers this a type 1 violation that impacts UM this year is zero. If UM wins out, they will be in the CFP
8) it should be noted that all B1G teams must provide sideline video of all games to their opponents - therefore, the competitive advantage offered by this seems minimal.

Anyway, time will tell.
 

Eagleton95.99

All-American
Jul 25, 2001
7,511
6,428
113
OK say KC knows that Miami's Tyreek Hill is going long. Good luck.

Football isn't baseball in that offenses give a dozen signs of what they are going to do depending on down, field position, personnel and past plays. Good defenders know what to read and aren't just chasing the ball.

Tempest/teapot thing
So, knowing the D has a corner blitz called wouldn't be an advantage to an offense?
 

Bagarocks

Heisman
Jun 25, 2006
12,273
12,869
113
It doesn’t matter why it’s not allowed. The point is that there’s obviously an advantage of traveling to your opponents games and using advanced electronics to learn their play signals. If everyone was allowed to do it, that would be a different story. But only Michigan had this advantage. I can’t see how they could be allowed to play in the CFP after this.
cuz its the NCAA investigating.
 

ashokan

Heisman
May 3, 2011
25,325
19,686
0
So, knowing the D has a corner blitz called wouldn't be an advantage to an offense?
Not if #5 Mongo is blocking.
Players can see a corner blitz coming and might not pick it up even if they know its coming.
I think the only time a lifted call helps is on trick plays.
If a punter or kicker is going to run or pass instead of kicking and defense knows then that could help a lot
But it doesn't happen much.
Army took Michigan into OT and everybody knew what they would do without knowing calls
 

RUSK97

All-American
Dec 28, 2007
10,460
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if the NCAA and ACC didn't crucify UNC for fake classes, then there is a very realistic chance for UM to get away with it completely.
Entirely possible that the NCAA won't lower the boom, but doesn't mean Harbaugh survives. Rumor has it the auditing firm was hired in house...possibly by a UM superbooster who is at odds with Jimbo.
 
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MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
30,630
15,607
113
Entirely possible that the NCAA won't lower the boom, but doesn't mean Harbaugh survives. Rumor has it the auditing firm was hired in house...possibly by a UM superbooster who is at odds with Jimbo.
Let Michigan get to the NC game and the audit will not matter,
the cry will be Jimbo can do no wrong
Punishment is for the losers, win and you'll have support no matter just about anything you would have been fired for if your program wasn't very good
 

DJ Spanky

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
46,411
56,327
113
Entirely possible that the NCAA won't lower the boom, but doesn't mean Harbaugh survives. Rumor has it the auditing firm was hired in house...possibly by a UM superbooster who is at odds with Jimbo.

Given the recent results, if true, that superbooster may get some pushback from other fans.
 

yesrutgers01

Heisman
Nov 9, 2008
121,600
37,253
113
If defense is going to swarm the QB on a long pass the QB probably sees that and maybe calls another play,
A QB can chuck a ball before Tyreek is in catch spot - he's so fast he runs under it and DB cant.
As a LB , knowing a run was coming at me wouldn't matter because center and guards show the play early (they are first LB keys).
If I know a pass is coming to me I still have to defend it - if another spot is chosen then that player has to defend it.
Baseball is one guy vs another guy and there are nanoseconds to make a call,
In football you and 10 others can see stuff coming.
Most teams benefit more from slipping on bad grass, blowing coverages etc than lifting calls imo
Let me get this straight, you are saying that knowing the play before the ball is snapped- and in this case, well before the ball is snapped, is not going to help you?
 

krup

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
70,133
10,066
0
It will be interesting to hear the actual facts. What we know so for is:
1) the "vast network" consisted of 3 people
2) the "advanced technology" were cell phone videos
3) the people in the stand with the cell phones reportedly had no connection to UofM
4) Connor Stallions is a Navy vet who is an enormous Michigan fan who volunteered for the team for a long time before getting a paid position
5) it clearly looks like the NCAA rule was broken in some way - we just don't know what in what way
6) the reports are true - JH is furious is was suspended by the UofM for the cheeseburger incident. If UM does not support him this time, he might be out the door. Maybe to the NFL if the NFL actually wants him.
7) The likelihood that the NCAA completes this investigation and deals with appeals and considers this a type 1 violation that impacts UM this year is zero. If UM wins out, they will be in the CFP
8) it should be noted that all B1G teams must provide sideline video of all games to their opponents - therefore, the competitive advantage offered by this seems minimal.

Anyway, time will tell.
While I agree the NCAA won’t react quickly enough to resolve this before the end of the season, they ARE acting more quickly than normal on this investigation (they already had investigators at Michigan early this week).

I think people are missing one angle when it comes to punishment. The NCAA informed the B1G leadership early on about the investigation. Since this scandal impacts current competition, I can see the NCAA keeping the B1G apprised of the general feeling of what their investigators are finding, and collaborating on whether or not to disqualify Michigan from the conference championship game to both save the B1G embarrassment and keep Michigan from ending up in the playoff.
 
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RUTGERS95

Heisman
Sep 28, 2005
26,501
35,719
113
It will be interesting to hear the actual facts. What we know so for is:
1) the "vast network" consisted of 3 people-network has 3 or more people
2) the "advanced technology" were cell phone videos-any technology or are we now demanding supercomputers and nasa satellites for posterity
3) the people in the stand with the cell phones reportedly had no connection to UofM-that's been refuted as they were paid by a UM employee
4) Connor Stallions is a Navy vet who is an enormous Michigan fan who volunteered for the team for a long time before getting a paid position-zero bearing, more attempt to slander him by UM
5) it clearly looks like the NCAA rule was broken in some way - we just don't know what in what way-agree
6) the reports are true - JH is furious is was suspended by the UofM for the cheeseburger incident. If UM does not support him this time, he might be out the door. Maybe to the NFL if the NFL actually wants him.-well he better pack his bags as more and more outlets are giving this air time
7) The likelihood that the NCAA completes this investigation and deals with appeals and considers this a type 1 violation that impacts UM this year is zero. If UM wins out, they will be in the CFP-wouldn't say zero, wouldn't say 100% but they are moving faster for sure. of note, only a matter of time before the BIG has it's own investigation launched
8) it should be noted that all B1G teams must provide sideline video of all games to their opponents - therefore, the competitive advantage offered by this seems minimal.-that's not quite accurate and you know it

Anyway, time will tell.
no bias here lol
 

RU76

Senior
Jul 31, 2001
2,267
578
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OK say KC knows that Miami's Tyreek Hill is going long. Good luck.

Football isn't baseball in that offenses give a dozen signs of what they are going to do depending on down, field position, personnel and past plays. Good defenders know what to read and aren't just chasing the ball.

Tempest/teapot thing
A defense knowing on every play whether a run or pass has been called is HUGE. An offense knowing on every play whether, for example, a blitz is coming is HUGE. And the video showed Michigan changing its defense on the fly after OSU changed a play. The video showed multiple players signaling the new defense. IMO the players knew they were cheating. IMO JH lied when he claimed he had no knowledge. Cheating and lying go hand in hand. To excuse this is preposterous.
 

yesrutgers01

Heisman
Nov 9, 2008
121,600
37,253
113
A defense knowing on every play whether a run or pass has been called is HUGE. An offense knowing on every play whether, for example, a blitz is coming is HUGE. And the video showed Michigan changing its defense on the fly after OSU changed a play. The video showed multiple players signaling the new defense. IMO the players knew they were cheating. IMO JH lied when he claimed he had no knowledge. Cheating and lying go hand in hand. To excuse this is preposterous.
Hey- ash played football...he clearly stated that knowing the play before it is snapped offers no advantage.

His take on it is maybe the dumbest thing I ever heard. And before he mention's Deion's response to it- anyone that thinks Deion wasn't playing with these poor dumb folk asking the question- is an idiot.
Football is a sport of inches.
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

Heisman
Sep 11, 2006
123,974
19,585
0
If the NCAA wants to ban in-helmet comms because of "cost" then the Big Ten should be allowed to allow it for in conference games.

It's not banned for any competition reason. It's purely to accommodate the teams who don't receive as much in conference payouts.
It's a relatively fixed cost, right? what is it , maybe $20K per team? That's $2.6M to supply every D1 team with some standardized kit. Allow conferences to say "no thank you" to the NCAA kit to roll their own if they like, but the funding should come from, say, CFP TV revenue.. sacrifice some conference and team participant TV spot time.. allow networks to sell it to fund the kits.

Maybe you also have to supply a maintenance pool for upgrades/fixes.

It should be easy to do.. financially.
 
Dec 17, 2008
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Rumor is South Carolina who has a coach on staff who is worked and is apparently pretty close to Harbaugh. South Carolina pulled off two major upsets the last couple of years against Tennessee and Clemson.

I mean who knows if true but man if it is, LOL.
Wouldn’t surprise me because Shane Beamer was suggested to benefit as an assistant from that Wakey Leaks scandal with WF. It was a disgruntled announcer leaking their playbook. Some took the info but I think one coach said no that's not right.

From the article:

Wake Forest hired an investigative firm to dig into the leak. The firm uncovered oddities in Elrod’s computer habits. Like many team color commentators, he had access to Wake’s practice tape to prepare for that week’s game. But a source said investigators found that Elrod logged in at strange hours.

There were records of phone calls to opposing coaches: a 25-minute call with Galloway the Wednesday before the Louisville game; another with Shane Beamer, then an assistant at Virginia Tech, the night before Wake played the Hokies in 2014.

There were records of emails and faxes, according to sources, including a lengthy one to Jay Bateman, another former Wake coach who was then the defensive coordinator at Army. Elrod, according to a source, diagrammed Wake’s plays and sent them off to opposing coaches.




Another article:

The University of Georgia fined assistant coach Shane Beamer $25,000 for his role in the Wake Forest leaking scandal on Thursday. Beamer is a former assistant coach at Virginia Tech, which is one of the three schools to be publically identified for taking game planning information from former Wake Forest radio analyst Tommy Elrod.

Georgia’s fine of Beamer is an acknowledgement and admonishment from the school of his involvement in the leaking scandal.

 
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koleszar

Heisman
Jan 1, 2010
35,698
55,525
113
8) it should be noted that all B1G teams must provide sideline video of all games to their opponents - therefore, the competitive advantage offered by this seems minimal.
It's an all 22 video, not a shot of the sideline that teams must provide. For our stadium it's shot above the Legrand 52. You can't make out signals from that angle and distance. The video Michigan was recording was a straight shot from the visitors' side (good seats by the way so they could get a great shot) of their future opponents signaling in plays.
 
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It's an all 22 video, not a shot of the sideline that teams must provide. For our stadium it's shot above the Legrand 52. You can't make out signals from that angle and distance. The video Michigan was recording was a straight shot from the visitors' side (good seats by the way) of their future opponents signaling in plays.
Yes that’s what I’ve read, All 22 and tv copy are legal to use if you want but they’re not trained on the sidelines. Maybe shots here and there but not the whole game. I read some coaches even edit the tape before handing it over.
 
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Mufasa94

Senior
Jan 9, 2009
1,039
858
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It’s starting to sound like they had a pretty broad window covered. Who says they didn’t scout TCU?
I don’t get the others saying not expecting TCU in the CFP part. They were undefeated until they lost their CCG. The only possible time it was unexpected was after they were finished playing all their games.

Did
 

angmo

All-Conference
Jul 24, 2017
2,139
2,318
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Flood was decoding other signals a decade ago...

 

krup

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
70,133
10,066
0
I don’t get the others saying not expecting TCU in the CFP part. They were undefeated until they lost their CCG. The only possible time it was unexpected was after they were finished playing all their games.

Did
The B12 wasn’t getting a lot of playoff spots, and when they did it was Oklahoma.

A lot of things fell into place to get them in.
 

RuSnp

All-Conference
Jan 14, 2004
3,525
3,033
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Not if #5 Mongo is blocking.
Players can see a corner blitz coming and might not pick it up even if they know its coming.
I think the only time a lifted call helps is on trick plays.
If a punter or kicker is going to run or pass instead of kicking and defense knows then that could help a lot
But it doesn't happen much.
Army took Michigan into OT and everybody knew what they would do without knowing calls
I'll say it again. If this doesn't matter why disguise play calls at all? Why not have the qb line up, yell out we are throwing and 88 is my first read, 81 is my 2nd, and the tight end is chipping the end? This is madness. Throw the book at these entitled a*#&oles.
 
Jul 24, 2001
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I don’t get the others saying not expecting TCU in the CFP part. They were undefeated until they lost their CCG. The only possible time it was unexpected was after they were finished playing all their games.

Did

LOL according to some reporting, TCU was warned UM might be doing this and apparently changed their offensive signals but kept some old ones as dummies to trick UM.
 
Jul 24, 2001
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Not the best stretch here for UM football. This appears unrelated (or maybe related)............. FWIW one of the UM boards is saying this doesn't involve child pornography, rather something else.

 
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